Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Blake
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Blake »

Average Joe wrote:Easy to pontificate from a place of relative comfort. Tell all this to some single mother who lost her job who has to feed her hungry babies or a small business owner busy witnessing the downfall of his life's work who's family relies on him to bring in the beacon. Tell a bunch of unemployed youth who has very little to get excited about, to just stay the fok at home alone. I bet you most will give you the finger and tell you to fokof with your lock-down and all your bullshit studies and percentages.
I agree with you completely and don't for a moment think I am advocating for anybody to just "sit at home" because I have that privilege.
I am not in favour of another Level 5 lockdown situation at all. That was a one-time card that we have used and it's gone now.

All I am saying is that people should stay at home as much as possible, and stay away from ALL other people, as much as possible,
This includes any kind of social gatherings that can be avoided. That's it...
- stay at home as much as you possibly can,
- wash your hands after every interaction with an object touched by another person,
- wear a mask when you are out in public and within a couple of meters of another person
- and try to stay 2m away or have some protective screen between 2 people if they have to be in close proximity

Businesses that want to open and operate should be allowed to do so, as long as they can provide their workers and customers ways to adhere to these guidelines.
And customers should be responsible enough to avoid business that don't.

That's it.

Now, this will still ruin many industries and jobs...tourism, airline travel etc and it is close to unworkable for people that rely on public transport, but it is the least we can do to try and avoid a healthcare collapse. Most of those things don't cost a lot of money to Joe Public...some soap, some cloth and some inconvenience.

And yes, it is a bit onerous on business with additional expenses, but it is preferable to the alternative of another lockdown when the bodies start piling up this time.

It would be great if we lived in a society where everybody would just be responsible, but we don't.
Last edited by Blake on Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sards
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Does anyone know the reasons for the lockdown...I feel we need to explore this ....
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Blake
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Blake »

Sards wrote:Does anyone know the reasons for the lockdown...I feel we need to explore this ....
Are you serious or are you trolling, because I don't want to spend an hour on this if you are trolling.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Blake wrote:
Sards wrote:Does anyone know the reasons for the lockdown...I feel we need to explore this ....
Are you serious or are you trolling, because I don't want to spend an hour on this if you are trolling.
I think he just rolled another joint....
OomStruisbaai
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by OomStruisbaai »

Heard through the grapevines boos will be banned from friday till end of July.
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Catman
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Catman »

Catman wrote:
Blake wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Blake wrote:
Fangle wrote:Compared to my county of just over a million people, and includes a lot of Atlanta, South Africa is doing remarkably well.

We have over 2000 cases and 75 deaths.
Agreed, we are doing well compared to many other places, but it’s just frustrating that things are not going according to plan. People are making massive sacrifices and we are just not getting where we need to be to get onto the next phase.

The reality is, this is just the start for us. Once the lockdown lifts, all hell is going to break loose here.
Millions are running out of food, the hell that’s coming isn’t Covid19. :(
Ain’t that the truth.

I fully support the lockdown measures, but saw and interesting economic analysis.
In crude financial terms, it has been calculated that a life in the USA is “worth” US$50,000 per year. Now don’t ask me how that number was determined, but that was the baseline.

And according to this economist, they have spent the equivalent of $2.5million per life that will supposedly be saved by the lockdown based on the projections of deaths at the time.

I don’t know what that means and if the numbers are accurate, but it was an interesting way to look at the situation. If it were possible, some how, to extract all that value that has now been lost, before it was lost, and used it to build the infrastructure needed to deal with this it would have been amazing because once it is over you have the asset. Now that capital has just evaporated AND people are in dire straits.
Precisely. The lockdown has postponed the inevitable surge, but at what cost? It amazes me that there arent more models of the direct impact on incremental early death rate will be in years to come, caused by the economic devastation being wrought right now. There will literally be tens of thousands dying from starvation, increased violent crime, massive zenophobia, etc. This should have been weighed against the benefits. And to be clear , the benefit is quite simply fewer people dying now.

