Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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Blake
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Blake »

Average Joe wrote:
Sards wrote:
Average Joe wrote:Probably better to start of with takeaway only at first and later on expanding to sit-in. That way you could put off on the decor a bit until later when you turned a bit of profit. Would be better than to fork out for everything all at once without knowing if it will take or not.

No chance...all in or nothing....cant stand these half pregnant projects.
What half pregnant projects? Anything that's worth spending on needs to pay for itself as soon as possible or it's not worth spending on. You want to build a fully operational restaurant in this volatile times when a food truck is all you need.
I'm with you on this. I'd also go the food truck route if it was my money or just start with a cheap, functional kitchen. Get the food right, and make ordering, payment, delivery slick as possible. Digital marketing will be key.

Then do a food truck with scooters. Move it around Cape Town and announce where you are on a specific day on your social media channels. Order to collect or have it delivered within 5 km of the truck. The day Diablo Burgers roll into your suburb you'll have to try one, because who knows when they'll be rolling by again.

Then you open a nice restaurant. For when customers get cravings but don't know when the truck will come around again. If the food is good enough, they'll be willing to drive and sit down in your flagship restaurant to get one.
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Sards
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Sards »

Blake wrote:
Average Joe wrote:
Sards wrote:
Average Joe wrote:Probably better to start of with takeaway only at first and later on expanding to sit-in. That way you could put off on the decor a bit until later when you turned a bit of profit. Would be better than to fork out for everything all at once without knowing if it will take or not.

No chance...all in or nothing....cant stand these half pregnant projects.
What half pregnant projects? Anything that's worth spending on needs to pay for itself as soon as possible or it's not worth spending on. You want to build a fully operational restaurant in this volatile times when a food truck is all you need.
I'm with you on this. I'd also go the food truck route if it was my money or just start with a cheap, functional kitchen. Get the food right, and make ordering, payment, delivery slick as possible. Digital marketing will be key.

Then do a food truck with scooters. Move it around Cape Town and announce where you are on a specific day on your social media channels. Order to collect or have it delivered within 5 km of the truck. The day Diablo Burgers roll into your suburb you'll have to try one, because who knows when they'll be rolling by again.

Then you open a nice restaurant. For when customers get cravings but don't know when the truck will come around again. If the food is good enough, they'll be willing to drive and sit down in your flagship restaurant to get one.
thats why I am an entrepeneur ....And have been for 33 years. You either do things properly or not at all. I don't even know why I respond. if you are afraid to risk money you are afraid to open your own business and should be employed rather. Thats your nature.

The investment in what I want totals R 290 k for the kitchen equipment....R 150 k for POS and wet and dry works and deposits and another 150k working capital.

that money you should be able to forget about.
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Average Joe
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Average Joe »

Sards wrote:
Blake wrote:
Average Joe wrote:
Sards wrote:
Average Joe wrote:Probably better to start of with takeaway only at first and later on expanding to sit-in. That way you could put off on the decor a bit until later when you turned a bit of profit. Would be better than to fork out for everything all at once without knowing if it will take or not.

No chance...all in or nothing....cant stand these half pregnant projects.
What half pregnant projects? Anything that's worth spending on needs to pay for itself as soon as possible or it's not worth spending on. You want to build a fully operational restaurant in this volatile times when a food truck is all you need.
I'm with you on this. I'd also go the food truck route if it was my money or just start with a cheap, functional kitchen. Get the food right, and make ordering, payment, delivery slick as possible. Digital marketing will be key.

Then do a food truck with scooters. Move it around Cape Town and announce where you are on a specific day on your social media channels. Order to collect or have it delivered within 5 km of the truck. The day Diablo Burgers roll into your suburb you'll have to try one, because who knows when they'll be rolling by again.

Then you open a nice restaurant. For when customers get cravings but don't know when the truck will come around again. If the food is good enough, they'll be willing to drive and sit down in your flagship restaurant to get one.
thats why I am an entrepeneur ....And have been for 33 years. You either do things properly or not at all. I don't even know why I respond. if you are afraid to risk money you are afraid to open your own business and should be employed rather. Thats your nature.
You going to have a fancy restaurant with all the trims in a time were no one is going out to eat? Look boet, if you can make it work then all cred to you. Good luck, hope it's a success. There's many roads to the top, not all of us take the same route.
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Sards
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Sards »

Average Joe wrote: You going to have a fancy restaurant with all the trims in a time were no one is going out to eat? Look boet, if you can make it work then all cred to you. Good luck, hope it's a success. There's many roads to the top, not all of us take the same route.
Take away......not restaurant......

i have been through this discussion before. If I am going to be a fly by night well then going el cheepo is the way. If I want a footprint i want my footprint to be a good one.
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Sards
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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South Africa stage 3 adjustments

you can now go to the movies , have dinner afterwards , go to the Casino where you can spend the night and shag a hooker . wake up and have breakfast whilst having your hair done ..... but you cant visit your friends and ....definitely cannot smoke....
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Blake
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Blake »

Sards wrote:thats why I am an entrepeneur ....And have been for 33 years. You either do things properly or not at all. I don't even know why I respond. if you are afraid to risk money you are afraid to open your own business and should be employed rather. Thats your nature.

