Planet Rugby Forum

The Orange sex offender says it's a cure.

That confirms it's just bullshit some click baiter made up.

If the Orange f**king moron is good for something it's as a fact checker. If he says it, it's not true.

Oh well.

Puma wrote:Not a scientist here, but I can see several repetitions between both maps.

Also, (going back to a previously explored issue) isn't there a coincidence that the same countries with low COVID incidence have the highest number of pirates???

message #2527204 wrote:

Fat Albert wrote:I, like Dr Spencer was taken with the inverse correlation between number of confirmed cases of Covid-19 and the prevalence of malaria (= high % of population ingesting chloroquine). Of course, correlation does not mean causation, but it's pretty convincing.

Having read the papers it's also clear that chloroquine is effective in both prevention and in reducing recovery time as the closing paragraph of the Nature article summary states

Our findings reveal that remdesivir and chloroquine are highly effective in the control of 2019-nCoV infection in vitro. Since these compounds have been used in human patients with a safety track record and shown to be effective against various ailments, we suggest that they should be assessed in human patients suffering from the novel coronavirus disease.

My take is it works, it's safe (in as much as any approved drug is safe), it's cheap and is commonly available.

My question is why hasn't mass distribution occured?

I think chloroquine has side effects and probably more so in those older people more vulnerable to the bad corona virus. Pregnant and breast feeding women, those with heart conditions, too.
I'm guessing it also requires a doctor's prescription too because of the above. And 80-90% of people appear to only get a mild form of the disease.

Apparently it does but hydroxycholorquine is easier on the patient.

zt1903 wrote:

clementinfrance wrote:An extrovert French doctor/biologist has put forward this "solution".

He tested 24 patients, those with chloroquine had a 75% recovery, those without only 10% recovery.

I'd be vary wary of any "miracle" solution myself.

My brother took malaria drugs years ago before going to SE asia and said he would rather risk COVID-19 than these kindds of drugs...

That this one:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/186Bel9 ... HnGbj/view

Yes.

Seems it was 36 patients (control and treated)....

clementinfrance wrote:

zt1903 wrote:

clementinfrance wrote:An extrovert French doctor/biologist has put forward this "solution".

He tested 24 patients, those with chloroquine had a 75% recovery, those without only 10% recovery.

I'd be vary wary of any "miracle" solution myself.

My brother took malaria drugs years ago before going to SE asia and said he would rather risk COVID-19 than these kindds of drugs...

That this one:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/186Bel9 ... HnGbj/view

Yes.

Seems it was 36 patients (control and treated)....

Even if it increases the recovery rate of those seriously ill patients who don't have underlying issues and can have it prescribed, then it could be a game changer as far as health service resources go?

So 2 pages to realise that few people get flu like viruses in the hot humid tropics. I'm moving to Port Moresby tomorrow by jetski.

It appears that South Korea & China have been routinely treating seriously ill Covid-19 patients with Chloroquine or Hydoroxochloroquine since February.

There are double figure studies complete or under way in China, this news article is dated February 23

This may be a factor in explaining why South Korea's Covid-19 mortality is 0.5% while Italy's is 4.7%

This could be big news for Africa.

CrazyIslander wrote:

Puma wrote:Not a scientist here, but I can see several repetitions between both maps.

Also, (going back to a previously explored issue) isn't there a coincidence that the same countries with low COVID incidence have the highest number of pirates???

Puma’s a navy fella, isn’t he? He’d be in a good position to know about the current piracy league table.

But if he’s right, does this mean the FSM is somehow implicated in all of this?

Hmmm, somewhat more tongue in cheek

Green Tea EGCG & Quercetin are also zinc ionophores

Taking chelated Zinc 25 mg/day followed by Green Tea may also have a negative effect on Covid-19 replication

I can't find any studies, mind

Petej wrote:

Blake wrote:

Ali's Choice wrote:Maybe it's because countries that have high rates of malaria are generally really poor, and poor countries aren't able to test effectively or widely for COVID 19?

