Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Sards
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Sards »

Blake wrote:
Sards wrote:
Blake wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:Forcing everyone in SA to wear a mask outdoors is a very good thing. Keep wearing them, folks. :thumbup:
Not sure if that was sarcasm, but I agree. It was one of the things I'm glad was enforced and enforced as early as it was.

The downside is that, for some reason, people think that when they are wearing a mask, social distancing guidelines no longer apply. It's infuriating.

:lol:

You are so naive. I challenge you to spend an entire hour without touching something that may have been in contact with Covid19.
I would lose that challenge because I also don't think that is possible and never said anything like that. :?
Well if it is impossible to stop contracting the virus unless you cocoon yourself for the rest of your life why try stop it. Unless you are high risk eg. Age or medical condition. I have met you. You are a big and healthy lad. You have less to worry about than me.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Rinkals wrote:It was crowded BECAUSE Government implemented an irrational diktat which specified a window between 6am and 9am to try to crowd everybody together.

In practice, few people were up at 6 and most people were on the streets after 8am which anyone with half a brain could have foreseen, with the net result is that too many people were accessing too little areas within a very narrow time frame which would have been just the sort of tactic to use if your intention was to spread it as far and wide as possible.
Yes and no.

Yes it was a stupid regulation that inevitably led to the promenade being crowded. But you know what a responsible person would do? He would open the front door, see what a clusterfuck it is out there, and turn right the fudge around.

If you NEED government to ban you from doing something that stupid like going out in a crowd like that and undoing 5 weeks of sacrifice because you can’t wait one more week while the absurdity of the regulations get sorted out, then you deserve to do treated like a child and prevented from buying booze and doing other activities because you clearly cannot be trusted to use good judgement on your own.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Sards wrote:Well if it is impossible to stop contracting the virus unless you cocoon yourself for the rest of your life why try stop it. Unless you are high risk eg. Age or medical condition. I have met you. You are a big and healthy lad. You have less to worry about than me.
It’s about doing you part to prevent the spread.
You keep looking at it from the point of not getting sick or getting sick and getting over it.
I’m looking at it from the point of not getting sick at all so that I don’t spread it to anybody else, regardless of the outcome to myself.

Statistically I am likely to get through this just fine. I’m in the best shape of my life and my only risk is smoking off and on over the last 10 years. But statistically speaking, if I were infected, at the current rate of infection I will pass on the virus to 2 other people before I started showing symptoms...more if I am asymptomatic and if I weren’t taking these measures. And those 2 would pass it to 4 others and eventually my mom or dad or gran would get it. The same goes for wearing a mask when I go grocery shopping.

I do my part to break the chain of transmission as much as I can.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Blake wrote:
Sards wrote:Well if it is impossible to stop contracting the virus unless you cocoon yourself for the rest of your life why try stop it. Unless you are high risk eg. Age or medical condition. I have met you. You are a big and healthy lad. You have less to worry about than me.
It’s about doing you part to prevent the spread.
You keep looking at it from the point of not getting sick or getting sick and getting over it.
I’m looking at it from the point of not getting sick at all so that I don’t spread it to anybody else, regardless of the outcome to myself.

Statistically I am likely to get through this just fine. I’m in the best shape of my life and my only risk is smoking off and on over the last 10 years. But statistically speaking, if I were infected, at the current rate of infection I will pass on the virus to 2 other people before I started showing symptoms...more if I am asymptomatic and if I weren’t taking these measures. And those 2 would pass it to 4 others and eventually my mom or dad or gran would get it. The same goes for wearing a mask when I go grocery shopping.

I do my part to break the chain of transmission as much as I can.

It's Sards FFS, he is a solid oke but a boilermaker and filthy fokken tjarks supporter. :(
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:Forcing everyone in SA to wear a mask outdoors is a very good thing. Keep wearing them, folks. :thumbup:

World Health Organisation disagrees. Reckons ons should only wear a mask when treating a corona patient.

Tsotsi culture comes easy here, though.
.
Well, as usual, I bow to your superior inside information of the inner working of the WHO.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/the-who-has-new-advice-for-wearing-masks-and-making-your-own-1.4973311
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Jensrsa »

I think only stupid people would risk spreading or contracting the virus by not wearing masks in public, by not limiting social contact, etc.

"There is no proof" is a stupid argument
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Blake »

Rinkals wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:Forcing everyone in SA to wear a mask outdoors is a very good thing. Keep wearing them, folks. :thumbup:

World Health Organisation disagrees. Reckons ons should only wear a mask when treating a corona patient.