The investment in what I want totals R 290 k for the kitchen equipment....R 150 k for POS and wet and dry works and deposits and another 150k working capital.

that money you should be able to forget about.
It's not about losing the money boet, its about getting bang for your buck initially, building a brand quickly and maintaining positive cashflow at the start of a new venture. But hey, you're the super successful entrepreneur so I'm sure you have deep pockets.

Like I said, I wish you all the luck in the world. I really hope you make a success of it.
It's not how I would have done it myself, but I obviously see the market and the opportunity differently to how you see it. Probably a generational thing I guess.

I'll keep a lookout and I'll definitely support you though. I'm very curious to see how it all turns out.
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Sards
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Sards »

Blake wrote:
I'll keep a lookout and I'll definitely support you though. I'm very curious to see how it all turns out.

I am the hold up currently....Steel-line is getting busier and we still need to move some machines from the building we are vacating and lay new electrical cables and and so I am stuck here for this week. And I am all alone...I had 2 women here as admin before....and I HATE ADMIN.
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Blake
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Blake »

Sards wrote:
Blake wrote:
I'll keep a lookout and I'll definitely support you though. I'm very curious to see how it all turns out.

I am the hold up currently....Steel-line is getting busier and we still need to move some machines from the building we are vacating and lay new electrical cables and and so I am stuck here for this week. And I am all alone...I had 2 women here as admin before....and I HATE ADMIN.
Yeah, business is also crazy on my side as well. Our mid-month numbers are almost double what our record month-end numbers were pre-lockdown, but now we are operating with 2/3rds of the staff complement for some processes.

We hadn't planned for growth of that scale for the next 6-8 months. Most of our restart planning assumed a slight drop in demand after lockdown was lifted, so we thought we'd have some room to ease back into things and test out the changes and upgrades we made while we were shut down. Life had other plans...so now it is a mad dash to try and fix this mess.

We are taking a beating on social media...and rightly so. :(
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Sards
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Sards »

Blake wrote:
Sards wrote:
Blake wrote:
I'll keep a lookout and I'll definitely support you though. I'm very curious to see how it all turns out.

I am the hold up currently....Steel-line is getting busier and we still need to move some machines from the building we are vacating and lay new electrical cables and and so I am stuck here for this week. And I am all alone...I had 2 women here as admin before....and I HATE ADMIN.
Yeah, business is also crazy on my side as well. Our mid-month numbers are almost double what our record month-end numbers were pre-lockdown, but now we are operating with 2/3rds of the staff complement for some processes.

We hadn't planned for growth of that scale for the next 6-8 months. Most of our restart planning assumed a slight drop in demand after lockdown was lifted, so we thought we'd have some room to ease back into things and test out the changes and upgrades we made while we were shut down. Life had other plans...so now it is a mad dash to try and fix this mess.

We are taking a beating on social media...and rightly so. :(
Try co-ordinating machine movers....electrician for connections and upgrading DB board...cleaning out old building.....the sooner its all back to normal the better....I dont enjoy being so harrassed.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Sards »

Sauce....appy pie.....any good to build an app for a takeaway
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sorCrer
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by sorCrer »

Sards wrote:Sauce....appy pie.....any good to build an app for a takeaway
Will work. I obviously code the app myself and integrate into the payment gateways and stores ordering and stock control systems like GAAP etc
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Blake
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Blake »

sorCrer wrote:
Sards wrote:Sauce....appy pie.....any good to build an app for a takeaway
Will work. I obviously code the app myself and integrate into the payment gateways and stores ordering and stock control systems like GAAP etc
Building it isn't your problem, getting customers to download and use it is.

Mr. Delivery, Uber Eats and OrderIn might take you for a ride and munch your profits, but honestly, building and rolling out an app is a pretty big undertaking.
When you start out, your challenge is going to be exposure. When I'm looking for takeaways, that's where I browse. I only download restaurant apps (Mugg & Bean, Kauai etc) for their loyalty/rewards programs.