This...but also those countries are also not main transit hubs for air travel out of China and Europe.

Covid-19 Models based purely on flight routes and frequency yielded exactly these results with sub-Saharan Africa and South America being the last places to be hit. Unfortunately, once they are hit, they will have some of the worst infrastructure to deal with the problem

That being said, I really hope there is something to this claim. It will be the best news since this shit started. Hope the trials go well

Also India and Africa have younger demographics which should help them a lot. median age italy 45.5 uk 40.5 India 28.1

That should impact the mortality rate, not the infection rate...unless the infections are so mild that they go untested/unreported.

Fat Albert wrote:It appears that South Korea & China have been routinely treating seriously ill Covid-19 patients with Chloroquine or Hydoroxochloroquine since February.

There are double figure studies complete or under way in China, this news article is dated February 23

This may be a factor in explaining why South Korea's Covid-19 mortality is 0.5% while Italy's is 4.7%

It shouldn't affect mortality rate enormously if I understand it correctly. In Italy they're saying that very few are dying that don't have underlying health issues.
Lots with underlying health issues are recovering from mild symptoms, you'd hope.
What it might do is speed up recovery from the pneumonia, and prevent some requiring ventilation? Both very good, if true.

We're starting to see the virus take hold in more malarial countries now.

Additionally, not sure hydrochloroquine is the answer here. The guy in charge of a New York hospital's response to COVID-19 says here http://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-595/ that they're using it less now as it doesn't seem to help much.

JM2K6 wrote:We're starting to see the virus take hold in more malarial countries now.

Additionally, not sure hydrochloroquine is the answer here. The guy in charge of a New York hospital's response to COVID-19 says here http://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-595/ that they're using it less now as it doesn't seem to help much.

Green tea it is then.

Didn't they say that anti malarials were only effective in early stages of diagnosis and not effective if the patient is in advanced stage. It's certain immunosuppressant drugs that's needed to stop cytokine storm for patients in advanced stage. One drug the HSE is looking at is tocilizumab

iarmhiman wrote:Didn't they say that anti malarials were only effective in early stages of diagnosis and not effective if the patient is in advanced stage. It's certain immunosuppressant drugs that's needed to stop cytokine storm for patients in advanced stage. One drug the HSE is looking at is tocilizumab

He mentions tocilizumab as being useful, reckons it's doing some good based on the bloodwork.

JM2K6 wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:Didn't they say that anti malarials were only effective in early stages of diagnosis and not effective if the patient is in advanced stage. It's certain immunosuppressant drugs that's needed to stop cytokine storm for patients in advanced stage. One drug the HSE is looking at is tocilizumab

He mentions tocilizumab as being useful, reckons it's doing some good based on the bloodwork.

You would imagine this will be the drug used as it's the cytokines that are killing the patients by attacking the lungs in response to the covid 19 infection.

JM2K6 wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:Didn't they say that anti malarials were only effective in early stages of diagnosis and not effective if the patient is in advanced stage. It's certain immunosuppressant drugs that's needed to stop cytokine storm for patients in advanced stage. One drug the HSE is looking at is tocilizumab

He mentions tocilizumab as being useful, reckons it's doing some good based on the bloodwork.

It's also fuggin' expensive, about 20 times more than Hydoroxochloroquine. Good night, Third World.

assfly wrote:This could be big news for Africa.

Well unfortunately in South Africa "plasmoquine" and "nivaquine" which is the chloroquine trade names is allready out of stock from the wholesalers and we don't have hydroxychloroquine registered in South Africa yet.

c69 wrote:Carbocysteine and Azithromycin may have a role to play as well.

You mean acetyl/corbocysteine and Azithromycin in the treatment of patients suffering from viral/bacterial and mixed pneumonia? What are the Doctors prescribing in the UK when Covid patients get hospitalized with pneumonia brought on by covid-19?

