Wallabies 2020 thread

[grievous]

Well, nobody saw that coming. The NZrs looked a bit flabergasted in the interviews; maybe they believed the press and went in overconfident.

Still, it showed up some serious problems that Rennie needs to sort out.

The first one is that Tupo is not functioning as a #3. That means his primary job is the set pieces. Our scrum was dished up today, with ref talking to him repeatedly. Our line out, on the rare occasion it was thrown straight, was also a mess - and that is the fault of all involved, including the lifters and blockers, not getting it right. His secondary job is to clear bodies away from the breakdown and protect the ball carrier, and retain possession. Our breakdown was poor as well. Not entirely his fault but he is part of the equation.

Swanning around with the skirt-wearers and pretending to be a #12 is not part of the job description. I think he needs to go back onto the reserves bench for a couple of years while he learns the dark arts, and for that matter finishes growing (at about age 26) before he can be considered as a cemented starting 3. His alternative is to go and play the lite code, and he may well do it - he can be a "backrower/centre" there. If he does not have the mental attitude required to focus on his primary positional role - and I really hope Brad Thorn can help him here - then maybe he should take the money.

Next, Dugunu is an excellent attacking winger - but some of his turnstyle tackling fails reminded me of a couple of wingers from a few years ago, who were in and out of the Wobblies for a while, until the penney dropped - their defence was shit and it wasn't getting any better. Did anyone else notice that the defensive pattern was always to have a backrower or someone standing up Dugunu's clacker to make sure of his tackles. You really want your 6 & 8 doing other stuff. It reminded me of the days of Quade Cooper being hidden in defence.

Simmons - would not get a look in if certain other people were fit/available, but at least that is a short-medium term problem.

FF needs to learn to throw the ball in properly. It is a necessary core skill, and if he can't do it, then that's tough - he's out of the squad. Get someone who can. You'd think he'd be embarrassed by his shit throwing.

Rennie needs to cut off Nick White's right foot.

Last thing for now, our guys playing speed while in possession was slower than the ABs; on the turnover the tempo seemed to accelerate and look dangerous, not ponderous like Eddie Jones'/Chubby's Randwick '2 pod' system. Quite how Rennie addresses that, we shall see. I wish him luck as it requires a bit of a sea change in thinking from the top down, put if you have 4 guys playing 6 or 7 at each breakdown, you should not be surprised to be turned over. Also please see my comments above about Tupo standing wide with the 5/8.

Drunk as usual, Sluggy?

[grievous]

Wasn’t he getting the Wob scrum for early engage? Seems like this might be caused from unfamiliarity with that particular ref.

They know Gardner next week - I think we will have at least parity at scrum time.

Put Uelese between TT and Slipper and I think we will stuff them.

Uelese did improve the scum, a bit. But the ref was also talking, albeit it was hard to hear, about some sort of lateral movement after the engage. Tupou could be the at the beginning of a long and successful career, but he's got a bit to learn. Can we get Mario Ledesma back?

Mario? Nah. Reds scrum has Lillicrap - he doubles as a physio so is a bargain.

Uelese and Tupou might work well; however big height difference. I’d give BPA a run with Slipper and Tupou and leave Uelese with the Bumbies’ lads.

Uelese is the best hooker in Australia bar none.

Throwing still lets him down. Best thrower this season has been Tom Horton but hes nowhere a start. Throwing is a problem. I dont reckon FF is fit enough for this level hes carrying too much loose fat for a modern day hooker. So hes puffing too hard on his throw and it goes to the half back.

[Farva]

FF couldn’t throw for shit. Neither can BPA. Uelese struggles too but he is better around the ground and better in the scrum than the other two.

[Olo]

FF couldn’t throw for shit. Neither can BPA. Uelese struggles too but he is better around the ground and better in the scrum than the other two.

Most of the time its fine. Tell him he’s got 4 tests starting and to make the position his own

[towny]

FF couldn’t throw for shit. Neither can BPA. Uelese struggles too but he is better around the ground and better in the scrum than the other two.

Most of the time its fine. Tell him he’s got 4 tests starting and to make the position his own

He’s not good enough to deserve 4 tests. Uelese is. He’s the one.