If you aren't planning on getting onboard with them, rather just start with ordering and payment on your website would be my advice. Use it, don't use it.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by OomStruisbaai »

Western Cape peak around the corner

S24
Western Cape clears Covid-19 testing backlog, but cases expected to peak before end of June

The Western Cape government has announced that it has cleared the province's Covid-19 testing backlog.


The announcement, as well as several other significant updates, was revealed on Thursday at a weekly briefing led by Premier Alan Winde.

In recent weeks, questions have been raised about government's testing strategy when it was revealed that there was a testing backlog of over 96 000.


As at 25 May, the Western Cape had a backlog of around 18 000 tests, while the Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng each had backlogs of over 22 000 cases.

Last week, the National Health Laboratory Services told Parliament 105 023 tests were done in the first week of June. This is already almost half of the 232 862 tests that were done in the whole of May and more than April's 94 203 tests.

The briefing also heard that in more than half (52%) of all Covid-19 deaths in the Western Cape the victims had been suffering from diabetes as a comorbidity (see slide).

High blood pressure was associated to 19% of the deaths as a comorbidity, HIV 12%, kidney disease 9%, 4% to previous tuberculosis (TB) suffers and 2% to people who were infected with TB at the time of death.

Western Cape Premier Alan Winde on Tuesday conducted a walk-through of the Cape Town International Convention Centre (CTICC), which has been repurposed as a field hospital to assist medical facilities in the province amid the coronavirus crisis.

In a third major announcement, four Covid-19 patients have died at the new Hospital of Hope, located at the Cape Town International Convention Centre, said Dr Keith Cloete, head of department in the Western Cape Department of Health.

Cloete said there had been a total of 88 admissions to the field hospital, with 57 having been discharged.

slide 1 of 1
At the new Covid-19 hospital in Khayelitsha, there have been eight deaths - out of 72 admissions, with 36 patients discharged.

On the so-called "doubling time", spoken about by President Cyril Ramaphosa during his address to the nation on Wednesday night, the briefing led by Winde heard the province uses the death rate as the basis for its own "doubling time" - as it believed this was a more accurate measure than the number of cases, which depend on testing rates.

In the Western Cape, the current death "doubling time" was eight to 10 days. The premier's briefing heard this was low compared to several other countries such as the UK and Italy.

There was some indication the doubling time was slowing down but there were also some delays in the reporting of deaths, said the Western Cape Department of Health's Professor Mary-Ann Davies.

Winde said everyone shared the responsibility to "slow the spread ... as we're getting closer and closer to the peak". This was now expected as early as next week, said Winde.

Asked about the availability of dexamethasone, which has been reported to show positive results for patients either on ventilators or oxygen, Cloete confirmed the province had supplies of "injectable" forms of the drug, but not oral, and was "looking at availability".

On alcohol-related cases in hospitals, since alcohol sales were unbanned under Level 3, Cloete announced there had been a total of "112 additional admissions at the five central hospitals we are tracking the data in".

These cases were "competing for beds", with Covid-19 cases.

Winde said alcohol-related incidents - whether accidental, stabbings, blunt instrument-related trauma, firearms, burns, motor-vehicle incidents - were "eating into those extra healthcare facilities we have put aside for Covid-19" cases.

The province was monitoring alcohol-related trauma cases closely, and if these incidents escalated "we will have to come in with much stronger requests", Winde warned.

He had also requested the police and City of Cape Town to focus on adequate deployment of police resources to crime hotspots and for the assistance of Covid-19 plans.

Winde praised the humanitarian response from "thousands of NGOs" which had carried by far the bulk of this responsibility.

He hoped the national relaxations on certain sectors - including tourism and personal care - would alleviate the humanitarian crisis, from new income.

Meanwhile, Cloete said the province was working closely with Afrox regarding oxygen supply.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by OomStruisbaai »

sorCrer wrote:
Sards wrote:Sauce....appy pie.....any good to build an app for a takeaway
Will work. I obviously code the app myself and integrate into the payment gateways and stores ordering and stock control systems like GAAP etc
To late, restuarants to open soon
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by OomStruisbaai »

Got the good news my contract will be extended, 40% pay cut. How blessed can one be.
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Chilli
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Chilli »

OomPB wrote:Got the good news my contract will be extended, 40% pay cut. How blessed can one be.
Eish Oom.
At least you have a job.
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Rinkals
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Rinkals »

Blake wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Sards wrote:Sauce....appy pie.....any good to build an app for a takeaway
Will work. I obviously code the app myself and integrate into the payment gateways and stores ordering and stock control systems like GAAP etc
Building it isn't your problem, getting customers to download and use it is.