I know people hate this way of thinking - some say its immoral, but its a simple equation really:

X = A-B
where A = the no who will die young(er) in the future as a direct result of the incrementally worse economic conditions caused by lockdown. (remember there is no time limit for this number either)
B= no who would have died due to CV19 (the incremental no who would've died with no lock down)

If X>0 the lockdown was a bad idea.

IMO the A number is going to be absolutely huge and this takes no account of qualitative factors either. How do you factor in the misery associated with mass unemployment for years to come?

To me the big problem has been that everyone has been frantically forecasting and modelling B, with not enough being done to estimate A. This is starting to change but its too late. The damage is done.
bump from 21 April
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Sards
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Sandstorm wrote:
Blake wrote:
Sards wrote:Does anyone know the reasons for the lockdown...I feel we need to explore this ....
Are you serious or are you trolling, because I don't want to spend an hour on this if you are trolling.
I think he just rolled another joint....
Almost time.....

Yes I am serious....why was lockdown implemented.

To give government enough time to prepare. That's it....right now the extensions mean....
A. Government is not ready.
B. We are being vokked with.

That's it.
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Sards
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Its very frustrating. The struggle is real...I see how my kids are struggling to wake up and do school work every day. It's a huge struggle for my wife who has a lot to do.

We are developing a generation of shirkers. And giving them every excuse
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Blake
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Blake »

Sards wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Blake wrote:
Sards wrote:Does anyone know the reasons for the lockdown...I feel we need to explore this ....
Are you serious or are you trolling, because I don't want to spend an hour on this if you are trolling.
I think he just rolled another joint....
Almost time.....

Yes I am serious....why was lockdown implemented.

To give government enough time to prepare. That's it....right now the extensions mean....
A. Government is not ready.
B. We are being vokked with.

That's it.
The goal of lockdown was/is to:
1. Reduce the rate of transmission in the public
2. Give public and private labs the time to increase testing capacity
3. Increase contact tracing capacity and attempt to catch infection clusters early
4. Give health departments the opportunity to recruit and train community health workers
5. Give public and private hospitals time to implement containment measures and dedicated Covid wards
6. Give Provincial government time to increase hospital bed capacity
7. Buy some time hoping that an effective clinical treatment would be discovered
8. Buy some time so that more data would be available to improve the models

#1 is still the most important one, and that is on us, the general public, to achieve. Every time we fail at that because we can't resist the urge to go to a crowded Seapoint Promenade or host a braai for a bunch of friends, it affects #2 - #8 all over again.

We had one chance to be in close to New Zealand's situation.
It was a long shot, but we failed. Not government, us the people. :(
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by assfly »

Sards wrote:Its very frustrating. The struggle is real...I see how my kids are struggling to wake up and do school work every day. It's a huge struggle for my wife who has a lot to do.

We are developing a generation of shirkers. And giving them every excuse
We're on the British curriculum here. Means that kids won't be going back to school until early September. 5 months break :((
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Blake wrote:
Sards wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Blake wrote:
Sards wrote:Does anyone know the reasons for the lockdown...I feel we need to explore this ....
Are you serious or are you trolling, because I don't want to spend an hour on this if you are trolling.
I think he just rolled another joint....
Almost time.....

Yes I am serious....why was lockdown implemented.

To give government enough time to prepare. That's it....right now the extensions mean....
A. Government is not ready.
B. We are being vokked with.

That's it.
The goal of lockdown was/is to:
1. Reduce the rate of transmission in the public
2. Give public and private labs the time to increase testing capacity
3. Increase contact tracing capacity and attempt to catch infection clusters early
4. Give health departments the opportunity to recruit and train community health workers
5. Give public and private hospitals time to implement containment measures and dedicated Covid wards
6. Give Provincial government time to increase hospital bed capacity
7. Buy some time hoping that an effective clinical treatment would be discovered
8. Buy some time so that more data would be available to improve the models

#1 is still the most important one, and that is on us, the general public, to achieve. Every time we fail at that because we can't resist the urge to go to a crowded Seapoint Promenade or host a braai for a bunch of friends, it affects #2 - #8 all over again.