[towny]

FF couldn’t throw for shit. Neither can BPA. Uelese struggles too but he is better around the ground and better in the scrum than the other two.

BPA plays like a 6. Huge engine and fantastic support player. Uelese is my favourite, but no way is he better around the park than BPA.

[Olo]

FF couldn’t throw for shit. Neither can BPA. Uelese struggles too but he is better around the ground and better in the scrum than the other two.

Most of the time its fine. Tell him he’s got 4 tests starting and to make the position his own

He’s not good enough to deserve 4 tests. Uelese is. He’s the one.

That’s who I mean.

[Mog The Almighty]

FF couldn’t throw for shit. Neither can BPA. Uelese struggles too but he is better around the ground and better in the scrum than the other two.

FF is by far and away the straightest throwing hooker in Australia. However, he had a shocker today.

I didn't mention it in my whinge thread by the ABs got away with several crooked throws, but yes, our lineout was sub-par again. That was our biggest problem in the game without a doubt.

[towny]

FF couldn’t throw for shit. Neither can BPA. Uelese struggles too but he is better around the ground and better in the scrum than the other two.

FF is by far and away the straightest throwing hooker in Australia. However, he had a shocker today.

I didn't mention it in my whinge thread by the ABs got away with several crooked throws, but yes, our lineout was sub-par again. That was our biggest problem in the game without a doubt.

He’s not performed in any of the tests he’s played. There are better options.

[towny]

FF couldn’t throw for shit. Neither can BPA. Uelese struggles too but he is better around the ground and better in the scrum than the other two.

Most of the time its fine. Tell him he’s got 4 tests starting and to make the position his own

He’s not good enough to deserve 4 tests. Uelese is. He’s the one.

That’s who I mean.

[The Optimist]

Wilson was massive, what a talent for a 20 y.o.

Thought Toomua kicked a little too often and most of the kicks just handed over possession.

Game was played in great spirits by both teams.

Thought the handling in the wet was outstanding, Wobs normally brick it when it rains, so it was a pleasant surprise.

The Wobs line-speed and intensity was a great improvement and it shows that the ABs don't like it up them.

Rennie's comment that the Wobs scrum was good, was perplexing as to my mind the ABs were dominant.

Caleb Clark is a handful broke every first up tackle.

Great first up test, but the problem against the ABs is stringing 2 good tests together. There is always an AB backlash after a mediocre performance and my guess is the Wobs would be the happier of the sides.

[Mog The Almighty]

For my 2c:

Slipper had a whale of a game in my opinion. I eat my words. I hoped he would prove me wrong saying that was a dodgy selection and he did.

Tupou was excellent while he was on, I suspect he was taken off early with a minor injury to the thigh.

Falou Fainga'a failed to impress. A fumbly, messy performance. Hooker seems to be a big problem for us, I think it was right to select him as he's the most consistent, straightest thrower and least prone to bad mistakes, but he bricked it tonight.

Matt Phillip was huge. LSL was also very good. For a team with a lack of depth in the second row, they smashed it. Simmons was typical Simmons. In other words, kind of average.

Wilson was huge. Period.

Hooper was good, Samu had a few moments but was underwhelming.

Nic White played well, his kicking was good, so was his passing. Gordon came on and we lost nothing.

JOC was excellent, Toomua was also very good, some great defence by him, but a few nothing kicks. One grubber when we had them on the back foot close to their line stood out as a bit of brain snap.

Paisami was very good. Deserves another shot.

Both wingers were excellent, Banks was solid without being outstanding.

The biggest problem for the Wallabies was their line-out. That was a killer for us.

[towny]

For my 2c:

Slipper had a whale of a game in my opinion. I eat my words. I hoped he would prove me wrong saying that was a dodgy selection and he did.

Tupou was excellent while he was on, I suspect he was taken off early with a minor injury to the thigh.

Falou Fainga'a failed to impress. A fumbly, messy performance. Hooker seems to be a big problem for us, I think it was right to select him as he's the most consistent, straightest thrower and least prone to bad mistakes, but he bricked it tonight.