Some suspicious things going on with big pharma and chloroquine

Lemoentjie wrote:Some suspicious things going on with big pharma and chloroquine

Difficult to say,I think the pharmaceutical companies are prioritising the harder hit countries first possibly,I'm just guessing though.The normal flu vaccines "vaxigrip","influvac" and vaxigrip tetra are also out of stock due to the companies also prioritising covid-19 hotspots.

doodles.dude wrote:

Lemoentjie wrote:Some suspicious things going on with big pharma and chloroquine

Difficult to say,I think the pharmaceutical companies are prioritising the harder hit countries first possibly,I'm just guessing though.The normal flu vaccines "vaxigrip","influvac" and vaxigrip tetra are also out of stock due to the companies also prioritising covid-19 hotspots.

I guess the worst of the curve will also coincide with seasonal flu in the SH?

message #2527204 wrote:

doodles.dude wrote:

Lemoentjie wrote:Some suspicious things going on with big pharma and chloroquine

Difficult to say,I think the pharmaceutical companies are prioritising the harder hit countries first possibly,I'm just guessing though.The normal flu vaccines "vaxigrip","influvac" and vaxigrip tetra are also out of stock due to the companies also prioritising covid-19 hotspots.

I guess the worst of the curve will also coincide with seasonal flu in the SH?

Yes, that is a fear many have that we could have winter conditions during the June-August period increasing the rate of infections

Fat Albert wrote:I, like Dr Spencer was taken with the inverse correlation between number of confirmed cases of Covid-19 and the prevalence of malaria (= high % of population ingesting chloroquine). Of course, correlation does not mean causation, but it's pretty convincing.

Having read the papers it's also clear that chloroquine is effective in both prevention and in reducing recovery time as the closing paragraph of the Nature article summary states

Our findings reveal that remdesivir and chloroquine are highly effective in the control of 2019-nCoV infection in vitro. Since these compounds have been used in human patients with a safety track record and shown to be effective against various ailments, we suggest that they should be assessed in human patients suffering from the novel coronavirus disease.

My take is it works, it's safe (in as much as any approved drug is safe), it's cheap and is commonly available.

My question is why hasn't mass distribution occured?

The bolded part is important.

I was actually talking with a colleague on Friday about whether or not there is any data looking at correlating patients who take hydroxychloroquine and Covid-19 severity. I think the group to look at is those in high incidence areas who might take hydroxychloroquine to combat autoimmune diseases like Lupus or RA.

iarmhiman wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:Didn't they say that anti malarials were only effective in early stages of diagnosis and not effective if the patient is in advanced stage. It's certain immunosuppressant drugs that's needed to stop cytokine storm for patients in advanced stage. One drug the HSE is looking at is tocilizumab

He mentions tocilizumab as being useful, reckons it's doing some good based on the bloodwork.

You would imagine this will be the drug used as it's the cytokines that are killing the patients by attacking the lungs in response to the covid 19 infection.

Just for some clarification here. The cytokines are not attacking the lungs. It is certain cytokines that are problematic because they are the ones that act on signaling pathways that recruit problematic immune cells (eosinophils, neutrophils, macrophages) to the lung. It is these cells that can cause direct or secondary damage.

puku wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:Didn't they say that anti malarials were only effective in early stages of diagnosis and not effective if the patient is in advanced stage. It's certain immunosuppressant drugs that's needed to stop cytokine storm for patients in advanced stage. One drug the HSE is looking at is tocilizumab

He mentions tocilizumab as being useful, reckons it's doing some good based on the bloodwork.

You would imagine this will be the drug used as it's the cytokines that are killing the patients by attacking the lungs in response to the covid 19 infection.

Just for some clarification here. The cytokines are not attacking the lungs. It is certain cytokines that are problematic because they are the ones that act on signaling pathways that recruit problematic immune cells (eosinophils, neutrophils, macrophages) to the lung. It is these cells that can cause direct or secondary damage.

Cheers

FDA Authorises Chloroquin & Hydroxychloroquin for use in Covid-19 treatment/prevention.

Our government knew it worked back in February when they banned the drugs export, the only thing preventing a conspiracy theory is that they didn't give it to Boris...

