Courtney Lawes cited

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Kid A
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Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Kid A »

For this

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DOB
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by DOB »

Leading with shoulder, contact with head, force applied. Ticks all the boxes and I’m surprised it wasn’t scrutinized more during the game.
sockwithaticket
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by sockwithaticket »

If that were consistently applied, no issue. As it is, what a random incident to pick out.
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inactionman
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by inactionman »

Doesn't look clever at all.

But then, neither did half a dozen other things in that match. Assume this is just first in list of citings, or is that it?
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earl the beaver
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by earl the beaver »

There was a worse one in the game I think, Lawes hit someone (biggar I think) just as he started to fall, if he hadn't been falling it would have been a perfect tackle, but hit him high, certainly more contact than here where he appears to not connect cleanly.


Not that it matters to England, he and Marler will be available for the next match regardless of the citing outcome due to the suspension of the Italy game.
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Rugby2023 »

DOB wrote:Leading with shoulder, contact with head, force applied. Ticks all the boxes and I’m surprised it wasn’t scrutinized more during the game.
Not really clear tbh. Shoulder appears to go past/over the top of his head.
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by bimboman »

And Parkes tackle on Manu?
tc27
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by tc27 »

Will the off the ball spear tackle on Curry be cited?
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blindcider
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by blindcider »

earl the beaver wrote:There was a worse one in the game I think, Lawes hit someone (biggar I think) just as he started to fall, if he hadn't been falling it would have been a perfect tackle, but hit him high, certainly more contact than here where he appears to not connect cleanly.


Not that it matters to England, he and Marler will be available for the next match regardless of the citing outcome due to the suspension of the Italy game.
if you are talking about the one i remember Lawes was pretty static (less force) and Biggar dropped in height so there may be enough mitigation to call it a yellow, was surpised it wasn't reviewed. (and for some reason Kid A's gif isnt loading for me)

If Parkes and Williams are not also cited then it doesn't seem like the laws are being consistently applied however.
Yer Man
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Yer Man »

Anyone else think the ball carrier puts themselves at risk by ducking (well) below shoulder height as they take contact?
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Da iawn diolch
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Da iawn diolch »

Looks like the match thread suspicions about England's thuggery were justified. Wales were hard done-by, it appears.

Looking at the Lawes hit, he (like Manu) has the arm of his leading shoulder down at his side.

With the mitigation of Jones ducking, that's probably only a Yellow with a decent referee - but why wasn't this thuggery spotted at all?

When are these thugs going to learn that flapping the non-leading arm uselessly, while tucking the leading one, doesn't equate to "an attempt to wrap"?
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MrDominator
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by MrDominator »

Yer Man wrote:Anyone else think the ball carrier puts themselves at risk by ducking (well) below shoulder height as they take contact?
Exactly.

How the dickens are you supposed to tackle someone in that position?

Only a dwarf would be capable of tackling legally in that scenario.
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Frodder »

DOB wrote:Leading with shoulder, contact with head, force applied. Ticks all the boxes and I’m surprised it wasn’t scrutinized more during the game.
More evidence of the ref favouring Wales tbf
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Da iawn diolch
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Da iawn diolch »

MrDominator wrote:
Yer Man wrote:Anyone else think the ball carrier puts themselves at risk by ducking (well) below shoulder height as they take contact?
Exactly.

How the dickens are you supposed to tackle someone in that position?

Only a dwarf would be capable of tackling legally in that scenario.
Not smashing them shoulder-first with your leading arm at your side is usually a sure-fire way to avoid a citing. :thumbup:
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Mullet 2
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Mullet 2 »

It is the type of cheap shot the Boks were famed for.
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Da iawn diolch
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Da iawn diolch »

Mullet 2 wrote:It is the type of cheap shot the Boks were famed for.
I believe it was colloquially known as a 'Bakkies'; but I could be wrong?
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Tecumseh
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Tecumseh »

Rugby2023 wrote:
DOB wrote:Leading with shoulder, contact with head, force applied. Ticks all the boxes and I’m surprised it wasn’t scrutinized more during the game.
Not really clear tbh. Shoulder appears to go past/over the top of his head.
I couldn't believe Joncker didn't have BOK take a look at this. The coverage I watched showed it multiple times from multiple angles (there was a break in play for treatment) and IIRC it was the angle from behind Lawes that clearly showed shoulder to head contact.
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by SaintK »

bimboman wrote:And Parkes tackle on Manu?
.....was at least as bad as this. And what happened to Curry was even worse.
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SaintK
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by SaintK »

Da iawn diolch wrote:Looks like the match thread suspicions about England's thuggery were justified. Wales were hard done-by, it appears.