Matt Phillip was huge. LSL was also very good. For a team with a lack of depth in the second row, they smashed it. Simmons was typical Simmons. In other words, kind of average.

Wilson was huge. Period.

Hooper was good, Samu had a few moments but was underwhelming.

Nic White played well, his kicking was good, so was his passing. Gordon came on and we lost nothing.

JOC was excellent, Toomua was also very good, some great defence by him, but a few nothing kicks. One grubber when we had them on the back foot close to their line stood out as a bit of brain snap.

Paisami was very good. Deserves another shot.

Both wingers were excellent, Banks was solid without being outstanding.

The biggest problem for the Wallabies was their line-out. That was a killer for us.

Agree with a lot of that so will just state where I disagree.

- thought Samu did a lot of work. Tackled everyone and was good at the ruck.
- Gordon came on and we lost plenty. Didn’t pass to the dude ready to kick the DG, dropped a sitter when were on a roll at the end. White stays on I reckon we win.
- I thought Banks was very good! White’s outstanding kicking had the ABs back three looking like white Kurtley Beales while Banks was perfect in the same conditions. He ran great lines too, and almost cut through a few times. One bad kick in an otherwise good kicking display. He played well above my expectations.

[towny]

btw, don’t hear much whinging about box kicking today. White brought a NH game and starred in awful conditions. The chase from the Wallabies was far better than I’ve seen. We are measurably fitter this year.

Lastly, the physicality of SR AU was laughed at by plenty of kiwis this year. Apparently SRA was like a test match every week.... this was a laughable assertion that was promoted as fact by people that should have known better. it was good footy but it didn’t look like test rugby. I thought the Wobs had the edge in physicality in this game. Maybe our 5 teams won’t get thrashed too much next year if we have a TT. Australia has a lot of kids coming through that look the goods - I think they will win back a lot of lost respect for Oz rugby. But first, let’s see how mentally tough this group are next week.

[Mog The Almighty]

For my 2c:

Slipper had a whale of a game in my opinion. I eat my words. I hoped he would prove me wrong saying that was a dodgy selection and he did.

Tupou was excellent while he was on, I suspect he was taken off early with a minor injury to the thigh.

Falou Fainga'a failed to impress. A fumbly, messy performance. Hooker seems to be a big problem for us, I think it was right to select him as he's the most consistent, straightest thrower and least prone to bad mistakes, but he bricked it tonight.

Matt Phillip was huge. LSL was also very good. For a team with a lack of depth in the second row, they smashed it. Simmons was typical Simmons. In other words, kind of average.

Wilson was huge. Period.

Hooper was good, Samu had a few moments but was underwhelming.

Nic White played well, his kicking was good, so was his passing. Gordon came on and we lost nothing.

JOC was excellent, Toomua was also very good, some great defence by him, but a few nothing kicks. One grubber when we had them on the back foot close to their line stood out as a bit of brain snap.

Paisami was very good. Deserves another shot.

Both wingers were excellent, Banks was solid without being outstanding.

The biggest problem for the Wallabies was their line-out. That was a killer for us.

Agree with a lot of that so will just state where I disagree.

- thought Samu did a lot of work. Tackled everyone and was good at the ruck.
- Gordon came on and we lost plenty. Didn’t pass to the dude ready to kick the DG, dropped a sitter when were on a roll at the end. White stays on I reckon we win.
- I thought Banks was very good! White’s outstanding kicking had the ABs back three looking like white Kurtley Beales while Banks was perfect in the same conditions. He ran great lines too, and almost cut through a few times. One bad kick in an otherwise good kicking display. He played well above my expectations.

I was kind of hyped up and biting my nails during the game. I'll give it a second watch, you probably make good points.

In any case, that was waaaaaay better than I expected. I mean, I dared to hope, but that was bloody fantastic and we should have won by all right. Against NZ in Wellington. That's a huge first outing.

