China backlash?

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Nolanator
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Nolanator »

Fascinating posts, Naki. :thumbup:
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kiap
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Re: China backlash?

Post by kiap »

message #2527204 wrote:Is it China hacking the Ozzies, or maybe the UK?
China

But you've got to say it in Trump's voice.

Chyna
grievous
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Re: China backlash?

Post by grievous »

Revenge for banning Huawei
Governments need to treat cyber defence the same if not more important that front line military capability.
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Short Man Syndrome
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-taiw ... ce=twitter
Chinese bomber approaches Taiwan in latest fly-by near island

TAIPEI (Reuters) - Chinese air force jets, including at least one bomber, briefly entered Taiwan’s air defence identification zone on Monday, before being warned off by its air force, the island’s military said, the eighth such encounter in two weeks.

The encounter came on the day President Tsai Ing-wen oversaw a test flight of a new locally-developed advanced trainer jet as she pushes to boost democratic Taiwan’s defences, particularly as China ramps up its own military modernisation.

Taiwan’s air force named the Chinese aircraft involved as the H-6 bomber and J-10 fighter jet, but did not say how many planes in total flew into the identification zone to the island’s southwest.

The Chinese air force received verbal warnings to leave via radio, and patrolling Taiwanese fighters also “proactively drove off” the aircraft, Taiwan’s air force said in a short statement, without giving details.

The H-6 is a nuclear-capable bomber based on an old Soviet design that has participated in several such drills near Taiwan, including what China calls “island encirclement” exercises around the Chinese claimed-island.

China claims Taiwan as its own territory, and has previously said its drills near the island are routine and designed to show Beijing’s determination to protect its sovereignty. Taiwan has shown no interest in being run by autocratic China.
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paddyor
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Re: China backlash?

Post by paddyor »

Winnie wrote:
naki111 wrote:
Floppykid wrote:
naki111 wrote:Basically it's a shitshow here.

For a little while, everyone did as they were supposed to and actually washed their hands and used soap and just followed basic hygiene etiquette. Spitting almost completely ceased and I really thought it was going to be a turning point here for public health.

Now, it's as if nothing happened, except everyone wears masks. It's weird. People here wear masks, but I don't see anyone wash their hands, and if they do, it's a quick splash under the taps, no soap, just walk out with water dripping everywhere. At work it's the same. At the risk of being accused of racism, it's even educated Chinese people who have studied overseas for postgrad degrees, speak fluent English and should know better. It's bizarre.

Also, the public bathrooms were all shut down during the middle of the epidemic. The 'nihao' toilets which are just holes in the ground with barriers separating the squatters not doors, no soap, no sinks in the toilets are back in full force. China can build highways to no where and the world's tallest skycrapers but somehow these public health disasters are still everywhere all over the capital city. But it's fine! We are wearing masks! No problems! Foreigners are bringing the virus!
Are you considering leaving China?
There seems to b very little upside to the place.
I had planned to be here a lot longer because I thought the career opportunities with China experience were pretty valuable. I think this is becoming less and less self evident. The world will slowly divest from China and it will revert to the backwards shithole that it was during the Mao years. The nationalism here will continue to snowball because they have picked all the low hanging economic fruits and need to make difficult political decisions that they are not prepared to make. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas, basically. I would not want to live here in five years let alone ten. I don't even really want to live here now, but I have obligations with work and other things and it's not the right time for me to get out. Next year though I'll be gone for sure. Many (most?) of my expat friends are saying the same thing. Actions have consequences and China is not an attractive place to live at all now as an expat vis a vis other Asian destinations with similar opportunities and far less bullshit to deal with.

When I first came out here five years ago as part of my undergrad degree, I had stars in my eyes about the place and really saw all the upside to China. I am now very pessimistic about the place and don't know how anyone who spends a significant time living and working here can put a positive spin on it. I am deeply suspicious of my mates Calculus and CCP_Viking for this reason. They are South Africans though, so I guess China even in its current state is a utopia compared to what they have to go back to.
I just wanted to say thanks for all your posts, your insights are fascinating as to what is happening over there
Stay safe :thumbup:
+1
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Sandstorm
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Sandstorm »

+2
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eldanielfire
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Re: China backlash?