We had one chance to be in close to New Zealand's situation.
It was a long shot, but we failed. Not government, us the people. :(
Give yourself an uppercut. I can't stand such self pity. You are a keyboard warrior dude. Us foot soldiers will put our best foot forward and confront the enemy for you.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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assfly wrote:
Sards wrote:Its very frustrating. The struggle is real...I see how my kids are struggling to wake up and do school work every day. It's a huge struggle for my wife who has a lot to do.

We are developing a generation of shirkers. And giving them every excuse
We're on the British curriculum here. Means that kids won't be going back to school until early September. 5 months break :((
Dang.... :shock:
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by assfly »

Sards wrote:Dang.... :shock:
Our elder kid is managing fine, the younger one is going a bit doff. I guess that sorts out which one will be going to university.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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assfly wrote:
Sards wrote:Dang.... :shock:
Our elder kid is managing fine, the younger one is going a bit doff. I guess that sorts out which one will be going to university.
The opposite for us....
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Vleis »

OomPB wrote:
Rinkals wrote: Heard them say on Classic FM that the lifting of the booze ban has impacted on the virus spread.

How the fu ck they'd know after 5 days is a mystery.
Also heard that rumour. We need to stock up again?
I heard the rumour that they're planning on banning booze from Wednesday until the end of July, so I contacted my mate who warned me about the original lockdown. He says that there is indeed a proposal to ban booze, but that there is heavy opposition against it. He thinks that the opposition will prevail (i.e. no booze ban), but suggested that I stock up as a precautionary measure.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Average Joe »

Blake wrote:.

The goal of lockdown was/is to:
1. Reduce the rate of transmission in the public
2. Give public and private labs the time to increase testing capacity
3. Increase contact tracing capacity and attempt to catch infection clusters early
4. Give health departments the opportunity to recruit and train community health workers
5. Give public and private hospitals time to implement containment measures and dedicated Covid wards
6. Give Provincial government time to increase hospital bed capacity
7. Buy some time hoping that an effective clinical treatment would be discovered
8. Buy some time so that more data would be available to improve the models

#1 is still the most important one, and that is on us, the general public, to achieve. Every time we fail at that because we can't resist the urge to go to a crowded Seapoint Promenade or host a braai for a bunch of friends, it affects #2 - #8 all over again.

We had one chance to be in close to New Zealand's situation.
It was a long shot, but we failed. Not government, us the people. :(
All those goals and in reality we've achieved none, even with being on one of the toughest lock-downs world wide.

A friend emigrated to NZ a few months before this thing hit. He was shocked when I told him about SA lock-down. He says that their lives hardly changed. They could buy anything (booze, smokes) They could go for walks, visit the beach, fok he even went with his wife and two toddlers to the beach and got some line wet on more than one occasion. He worked throughout, granted he had to wear something that looked like a full-on hazmat suite but he still got to go to work. If this is true you cant compare SA with NZ in any way. They achieved more than us with a lot less authoritarian laws.

When you ask people to give up so much and still tell them it's not enough but other countries do less and it's enough you should understand why people think it's a joke. People are gatvol and they don't believe anything from government anymore. They just want their lives to return to normal. Most don't even believe this virus exists, others believe it's not as bad as it's made out to be and that it's just some sort of power grab.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Sandstorm »

Average Joe wrote:If this is true you can't compare SA with NZ in any way. They achieved more than us without squatter camps and townships.
Fixed
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handyman
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by handyman »

Vleis wrote:
OomPB wrote:
Rinkals wrote: Heard them say on Classic FM that the lifting of the booze ban has impacted on the virus spread.

How the fu ck they'd know after 5 days is a mystery.
Also heard that rumour. We need to stock up again?
I heard the rumour that they're planning on banning booze from Wednesday until the end of July, so I contacted my mate who warned me about the original lockdown. He says that there is indeed a proposal to ban booze, but that there is heavy opposition against it. He thinks that the opposition will prevail (i.e. no booze ban), but suggested that I stock up as a precautionary measure.
I made sure today that I have enough for 3 months. Brandy, rum, wine and beer.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Sards »

AJ spot on.... :thumbup:
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Chilli »

The Eastern Cape government wants the national command council to consider banning the sale of alcohol in the province.

This is according to premier Oscar Mabuyane who chairs the provincial command council.