Tsotsi culture comes easy here, though.
.
Well, as usual, I bow to your superior inside information of the inner working of the WHO.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/the-who-has-new-advice-for-wearing-masks-and-making-your-own-1.4973311
While the messaging from NDZ, Razzmatazz Mbalula and Davies have been disaster after disaster before, during and after lockdown, it really should be acknowledged how consistent and on-point the messaging and information form the Health Department and NICD has been. It’s almost like they learnt their lesson after the HIV-Aids debacles. :thumbup:

We were way ahead on the mask thing before many other countries outside of East Asia
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Rinkals »

Blake wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:Forcing everyone in SA to wear a mask outdoors is a very good thing. Keep wearing them, folks. :thumbup:

World Health Organisation disagrees. Reckons ons should only wear a mask when treating a corona patient.

Tsotsi culture comes easy here, though.
.
Well, as usual, I bow to your superior inside information of the inner working of the WHO.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/the-who-has-new-advice-for-wearing-masks-and-making-your-own-1.4973311
While the messaging from NDZ, Razzmatazz Mbalula and Davies have been disaster after disaster before, during and after lockdown, it really should be acknowledged how consistent and on-point the messaging and information form the Health Department and NICD has been. It’s almost like they learnt their lesson after the HIV-Aids debacles. :thumbup:

We were way ahead on the mask thing before many other countries outside of East Asia
I agree 100%.

Regardless of whether hindsight will tell is if we were right or wrong to go into lockdown as early as we did, I felt it was absolutely imperative that we do everything we could to try to keep it out of the townships, informal settlements and high density areas where hygiene and social distancing is a lot more challenging.

As to whether you can blame people for taking their chances when they are only allowed a couple of hours outside, I'm not sure you can. I suppose those of us with big gardens may be a little more culpable, but imagine if you have been cooped up in a small flat for 2 months: would you look at the clusterfuck outside and deem it too dangerous to venture out?
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Rinkals wrote:As to whether you can blame people for taking their chances when they are only allowed a couple of hours outside, I'm not sure you can. I suppose those of us with big gardens may be a little more culpable, but imagine if you have been cooped up in a small flat for 2 months: would you look at the clusterfuck outside and deem it too dangerous to venture out?
I honestly would - but I suppose it is a personality thing.
I don't see the point of pissing away 5 weeks worth of sacrifice for a crowded 2 hour walk.

Absolutely blame the clowns in government for the stupid rules they came out with and petition your ward counselor and premier to have them overturned, which they eventually did, but don't be stupid about it. All you did is hit the reset button and undo your hard work. I feel the same way about religious gatherings opening up again. Just because you are "allowed" to go now, doesn't mean you should.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Bokkom wrote:This has probably been discussed somewhere else and I am definitely no expert on either medicine, statistics or virology, but this Diamond Princess case is very interesting, IMO. A near perfect situation to study this virus, because of its isolation and people being crammed together for a month with the virus running rampant. But even here less than 20% of the people were infected of which 18% had no symptoms.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00885-w
Yes, I saw this too. Suggests that there is a natural saturation point
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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sorCrer wrote:
Blake wrote:
Sards wrote:Well if it is impossible to stop contracting the virus unless you cocoon yourself for the rest of your life why try stop it. Unless you are high risk eg. Age or medical condition. I have met you. You are a big and healthy lad. You have less to worry about than me.
It’s about doing you part to prevent the spread.
You keep looking at it from the point of not getting sick or getting sick and getting over it.
I’m looking at it from the point of not getting sick at all so that I don’t spread it to anybody else, regardless of the outcome to myself.

Statistically I am likely to get through this just fine. I’m in the best shape of my life and my only risk is smoking off and on over the last 10 years. But statistically speaking, if I were infected, at the current rate of infection I will pass on the virus to 2 other people before I started showing symptoms...more if I am asymptomatic and if I weren’t taking these measures. And those 2 would pass it to 4 others and eventually my mom or dad or gran would get it. The same goes for wearing a mask when I go grocery shopping.

I do my part to break the chain of transmission as much as I can.

It's Sards FFS, he is a solid oke but a boilermaker and filthy fokken tjarks supporter. :(
Things of the hammer and the hand but not of the mind.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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It amazes me when I watch Sky News how so few people in the UK are wearing masks, including their leaders. 40,000 dead ffs!
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by OomStruisbaai »

Western Cape

Only 12% - or one in eight people who died – had no apparent comorbidity, with some at risk due to age or other factors.

Despite the high infection rate of the virus, the vast majority of people survive.

The national health department says South Africa's death rate is still only 2% of all positive cases. The vast majority of people recover.