Mr. Delivery, Uber Eats and OrderIn might take you for a ride and munch your profits, but honestly, building and rolling out an app is a pretty big undertaking.
When you start out, your challenge is going to be exposure. When I'm looking for takeaways, that's where I browse. I only download restaurant apps (Mugg & Bean, Kauai etc) for their loyalty/rewards programs.

If you aren't planning on getting onboard with them, rather just start with ordering and payment on your website would be my advice. Use it, don't use it.
I'm sorta with this.

Maybe youngsters are different, but I've got far too much shit on my phone and any app that doesn't get significant use gets canned.

Building an app seems a lot of work for little return (apart from Sards getting to impress people).

A slick website with a simple front end would make more sense.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by sorCrer »

Last month I sold 15000 orders and R4 million in sales for which I take 5%. Uber markup between 20-30% and Mr Delivery is also 15-25%.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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OomPB wrote:Got the good news my contract will be extended, 40% pay cut. How blessed can one be.
Good news oom. Hopefully the salary will pick up soon.
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Chilli
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

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sorCrer wrote:Last month I sold 15000 orders and R4 million in sales for which I take 5%. Uber markup between 20-30% and Mr Delivery is also 15-25%.
Average of R270 per order? That is nice.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Chilli »

Sauce, what is your chain of food establishments called?
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by sorCrer »

Chilli wrote:Sauce, what is your chain of food establishments called?
DelForno
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Sards »

New beginnings...my machines are moved...now we can start all over again.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by troglodiet »

sorCrer wrote:
Chilli wrote:Sauce, what is your chain of food establishments called?
DelForno

I'm posting this literally 5 minutes after eating a pizza from them.

Branch less than 1km from where I stay currently (Ruimsig, Roodepoort).




If I may ask, do you own some franchises or the company?
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by sorCrer »

troglodiet wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Chilli wrote:Sauce, what is your chain of food establishments called?
DelForno

I'm posting this literally 5 minutes after eating a pizza from them.

Branch less than 1km from where I stay currently (Ruimsig, Roodepoort).




If I may ask, do you own some franchises or the company?
Just the software. I know the owner of Ruimsig well. He owns Little Falls as well.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by troglodiet »

sorCrer wrote:
troglodiet wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Chilli wrote:Sauce, what is your chain of food establishments called?
DelForno

I'm posting this literally 5 minutes after eating a pizza from them.

Branch less than 1km from where I stay currently (Ruimsig, Roodepoort).




If I may ask, do you own some franchises or the company?
Just the software. I know the owner of Ruimsig well. He owns Little Falls as well.

My mistake, I stay in Little Falls. That's the branch literally around the corner from us.


I used to stay in Ruimsig before moving in with my brother.

My mind's a mess tonight :blush:
ox wagon
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by ox wagon »

Calculus wrote:
ox wagon wrote:
Calculus wrote:I’m quoting the NYT to point out that official American figures are inaccurate and that an entirely accurate figure will anyway never be known. Not that I think it matters that much.
This is the old relativist Soviet trick. "Comrade we both will never know the absolute total truth, our Gulag system and your prison system are the same brother". But hang on, that's bollocks isn't it. There's an order of magnitude difference in the extent, the Chinese under count could be as much as x10.
Calculus wrote:this is not quite true, the Chinese the National Health Commission released figures yesterday of 62 new cases of which 59 were imported. IIRC by far most of the imported cases will be from Chinese people coming back rather than foreigners. The CCP are certainly trumpeting their own horn when it comes to their response to the pandemic but they are acutely aware of the possibly of the outbreak reemerging.
Their official position is it's all under control basically no new cases, and the new cases there are can be blamed on foreigners. You're not disputing that.

Lets sit back and see if they have another massive outbreak then.
that's what we are all doing
Time for a recap on this one.

Turns out I was right back at the start of April wasn't I? The Chinese are full of shit, just lied their way through all of this. The whole world copied their lockdown thinking it could work, various outbreaks in China since they "defeated" the virus with a lockdown, huge one underway in their capital very likely under reported by x10 as they always do.

SA's economy now totally f**ked for potentially a decade, doing something that provides no benefit and cannot stop the virus (how on earth can hiding stop a virus?). ANC now openly using it as an excuse to push BEE even harder and who knows what else, NDZ said the other day (in an argument in court ffs) that the cigarette ban wasn't damaging because it grew sales in the criminal black market. None of this has anything to do with the virus.