His sentiments comes just hours after health MEC Sindiswa Gomba told journalists on Monday that there was a surge in the number of trauma cases in hospitals over the weekend.

At Frere Hospital alone in East London, there were 67 trauma cases linked to alcohol, she said.


“I want to make a plea to the people of the Eastern Cape to drink responsibly because when they over indulge, that has been proven to result in car accidents, stabbing, rapes, and general violence which add more pressure on our already over stretched doctors and nurses,” she said.

However, Mabuyane told eNCA that they were considering lobbying for a ban of alcohol in the Eastern Cape.

“Alcohol is a problem generally and in our command council as a province, we said probably we must go back to national and lobby to really close down this problem of alcohol,” he said, adding that they were concerned at the rate some people had celebrated the unbanning of alcohol.

Mabuyane is the latest politician to campaign for the banning of alcohol after EFF leader Julius Malema strongly opposed the lifting of the ban, while Gauteng education MEC Panyaza Lesufi has been on a one man campaign for an alcohol free SA. — DispatchLIVE

This is a developing story.
:?
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by OomStruisbaai »

Vleis wrote:
OomPB wrote:
Rinkals wrote: Heard them say on Classic FM that the lifting of the booze ban has impacted on the virus spread.

How the fu ck they'd know after 5 days is a mystery.
Also heard that rumour. We need to stock up again?
I heard the rumour that they're planning on banning booze from Wednesday until the end of July, so I contacted my mate who warned me about the original lockdown. He says that there is indeed a proposal to ban booze, but that there is heavy opposition against it. He thinks that the opposition will prevail (i.e. no booze ban), but suggested that I stock up as a precautionary measure.
Keep us update. Please. Wednesday is a funny date, may be after thursday?
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Jensrsa »

On the day the ban was lifted, the Chris Hani Baragwanath hospital recorded 117 trauma cases.

Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs (Cogta) spokesperson Mlungisi Mtshali on Monday said government would not reinstate the alcohol ban – at least for now, reports Pretoria East Rekord.

Mtshali was responding to public comments alluding that the ban might be reinstated.

Although Mtshali could not comment on whether the national coronavirus command council was discussing the matter or not, he said the government had not taken any decision to reinstate the ban on alcohol sales.
https://citizen.co.za/news/south-africa ... ts-return/

If the hospitals come under pressure from alcohol related cases I assume they will re-instate the ban

According to guy at our local Tops there will probably be a 7 day notice, so no ban before next week
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Blake
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Blake »

Average Joe wrote:
Blake wrote:.

The goal of lockdown was/is to:
1. Reduce the rate of transmission in the public
2. Give public and private labs the time to increase testing capacity
3. Increase contact tracing capacity and attempt to catch infection clusters early
4. Give health departments the opportunity to recruit and train community health workers
5. Give public and private hospitals time to implement containment measures and dedicated Covid wards
6. Give Provincial government time to increase hospital bed capacity
7. Buy some time hoping that an effective clinical treatment would be discovered
8. Buy some time so that more data would be available to improve the models

#1 is still the most important one, and that is on us, the general public, to achieve. Every time we fail at that because we can't resist the urge to go to a crowded Seapoint Promenade or host a braai for a bunch of friends, it affects #2 - #8 all over again.

We had one chance to be in close to New Zealand's situation.
It was a long shot, but we failed. Not government, us the people. :(
All those goals and in reality we've achieved none, even with being on one of the toughest lock-downs world wide.

A friend emigrated to NZ a few months before this thing hit. He was shocked when I told him about SA lock-down. He says that their lives hardly changed. They could buy anything (booze, smokes) They could go for walks, visit the beach, fok he even went with his wife and two toddlers to the beach and got some line wet on more than one occasion. He worked throughout, granted he had to wear something that looked like a full-on hazmat suite but he still got to go to work. If this is true you cant compare SA with NZ in any way. They achieved more than us with a lot less authoritarian laws.