Looking at the Lawes hit, he (like Manu) has the arm of his leading shoulder down at his side.

With the mitigation of Jones ducking, that's probably only a Yellow with a decent referee - but why wasn't this thuggery spotted at all?

When are these thugs going to learn that flapping the non-leading arm uselessly, while tucking the leading one, doesn't equate to "an attempt to wrap"?
Bit like the Welsh replacement prop with his no arms tackle. Unfortunately for him he injured himself rather than his opponent!
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Rugby2023 »

Tecumseh wrote:
Rugby2023 wrote:
DOB wrote:Leading with shoulder, contact with head, force applied. Ticks all the boxes and I’m surprised it wasn’t scrutinized more during the game.
Not really clear tbh. Shoulder appears to go past/over the top of his head.
I couldn't believe Joncker didn't have BOK take a look at this. The coverage I watched showed it multiple times from multiple angles (there was a break in play for treatment) and IIRC it was the angle from behind Lawes that clearly showed shoulder to head contact.
Fair enough, I think this was the only angle on ITV's coverage.
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Rugby2023 »

earl the beaver wrote:Not that it matters to England, he and Marler will be available for the next match regardless of the citing outcome due to the suspension of the Italy game.
Indeed, but they likely won't even be selected given it's a summer tour to Japan (if it even goes ahead).
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by MaccTaff »

SaintK wrote:
Da iawn diolch wrote:Looks like the match thread suspicions about England's thuggery were justified. Wales were hard done-by, it appears.

Looking at the Lawes hit, he (like Manu) has the arm of his leading shoulder down at his side.

With the mitigation of Jones ducking, that's probably only a Yellow with a decent referee - but why wasn't this thuggery spotted at all?

When are these thugs going to learn that flapping the non-leading arm uselessly, while tucking the leading one, doesn't equate to "an attempt to wrap"?
Bit like the Welsh replacement prop with his no arms tackle. Unfortunately for him he injured himself rather than his opponent!
Leon Brown. It was awful technique x(
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DOB
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by DOB »

Rugby2023 wrote:
DOB wrote:Leading with shoulder, contact with head, force applied. Ticks all the boxes and I’m surprised it wasn’t scrutinized more during the game.
Not really clear tbh. Shoulder appears to go past/over the top of his head.
It’s a glancing blow, but I think it’s pretty clear that the shoulder makes head contact. And that Lawes is accelerating through it.

As for what Lawes should/could do there, not leading with the shoulder would be a good start. Any semblance of wrapping might not stop the ball-carrier in his tracks as well, but would improve the safety of the tackle.
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Kid A
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Kid A »

AWJ had treatment for a head injury for 2 minutes after that hit by the way.
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by DragsterDriver »

He’s ducked into it. Who is the citing officer?
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DragsterDriver
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by DragsterDriver »

Kid A wrote:AWJ had treatment for a head injury for 2 minutes after that hit by the way.
Did he pass the HIA?
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Laurent »

DragsterDriver wrote:
Kid A wrote:AWJ had treatment for a head injury for 2 minutes after that hit by the way.
Did he pass the HIA?
The welsh way ...
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by 4071 »

Kid A wrote:AWJ had treatment for a head injury for 2 minutes after that hit by the way.
I'm not surprised. Though that's unlikely to be related to Lawes' shoulder brushing the top of his head, so much as the rest of Lawes colliding with him as he ducked into the tackle.
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Mullet 2 »

DragsterDriver wrote:He’s ducked into it. Who is the citing officer?
:lol: :lol:
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Joost
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Joost »

Would be interesting to see another angle; looks to me like the first contact is the top of AWJ’s head into Lawes’ chest - would probably have been a stinger for AWJ, but nothing more.

