Official South African Doping Thread (combined)

All things Rugby
User avatar
slick
Posts: 8257
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Official South African Doping Thread (combined)

Post by slick »

Interesting and disturbing read on the BBC website today:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50785122
Flick to page 40 of the South African Institute of Drug-Free Sport's (Saids) latest annual report and 'Name redacted (minor)' appears six times in the annual list of doping offenders.

All were teenage rugby players who tested positive for steroids at the 2018 edition of Craven Week. It was no blip. The event has turned into one of the most reliable hunting grounds for anti-doping officers.
A survey of more than 12,000 boys in 23 rugby-playing schools in South Africa's KwaZulu-Natal province in 2014 revealed that almost a tenth of 18-year-old boys had tried steroids.
User avatar
handyman
Posts: 14166
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SA Doping

Post by handyman »

slick wrote:Interesting and disturbing read on the BBC website today:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50785122
Flick to page 40 of the South African Institute of Drug-Free Sport's (Saids) latest annual report and 'Name redacted (minor)' appears six times in the annual list of doping offenders.

All were teenage rugby players who tested positive for steroids at the 2018 edition of Craven Week. It was no blip. The event has turned into one of the most reliable hunting grounds for anti-doping officers.
A survey of more than 12,000 boys in 23 rugby-playing schools in South Africa's KwaZulu-Natal province in 2014 revealed that almost a tenth of 18-year-old boys had tried steroids.
Most of them don't make it as players and become referees.
backrow
Posts: 22415
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SA Doping

Post by backrow »

I wonder why they felt the need to juice up, SA types are pretty chunky already with their Beef-heavy diet
User avatar
assfly
Posts: 10312
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Kenya

Re: SA Doping

Post by assfly »

backrow wrote:I wonder why they felt the need to juice up, SA types are pretty chunky already with their Beef-heavy diet
The competition at school level is unbelievable.

I remember trying to convince my parents at 16 to let me take creatine to get bigger. Thankfully they declined, but some of the other kids I played against looked like they were in their 30s.
User avatar
Average Joe
Posts: 5593
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:48 pm

Re: SA Doping

Post by Average Joe »

I'm glad to see that we have such stringent regulations. When your anti doping agency is "catching" dopers at an early stage you know you're on the right track.
backrow
Posts: 22415
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SA Doping

Post by backrow »

assfly wrote:
backrow wrote:I wonder why they felt the need to juice up, SA types are pretty chunky already with their Beef-heavy diet
The competition at school level is unbelievable.

I remember trying to convince my parents at 16 to let me take creatine to get bigger. Thankfully they declined, but some of the other kids I played against looked like they were in their 30s.
not all would be on the juice though - some big farm boys lugging animals around all day and eating kilos of biltong, would be pretty big and strong already. There's always a few kids who are 'advanced' shall we say with full beards and chest rugs, whilst you are nursing warbly voiceboxes and zits.
User avatar
Lemoentjie
Posts: 3013
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:42 pm

Re: SA Doping

Post by Lemoentjie »

All because of the view (which sadly is probably true) that you have to do a good Craven Week to make it as a pro... so much pressure on those young lads to perform. But as the article say, this generally stops after schoolboy rugby.
User avatar
slick
Posts: 8257
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SA Doping

Post by slick »

Lemoentjie wrote:All because of the view (which sadly is probably true) that you have to do a good Craven Week to make it as a pro... so much pressure on those young lads to perform. But as the article say, this generally stops after schoolboy rugby.
I'm absolutely sure it is not just in SA, but Craven Week seems to distill it all down and ramps up the pressure.
User avatar
DragsterDriver
Posts: 25004
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Big Willi Style

Re: SA Doping

Post by DragsterDriver »

It’s no different over here.
User avatar
slick
Posts: 8257
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SA Doping

Post by slick »

As an aside, perhaps the mod that banned be for this:
Well done SA.

Can’t shake the feeling that our sport is going to be rocked by years of SA PED’s abuse being uncovered. But there we are
during semi finals week of the WC, after 20+ years of no ban and no warning, might like to get on his knees and make a public apology. The twat.
backrow
Posts: 22415
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SA Doping

Post by backrow »

slick wrote:As an aside, perhaps the mod that banned be for this:
Well done SA.