Post by eldanielfire »

Interesting, The guardian ahs come out with two pieces today raging on China and rightfully so. Perhaps a bit of cultural change. Looks now Xi is being given the Putin treatment and they have remembered that China's treatment of Muslim make's Trump's comments homely, also why the heck are Saudi Arabia et al bending the knee to them?:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... l-hegemony

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -brutality

The UK are banning China's phone company form 5G now:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... in-months/
grievous
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Re: China backlash?

Post by grievous »

The UK are banning China's phone company form 5G now:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... in-months/[/quote]
About time. Now wait briefly for some CCP throwing toys out of the pram.
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CMAN
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Re: China backlash?

Post by CMAN »

eldanielfire wrote:Interesting, The guardian ahs come out with two pieces today raging on China and rightfully so. Perhaps a bit of cultural change. Looks now Xi is being given the Putin treatment and they have remembered that China's treatment of Muslim make's Trump's comments homely, also why the heck are Saudi Arabia et al bending the knee to them?:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... l-hegemony

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -brutality

The UK are banning China's phone company form 5G now:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... in-months/

I wonder when will the UK Guardian call out the despot women hating Saudi regime for their acts of genocide against the Houthis in Yemen, they are also Muslim I believe. And when will the Guardian call out the UK regime for supplying weapons to the despot Saudi regime..
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eldanielfire
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Re: China backlash?

Post by eldanielfire »

CMAN wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:Interesting, The guardian ahs come out with two pieces today raging on China and rightfully so. Perhaps a bit of cultural change. Looks now Xi is being given the Putin treatment and they have remembered that China's treatment of Muslim make's Trump's comments homely, also why the heck are Saudi Arabia et al bending the knee to them?:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... l-hegemony

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -brutality

The UK are banning China's phone company form 5G now:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... in-months/

I wonder when will the UK Guardian call out the despot women hating Saudi regime for their acts of genocide against the Houthis in Yemen, they are also Muslim I believe. And when will the Guardian call out the UK regime for supplying weapons to the despot Saudi regime..

Yemen is poorly reported everywhere. A disgrace. The Guardian have done the latter before when May signed the last deal with the Saudi's. It was one of the criticisms that Jeremy Corbyn made that I whole heartidly agree with. However I highest suspect a lot of the business with the Saudi's is done out of a mixture of paralysis as no one else does anything, fear they will fund terrorism groups against you and the need for foreign investment in your own economy in a globalised world.
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BBC 2
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Re: China backlash?

Post by BBC 2 »

Wyndham Upalot wrote:
Dark wrote:
Wyndham Upalot wrote:
c69 wrote:So what exactly have China done wrong?
Nothing, apparently, just promoting a healthy discussion.
About what?
You're not very bright are you? Or, I'm guessing that English is not your first language which in case, I apologise.
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Bowens
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Bowens »

CMAN wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:Interesting, The guardian ahs come out with two pieces today raging on China and rightfully so. Perhaps a bit of cultural change. Looks now Xi is being given the Putin treatment and they have remembered that China's treatment of Muslim make's Trump's comments homely, also why the heck are Saudi Arabia et al bending the knee to them?:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... l-hegemony

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -brutality

The UK are banning China's phone company form 5G now:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... in-months/

I wonder when will the UK Guardian call out the despot women hating Saudi regime for their acts of genocide against the Houthis in Yemen, they are also Muslim I believe. And when will the Guardian call out the UK regime for supplying weapons to the despot Saudi regime..
The Guardian criticize the Saudis and cover Yemen frequently. But since you’re a guy who registered just to comment on China and attack pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong, state propaganda like the Global Times is probably more your style.
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Floppykid
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Floppykid »

Cmans posting history is interesting alright. :lol:
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CMAN
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Re: China backlash?

Post by CMAN »

Floppykid wrote:Cmans posting history is interesting alright. :lol:

I’m sure that the pro-democracy folk in Newcastle must be giving each other celebratory pat’s on the backs knowing that the democracy loving, head chopping Saudi’s are about to make them great again.