The Western Cape government says 90% of people who contract the virus will not need any hospitalisation, and will recover from the virus within two weeks.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by handyman »

Blake wrote:
Sards wrote:Give yourself an uppercut. I can't stand such self pity. You are a keyboard warrior dude. Us foot soldiers will put our best foot forward and confront the enemy for you.


I'm saving as much as possible to try and help our friends and family that aren't as lucky, and hopefully once all this has blown over and I've managed to avoid death or massive medical debt, there are going to be many assets to pick up for cents on the Rand.
Surely's one's medical aid will pay if you contract Covid?
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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assfly wrote:It amazes me when I watch Sky News how so few people in the UK are wearing masks, including their leaders. 40,000 dead ffs!
I had a bit of an argument with a number of English people on the main Virus thread who maintained (much like WT does on here) that masks are ineffectual.

Further, they made the claim that masks are actually more dangerous because of what they term "the seatbelt effect", whereby people tend to behave in a more risky manner if they believe that they are protected. Additionally, they feel tha masks actively encourage the touching of the face elevating the chance of catching the virus.

In my view, although masks probably don't protect the wearer (unless, of course, they are properly fitted PPE especially designed for the task), they inhibit the exhalation of droplets.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Rinkals wrote:
assfly wrote:It amazes me when I watch Sky News how so few people in the UK are wearing masks, including their leaders. 40,000 dead ffs!
I had a bit of an argument with a number of English people on the main Virus thread who maintained (much like WT does on here) that masks are ineffectual.

Further, they made the claim that masks are actually more dangerous because of what they term "the seatbelt effect", whereby people tend to behave in a more risky manner if they believe that they are protected. Additionally, they feel tha masks actively encourage the touching of the face elevating the chance of catching the virus.

In my view, although masks probably don't protect the wearer (unless, of course, they are properly fitted PPE especially designed for the task), they inhibit the exhalation of droplets.
Yes that more or less the sort of defence I've been hearing.

For me it's not even up for debate. I don't see how a country with the second highest number of deaths is in any position to think otherwise.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Wrong thread.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Rinkals »

assfly wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
assfly wrote:It amazes me when I watch Sky News how so few people in the UK are wearing masks, including their leaders. 40,000 dead ffs!
I had a bit of an argument with a number of English people on the main Virus thread who maintained (much like WT does on here) that masks are ineffectual.

Further, they made the claim that masks are actually more dangerous because of what they term "the seatbelt effect", whereby people tend to behave in a more risky manner if they believe that they are protected. Additionally, they feel tha masks actively encourage the touching of the face elevating the chance of catching the virus.

In my view, although masks probably don't protect the wearer (unless, of course, they are properly fitted PPE especially designed for the task), they inhibit the exhalation of droplets.
Yes that more or less the sort of defence I've been hearing.

For me it's not even up for debate. I don't see how a country with the second highest number of deaths is in any position to think otherwise.
Because they believe themselves to be superior.

It was only when I went to live there for 20 years that I understood this.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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OomPB wrote:
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If you want to survive Covid19, don't be a fat cnut. A pine casket beckons....
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Lemoentjie »

There's no medical argument against wearing a mask. No one can argue that it makes transmission more likely, so there's no harm to wear one even if you think it's not very effective. The argument is more about one of the state's control over your body.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Lemoentjie wrote:The argument is more about one of the state's control over your body.
You are a weirdo.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Vleis »

Rinkals wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:Forcing everyone in SA to wear a mask outdoors is a very good thing. Keep wearing them, folks. :thumbup:

World Health Organisation disagrees. Reckons ons should only wear a mask when treating a corona patient.

Tsotsi culture comes easy here, though.
.
Well, as usual, I bow to your superior inside information of the inner working of the WHO.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/the-who-has-new-advice-for-wearing-masks-and-making-your-own-1.4973311
I guess that it depends on which person is providing the advice at the WHO. Yesterday, Maria Van Kerkhove (head of the WHO’s emerging diseases and zoonosis unit) said that it's "very rare" for asymptomatic people to widely spread coronavirus. Van Kerkhove said contact tracing of those who tested positive found that very few asymptomatic carriers gave the virus to others.

“From the data we have, it still seems to be rare that an asymptomatic person actually transmits onward to a secondary individual," she said. "We have a number of reports from countries who are doing very detailed contact tracing. They’re following asymptomatic cases. They’re following contacts. And they’re not finding secondary transmission onward. It’s very rare."

Stopping the spread of the coronavirus between asymptomatic carriers has been a top concern for public health experts around the globe because many young adults and children do not present symptoms when infected with COVID-19. If further data backs up the WHO's claims, it could overhaul the actions being taken to curb the outbreak. Several policies, including mandates regarding the use of face masks, have been put into place to stop asymptomatic individuals from spreading the virus.