Now we have another interesting question that is going to be answered. Was it a fluke? The Wallabies annual one-good match before they go back to being wobblies? Or was the herald of a new dawn? I hate to get my hopes up, but I suspect it's the second thing. And I do NOT think the All Blacks looked rusty. They looked f-cking amazing, as usual. Sustaining waves after waves of their opponent attacking their line, only to turn it over and be back down the other end of the field in 5 seconds. Typical All Blacks, it was not a weak or rusty AB team by any stretch.

Just listening to the post match interviews now.

[towny]

For my 2c:

Slipper had a whale of a game in my opinion. I eat my words. I hoped he would prove me wrong saying that was a dodgy selection and he did.

Tupou was excellent while he was on, I suspect he was taken off early with a minor injury to the thigh.

Falou Fainga'a failed to impress. A fumbly, messy performance. Hooker seems to be a big problem for us, I think it was right to select him as he's the most consistent, straightest thrower and least prone to bad mistakes, but he bricked it tonight.

Matt Phillip was huge. LSL was also very good. For a team with a lack of depth in the second row, they smashed it. Simmons was typical Simmons. In other words, kind of average.

Wilson was huge. Period.

Hooper was good, Samu had a few moments but was underwhelming.

Nic White played well, his kicking was good, so was his passing. Gordon came on and we lost nothing.

JOC was excellent, Toomua was also very good, some great defence by him, but a few nothing kicks. One grubber when we had them on the back foot close to their line stood out as a bit of brain snap.

Paisami was very good. Deserves another shot.

Both wingers were excellent, Banks was solid without being outstanding.

The biggest problem for the Wallabies was their line-out. That was a killer for us.

Agree with a lot of that so will just state where I disagree.

- thought Samu did a lot of work. Tackled everyone and was good at the ruck.
- Gordon came on and we lost plenty. Didn’t pass to the dude ready to kick the DG, dropped a sitter when were on a roll at the end. White stays on I reckon we win.
- I thought Banks was very good! White’s outstanding kicking had the ABs back three looking like white Kurtley Beales while Banks was perfect in the same conditions. He ran great lines too, and almost cut through a few times. One bad kick in an otherwise good kicking display. He played well above my expectations.

I was kind of hyped up and biting my nails during the game. I'll give it a second watch, you probably make good points.

In any case, that was waaaaaay better than I expected. I mean, I dared to hope, but that was bloody fantastic and we should have won by all right. Against NZ in Wellington. That's a huge first outing.

Now we have another interesting question that is going to be answered. Was it a fluke? The Wallabies annual one-good match before they go back to being wobblies? Or was the herald of a new dawn? I hate to get my hopes up, but I suspect it's the second thing. And I do NOT think the All Blacks looked rusty. They looked f-cking amazing, as usual. Sustaining waves after waves of their opponent attacking their line, only to turn it over and be back down the other end of the field in 5 seconds. Typical All Blacks, it was not a weak or rusty AB team by any stretch.

Just listening to the post match interviews now.

+1

I think this dawn is the real deal, but I’m nervous.....

[Olo]

FF couldn’t throw for shit. Neither can BPA. Uelese struggles too but he is better around the ground and better in the scrum than the other two.

FF is by far and away the straightest throwing hooker in Australia. However, he had a shocker today.

I didn't mention it in my whinge thread by the ABs got away with several crooked throws, but yes, our lineout was sub-par again. That was our biggest problem in the game without a doubt.

He’s not performed in any of the tests he’s played. There are better options.

He struggled with the pace again

[Olo]

The ABs defence, particularly out wide, was top notch. We had no room yet both Dangunu and KK made ground when given half an opportunity. KK is a try beast and you knew when he received the pill from JOC it was try time. They both are try beasts! And kick chasers.
The pleasing aspect about Banks game was that he was solid in all the areas where he has been suspect in the past. Under the high ball, positioning and making yards in traffic he was great. We know he has jet shoes too and will add another element to our attack with some space.
Throw Petaia into the mix and we have some heavy duty fire power from 11/13-15. Paisami was great and showed he belonged. Once again, with a little looser defence his half breaks would have become a lot more. However he should be pushed to the bench for Petaia and be given time in the second half next week. Love to see him at some point at 12. White, JOC and Toomua were fantastic.
IKA has gone over the forwards. Wilson will be something else in a year or two and we have some impressive young tight 5 players coming through the Soup ranks as well as the likes of Wright and McReight to add to the back row.
I don’t think Folaus throwing is much better than Ueleses at all. In fact certain stats show that the Rebs line out was the most efficient in SRAU. Uelese is faster , stronger and reads the game better. He is also much better at scrum time and has never struggled at test level. I’m all for giving FF a start again next week but if he’s struggling then JU should come in much earlier. Hosea should also be given a shot from the bench.
Next week is a huge test to see if these blokes are the real deal. Coaching and playing group.

