Which RWCs have an asterisk?

Peaches · Post by **Peaches** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:21 am

What wins do you think were epic flukes or won by refs?

2011 comes to mind with numerous high tackles on the French missed by the ref in the final (Joubert?).

RuggaBugga · Post by **RuggaBugga** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:28 am

How have I managed to miss this Jedi master of trolls before?

Lemoentjie · Post by **Lemoentjie** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:30 am

Honestly?

1987, 2011

AND-y · Post by **AND-y** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:31 am

Any that went to extra time in the final.

Mog The Almighty · Post by **Mog The Almighty** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:42 am

Peaches wrote:What wins do you think were epic flukes or won by refs?

2011 comes to mind with numerous high tackles on the French missed by the ref in the final (Joubert?).

Good call.

Monk Zombie · Post by **Monk Zombie** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:48 am

Peaches wrote:What wins do you think were epic flukes or won by refs?

2011 comes to mind with numerous high tackles on the French missed by the ref in the final (Joubert?).

plus Bryce Lawrence's handywork in the Bok/Wallaby quarter-final

Mog The Almighty · Post by **Mog The Almighty** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:12 pm

Monk Zombie wrote:
Peaches wrote:What wins do you think were epic flukes or won by refs?

2011 comes to mind with numerous high tackles on the French missed by the ref in the final (Joubert?).
plus Bryce Lawrence's handywork in the Bok/Wallaby semi

Lawrence had a cracker. For once a referee that didn't let the Boks get away with their usual cheating.

Monk Zombie · Post by **Monk Zombie** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:23 pm

Mog The Almighty wrote:
Monk Zombie wrote:
Peaches wrote:What wins do you think were epic flukes or won by refs?

2011 comes to mind with numerous high tackles on the French missed by the ref in the final (Joubert?).
plus Bryce Lawrence's handywork in the Bok/Wallaby semi
Lawrence had a cracker. For once a referee that didn't let the Boks get away with their usual cheating.

Bryce disagrees:

"I went into the quarter-final knowing it was a massive match and I didn't want to overly influence the outcome," said the 41-year-old Lawrence, who will become a high-performance referee reviewer for the New Zealand Rugby Union. "The way that transpired was I didn't make decisions and, if I had my time again, I would just go out there and do what I normally do, which is just referee and back myself."

"I had four really good [group] games at the World Cup and then I had that. I had outside pressure from pretty senior people from rugby countries behind the scenes that really created my mindset of lacking confidence to deliver what I normally do. There was some pretty nasty political stuff going on about that appointment with some people kicking up a massive stink. It probably made me freeze on the biggest stage."

ManInTheBar · Post by **ManInTheBar** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:29 pm

1991

Campo deliberately knocked on when Underwood would have scored. Should have been 5 pts and Campo off

duke · Post by **duke** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:32 pm

ManInTheBar wrote:1991

Campo deliberately knocked on when Underwood would have scored. Should have been 5 pts and Campo off

Whisper it quietly but a try was only worth 4 points at the time...

Average Joe · Post by **Average Joe** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:35 pm

All of them and that also makes them all legitimate in a way.

handyman · Post by **handyman** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:36 pm

Monk Zombie wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Monk Zombie wrote:
Peaches wrote:What wins do you think were epic flukes or won by refs?

2011 comes to mind with numerous high tackles on the French missed by the ref in the final (Joubert?).
plus Bryce Lawrence's handywork in the Bok/Wallaby semi
Lawrence had a cracker. For once a referee that didn't let the Boks get away with their usual cheating.
Bryce disagrees:

"I went into the quarter-final knowing it was a massive match and I didn't want to overly influence the outcome," said the 41-year-old Lawrence, who will become a high-performance referee reviewer for the New Zealand Rugby Union. "The way that transpired was I didn't make decisions and, if I had my time again, I would just go out there and do what I normally do, which is just referee and back myself."