Van Kerkhove noted that more research must be done to “truly answer” questions about the threat of asymptomatic spreaders. She recommended that public health officials focus on containing symptomatic cases.

“What we really want to be focused on is following the symptomatic cases,” Van Kerkhove said, adding, “If we actually followed all of the symptomatic cases, isolated those cases, followed the contacts, and quarantined those contacts, we would drastically reduce [the outbreak].”
Last edited by Vleis on Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Lemoentjie »

Sandstorm wrote:
Lemoentjie wrote:The argument is more about one of the state's control over your body.
You are a weirdo.
:lol: I wish I had your confidence in governments. When will they remove the law that you have to wear a mask? When (if) COVID-19 is gone forever? When there's only 50 deaths per day?
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Lemoentjie wrote: :lol: I wish I had your confidence in governments. When will they remove the law that you have to wear a mask? When (if) COVID-19 is gone forever? When there's only 50 deaths per day?
It's nothing to do with the government, it's medical advice.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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The President of Burundi has died of a suspected heart-attack, but it's most likely Covid. His wife is currently in hospital in Nairobi receiving treatment for Covid, and apparently their kids have it too.

Let's hope he isn't the last despot the disease takes out.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Vleis »

assfly wrote:The President of Burundi has died of a suspected heart-attack, but it's most likely Covid. His wife is currently in hospital in Nairobi receiving treatment for Covid, and apparently their kids have it too.

Let's hope he isn't the last despot the disease takes out.
I presume that the Mara is empty at the moment?
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Vleis wrote:I presume that the Mara is empty at the moment?
Totally empty. Great for the animals, this might be the first crossing without the usual chaos of safari cars crowding the river. We even had a small herd of elephants that nearly made it all the way to Nairobi it is so quiet everywhere.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Blake »

Vleis wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:Forcing everyone in SA to wear a mask outdoors is a very good thing. Keep wearing them, folks. :thumbup:

World Health Organisation disagrees. Reckons ons should only wear a mask when treating a corona patient.

Tsotsi culture comes easy here, though.
.
Well, as usual, I bow to your superior inside information of the inner working of the WHO.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/the-who-has-new-advice-for-wearing-masks-and-making-your-own-1.4973311
I guess that it depends on which person is providing the advice at the WHO. Yesterday, Maria Van Kerkhove (head of the WHO’s emerging diseases and zoonosis unit) said that it's "very rare" for asymptomatic people to widely spread coronavirus. Van Kerkhove said contact tracing of those who tested positive found that very few asymptomatic carriers gave the virus to others.

“From the data we have, it still seems to be rare that an asymptomatic person actually transmits onward to a secondary individual," she said. "We have a number of reports from countries who are doing very detailed contact tracing. They’re following asymptomatic cases. They’re following contacts. And they’re not finding secondary transmission onward. It’s very rare."

Stopping the spread of the coronavirus between asymptomatic carriers has been a top concern for public health experts around the globe because many young adults and children do not present symptoms when infected with COVID-19. If further data backs up the WHO's claims, it could overhaul the actions being taken to curb the outbreak. Several policies, including mandates regarding the use of face masks, have been put into place to stop asymptomatic individuals from spreading the virus.

Van Kerkhove noted that more research must be done to “truly answer” questions about the threat of asymptomatic spreaders. She recommended that public health officials focus on containing symptomatic cases.

“What we really want to be focused on is following the symptomatic cases,” Van Kerkhove said, adding, “If we actually followed all of the symptomatic cases, isolated those cases, followed the contacts, and quarantined those contacts, we would drastically reduce [the outbreak].”
This is excellent news, and asymptomatic spread has been my biggest concern.
But I suspect masks will stay on as a requirement to curb the spread of droplets in that window between starting to show symptoms, getting tested and getting the result.

We’ll be living with masks for a while still.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Blake »

handyman wrote:
Blake wrote:
Sards wrote:Give yourself an uppercut. I can't stand such self pity. You are a keyboard warrior dude. Us foot soldiers will put our best foot forward and confront the enemy for you.


I'm saving as much as possible to try and help our friends and family that aren't as lucky, and hopefully once all this has blown over and I've managed to avoid death or massive medical debt, there are going to be many assets to pick up for cents on the Rand.
Surely's one's medical aid will pay if you contract Covid?
One would hope so, but I really don’t know.
I think there are a couple of variables, the plan you have, where you get admitted, the treatment you need, specialists (especially if you require a ventilator) and if there are any treatments you need to assist recovery.