Oh Wait

Fat Albert wrote:
FDA Authorises Chloroquin & Hydroxychloroquin for use in Covid-19 treatment/prevention.

Our government knew it worked back in February when they banned the drugs export, the only thing preventing a conspiracy theory is that they didn't give it to Boris...

Oh Wait

Sounds like a live mass clinical trial ordered by the Trump. Could be disastrous.

message #2527204 wrote:

Fat Albert wrote:
FDA Authorises Chloroquin & Hydroxychloroquin for use in Covid-19 treatment/prevention.

Our government knew it worked back in February when they banned the drugs export, the only thing preventing a conspiracy theory is that they didn't give it to Boris...

Oh Wait

Sounds like a live mass clinical trial ordered by the Trump. Could be disastrous.

Could be disastrous! Of drugs that have been approved for 70+ years and whose contra-indications are very well known! Think of it as TDA in action.

I know of at least one hospital in the UK which secured Hydroxychloroquin and routinely issued it to it's employee's this month, of course the management & medical director could have been cavalier with their employees lives...

Alternatively they might have reviewed the available literature and decided, like the FDA, that it it wouldn't hurt and might be of benefit.

Fat Albert wrote:

message #2527204 wrote:

Fat Albert wrote:
FDA Authorises Chloroquin & Hydroxychloroquin for use in Covid-19 treatment/prevention.

Our government knew it worked back in February when they banned the drugs export, the only thing preventing a conspiracy theory is that they didn't give it to Boris...

Oh Wait

Sounds like a live mass clinical trial ordered by the Trump. Could be disastrous.

Could be disastrous! Of drugs that have been approved for 70+ years and whose contra-indications are very well known! Think of it as TDA in action.

I know of at least one hospital in the UK which secured Hydroxychloroquin and routinely issued it to it's employee's this month, of course the management & medical director could have been cavalier with their employees lives...

Alternatively they might have reviewed the available literature and decided, like the FDA, that it it wouldn't hurt and might be of benefit.

"Wouldn't hurt" is very debatable. You're suggesting that you should divert available supply from those with a defined clinical need (e.g. lupus sufferers) towards a group for whom it might achieve nothing. Unless of course there is a huge secret stash somewhere just waiting on the off-chance that it might be useful.

It seems exceptionally reckless to me.

Fat Albert wrote:

message #2527204 wrote:

Fat Albert wrote:
FDA Authorises Chloroquin & Hydroxychloroquin for use in Covid-19 treatment/prevention.

Our government knew it worked back in February when they banned the drugs export, the only thing preventing a conspiracy theory is that they didn't give it to Boris...

Oh Wait

Sounds like a live mass clinical trial ordered by the Trump. Could be disastrous.

Could be disastrous! Of drugs that have been approved for 70+ years and whose contra-indications are very well known! Think of it as TDA in action.

I know of at least one hospital in the UK which secured Hydroxychloroquin and routinely issued it to it's employee's this month, of course the management & medical director could have been cavalier with their employees lives...

Alternatively they might have reviewed the available literature and decided, like the FDA, that it it wouldn't hurt and might be of benefit.

adverse effects include the acute symptoms, plus altered eye pigmentation, acne, anemia, bleaching of hair, blisters in mouth and eyes, blood disorders, convulsions, vision difficulties, diminished reflexes, emotional changes, excessive coloring of the skin, hearing loss, hives, itching, liver problems or liver failure, loss of hair, muscle paralysis, weakness or atrophy, nightmares, psoriasis, reading difficulties, tinnitus, skin inflammation and scaling, skin rash, vertigo, weight loss, and occasionally urinary incontinence.[2] Hydroxychloroquine can worsen existing cases of both psoriasis and porphyria.[2]

Children may be especially vulnerable to developing adverse effects from hydroxychloroquine.[2]

Sounds as though mass indiscriminate use with little idea of its effectiveness might be disastrous to me.
But then Trump had a hunch it will solve everything, so.