When you ask people to give up so much and still tell them it's not enough but other countries do less and it's enough you should understand why people think it's a joke. People are gatvol and they don't believe anything from government anymore. They just want their lives to return to normal. Most don't even believe this virus exists, others believe it's not as bad as it's made out to be and that it's just some sort of power grab.
There's a lot to unpack there Joe. The effectiveness of the lockdown in SA and the strictness compared to other countries.

I'd say on efficacy it's been a failure yes; but that was due to the poor communication by government. They've been terrible and inconsistent in their messaging and decision making...but they are also hardly unique in that regard globally. There are very few governments that have handled this well. In retrospect I think it would have gone much better if there was more emphasis on transparency and public education, than on regulation and enforcement.

Countries that have handled the situation well AND have had comparatively "light" lock-downs, have high levels of social trust. Citizens trust their government to give them good information and act in their interest, government trusts their citizens to act rationally, and citizens trust each other to be responsible. We don't trust our government (and rightly so) and they don't trust the citizens (and right so)...so here we are...
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Chilli »

Blake wrote:
We had one chance to be in close to New Zealand's situation.
It was a long shot, but we failed. Not government, us the people.
:(
This.

I really believe that the Presidents intentions were good and has worked to a large extent.
By not being able to control the movement of the people, and the people not being responsible, we are in for a lot of hurt.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Sards »

Like myself and some like minded business owners have decided. The only way to recovery is to get working and diversify.
Got to get people back to work. Every person that goes to work eats something during the day. That stimulates that sector. They use their vehicles...that stimulates that sector and so on and so on.
The biggest issue is the treatment of us business owners and the waffle of the Malema's and the " campaign against the racist economy " by Cyril. Hulle weet net nie...n boer maak n plan
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Blake »

Sards wrote:Like myself and some like minded business owners have decided. The only way to recovery is to get working and diversify.
Got to get people back to work. Every person that goes to work eats something during the day. That stimulates that sector. They use their vehicles...that stimulates that sector and so on and so on.
The biggest issue is the treatment of us business owners and the waffle of the Malema's and the " campaign against the racist economy " by Cyril. Hulle weet net nie...n boer maak n plan
Again, I don't think anybody can make a rational argument against people going back to work. We need businesses trading and people earning wages.

Employers are going to have to provide an environment that is conducive to limiting infections at work. Not because of regulations, but because it is good for business to have their workforce healthy and productive. It's going to be hard to get any business functioning when you have to shut down and sanitise your facility every second week and have everybody tested because one employee got sick; and then have that person off sick for 2 weeks at best and 2 months at worst if they don't succumb to the virus. There are going to be family funerals and compassionate leave. It really is a team effort and businesses and business owners / leaders should be leading by example and trying to do whatever they can to educate their staff and reduce their risk. Organise transport if it is feasible, try to do bulk grocery shopping runs for staff or pay a little earlier so they don't have to go into crowded stores over pay weekend. Above and beyond as far as you can.

Workers will have a responsibility to do as much as humanely possible to stay healthy when away from work...such as limiting social interactions wherever possible, and being very careful to sanitise frequently and be especially careful when using public transport.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Sandstorm »

Forcing everyone in SA to wear a mask outdoors is a very good thing. Keep wearing them, folks. :thumbup:
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Blake »

Sards wrote:Give yourself an uppercut. I can't stand such self pity. You are a keyboard warrior dude. Us foot soldiers will put our best foot forward and confront the enemy for you.
Not self pity boet, just disappointment in my fellow man.
But I've moved beyond that and I'm targeting the opportunities beyond.

Business is booming and sales are almost double what they were before we went into lockdown. :thumbup:

I'm saving as much as possible to try and help our friends and family that aren't as lucky, and hopefully once all this has blown over and I've managed to avoid death or massive medical debt, there are going to be many assets to pick up for cents on the Rand.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Blake »

Sandstorm wrote:Forcing everyone in SA to wear a mask outdoors is a very good thing. Keep wearing them, folks. :thumbup:
Not sure if that was sarcasm, but I agree. It was one of the things I'm glad was enforced and enforced as early as it was.