Can’t shake the feeling that our sport is going to be rocked by years of SA PED’s abuse being uncovered. But there we are
during semi finals week of the WC, after 20+ years of no ban and no warning, might like to get on his knees and make a public apology. The twat.
who banned you ?
:lol:

weak banning to say the least, didn't even have racism or powertools or tubgirl !
User avatar
slick
Posts: 8257
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SA Doping

Post by slick »

backrow wrote:
slick wrote:As an aside, perhaps the mod that banned be for this:
Well done SA.

Can’t shake the feeling that our sport is going to be rocked by years of SA PED’s abuse being uncovered. But there we are
during semi finals week of the WC, after 20+ years of no ban and no warning, might like to get on his knees and make a public apology. The twat.
who banned you ?
:lol:

weak banning to say the least, didn't even have racism or powertools or tubgirl !
Dunno. Particulalrly shit banning considering there are entire threads on this before and after. The twat.
backrow
Posts: 22415
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SA Doping

Post by backrow »

slick wrote:
backrow wrote:
slick wrote:As an aside, perhaps the mod that banned be for this:
Well done SA.

Can’t shake the feeling that our sport is going to be rocked by years of SA PED’s abuse being uncovered. But there we are
during semi finals week of the WC, after 20+ years of no ban and no warning, might like to get on his knees and make a public apology. The twat.
who banned you ?
:lol:

weak banning to say the least, didn't even have racism or powertools or tubgirl !
Dunno. Particulalrly shit banning considering there are entire threads on this before and after. The twat.
good thing you didn't mention all their 95 winners rolling a double-six at unexpectedly young age then :thumbup:
User avatar
Jensrsa
Posts: 24864
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SA Doping

Post by Jensrsa »

From the article
The majority of UK teenage players are educated, rather than tested.

Daniel Spencer-Tonks, a former England Under-16 rugby union player banned for four years for steroid use in 2015 at the age of 20, warned that doping was "hugely widespread through all levels of rugby".

In the wake of Sam Chalmers testing positive for two anabolic steroids while on a Scotland under-20s training camp in 2013, a 19-year-old Scottish National League player told the BBC that illegal drug use was rife north of the border as well.
User avatar
Torquemada 1420
Posts: 29067
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Hut 8

Re: SA Doping

Post by Torquemada 1420 »

handyman wrote:Most of them don't make it as players and become referees.
:lol:
User avatar
Torquemada 1420
Posts: 29067
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Hut 8

Re: SA Doping

Post by Torquemada 1420 »

slick wrote:Dunno. Particulalrly shit banning considering there are entire threads on this before and after. The twat.
PR mods in "tw*t behaviour" shocker. :roll:
User avatar
Insane_Homer
Posts: 12145
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Leafy Surrey, UK

Re: SA Doping

Post by Insane_Homer »

Well done SA. Glad to see rigorous testing in place resulting in these cheats being exposed. :thumbup:
Nolanator
Posts: 38840
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Dublin

Re: SA Doping

Post by Nolanator »

assfly wrote:
backrow wrote:I wonder why they felt the need to juice up, SA types are pretty chunky already with their Beef-heavy diet
The competition at school level is unbelievable.

I remember trying to convince my parents at 16 to let me take creatine to get bigger. Thankfully they declined, but some of the other kids I played against looked like they were in their 30s.
And what has creatine got to do with steroids?
User avatar
assfly
Posts: 10312
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Kenya

Re: SA Doping

Post by assfly »

Nolanator wrote:And what has creatine got to do with steroids?
It was part of a big movement in schools at the time to get bigger, stronger and faster. I'm sure some of my mates went on to stronger stuff like steroids.
backrow
Posts: 22415
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SA Doping

Post by backrow »

assfly wrote:
Nolanator wrote:And what has creatine got to do with steroids?
It was part of a big movement in schools at the time to get bigger, stronger and faster. I'm sure some of my mates went on to stronger stuff like steroids.
this
doubt anyone who did steroids hadn't already tried a few rounds of creatine. its like drug addicts who don't smoke, just doesn't happen. I've personally heard Nolanator's roid rage on many occasion, usually when he has been beaten by some blind kiwi Gamer and driven his vehicle off a cliff.
Last edited by backrow on Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Average Joe
Posts: 5593
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:48 pm

Re: SA Doping

Post by Average Joe »

Creatine is completely organic. You have creatine in your muscle cells at this very moment. Everyone does.
Nolanator
Posts: 38840
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Dublin

Re: SA Doping

Post by Nolanator »

So it's creatine is the gateway to steroids argument?