In summary for probably the last time (forum being nuked and all), Ox was right.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by handyman »

Ox always makes a lot of sense when he's not posting about the saarks.
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Sandstorm »

handyman wrote:Ox always makes a lot of sense when he's not posting about the saarks.
Ox posted that? I thought I was reading another of Sard’s moans about the lockdown.
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Post by handyman »

Sandstorm wrote:
handyman wrote:Ox always makes a lot of sense when he's not posting about the saarks.
Ox posted that? I thought I was reading another of Sard’s moans about the lockdown.
Can't compare Ox to tards. Ox does not change his opinion every 5 minutes when his wife tells him to.
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Post by Chilli »

Sandstorm wrote:
handyman wrote:Ox always makes a lot of sense when he's not posting about the saarks.
Ox posted that? I thought I was reading another of Sard’s moans about the lockdown.
Sards is an Ox multi? :shock: :shock: :shock: Or the other way around?
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Chilli »

https://www.news24.com/news24/southafri ... e-20200623
Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs Minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma does not have the reasons why the Covid-19 pandemic was declared a national disaster available.

The "scientific rationale" relied on to ban the sale of tobacco products is also not available, nor the reasons why alcohol sales are allowed under Level 3 lockdown.


This according to Dlamini-Zuma's recent written replies to questions posed by opposition MPs which were published in the past week.

DA MP Gizella Opperman asked her: "What are the reasons that informed the decision to declare Covid-19 a national disaster instead of a provincial or local disaster and what data was used to classify the disaster in terms of the Disaster Management Act, Act 57 of 2002?


Dlamini-Zuma's full response read: "The reasons that informed the decision to declare Covid-19 a national disaster will be submitted to the honourable member as soon as the detailed information is available. Thank you."

DA MP Zakhele Mbhele asked: "With reference to her assertion that the sale and use of tobacco products is associated with increased risk of the spread of SARS-CoV-2, which she used to justify the prohibition of tobacco product sales, what is the scientific rationale and empirical basis for the prohibition; whether she and/or her department assessed the countervailing hypothesis that nicotine actually minimises the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection, as suggested by data showing a disproportionate under-representation of habitual smokers in infection cases; if not, why not; if so, what conclusions have been drawn in this regard?"

He received the exact same response as Opperman.

"The information requested by the Honourable Member is not readily available in the department. The information will be submitted to the Honourable Member as soon as it is available. Thank you."
Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma
This is not the first time Dlamini-Zuma dodged a written question about the controversial tobacco ban.

Last month, DA MP Dean Macpherson asked her in a written question for information on the public submissions her department had received and relied on to make changes to the regulations when the lockdown was lowered to Level 4.

Her answer read: "The information requested by the honourable member is not readily available in the department. The information will be submitted to the honourable member as soon as it is available."

While Dlamini-Zuma's department appears not to have the information available when opposition MPs asks for it, they have managed to find it when she filed responding papers to the legal challenges against the regulations, including the cigarette ban.

On 29 April, she shocked the country, especially smokers, when she announced the cigarette sales ban would remain in place during Level 4 of the lockdown.

This, days after President Cyril Ramaphosa said cigarette sales would be allowed on that level.

Dlamini-Zuma said the Cabinet had decided to rescind its decision to allow for the sale of cigarettes after it considered 2 000 public submissions supporting the ban.

She argued while Covid-19 was a relatively new virus, early studies supported the view using tobacco products not only increased the risk of catching it, it also put people at risk of contracting a more serious form of it.

The Fair Trade Independent Tobacco Association (FITA) served the government with court papers in early May to challenge the ban.

After Dlamini-Zuma filed responding papers, Fita claimed according to its count, there were 1 535 public submissions, of which 47.2% had nothing to do with cigarettes, 23.3% were in favour of the ban being lifted and 29.6% wanted the ban to remain.

The DA filed a complaint against her at Parliament's ethics committee in this regard.

This past weekend, News24 reported about Dlamini-Zuma's affidavit that was recently lodged in another case, the one brought by British American Tobacco South Africa and other tobacco groupings to have the ban undone.

READ | Cigarette sales ban: DA labels Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma a 'liar', says Ramaphosa should 'fire' her

She has also found the information available when she defended the tobacco ban during an oral question session in a virtual sitting of the National Assembly.

Misleading Parliament is a violation of the Code of Ethical Conduct and Disclosure of Members' Interests for Assembly and Permanent Council Members.

In February 2018, Public Protector Busisiwe Mkhwebane found Lynne Brown, then minister of state-owned enterprises, had "inadvertently misled Parliament" in a written reply to a parliamentary question from December 2016 about whether Eskom had paid money to Trillian.

Parliamentary questions are considered an essential mechanism to hold ministers to account. The DA has in the past also complained about Dlamini-Zuma not responding to questions, using the unavailability of the requested information as an excuse.