The downside is that, for some reason, people think that when they are wearing a mask, social distancing guidelines no longer apply. It's infuriating.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Sandstorm »

Blake wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:Forcing everyone in SA to wear a mask outdoors is a very good thing. Keep wearing them, folks. :thumbup:
Not sure if that was sarcasm, but I agree. It was one of the things I'm glad was enforced and enforced as early as it was.

The downside is that, for some reason, people think that when they are wearing a mask, social distancing guidelines no longer apply. It's infuriating.
Not sarcastic at all!

I'm annoyed at the average Brit's response: "Where's the science that prove it works?" Dickheads.

It all comes down to education and how clear the various Govt's message are: most are crap at explaining all the required methods to combat transmission in plain language. :thumbdown:
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Sards »

Blake wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:Forcing everyone in SA to wear a mask outdoors is a very good thing. Keep wearing them, folks. :thumbup:
Not sure if that was sarcasm, but I agree. It was one of the things I'm glad was enforced and enforced as early as it was.

The downside is that, for some reason, people think that when they are wearing a mask, social distancing guidelines no longer apply. It's infuriating.

:lol:

You are so naive. I challenge you to spend an entire hour without touching something that may have been in contact with Covid19.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Vleis »

Sandstorm wrote:
Blake wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:Forcing everyone in SA to wear a mask outdoors is a very good thing. Keep wearing them, folks. :thumbup:
Not sure if that was sarcasm, but I agree. It was one of the things I'm glad was enforced and enforced as early as it was.

The downside is that, for some reason, people think that when they are wearing a mask, social distancing guidelines no longer apply. It's infuriating.
Not sarcastic at all!

I'm annoyed at the average Brit's response: "Where's the science that prove it works?" Dickheads.

It all comes down to education and how clear the various Govt's message are: most are crap at explaining all the required methods to combat transmission in plain language. :thumbdown:
Well...there is some science per a review in The Lancet, albeit the evidence needs to be strengthened:

The Lancet has published a review of prevention studies to see how effective different interventions are. The researchers found evidence that keeping one metre distance between people was protective and the effect increased as distance lengthened. Face masks can “result in a large reduction in risk of infection”. N95 or surgical masks are better than cloth masks. Wearing eye protection (goggles or face shields) is also useful.

But a key message is that the evidence supporting all of these interventions needs to be strengthened. “Robust randomised trials are needed to better inform the evidence for these interventions, but this systematic appraisal of currently best available evidence might inform interim guidance,” the authors write.
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Blake
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Blake »

Sandstorm wrote:It all comes down to education and how clear the various Govt's message are: most are crap at explaining all the required methods to combat transmission in plain language. :thumbdown:
It's been amazing seeing it. Decisiveness definitely helped, but communication and consistent messaging is so critical.

Even in Sweden, where their approach was comparatively unconventional, the communication was clear and the people bought into the plan.

Our government squandered a lot of the goodwill and social capital they had, because of terrible communication and lack of transparency. They own the SABC FFS. The SABC is starved for content. Hijack one of the channels and just play Covid education information pieces on a loop. Instead of having Cyril address the nation every 2 weeks, give us daily updates...not just of lockdowns and loans, but get an expert to explain the models and the plans, and the decisions and address some of the misinformation that's floating around.
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Jensrsa
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Jensrsa »

Sards wrote:
Blake wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:Forcing everyone in SA to wear a mask outdoors is a very good thing. Keep wearing them, folks. :thumbup:
Not sure if that was sarcasm, but I agree. It was one of the things I'm glad was enforced and enforced as early as it was.

The downside is that, for some reason, people think that when they are wearing a mask, social distancing guidelines no longer apply. It's infuriating.

:lol:

You are so naive. I challenge you to spend an entire hour without touching something that may have been in contact with Covid19.
Your solution - you will be in contact with Covid-19 so why bother limiting your exposure?
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Jensrsa
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Jensrsa »

Blake wrote: Even in Sweden, where their approach was comparatively unconventional, the communication was clear and the people bought into the plan.
Sweden? Wasn't their plan to do nothing?

4,694 deaths from 45,133 cases
7th highest deaths/1M population (465)

Not a good example.
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Blake
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Blake »

Sards wrote:
Blake wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:Forcing everyone in SA to wear a mask outdoors is a very good thing. Keep wearing them, folks. :thumbup:
Not sure if that was sarcasm, but I agree. It was one of the things I'm glad was enforced and enforced as early as it was.