Can you imagine the outrage if it was the communists Chinese and not the totalitarians from the gulf making them great again.
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paddyor
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Re: China backlash?

Post by paddyor »

This is a good long read about how China overtook a Canadian rival in 5g. Maybe it's just me but their method for developing 5g sounds suspicious as does the fella they signed from Nortel who came up with it.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... rom-nortel
Tuivasa
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Tuivasa »

I'll trust china over usa anyday.
USA needs to be held accountable more than china. yes china is awful in some things- but USA is a terrorist nation.
goeagles
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Re: China backlash?

Post by goeagles »

Tuivasa wrote:I'll trust china over usa anyday.
USA needs to be held accountable more than china. yes china is awful in some things- but USA is a terrorist nation.
Eventually you'll catch someone with this troll.
Tuivasa
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Tuivasa »

goeagles wrote:
Tuivasa wrote:I'll trust china over usa anyday.
USA needs to be held accountable more than china. yes china is awful in some things- but USA is a terrorist nation.
Eventually you'll catch someone with this troll.

its not a troll you wanna-be politically correct idiot.
Defend usa all you like, Most people know of their evils. THEY ARE WORSE THAN CHINA IN EVERY WAY. They have killed millions of innocents over the years by inventing wars.
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eldanielfire
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Re: China backlash?

Post by eldanielfire »

Tuivasa wrote:
goeagles wrote:
Tuivasa wrote:I'll trust china over usa anyday.
USA needs to be held accountable more than china. yes china is awful in some things- but USA is a terrorist nation.
Eventually you'll catch someone with this troll.

its not a troll you wanna-be politically correct idiot.
Defend usa all you like, Most people know of their evils. THEY ARE WORSE THAN CHINA IN EVERY WAY. They have killed millions of innocents over the years by inventing wars.

I agree. No Chinese leader could ever be responsible for millons of deaths could they? :thumbup:

Image
Tuivasa
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Tuivasa »

eldanielfire wrote:
Tuivasa wrote:
goeagles wrote:
Tuivasa wrote:I'll trust china over usa anyday.
USA needs to be held accountable more than china. yes china is awful in some things- but USA is a terrorist nation.
Eventually you'll catch someone with this troll.

its not a troll you wanna-be politically correct idiot.
Defend usa all you like, Most people know of their evils. THEY ARE WORSE THAN CHINA IN EVERY WAY. They have killed millions of innocents over the years by inventing wars.

I agree. No Chinese leader could ever be responsible for millons of deaths could they? :thumbup:

Image
Not relevant today.
Still not as bad as usa today anyway.
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eldanielfire
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Re: China backlash?

Post by eldanielfire »

Tuivasa wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Tuivasa wrote:
goeagles wrote:
Tuivasa wrote:I'll trust china over usa anyday.
USA needs to be held accountable more than china. yes china is awful in some things- but USA is a terrorist nation.
Eventually you'll catch someone with this troll.

its not a troll you wanna-be politically correct idiot.
Defend usa all you like, Most people know of their evils. THEY ARE WORSE THAN CHINA IN EVERY WAY. They have killed millions of innocents over the years by inventing wars.

I agree. No Chinese leader could ever be responsible for millons of deaths could they? :thumbup:

Image
Not relevant today.
Still not as bad as usa today anyway.
The USA certainly wouldn't be brave enough to round up a million or three Muslims into prison, men, women and children then kill/sterlise/brainwash/torture/remove organs for, well, existing. :thumbup:

Image
Tuivasa
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Tuivasa »

its not a troll you wanna-be politically correct idiot.
Defend usa all you like, Most people know of their evils. THEY ARE WORSE THAN CHINA IN EVERY WAY. They have killed millions of innocents over the years by inventing wars.[/quote]


I agree. No Chinese leader could ever be responsible for millons of deaths could they? :thumbup:



Not relevant today.
Still not as bad as usa today anyway.[/quote]

The USA certainly wouldn't be brave enough to round up a million or three Muslims into prison, men, women and children then kill/sterlise/brainwash/torture/remove organs for, well, existing. :thumbup:

Image[/quote]

No- Their strategy is more to Go to muslim countries , kill innocents and pretend they did well/ won a war.
They are worse.
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Farva
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Farva »

For all the faults of the US, and there are some there, China is significantly worse.
China has no freedom of press, free and open elections, can lock people up without trial. It lives under a dictatorship that has a general disregard for human life.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Ali's Choice »

Farva wrote:For all the faults of the US, and there are some there, China is significantly worse.
China has no freedom of press, free and open elections, can lock people up without trial. It lives under a dictatorship that has a general disregard for human life.
Who would rather sit next to in economy class for a long haul flight, Xi Jinping or Donald Trump?
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kiap
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Re: China backlash?