Dlamini-Zuma, who plays a key role in the government's response to the Covid-19 pandemic, has used this excuse in response to several questions posed to her which has been published since Thursday. In some cases, she referred the member who asked the question to another department.

In one case, DA MP in the National Council of Provinces Mlindi Nhlanhla managed to elicit more than the standard response. He asked whether ministers are allowed to change any lockdown regulations if it affects their department.

"The Disaster Management Act empowers the minister of cooperative governance and traditional affairs, after consulting the Cabinet, to make regulations or issue directions or authorise the issue of directions. The position or relevant details will be submitted to the honourable member as soon as they are compiled. Thank you," read Dlamini-Zuma's full answer.

Here are some of the questions she dodged:

Gizella Opperman:

Whether she has found there is any regulation that has been imposed by the National Coronavirus Command Council since 26 March 2020 as a measure to curb the spread of the Covid-19 pandemic that suspended or limited fundamental human rights; if not, how was this conclusion reached; if so, what are the relevant details?
What steps were taken to ensure that regulations and/or measures to curb the spread of the Covid-19 pandemic that is premised on international best practice were adjusted to meet the existing challenges in the republic, in particular the risks of famine among persons who have lost their income and access food?
What are the full relevant details of how the existing real-time information measures up with the initial projections or models upon which a national disaster was declared and a national lockdown to curb the spread of the virus was imposed and adjustments have been made to the initial strategies to align them with reality?
What are the reasons that the curbing measures are applied wholesale and throughout the republic while certain provinces such as the Northern Cape have clearly shown very small increases and a high recovery rate in infections?
FF Plus MP Michal Groenewald:

Whether, regarding the fact that most municipalities do not apply the principle of no-work-no-pay, resulting in unprotected illegal strikes, the government engaged with the trade unions to protect the taxpayers and ensure that they receive value for money for taxes and rates that they pay by allowing municipal employees to rather claim from the Unemployment Insurance Fund during the period of lockdown to curb the spread of Covid-19 in line with other citizens who are on a no-work-no-pay arrangement?
Whether her department purchased any goods and/or services below the amount of R500 000 connected to the Covid-19 pandemic and whether there was any deviation from the standard supply chain management procedures in the specified transactions? (The FF Plus asked similar questions of other ministers, who generally have had the information available).
Mlindi Nhanha:

Whether officials in her department over 60 years of age are still allowed to work at the department's offices?
DA MP Carin Visser:

What actions are her department taking to help municipalities indebted to Eskom to ensure a stable electricity supply to its residents?
DA MP George Michalakis:

Which municipality is regarded as the capital of the Republic of South Africa?
EFF MP Kenny Motsamai:

Whether she has been informed that the residents of Moeka Village in North West report crimes to the Temba police station in Tshwane?
EFF MP Sam Zandamela:

How will she ensure that the funds allocated to municipalities are used for its intended purposes?
DA MP Mbulelo Sileko:

Whether any municipalities adopted unfunded budgets for the 2020/2021 year?
Whether any municipalities are formulating economic recovery strategies for the aftermath of the Covid-19 pandemic? How the additional R20 billion funding for municipalities will be allocated?
EFF MP Moletsane Moletsanse:

What informed the sale of alcohol during Level 3 of the lockdown?
DA MP Sonja Boshoff:

Whether schools with boarding facilities will be used as quarantine sites in Mpumalanga?
EFF MP Andrew Arnolds:

Whether her department will take any corrective steps to assist municipalities facing collapse before the lockdown?
ox wagon
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by ox wagon »

Sardy is a legendary poster. I formed the "brains trust" with him and Nipper, Nipper stormed out for reasons. Sardy remained in the programme. Sardy made crazy calls that paid off like backing AE. Nipper, without the "brains trust", unfortunately failed.

Not surprising Sardy got the lockdown right, it was a "brains trust" move.
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sorCrer
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by sorCrer »

ox wagon wrote: In summary for probably the last time (forum being nuked and all), Ox was right.

Ox stamped and screamed that everyone must stay in-f**king-side please, like a 2 year old. Ox was right.
ox wagon
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by ox wagon »

sorCrer wrote:Ox stamped and screamed that everyone must stay in-f**king-side please, like a 2 year old. Ox was right.
That's not true. I made a few posts at the start telling people to "sit on the couch". They were very funny.
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Chilli
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Chilli »

ox wagon wrote:
sorCrer wrote:Ox stamped and screamed that everyone must stay in-f**king-side please, like a 2 year old. Ox was right.
That's not true. I made a few posts at the start telling people to "sit on the couch". They were very funny.
Stay in side+ Sit on the couch=Lockdown of sorts
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Rinkals
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by Rinkals »

Chilli wrote:https://www.news24.com/news24/southafri ... e-20200623
Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs Minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma does not have the reasons why the Covid-19 pandemic was declared a national disaster available.