Don't buy that. That's like saying that multivitamin tablets are a gateway to oral dianabol. They are light years apart.
User avatar
assfly
Posts: 10312
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Kenya

Re: SA Doping

Post by assfly »

Average Joe wrote:Creatine is completely organic. You have creatine in your muscle cells at this very moment. Everyone does.
That's my understanding of it. But taking large quantities of it and doing a lot of heavy lifting is going to change your body in a big way. It did with me.
Nolanator
Posts: 38840
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Dublin

Re: SA Doping

Post by Nolanator »

assfly wrote:
Average Joe wrote:Creatine is completely organic. You have creatine in your muscle cells at this very moment. Everyone does.
That's my understanding of it. But taking large quantities of it and doing a lot of heavy lifting is going to change your body in a big way. It did with me.
The lifting the heavy weights and eating well has a significantly larger impact on you body than the creatine supplementation. It help, absolutely, but it didn't make you big. Your discipline etc made you big, with the creatine increasing the magnitude of those gainz a little bit.

It will do absolutely nothing for you without sufficient training stimulus and nutrition.
backrow
Posts: 22415
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SA Doping

Post by backrow »

assfly wrote:
Average Joe wrote:Creatine is completely organic. You have creatine in your muscle cells at this very moment. Everyone does.
That's my understanding of it. But taking large quantities of it and doing a lot of heavy lifting is going to change your body in a big way. It did with me.
you say that, but first time I did creatine for 10 weeks, it made negligible difference to my body shape, although I did get stronger and was still growing heightwise (I was about 17)

the second round I did a tub of it I was around 19-20, and put on about 5kg without really gaining strength. Both times I was eating relatively well and hitting the gym a bit & Kickboxing.
User avatar
Average Joe
Posts: 5593
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:48 pm

Re: SA Doping

Post by Average Joe »

assfly wrote:
Average Joe wrote:Creatine is completely organic. You have creatine in your muscle cells at this very moment. Everyone does.
That's my understanding of it. But taking large quantities of it and doing a lot of heavy lifting is going to change your body in a big way. It did with me.
It's like taking vitamin c to strengthen your immune system.
User avatar
Insane_Homer
Posts: 12145
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Leafy Surrey, UK

Re: SA Doping

Post by Insane_Homer »

Average Joe wrote:Creatine is completely organic. You have creatine in your muscle cells at this very moment. Everyone does.
and how is that different from testosterone?
User avatar
assfly
Posts: 10312
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Kenya

Re: SA Doping

Post by assfly »

Nolanator wrote:The lifting the heavy weights and eating well has a significantly larger impact on you body than the creatine supplementation. It help, absolutely, but it didn't make you big. Your discipline etc made you big, with the creatine increasing the magnitude of those gainz a little bit.

It will do absolutely nothing for you without sufficient training stimulus and nutrition.
Mate, it completely changed my body. I was playing rugby and gyming anyway, but suddenly my muscles just got bigger and stronger. My chest and legs grew exponentially, and I remember thinking at the time how powerful that stuff must have been. One of my roommates decided to take it with me but to not exercise, and he grew into quite a lump.
Nolanator
Posts: 38840
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Dublin

Re: SA Doping

Post by Nolanator »

assfly wrote:
Nolanator wrote:The lifting the heavy weights and eating well has a significantly larger impact on you body than the creatine supplementation. It help, absolutely, but it didn't make you big. Your discipline etc made you big, with the creatine increasing the magnitude of those gainz a little bit.

It will do absolutely nothing for you without sufficient training stimulus and nutrition.
Mate, it completely changed my body. I was playing rugby and gyming anyway, but suddenly my muscles just got bigger and stronger. My chest and legs grew exponentially, and I remember thinking at the time how powerful that stuff must have been. One of my roommates decided to take it with me but to not exercise, and he grew into quite a lump.
You're full of shit, misremembering, or weren't taking creatine.
It's not a magic substance that transforms your body. It's a performance enhancing supplement, absolutely, but it simply does not cause the results that you described.
User avatar
assfly
Posts: 10312
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Kenya

Re: SA Doping

Post by assfly »

:lol: ok
backrow
Posts: 22415
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SA Doping

Post by backrow »