Post by kiap »

Ali's Choice wrote:Who would rather sit next to in economy class for a long haul flight, Xi Jinping or Donald Trump?
Possibly Xi, but it's relative. He's still a fat cvnt. Innit.

Image

I want to be seated beside a petite young lady.
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AnkleTap
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Re: China backlash?

Post by AnkleTap »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Farva wrote:For all the faults of the US, and there are some there, China is significantly worse.
China has no freedom of press, free and open elections, can lock people up without trial. It lives under a dictatorship that has a general disregard for human life.
Who would rather sit next to in economy class for a long haul flight, Xi Jinping or Donald Trump?
What the fucks Xi going to do that would be remotely interesting. Probably a polite chat about the merits of combine harvesters. With Trump you might land knowing all the codez.
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CMAN
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Re: China backlash?

Post by CMAN »

Farva wrote:For all the faults of the US, and there are some there, China is significantly worse.
China has no freedom of press, free and open elections, can lock people up without trial. It lives under a dictatorship that has a general disregard for human life.
In the 80s China was just as communistic as it is today, and a few years after Tiananmen Square the US political elite and white oligarchs decided to close thousands of factories and fire millions of people so that they get into bed with the communists. If I were Trump I would round up all the communists traitors arrest them and send them to Guantanamo Bay for water boarding and re-education.
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Ellafan
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Ellafan »

CMAN wrote:
Farva wrote:For all the faults of the US, and there are some there, China is significantly worse.
China has no freedom of press, free and open elections, can lock people up without trial. It lives under a dictatorship that has a general disregard for human life.
In the 80s China was just as communistic as it is today, and a few years after Tiananmen Square the US political elite and white oligarchs decided to close thousands of factories and fire millions of people so that they get into bed with the communists. If I were Trump I would round up all the communists traitors arrest them and send them to Guantanamo Bay for water boarding and re-education.
Either a Captain in the PLA, or a Sefton multi.

Take your pick.
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paddyor
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Re: China backlash?

Post by paddyor »

kiap wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:Who would rather sit next to in economy class for a long haul flight, Xi Jinping or Donald Trump?
Possibly Xi, but it's relative. He's still a fat cvnt. Innit.

Image

I want to be seated beside a petite young lady.
My god he does look like Winnie the Pooh
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Short Man Syndrome
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

What is the cut off period for murdering millions of people becoming irrelevant? Asking for a friend.
Yer Man
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Yer Man »

eldanielfire wrote:I agree. No Chinese leader could ever be responsible for millons of deaths could they? :thumbup:

Image
More than Hitler and Stalin put together wasn't it?
Santa
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Santa »

Short Man Syndrome wrote:What is the cut off period for murdering millions of people becoming irrelevant? Asking for a friend.
400 years if you're white. A couple do decades for everyone else
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Farva
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Farva »

AnkleTap wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Farva wrote:For all the faults of the US, and there are some there, China is significantly worse.
China has no freedom of press, free and open elections, can lock people up without trial. It lives under a dictatorship that has a general disregard for human life.
Who would rather sit next to in economy class for a long haul flight, Xi Jinping or Donald Trump?
What the fucks Xi going to do that would be remotely interesting. Probably a polite chat about the merits of combine harvesters. With Trump you might land knowing all the codez.
I heard a story about someone who sat next to Gina Rinehart on an 8 hr flight. She spent the entire flight talking about mining. Potentially the most boring flight of your life.