The downside is that, for some reason, people think that when they are wearing a mask, social distancing guidelines no longer apply. It's infuriating.

:lol:

You are so naive. I challenge you to spend an entire hour without touching something that may have been in contact with Covid19.
I would lose that challenge because I also don't think that is possible and never said anything like that. :?
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Blake
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Blake »

Jensrsa wrote:
Blake wrote: Even in Sweden, where their approach was comparatively unconventional, the communication was clear and the people bought into the plan.
Sweden? Wasn't their plan to do nothing?

4,694 deaths from 45,133 cases
7th highest deaths/1M population (465)

Not a good example.
It's a misconception that they "did nothing". Their approach is more of a long game and we will see in November / December if it was successful or not. It is unconventional, and goes against what other countries are doing, but their people trust the plan because the health department is completely independent and free from political influence. They can't make and enforce laws, but they are also not going to be swayed by public opinion, hysteria and knee jerk reactions that could be a risk in the next election. It's all science and data and the population is educated enough to understand it, and understand the risks.

My comment isn't about the SUCCESS of their plan to date, but rather to praise them on the COMMUNICATION of their plan, and the public's reaction to both the plan itself and the high level of social trust they enjoy there.

Their big mistake, and they have admitted as much, was not communicating how much higher the risk was to older populations early enough. This caused a number of large outbreakes at Retirement Facilities and Old Age Homes.

It's a valid criticism and a valuable lessen to the rest of us. That's also why this is so difficult for South Africa...we have many households were children and being raised by grandparents on pension grants. It is also why schools reopening is so concerning. If that population is hit... :(
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Sandstorm
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Sandstorm »

Blake wrote:Instead of having Cyril address the nation every 2 weeks, give us daily updates...not just of lockdowns and loans, but get an expert to explain the models and the plans, and the decisions and address some of the misinformation that's floating around.
Whoa there!!! Are you saying Ms Dlamini-Zuma is NOT an expert? :shock:
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Rinkals
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Rinkals »

Blake wrote:
Sards wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Blake wrote:
Sards wrote:Does anyone know the reasons for the lockdown...I feel we need to explore this ....
Are you serious or are you trolling, because I don't want to spend an hour on this if you are trolling.
I think he just rolled another joint....
Almost time.....

Yes I am serious....why was lockdown implemented.

To give government enough time to prepare. That's it....right now the extensions mean....
A. Government is not ready.
B. We are being vokked with.

That's it.
The goal of lockdown was/is to:
1. Reduce the rate of transmission in the public
2. Give public and private labs the time to increase testing capacity
3. Increase contact tracing capacity and attempt to catch infection clusters early
4. Give health departments the opportunity to recruit and train community health workers
5. Give public and private hospitals time to implement containment measures and dedicated Covid wards
6. Give Provincial government time to increase hospital bed capacity
7. Buy some time hoping that an effective clinical treatment would be discovered
8. Buy some time so that more data would be available to improve the models

#1 is still the most important one, and that is on us, the general public, to achieve. Every time we fail at that because we can't resist the urge to go to a crowded Seapoint Promenade or host a braai for a bunch of friends, it affects #2 - #8 all over again.

We had one chance to be in close to New Zealand's situation.
It was a long shot, but we failed. Not government, us the people. :(
It was crowded BECAUSE Government implemented an irrational diktat which specified a window between 6am and 9am to try to crowd everybody together.

In practice, few people were up at 6 and most people were on the streets after 8am which anyone with half a brain could have foreseen, with the net result is that too many people were accessing too little areas within a very narrow time frame which would have been just the sort of tactic to use if your intention was to spread it as far and wide as possible.
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Wilson's Toffee
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Wilson's Toffee »

Sandstorm wrote:Forcing everyone in SA to wear a mask outdoors is a very good thing. Keep wearing them, folks. :thumbup:

World Health Organisation disagrees. Reckons ons should only wear a mask when treating a corona patient.

Tsotsi culture comes easy here, though.
.
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