[Zakar]

Phillip, LSL immense.

Hopper phenomenal effort. Wilson extremely good. Samu was quieter but got through a lot of work.

White, JOC justified their selections. Toomua kicked a lot, but that must have been part of the gameplan.

Paisami was good, but I'd still pick a healthy JP.

[towny]

Petaia would like a chance to test himself against Riko Ioane.....

[Zakar]

Petaia would like a chance to test himself against Riko Ioane.....

He'd eat him for brunch.

[Thomas]

A healthy Petaia gets in over Paisami for sure.

The ABs had no gameplan. They looked lost out there in the second half like they did against England in the RWC. Aimless passing to guys just about to get smashed. Mo'unga looked like a punch drunk puppy. It appeared their only tactic was to feed off errors.

Cut those out, like England did, and you'll beat them.

Lineout was a shambles but the scrum was solid. The ref had no idea about the scrum.

[shanky]

FF couldn’t throw for shit. Neither can BPA. Uelese struggles too but he is better around the ground and better in the scrum than the other two.

BPA plays like a 6. Huge engine and fantastic support player. Uelese is my favourite, but no way is he better around the park than BPA.

It'll come as no surprise to you then, to know that BPA was always an openside

He was NSW Schools, playing 7

[Bindi]

Couldn't be f**ked re-watching the match, but I could have been wrong about Slipper.

Given all the rookies went well, might as well fudge Simmons off and give Hosea a chance on the bench. The youngsters don't seem to be overawed.

[Zakar]

FF couldn’t throw for shit. Neither can BPA. Uelese struggles too but he is better around the ground and better in the scrum than the other two.

BPA plays like a 6. Huge engine and fantastic support player. Uelese is my favourite, but no way is he better around the park than BPA.

It'll come as no surprise to you then, to know that BPA was always an openside

He was NSW Schools, playing 7

Endeavour High School too. We should do much more targeting the sports high schools.

[grievous]

Couldn't be f**ked re-watching the match, but I could have been wrong about Slipper.

Given all the rookies went well, might as well fudge Simmons off and give Hosea a chance on the bench. The youngsters don't seem to be overawed.

He gave away a classic Simmons penalty in front of posts yesterday that should be enough to say thanks and goodbye.
What’s the go with overseas players? Several options there.

[shanky]

FF couldn’t throw for shit. Neither can BPA. Uelese struggles too but he is better around the ground and better in the scrum than the other two.

BPA plays like a 6. Huge engine and fantastic support player. Uelese is my favourite, but no way is he better around the park than BPA.

It'll come as no surprise to you then, to know that BPA was always an openside

He was NSW Schools, playing 7

Endeavour High School too. We should do much more targeting the sports high schools.

What are you? A GPS scout?

[Zakar]

Mate I'm a proud CHS rep


(Shadow squad, not required for any matches, found wanting)

[shanky]

Mate I'm a proud CHS rep


(Shadow squad, not required for any matches, found wanting)

[wamberal]

Great first up test, but the problem against the ABs is stringing 2 good tests together. There is always an AB backlash after a mediocre performance and my guess is the Wobs would be the happier of the sides.

"Always" is a long time, and times (and circumstances) can change. Our boys would have a lot of self-belief after that performance. The Darkness coaching situation might just be a factor. On the other hand, Rennie looks like the bees' knees.

[towny]

Rennie getting the acolafes but he’s got with him Matt Taylor and Scott Wisemantle - it’s a ridiculously strong coaching team.

Poor old Cheika had a couple of his poker mates helping him out.