I would pick Trump hands down. He is a dickhead, but fudge me rotten it would be an interesting!
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Sensible Stephen
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Sensible Stephen »

Farva wrote:
AnkleTap wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Farva wrote:For all the faults of the US, and there are some there, China is significantly worse.
China has no freedom of press, free and open elections, can lock people up without trial. It lives under a dictatorship that has a general disregard for human life.
Who would rather sit next to in economy class for a long haul flight, Xi Jinping or Donald Trump?
What the fucks Xi going to do that would be remotely interesting. Probably a polite chat about the merits of combine harvesters. With Trump you might land knowing all the codez.
I heard a story about someone who sat next to Gina Rinehart on an 8 hr flight. She spent the entire flight talking about mining. Potentially the most boring flight of your life.

I would pick Trump hands down. He is a dickhead, but fudge me rotten it would be an interesting!
And there won't be secret police waiting at the other end to take you away to some camp. :shock:
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Ellafan
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Ellafan »

Santa wrote:
Short Man Syndrome wrote:What is the cut off period for murdering millions of people becoming irrelevant? Asking for a friend.
400 years if you're white. A couple do decades for everyone else
So the Romans, Huns etc, and Mongols are good to go then. Chur bro. :thumbup:
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eldanielfire
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Re: China backlash?

Post by eldanielfire »

A few informative pieces of good media in recent days. Andrew Marr really took it to the Chinese Ambasador about Uighur Muslims being taken off to prison:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08l7q6z

Also the New York Times on how,s adly China is using Uighur slave Labour to make masks for the Coronavirus Pandemic:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/19/worl ... labor.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/19/worl ... labor.html

China Is Using Uighur Labor to Produce Face Masks
A Times video investigation identified Chinese companies using a contentious labor program for Uighurs to satisfy demand for P.P.E., some of which ended up in the United States and other countries.