Fat Albert wrote:

message #2527204 wrote:

Fat Albert wrote:
FDA Authorises Chloroquin & Hydroxychloroquin for use in Covid-19 treatment/prevention.

Our government knew it worked back in February when they banned the drugs export, the only thing preventing a conspiracy theory is that they didn't give it to Boris...

Oh Wait

Sounds like a live mass clinical trial ordered by the Trump. Could be disastrous.

Could be disastrous! Of drugs that have been approved for 70+ years and whose contra-indications are very well known! Think of it as TDA in action.

I know of at least one hospital in the UK which secured Hydroxychloroquin and routinely issued it to it's employee's this month, of course the management & medical director could have been cavalier with their employees lives...

Alternatively they might have reviewed the available literature and decided, like the FDA, that it it wouldn't hurt and might be of benefit.

I'm a little confused why you're trying to be as uncritical as possible with this. The idea that it wouldn't hurt is baffling - we honestly do not know whether it would hurt or help people with COVID-19. All we have to go on is small studies that aren't good enough samples (including some from China where it's actually made things worse in patients), the response from various medical facilities who are desperate for anything they can legally use to help (and as mentioned, in NY they're backing off it as it doesn't seem to help much), and then weird trumpeting by idiots like the American president which is actively harming people.

The FDA PDF makes for interesting reading - they're basically saying "you can use chloroquine phosphate and hydroxychloroquine sulfate in order to collect evidence that this stuff actually works, especially as we have no real alternative right now". It is not, by any stretch of the imagination, proof that this does work and that it is actually effective with no critical downsides.

They're playing the odds (under pressure from the orange man), and as time is of the essence it's worth the risk to find out if this stuff works, as no-one really knows yet.

JM2K6 wrote:I'm a little confused why you're trying to be as uncritical as possible with this. The idea that it wouldn't hurt is baffling - we honestly do not know whether it would hurt or help people with COVID-19.

I don't think I'm being uncritical, I am now aware of a second hospital which is offering (not instructing) it's staff Hydroxychloroquin as a prophylactic for Covid-19.

I'm also aware of a shortage of hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil is one brand name) in the UK which has got worse since the Government action in February. Since medical practitioners are not prescribing it for Covid-19 in the UK why has the shortage got worse?

Most of us are intelligent enough to read the contra-indications on the box, leaflet and on line. The recommended dosage for malarial prophylaxis is small, 1 x 400mg tablet per week for 2 weeks before & during exposure and 8 weeks after exposure.

Those countries with high incidence of malaria (and therefore high incidence of anti-malarial drug taking) continue to show low incidence of Covid-19. Hydroxychloroquin is in widespread regular use by substantial numbers of people in those regions, I simply don't understand why something which is proven relatively benign and which has more than anecdotal evidence as providing some protection from Covid-19 is being used as a political football.

Trump is a moron, even morons can contribute occasionally.

Fat Albert wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:I'm a little confused why you're trying to be as uncritical as possible with this. The idea that it wouldn't hurt is baffling - we honestly do not know whether it would hurt or help people with COVID-19.

I don't think I'm being uncritical, I am now aware of a second hospital which is offering (not instructing) it's staff Hydroxychloroquin as a prophylactic for Covid-19.

I'm also aware of a shortage of hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil is one brand name) in the UK which has got worse since the Government action in February. Since medical practitioners are not prescribing it for Covid-19 in the UK why has the shortage got worse?

Because people are able to buy it themselves and megaphones like Trump mean there's a run on this stuff? It also means that people who actually need it already are going short.

Most of us are intelligent enough to read the contra-indications on the box, leaflet and on line. The recommended dosage for malarial prophylaxis is small, 1 x 400mg tablet per week for 2 weeks before & during exposure and 8 weeks after exposure.

Yes, but the contra-indications don't say anything about COVID-19, do they. It's a new variable.