Thought there were several far more dangerous challenges from both sides tbh :?
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Clive Simms »

tc27 wrote:Will the off the ball spear tackle on Curry be cited?
No. For this to be cited it had to have actually happened first
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Da iawn diolch
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Da iawn diolch »

SaintK wrote:
Da iawn diolch wrote:Looks like the match thread suspicions about England's thuggery were justified. Wales were hard done-by, it appears.

Looking at the Lawes hit, he (like Manu) has the arm of his leading shoulder down at his side.

With the mitigation of Jones ducking, that's probably only a Yellow with a decent referee - but why wasn't this thuggery spotted at all?

When are these thugs going to learn that flapping the non-leading arm uselessly, while tucking the leading one, doesn't equate to "an attempt to wrap"?
Bit like the Welsh replacement prop with his no arms tackle. Unfortunately for him he injured himself rather than his opponent!
That tackle was both retarded, and deserving of a yellow card. No argument from me there.
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Frodder »

DragsterDriver wrote:He’s ducked into it. Who is the citing officer?
Some random Welsh poster
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SaintK
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by SaintK »

Clive Simms wrote:
tc27 wrote:Will the off the ball spear tackle on Curry be cited?
No. For this to be cited it had to have actually happened first
What, this one. Nasty elbow to the face for afters as well
https://twitter.com/i/status/1236372577586741248
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Frodder »

SaintK wrote:
Clive Simms wrote:
tc27 wrote:Will the off the ball spear tackle on Curry be cited?
No. For this to be cited it had to have actually happened first
What, this one. Nasty elbow to the face for afters as well
https://twitter.com/i/status/1236372577586741248
Spear tackle?
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Da iawn diolch
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Da iawn diolch »

DOB wrote:
Rugby2023 wrote:
DOB wrote:Leading with shoulder, contact with head, force applied. Ticks all the boxes and I’m surprised it wasn’t scrutinized more during the game.
Not really clear tbh. Shoulder appears to go past/over the top of his head.
It’s a glancing blow, but I think it’s pretty clear that the shoulder makes head contact. And that Lawes is accelerating through it.

As for what Lawes should/could do there, not leading with the shoulder would be a good start. Any semblance of wrapping might not stop the ball-carrier in his tracks as well, but would improve the safety of the tackle.
This.

Lawes never thought for a moment about making a wrapping 'soak' tackle, and pulling Jones to ground. His only intention was to smash him, as hard as he could, shoulder-first with a tucked arm.

If he was defending his tryline, I'd almost be able to understand it. But this was on halfway.

This is the kind of mindless tackle technique that causes head injuries, and that these Laws are being enforced to remove.
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Da iawn diolch
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Da iawn diolch »

SaintK wrote:
Clive Simms wrote:
tc27 wrote:Will the off the ball spear tackle on Curry be cited?
No. For this to be cited it had to have actually happened first
What, this one. Nasty elbow to the face for afters as well
https://twitter.com/i/status/1236372577586741248
You mean the clearout where waif-like Williams lifted the behemoth Curry from under his armpits, and rolled him away?

That 'spear tackle', yeah? :lol:
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SaintK
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by SaintK »

Da iawn diolch wrote:
SaintK wrote:
Clive Simms wrote:
tc27 wrote:Will the off the ball spear tackle on Curry be cited?
No. For this to be cited it had to have actually happened first
What, this one. Nasty elbow to the face for afters as well
https://twitter.com/i/status/1236372577586741248
You mean the clearout where waif-like Williams lifted the behemoth Curry from under his armpits, and rolled him away?

That 'spear tackle', yeah? :lol:
Neck roll and elbow plant in the face. Quite dangerous.
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Mullet 2
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Mullet 2 »

Very shrill from SaintK

Don't like to see it
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Re: Courtney Lawes cited

Post by Dobbin »

Frodder wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:He’s ducked into it. Who is the citing officer?
Some random Welsh poster
That doesn't narrow it down - all you Welsh posters are random.
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