Video

TRANSCRIPT

1:07/8:33
Wearing a Mask? It May Come From China’s Controversial Labor Program
Our visual investigation reveals that several Chinese companies are using Uighur labor from a contentious government program to produce P.P.E. during the pandemic. We track some of that equipment to the U.S. and around the world.
If you are one of the millions of people around the world wearing a face mask because of the coronavirus pandemic, this footage may concern you. It shows a group of Uighurs arriving at a textile company that started producing masks in response to the pandemic. The Uighurs are a long-persecuted, largely Muslim ethnic minority. This slickly produced video from Chinese state TV appears to show grateful workers getting ready for their new jobs. But behind this propaganda is a hidden story about a longstanding and highly controversial government labor program that experts say often puts people to work against their will. We reviewed hundreds of videos, photos, government documents and shipping data to reveal how the surging demand for face masks is linked to this problematic program. We identified several Chinese companies that use Uighur labor to produce P.P.E. And we tracked some of their shipments to consumers in the U.S. and around the world. “The rural poor that are being put into factory work are not going by choice. There are these coercive quotas that cause people to be put into factory work when they don’t want to be. And that could be considered forced labor under international law.” This is all driven by supply and demand. Chinese companies have been rushing to produce masks as the pandemic spread across China and the rest of the world. In Xinjiang, where a majority of Uighurs live, only four companies produced medical-grade protective equipment before the pandemic. Now, that number is 51. We found that at least 17 of those participate in the labor transfer program. “Any company that is procuring masks or other personal protective equipment that wants to avoid forced labor content in those products should not be sourcing them from Xinjiang.” Let’s take a closer look at one factory in Xinjiang: the company we showed you earlier, where Uighurs were arriving for their first day. It’s called Tianshan Textile. China proudly promotes the transfer program as a way to reduce poverty. So we are able to follow the workers to their new living quarters at the factory, thanks to reports on state media. It all started here. In mid-March, the government moved almost 2,000 Uighurs from Hotan, in the south of Xinjiang. Their destination is Urumqi, Xinjiang’s capital city in the north. Fifty were sent to Tianshan Textile for a very specific task. Tianshan didn’t respond to our request for comment. But it’s a clear example of how Uighur workers are fulfilling the increasing need for P.P.E. Now, let’s look at companies that use the labor program to make products that are shipped to the United States and around the world. We are first going to look at a company called Hubei Haixin. It uses Uighur workers from the labor transfer program. Its factory is located here, almost 2,000 miles away from Hotan, where the Uighur workers were transferred from. We tracked one of Hubei Haixin’s face mask shipments from its port of departure in Shanghai to the United States. It arrived at the port of Los Angeles in late May. Then, the shipment was received by MedWay US, a medical supply company in Suwanee, Ga. Although MedWay US wouldn’t respond to questions from The Times about the origins of their products, we can see they do sell face masks online. Protective gear made by Hubei Haixin is also readily available to U.S. consumers on popular online shopping websites. Images of the Uighurs’ living conditions at the Hubei Haixin factory, proudly broadcast on state media, help explain why the labor transfer program is so controversial. They are required to attend a weekly national flag-raising ceremony to pledge loyalty to China. They also must learn to speak Mandarin. This form of political indoctrination is common, and we see it in even greater detail at another exporting company we identified. This is Medwell Medical Products. According to state media, Uighurs make up over 25 percent of the company’s labor force. Although an employee who answered the phone at Medwell told The Times that they have no workers from Xinjiang, we know there are Uighurs at Medwell’s factory. In satellite imagery, we can clearly see their segregated living quarters. They have an assigned area on the factory grounds. They’re surrounded by government indoctrination and take mandatory Mandarin language classes three times a week. In the government’s view, fluency in Mandarin and skills in factory work are key to assimilating to Chinese society. It’s unclear how many masks Medwell sends abroad. But a Medwell representative openly promoted its robust export business in an interview on state TV. And we found that it’s also shipping to current virus hot spots in Latin America. A Brazilian company called MedTrace received a shipment of face masks from Medwell but told us they were unaware that it uses Uighur workers. The labor transfer program is part of a larger system of repression and mass incarceration. Over one million Uighurs and mostly Muslim minorities have been detained in recent years, some simply for their religious practice. The Chinese Communist Party says its tight control over Xinjiang is necessary to fight what it says is religious extremism. It’s virtually impossible to know who in the transfer program was forced to participate. Speaking out is incredibly risky. And the government is shaping the narrative. “In Xinjiang, it is not a practical possibility at this moment to do effective worker interviews because no worker can be expected, whether onsite or offsite, to feel comfortable speaking candidly and openly with an interviewer, particularly if the matter under discussion is the issue of forced labor, which is the burning issue in Xinjiang from a labor rights standpoint.” But we do know that the transfers are widespread and often coercive. Authorities provide regions with subsidies for each worker that they take in. They also impose quotas on the number of workers that must be transferred. “That puts enormous pressure on those government officials to find those workers. And that increases the risks that those workers are not working willingly.” Those who refuse to work in the program can be penalized. A local government directive from 2018 describes a system that grades workers on their level of cooperation. Those with low scores are subject to more indoctrination, and their movements are restricted. Since 2017, almost three million people per year have been put in the program. The spokesman for China’s embassy in the U.S. told The Times that the rights of Uighur workers are protected and that the measures, quote, “help local residents rise above poverty through employment and lead fulfilling lives.” Earlier this year, an Australian think tank identified 83 major international brands whose supply chains were connected to the Uighur labor transfers, including Nike and Apple. The situation has become so troubling that the U.S. government in July 2020 warned U.S. companies of the risk of forced labor from Xinjiang. And U.S. lawmakers introduced a bipartisan bill to restrict imports from the region. “It’s injected forced labor into American and global supply chains.” “We know that many U.S., international and Chinese companies are complicit in the exploitation of forced labor.” But despite the concern, we found that protective gear from problematic supply chains is continuing to make its way into the U.S. and around the world. “Hey, it’s Haley here, one of the reporters on this video. Our team spent months investigating companies in China that use Uighur labor to produce P.P.E., but we only realized how widespread the issue really is when we tracked a shipment of face masks from one of those companies to the U.S. If you want to see more work like this, let us know what we should investigate next, and don’t forget to subscribe for more Visual Investigations.”