Those countries with high incidence of malaria (and therefore high incidence of anti-malarial drug taking) continue to show low incidence of Covid-19. Hydroxychloroquin is in widespread regular use by substantial numbers of people in those regions, I simply don't understand why something which is proven relatively benign and which has more than anecdotal evidence as providing some protection from Covid-19 is being used as a political football.

Trump is a moron, even morons can contribute occasionally.

It doesn't yet have more than anecdotal evidence. The FDA has approved its use precisely to get something more than anecdotal evidence. It's in their declaration.

The malarial countries are beginning to develop COVID-19, just like everyone else. They're not major transport hubs and tourist destinations (or home to loads of tourists) though so they're earlier in the curve than most other countries. Cameroon, the Ivory Coast, Burkina Faso - these are some of the countries most affected by malaria, and they're also ones starting to see real growth in COVID-19. Burkina Faso reported their first case on March 8th - they're up to 246 now. Cameroon, March 5th and 193; Ivory Coast, March 10th and 168 cases.

It took the UK longer than those timespans to hit those numbers starting at the first case.

How many of the population in places that have Malaria are on these drugs, most of the population cannot afford to be in anti-malaria drugs, it is mainly westerners going to those locations that take the drugs.

The protection that most have is sleeping under a net, (could it be this that is providing the protection).

msp. wrote:How many of the population in places that have Malaria are on these drugs, most of the population cannot afford to be in anti-malaria drugs, it is mainly westerners going to those locations that take the drugs.

The protection that most have is sleeping under a net, (could it be this that is providing the protection).

Honestly I have no idea - I'm only engaging with the theory put forward.

Dr. Vladimir Zelenko has now treated 699 coronavirus patients with 100% success using Hydroxychloroquine Sulfate, Zinc and Z-Pak

Dr. Zelenko provides updates after he successfully treated 699 COVID-19 patients in New York. In an exclusive interview with former New York Mayor, Rudy Giuliani, Dr. Vladmir Zelenko shares the results of his latest study, which showed that out of his 699 patients treated, zero patients died, zero patients intubated, and four hospitalizations.

French researchers completed additional study on 80 patients, results show a combination of Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin to be effective in treating COVID-19

We need an effective treatment to cure COVID-19 patients and to decrease the virus carriage duration. In 80 in-patients receiving a combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin we noted a clinical improvement in all but one 86 year-old patient who died, and one 74 yearold patient still in intensive care unit. A rapid fall of nasopharyngeal viral load tested by qPCR was noted, with 83% negative at Day7, and 93% at Day8. Virus cultures from patient respiratory samples were negative in 97.5% patients at Day5. This allowed patients to rapidly be discharge from highly contagious wards with a mean length of stay of five days. We believe other teams should urgently evaluate this cost-effective therapeutic strategy, to both avoid the spread of the disease and treat patients as soon as possible before severe respiratory irreversible complications take hold.

msp. wrote:How many of the population in places that have Malaria are on these drugs, most of the population cannot afford to be in anti-malaria drugs, it is mainly westerners going to those locations that take the drugs.

The protection that most have is sleeping under a net, (could it be this that is providing the protection).

Don't tell Trump.

In Vitro Antiviral Activity and Projection of Optimized Dosing Design of Hydroxychloroquine for the Treatment of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2).

The Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) first broke out in Wuhan (China) and subsequently spread worldwide. Chloroquine has been sporadically used in treating SARS-CoV-2 infection. Hydroxychloroquine shares the same mechanism of action as chloroquine, but its more tolerable safety profile makes it the preferred drug to treat malaria and autoimmune conditions. We propose that the immunomodulatory effect of hydroxychloroquine also may be useful in controlling the cytokine storm that occurs late-phase in critically ill SARS-CoV-2 infected patients. Currently, there is no evidence to support the use of hydroxychloroquine in SARS-CoV-2 infection.

Yes, I noted the last sentence, which refers to evidence 'in vitro' (laboratory), the paper does not refer to efficacy on patients.

Surely there is now more than enough practical evidence, with more published every day, that Hydroxychloroquin though not a panacea, is of net benefit to Covid-19 patients.