The "scientific rationale" relied on to ban the sale of tobacco products is also not available, nor the reasons why alcohol sales are allowed under Level 3 lockdown.


This according to Dlamini-Zuma's recent written replies to questions posed by opposition MPs which were published in the past week.

DA MP Gizella Opperman asked her: "What are the reasons that informed the decision to declare Covid-19 a national disaster instead of a provincial or local disaster and what data was used to classify the disaster in terms of the Disaster Management Act, Act 57 of 2002?


Dlamini-Zuma's full response read: "The reasons that informed the decision to declare Covid-19 a national disaster will be submitted to the honourable member as soon as the detailed information is available. Thank you."

DA MP Zakhele Mbhele asked: "With reference to her assertion that the sale and use of tobacco products is associated with increased risk of the spread of SARS-CoV-2, which she used to justify the prohibition of tobacco product sales, what is the scientific rationale and empirical basis for the prohibition; whether she and/or her department assessed the countervailing hypothesis that nicotine actually minimises the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection, as suggested by data showing a disproportionate under-representation of habitual smokers in infection cases; if not, why not; if so, what conclusions have been drawn in this regard?"

He received the exact same response as Opperman.

"The information requested by the Honourable Member is not readily available in the department. The information will be submitted to the Honourable Member as soon as it is available. Thank you."
Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma
This is not the first time Dlamini-Zuma dodged a written question about the controversial tobacco ban.

Last month, DA MP Dean Macpherson asked her in a written question for information on the public submissions her department had received and relied on to make changes to the regulations when the lockdown was lowered to Level 4.

Her answer read: "The information requested by the honourable member is not readily available in the department. The information will be submitted to the honourable member as soon as it is available."

While Dlamini-Zuma's department appears not to have the information available when opposition MPs asks for it, they have managed to find it when she filed responding papers to the legal challenges against the regulations, including the cigarette ban.

On 29 April, she shocked the country, especially smokers, when she announced the cigarette sales ban would remain in place during Level 4 of the lockdown.

This, days after President Cyril Ramaphosa said cigarette sales would be allowed on that level.

Dlamini-Zuma said the Cabinet had decided to rescind its decision to allow for the sale of cigarettes after it considered 2 000 public submissions supporting the ban.

She argued while Covid-19 was a relatively new virus, early studies supported the view using tobacco products not only increased the risk of catching it, it also put people at risk of contracting a more serious form of it.

The Fair Trade Independent Tobacco Association (FITA) served the government with court papers in early May to challenge the ban.

After Dlamini-Zuma filed responding papers, Fita claimed according to its count, there were 1 535 public submissions, of which 47.2% had nothing to do with cigarettes, 23.3% were in favour of the ban being lifted and 29.6% wanted the ban to remain.

The DA filed a complaint against her at Parliament's ethics committee in this regard.

This past weekend, News24 reported about Dlamini-Zuma's affidavit that was recently lodged in another case, the one brought by British American Tobacco South Africa and other tobacco groupings to have the ban undone.

READ | Cigarette sales ban: DA labels Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma a 'liar', says Ramaphosa should 'fire' her

She has also found the information available when she defended the tobacco ban during an oral question session in a virtual sitting of the National Assembly.

Misleading Parliament is a violation of the Code of Ethical Conduct and Disclosure of Members' Interests for Assembly and Permanent Council Members.

In February 2018, Public Protector Busisiwe Mkhwebane found Lynne Brown, then minister of state-owned enterprises, had "inadvertently misled Parliament" in a written reply to a parliamentary question from December 2016 about whether Eskom had paid money to Trillian.

Parliamentary questions are considered an essential mechanism to hold ministers to account. The DA has in the past also complained about Dlamini-Zuma not responding to questions, using the unavailability of the requested information as an excuse.

Dlamini-Zuma, who plays a key role in the government's response to the Covid-19 pandemic, has used this excuse in response to several questions posed to her which has been published since Thursday. In some cases, she referred the member who asked the question to another department.

In one case, DA MP in the National Council of Provinces Mlindi Nhlanhla managed to elicit more than the standard response. He asked whether ministers are allowed to change any lockdown regulations if it affects their department.

"The Disaster Management Act empowers the minister of cooperative governance and traditional affairs, after consulting the Cabinet, to make regulations or issue directions or authorise the issue of directions. The position or relevant details will be submitted to the honourable member as soon as they are compiled. Thank you," read Dlamini-Zuma's full answer.