Wearing a Mask? It May Come From China’s Controversial Labor Program

By Muyi Xiao, Haley Willis, Christoph Koettl, Natalie Reneau and Drew Jordan

Our visual investigation reveals that several Chinese companies are using Uighur labor from a contentious government program to produce P.P.E. during the pandemic. We track some of that equipment to the U.S. and around the world.CreditCredit...Jingzhou TV, via Haokan Video
By Muyi Xiao, Haley Willis, Christoph Koettl, Natalie Reneau and Drew Jordan
Published July 19, 2020
Updated July 20, 2020

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As the coronavirus pandemic continues to drive demand for personal protective equipment, Chinese companies are rushing to manufacture the gear for domestic and global consumption. A New York Times visual investigation has found that some of those companies are using Uighur labor through a contentious government-sponsored program that experts say often puts people to work against their will.

Uighurs are a largely Muslim ethnic minority primarily from the Xinjiang region of northwest China. The program sends Uighurs and other ethnic minorities into factory and service jobs. Now, their labor is part of the P.P.E. supply chain. According to China’s National Medical Products Administration, only four companies in Xinjiang produced medical grade protective equipment before the pandemic. As of June 30, that number was 51. After reviewing state media reports and public records, The Times found that at least 17 of those companies participate in the labor transfer program.

The companies produce equipment primarily for domestic use, but The Times identified several other companies outside Xinjiang that use Uighur labor and export globally. We traced a shipment of face masks to a medical supply company in the U.S. state of Georgia from a factory in China’s Hubei Province, where more than 100 Uighur workers had been sent. The workers are required to learn Mandarin and pledge their loyalty to China at weekly flag-raising ceremonies.

The program is widely publicized in state media as a form of poverty reduction. The Human Rights Investigations Lab at the University of California, Berkeley and the Uyghur Human Rights Project have both collected dozens of videos and social media reports that document the recent labor transfers.

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Uighurs have long been persecuted by the Chinese government, which says its tight control over Xinjiang is necessary to fight what it calls religious extremism. In a response to The Times, the spokesman for China’s Embassy in the U.S. said the program helps “local residents rise above poverty through employment and lead fulfilling lives.”

Quotas on the number of workers put into the labor program and the penalties faced by those who refuse to cooperate, however, mean that participation is often, in effect, involuntary.

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“There are these coercive quotas that cause people to be put into factory work when they don’t want to be,” said Amy K. Lehr, the director of the Human Rights Initiative at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. “And that could be considered forced labor under international law.”

Austin Ramzy contributed reporting.
Flyin Ryan
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Flyin Ryan »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.axios. ... b646b.html
6 hours ago - WorldProsecutors say S.F. consulate is harboring Chinese military researcher wanted by FBI

Bethany Allen-Ebrahimian, author of China

A researcher who lied about her affiliation with a Chinese military university entered the Chinese consulate in San Francisco after being interviewed by the FBI on June 20 about alleged visa fraud and has remained there, according to an FBI assessment in court filings dated July 20.

Why it matters: Using a diplomatic facility to shelter someone charged with a federal crime could cause serious tension between the U.S. and China, especially as the U.S. is seeking to crack down on Chinese espionage and research theft.

"It is highly unusual for a Chinese diplomatic post to associate so closely with a suspect in an intellectual property theft-related case," said Minyao Wang, a New York-based lawyer who has worked on IP theft cases related to China.

"Sheltering a defendant in a criminal case by using the diplomatic immunity of a consular building, if true, is really extraordinary."

Context: On July 21, the U.S. told China that it must close its Houston consulate within 72 hours.

State Department spokesperson Morgan Ortagus said the move was intended to "protect American intellectual property and American’s private information."

Details: According to documents filed on July 20 in the San Francisco division of the U.S. district court for the Northern District of California, Tang Juan came to the U.S. on a J-1 visa and was a researcher at the University of California, Davis.

On her visa application, Tang stated that she did not have any affiliation with the People's Liberation Army (PLA), the Chinese military.But an investigation revealed that she worked at the Air Force Military Medical University (FMMU), a PLA-affiliated university in China, and she is considered to be active military personnel.After obtaining a warrant, the FBI searched her home and found evidence of her affiliation with the PLA.On June 26, Tang was charged with visa fraud.

Tang appears to have taken refuge inside the San Francisco consulate.