[Ellafan]

FF couldn’t throw for shit. Neither can BPA. Uelese struggles too but he is better around the ground and better in the scrum than the other two.

BPA plays like a 6. Huge engine and fantastic support player. Uelese is my favourite, but no way is he better around the park than BPA.

It'll come as no surprise to you then, to know that BPA was always an openside

He was NSW Schools, playing 7

Doesn't surprise me that a chunky a bloke who played backrow at junior level has switched to #2 so as to advance his professional career.

[Mog The Almighty]

Well ... it's time to start discussing selections for next week? I'm a big believer in team continuity, so I'd like to see any changes kept absolutely minimal. Even Fainga'a, who didn't play well, I'd like to see him get another chance. I don't want to see anyone dropped unless the underperform for multiple games in a row. None of this Cheika-esque shit trying a new experiment every week thankyou.

The one single change I wouldn't be too worried about is if Hosea or Hanigan came onto the bench for Simmons. Simmons has been a Wallaby stalwart, but he's never really been great in my opinion. I mean, relative to Wallaby test level. I'm sure he's a superhuman rugby player compared to nearly everyone else on planet earth, but at the elite of the elite level ... meh. And that penalty with the referee screaming in his ear to leave it ...

[kiap]

Hosea is a future 2nd row option.

But Hanigan is a backrower. Not a lock, even at Super level.

Simmons > Hanigan.

[Mog The Almighty]

Hosea is a future 2nd row option.

But Hanigan is a backrower. Not a lock, even at Super level.

Simmons > Hanigan.

Actually, he is a lock at super rugby level.

[kiap]

Hosea is a future 2nd row option.

But Hanigan is a backrower. Not a lock, even at Super level.

Simmons > Hanigan.

Actually, he is a lock at super rugby level.

He's not a lock's arsehole, m8.

[Mog The Almighty]

Hosea is a future 2nd row option.

But Hanigan is a backrower. Not a lock, even at Super level.

Simmons > Hanigan.

Actually, he is a lock at super rugby level.

He's not a lock's arsehole, m8.

Well, that's, like, your opinion, man.

Plenty of elite level selectors and coaches seem to disagree.

There's a trade off. Obviously Hosea is more a pure lock but Hanigan brings some versatility. I'd be happy with either of them. If it were like-for-like, I guess you'd go with Hosea. Hanigan would be more a replacement for LSL, but that's not going to happen if he keeps playing like he did on the weekend. Great performance from him and certainly shut me up as a critic of his.

[Ellafan]

Hosea is a future 2nd row option.

But Hanigan is a backrower. Not a lock, even at Super level.

Simmons > Hanigan.

Actually, he is a lock at super rugby level.

He's not a lock's arsehole, m8.

Simmons thing is calling the line out.

It's failure may be his exit.

[kiap]

Simmons thing is calling the line out.

It's failure may be his exit.

He will be gone soon enough. With our best locks available, Simmo is no longer there ... but that's not this year.

Unlike Hanigan, Simmons is an actual set-piece lock. One of the best scrum-wise and - like you say - lineout. A lineout thrower would be handy.

BTW, if it wasn’t for Simmons the Wallabies would have lost on Sunday. His conceded three points kept us in the game with a chance still to win.

BTW (ii) ... the Waratahs are screwed in the second row so far for next season. Wykes is a top bloke but is out on his feet and end-of-career now (wouldn't make the Force squad). Hanigan is there because there is no locking depth.

[Mog The Almighty]

Simmons thing is calling the line out.

It's failure may be his exit.

He will be gone soon enough. With our best locks available, Simmo is no longer there ... but that's not this year.

Unlike Hanigan, Simmons is an actual set-piece lock. One of the best scrum-wise and - like you say - lineout. A lineout thrower would be handy.

BTW, if it wasn’t for Simmons the Wallabies would have lost on Sunday. His conceded three points kept us in the game with a chance still to win.

BTW (ii) ... the Waratahs are screwed in the second row so far for next season. Wykes is a top bloke but is out on his feet and end-of-career now (wouldn't make the Force squad). Hanigan is there because there is no locking depth.

And yet he still got selected in the Wallaby squad.