Here are some of the questions she dodged:

Gizella Opperman:

Whether she has found there is any regulation that has been imposed by the National Coronavirus Command Council since 26 March 2020 as a measure to curb the spread of the Covid-19 pandemic that suspended or limited fundamental human rights; if not, how was this conclusion reached; if so, what are the relevant details?
What steps were taken to ensure that regulations and/or measures to curb the spread of the Covid-19 pandemic that is premised on international best practice were adjusted to meet the existing challenges in the republic, in particular the risks of famine among persons who have lost their income and access food?
What are the full relevant details of how the existing real-time information measures up with the initial projections or models upon which a national disaster was declared and a national lockdown to curb the spread of the virus was imposed and adjustments have been made to the initial strategies to align them with reality?
What are the reasons that the curbing measures are applied wholesale and throughout the republic while certain provinces such as the Northern Cape have clearly shown very small increases and a high recovery rate in infections?
FF Plus MP Michal Groenewald:

Whether, regarding the fact that most municipalities do not apply the principle of no-work-no-pay, resulting in unprotected illegal strikes, the government engaged with the trade unions to protect the taxpayers and ensure that they receive value for money for taxes and rates that they pay by allowing municipal employees to rather claim from the Unemployment Insurance Fund during the period of lockdown to curb the spread of Covid-19 in line with other citizens who are on a no-work-no-pay arrangement?
Whether her department purchased any goods and/or services below the amount of R500 000 connected to the Covid-19 pandemic and whether there was any deviation from the standard supply chain management procedures in the specified transactions? (The FF Plus asked similar questions of other ministers, who generally have had the information available).
Mlindi Nhanha:

Whether officials in her department over 60 years of age are still allowed to work at the department's offices?
DA MP Carin Visser:

What actions are her department taking to help municipalities indebted to Eskom to ensure a stable electricity supply to its residents?
DA MP George Michalakis:

Which municipality is regarded as the capital of the Republic of South Africa?
EFF MP Kenny Motsamai:

Whether she has been informed that the residents of Moeka Village in North West report crimes to the Temba police station in Tshwane?
EFF MP Sam Zandamela:

How will she ensure that the funds allocated to municipalities are used for its intended purposes?
DA MP Mbulelo Sileko:

Whether any municipalities adopted unfunded budgets for the 2020/2021 year?
Whether any municipalities are formulating economic recovery strategies for the aftermath of the Covid-19 pandemic? How the additional R20 billion funding for municipalities will be allocated?
EFF MP Moletsane Moletsanse:

What informed the sale of alcohol during Level 3 of the lockdown?
DA MP Sonja Boshoff:

Whether schools with boarding facilities will be used as quarantine sites in Mpumalanga?
EFF MP Andrew Arnolds:

Whether her department will take any corrective steps to assist municipalities facing collapse before the lockdown?
I think Dlamini-Zuma only has complete distain for opinions other than her own.

I am reminded of Donald Trump's response in the Scottish Parliament when he was asked about "expert opinion" in regard to wind turbines and he said he didn't need any because he, himself was the foremost expert on wind turbine technology.

I listened to her crazy justification of the cigarette ban on the basis that cigarettes are shared and the virus can be passed on by saliva. What she completely disregarded was that, by making cigarettes more expensive, she made it much more likely that they would be shared.

Thank f uck Ramaphosa won.
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handyman
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by handyman »

ox wagon wrote:Sardy is a legendary poster. I formed the "brains trust" with him and Nipper, Nipper stormed out for reasons. Sardy remained in the programme. Sardy made crazy calls that paid off like backing AE. Nipper, without the "brains trust", unfortunately failed.

Not surprising Sardy got the lockdown right, it was a "brains trust" move.
Well, he must have called it right at least once, because every 5 minutes he had a different opinion about it.
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sorCrer
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by sorCrer »

Chilli wrote:
ox wagon wrote:
sorCrer wrote:Ox stamped and screamed that everyone must stay in-f**king-side please, like a 2 year old. Ox was right.
That's not true. I made a few posts at the start telling people to "sit on the couch". They were very funny.
Stay in side+ Sit on the couch=Lockdown of sorts
It's OX FFS, he has a better side step than Kolbe who by the way Ox didn't want near our Boks. :nod:
ox wagon
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Re: Coronavirus update - South Africa progress

Post by ox wagon »

sorCrer wrote:It's OX FFS, he has a better side step than Kolbe who by the way Ox didn't want near our Boks. :nod:
You need the vision to have a side step, see the gap, anticipate the movement of players around you.

For example, my vision tells me you are back on SA Twitter. I could always see you coming kms away, as soon as I entered any website.
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