Federal prosecutors wrote that "at some point following the search and interview of Tang on June 20, 2020, Tang went to the Chinese Consulate in San Francisco, where the FBI assesses she has remained," according to court filings."As the Tang case demonstrates, the Chinese consulate in San Francisco provides a potential safe harbor for a PLA official intent on avoiding prosecution in the United States," prosecutors stated.

What they're saying: "We made the Chinese government aware that she is a charged individual, so it unquestionable that they know the defendant is a fugitive from Justice," a Department of Justice official told Axios.

The Chinese embassy in Washington, DC and the Chinese consulate in San Francisco did not respond to a request for comment.The State Department declined to comment.

The big picture: Federal prosecutors believe this isn't an isolated case.

Tang's case is listed among several similar recent ones that appear "to be part of a program conducted by the PLA — and specifically, FMMU or associated institutions—to send military scientists to the United States on false pretenses with false covers or false statements about their true employment," the court filing states.At least one among this group of cases involved a military scientist who had allegedly been directed by military superiors to steal information from a U.S. institution.In other cases, the Chinese government directed military scientists to destroy evidence, and had helped them leave the U.S, according to court filings.

Related: The White House issued an executive order on May 29 barring entry to certain Chinese students and researchers from PLA-linked universities, stating that they are at "high risk of being exploited or co-opted by the PRC authorities" to serve as "non-traditional collectors of intellectual property."

The bottom line: If the FBI's assessment is correct, the San Francisco consulate's decision to shelter a fugitive affiliated with the Chinese military is highly provocative behavior that goes against basic diplomatic conventions.
Having dealt with a few Chinese partners and customers in my previous engineering jobs, I'm happy. I hope it continues after Biden wins but I'm doubtful.

2 Chinese hackers living in China were named and charged with crimes, in a manner very reminiscent of the Russian hackers that lived in Russia tied to Guccifer being charged with crimes.
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towny
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Re: China backlash?

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Tuivasa wrote:I'll trust china over usa anyday.
USA needs to be held accountable more than china. yes china is awful in some things- but USA is a terrorist nation.
This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
You can’t get arrested for making fun of Trump. China is a totalitarian state - you’re an uneducated moron.
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lilyw
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Re: China backlash?

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paddyor wrote:This is a good long read about how China overtook a Canadian rival in 5g. Maybe it's just me but their method for developing 5g sounds suspicious as does the fella they signed from Nortel who came up with it.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... rom-nortel
They stole technology & IP wholesale from Nortel.

I used to work for Nortel (then called BNR) in the UK & I knew some of their people who transferred back to Ottawa. One of them (originally Irish) has some hilarious stories about how Huawei's 1st generation equipment even included known problems from Nortel in it's code. This person was also sent transcripts of phone conversations from his office that had been bugged and sent to China back in the late '90s & early '00s. He was semi-flattered that they felt him sufficiently important to spy on (at the time he was the main technical interface between Nortel & some of the US carriers).
Harvey2.0
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Re: China backlash?

Post by Harvey2.0 »

lilyw wrote:
paddyor wrote:This is a good long read about how China overtook a Canadian rival in 5g. Maybe it's just me but their method for developing 5g sounds suspicious as does the fella they signed from Nortel who came up with it.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... rom-nortel
They stole technology & IP wholesale from Nortel.

I used to work for Nortel (then called BNR) in the UK & I knew some of their people who transferred back to Ottawa. One of them (originally Irish) has some hilarious stories about how Huawei's 1st generation equipment even included known problems from Nortel in it's code. This person was also sent transcripts of phone conversations from his office that had been bugged and sent to China back in the late '90s & early '00s. He was semi-flattered that they felt him sufficiently important to spy on (at the time he was the main technical interface between Nortel & some of the US carriers).
That’s classic . My favourite is the landwind x7 which was launched at a car show next door to the launch of the Range Rover evoque which it copied. A rep from JLR was taking a walk at the show and spotted it, they also won their legal action against Landwind.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/guan ... ich-better
Kiwis might of heard of the story of the Chinese student that went home after finishing his degree and took Hells pizza boxes , menus etc with him and set up a hell pizza outlet in his home town without ever bothering to tell the owners of Hells pizza.
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