Especially if you get admitted to a private hospital that charges more than your plan covers. If you don’t have gap cover and need to see specialists or have lasting lung damage that requires treatment etc...the costs might not all be covered.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Lemoentjie »

assfly wrote:
Lemoentjie wrote: :lol: I wish I had your confidence in governments. When will they remove the law that you have to wear a mask? When (if) COVID-19 is gone forever? When there's only 50 deaths per day?
It's nothing to do with the government, it's medical advice.
That's not my point! At what stage does the medical advice become 'you don't need to wear a mask'? Something objective and measurable.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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assfly wrote:
Vleis wrote:I presume that the Mara is empty at the moment?
Totally empty. Great for the animals, this might be the first crossing without the usual chaos of safari cars crowding the river. We even had a small herd of elephants that nearly made it all the way to Nairobi it is so quiet everywhere.
As you say, great for the animals...but terrible for Kenya, as tourism contributes some 10% of your GDP. I haven't been to the Mara in nearly 10 years - must get back in the next few years.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Vleis wrote:
assfly wrote:
Vleis wrote:I presume that the Mara is empty at the moment?
Totally empty. Great for the animals, this might be the first crossing without the usual chaos of safari cars crowding the river. We even had a small herd of elephants that nearly made it all the way to Nairobi it is so quiet everywhere.
As you say, great for the animals...but terrible for Kenya, as tourism contributes some 10% of your GDP. I haven't been to the Mara in nearly 10 years - must get back in the next few years.
I looked into it but its Hellishly Expensive....I think I was quote R 108 000.00 for 4 of us ....for a week
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ULTIMATE KENYA SAFARI
8-Day safari: From R50,157pp
16 - 23 August 2020


Come and experience this unforgettable 8-day safari adventure and enjoy the best of what KENYA offer!! With our safari, we visit the scenic Samburu National Reserve, the Aberdare National Park, the beautiful Lake Naivasha in the Rift Valley, and we witness the Wildebeest Migration on the banks of the Mara River in the Masai Mara National Reserve.
Thats the quote.....100k just for my wife and myself.....absolutely insane.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Sards wrote:I looked into it but its Hellishly Expensive....I think I was quote R 108 000.00 for 4 of us ....for a week
Kenya is a rip-off for tourists. Many see it as a one in a lifetime holiday, and they don't seem to mind paying crazy prices. It doesn't have to be, but you need to know somebody to steer you away from the tourist prices ;)
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Sards wrote:
Vleis wrote:
assfly wrote:
Vleis wrote:I presume that the Mara is empty at the moment?
Totally empty. Great for the animals, this might be the first crossing without the usual chaos of safari cars crowding the river. We even had a small herd of elephants that nearly made it all the way to Nairobi it is so quiet everywhere.
As you say, great for the animals...but terrible for Kenya, as tourism contributes some 10% of your GDP. I haven't been to the Mara in nearly 10 years - must get back in the next few years.
I looked into it but its Hellishly Expensive....I think I was quote R 108 000.00 for 4 of us ....for a week
Bargain! You'll pay at least 50% more traveling there from London.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Sards »

assfly wrote:
Sards wrote:I looked into it but its Hellishly Expensive....I think I was quote R 108 000.00 for 4 of us ....for a week
Kenya is a rip-off for tourists. Many see it as a one in a lifetime holiday, and they don't seem to mind paying crazy prices. It doesn't have to be, but you need to know somebody to steer you away from the tourist prices ;)

Dude...If I did it it would be by balloon....


But its very overpriced.
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sorCrer
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by sorCrer »

Sards wrote:
Vleis wrote:
assfly wrote:
Vleis wrote:I presume that the Mara is empty at the moment?
Totally empty. Great for the animals, this might be the first crossing without the usual chaos of safari cars crowding the river. We even had a small herd of elephants that nearly made it all the way to Nairobi it is so quiet everywhere.
As you say, great for the animals...but terrible for Kenya, as tourism contributes some 10% of your GDP. I haven't been to the Mara in nearly 10 years - must get back in the next few years.
I looked into it but its Hellishly Expensive....I think I was quote R 108 000.00 for 4 of us ....for a week
:lol:
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assfly
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by assfly »

Sards wrote:Dude...If I did it it would be by balloon....
But its very overpriced.
Ja they see foreign currency and the price skyrockets. We've got mates who have lodges in the mara and do ballooning and all that jazz. They've got no problem doing mates rates. It's the travel agents who charge through the roof.

If you want to visit Nairobi National Park the fees are
Citizen - R30
Resident - R155
Tourists - R780

But they're learning the hard way now with no tourists. The private game ranches around Mount Kenya are the best places to go. To be honest there are much better places in Kenya than the Mara, in my opinion.
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