I think creatine can certain aid body shape transformation, but its small effect compared to:
age at that time
diet
booze
any mental effect of 'i'm taking Creatine so will hit the gym daily instead of twice a week' type thing
what other sport you are playing at the time.

as I said, I gave it 2 goes, one without much body effect, and one with - but as much as try to remember and say I was doing the same things, I probably wasn't. That plus the few extra years & mentabolism difference could have made all the difference.
User avatar
Average Joe
Posts: 5593
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:48 pm

Re: SA Doping

Post by Average Joe »

Insane_Homer wrote:
Average Joe wrote:Creatine is completely organic. You have creatine in your muscle cells at this very moment. Everyone does.
and how is that different from testosterone?
Like I said, it's like taking vit-c to strengthen you immune system. You can naturally increase the levels of vit-c in your body by eating the right foods. Your body also only absorbs as much vit-c it needs form supplements and you piss out the rest. Creatine works very much the same, you can increase the levels by simply eating more meat.
Last edited by Average Joe on Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Thomas
Posts: 16884
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: STRAYA!

Re: SA Doping

Post by Thomas »

slick wrote:As an aside, perhaps the mod that banned be for this:
Well done SA.

Can’t shake the feeling that our sport is going to be rocked by years of SA PED’s abuse being uncovered. But there we are
during semi finals week of the WC, after 20+ years of no ban and no warning, might like to get on his knees and make a public apology. The twat.
Oh yeah! That was me. You did it in a match thread right after SA beat Japan in the RWC. It was reported by a number of posters. That's the great thing about the bored: it's self policing. Your peers deemed it to be a pretty snarky and somewhat cunty post. We agreed. I was just the lucky one to press the button.

Good times. :thumbup:
backrow
Posts: 22415
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SA Doping

Post by backrow »

Thomas wrote:
slick wrote:As an aside, perhaps the mod that banned be for this:
Well done SA.

Can’t shake the feeling that our sport is going to be rocked by years of SA PED’s abuse being uncovered. But there we are
during semi finals week of the WC, after 20+ years of no ban and no warning, might like to get on his knees and make a public apology. The twat.
Oh yeah! That was me. You did it in a match thread right after SA beat Japan in the RWC. It was reported by a number of posters. That's the great thing about the bored: it's self policing. Your peers deemed it to be a pretty snarky and somewhat cunty post. We agreed. I was just the lucky one to press the button.

Good times. :thumbup:
weird that you placed a ban for that on the back of a few reported notices, when Mods didn't ban someone making threats / data breach / oblique references on PR that was also multiple-reported.
User avatar
Thomas
Posts: 16884
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: STRAYA!

Re: SA Doping

Post by Thomas »

backrow wrote:
weird that you placed a ban for that on the back of a few reported notices, when Mods didn't ban someone making threats / data breach / oblique references on PR that was also multiple-reported.
Screws were tightened during the RWC. Increased traffic and all that, you see? Anyway, nothing of value was lost. Or missed.

Most bans are based on the back of a few reported posts. We can't read everything.
backrow
Posts: 22415
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SA Doping

Post by backrow »

Thomas wrote:
backrow wrote:
weird that you placed a ban for that on the back of a few reported notices, when Mods didn't ban someone making threats / data breach / oblique references on PR that was also multiple-reported.
Screws were tightened during the RWC. Increased traffic and all that, you see? Anyway, nothing of value was lost. Or missed.
yet.
why PR tacticly accepts repeated threats of GDPR breaches on its platform is beyond me.
User avatar
Insane_Homer
Posts: 12145
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Leafy Surrey, UK

Re: SA Doping

Post by Insane_Homer »

backrow wrote:GDPR breaches on its platform is beyond me.
What GDPR breaches?
Nolanator
Posts: 38840
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Dublin

Re: SA Doping

Post by Nolanator »

assfly wrote::lol: ok
What brand were you using and what sort of diet/program were you on? I've clearly been missing something for years. As have most other guys I know who lift.
User avatar
sorCrer
Posts: 12313
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SA Doping

Post by sorCrer »

Creatine is an important supplement for older men and most of you fit in this category. :thumbup:
User avatar
DragsterDriver
Posts: 25004
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Big Willi Style

Re: SA Doping

Post by DragsterDriver »

Nolanator wrote:
assfly wrote::lol: ok
What brand were you using and what sort of diet/program were you on? I've clearly been missing something for years. As have most other guys I know who lift.
Trenbolone
Post Reply