"I had four really good [group] games at the World Cup and then I had that. I had outside pressure from pretty senior people from rugby countries behind the scenes that really created my mindset of lacking confidence to deliver what I normally do. There was some pretty nasty political stuff going on about that appointment with some people kicking up a massive stink. It probably made me freeze on the biggest stage."

Well, good on him to admit that he was at fault.

Mog The Almighty · Post by **Mog The Almighty** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:12 pm

Monk Zombie wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Monk Zombie wrote:
Peaches wrote:What wins do you think were epic flukes or won by refs?

2011 comes to mind with numerous high tackles on the French missed by the ref in the final (Joubert?).
plus Bryce Lawrence's handywork in the Bok/Wallaby semi
Lawrence had a cracker. For once a referee that didn't let the Boks get away with their usual cheating.
Bryce disagrees:

"I went into the quarter-final knowing it was a massive match and I didn't want to overly influence the outcome," said the 41-year-old Lawrence, who will become a high-performance referee reviewer for the New Zealand Rugby Union. "The way that transpired was I didn't make decisions and, if I had my time again, I would just go out there and do what I normally do, which is just referee and back myself."

"I had four really good [group] games at the World Cup and then I had that. I had outside pressure from pretty senior people from rugby countries behind the scenes that really created my mindset of lacking confidence to deliver what I normally do. There was some pretty nasty political stuff going on about that appointment with some people kicking up a massive stink. It probably made me freeze on the biggest stage."

I think you'll find that is fake news.

Bryce had an absolute cracker and was roundly applauded for his performance. In fact, I believe Ruck & Maul magazine rated it as 3rd best refereeing performance of the modern era, printing at the time, "Lawrence delivered a faultless disciplinarian spanking of which this South African team was in dire need. We would have rated this performance higher if it were not for some harsh calls against the Wallabies".

Gazzamonster · Post by **Gazzamonster** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:24 pm

1987 - No asterisk - All the sides capable of representing their Nation were present

1991 - No asterisk - although the Campese incident was controversial. The best team of the tournament won and all the sides capable of representing their Nation were present

1995 - asterisk - BUT - the very fact that it seemingly healed a countries old wounds shouldn't be overlooked. The AB's were definitely ill (natural occurrence or otherwise) but the biggest issue was the Semi Final debacle between SA and France. I think that has more bearing on the asterisk than the final

1999 - No asterisk - apart from one of the biggest upsets in World Cup history (at the time) occurring in the semis - Aussie were worthy winners - although the final was one of the worst regarding a contest

2003 - No asterisk - apart from the fact that Clive Woodward is a plum. Great final as well.

2007 - No asterisk - the 'was it wasn't try' is a non starter regarding the asterisk. SA were OK in the tournament - England got there by some dark magic. Runner up to being the worst final so far.

2011 - Asterisk - I'll just say that NZ were lucky in the final. But I don't think they were carried over the line. In much the same way that the 2007 quarter final had one team seemingly unable to be penalised so NZ got some calls here. The effort of NZ to get to the final and win it though - with a 4th choice 1st five and walking wounded all over the pitch is almost enough to have the asterisk scrubbed.

2015 - No asterisk - best side won. Hands down. The most dominant display in a World Cup final and entire tournament - best tournament to date as well. If Aussie had won there might be an asterisk to add due to Mr Joubert's interesting decision in the quarters

2019 - Maybe an asterisk? Hagibis ruined some countries' tournament - although those sides come across a bit childish and probably weren't going to challenge for the big dog positions anyway. But did the delays and breaks put some sides off their flow? Good Irish and Aussie sides failed to turn up to their quarter final. The AB's seemingly had waaay to much time to think about what the opposition were doing prior to their semi. Or is that just part of being in a tournament and teams coming to grips with things are successful.

MrDominator · Post by **MrDominator** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:32 pm

1987 should clearly have an asterisk.

A basically professional NZ outfit, slipping their players cash on the side, up against genuinely amateur teams from everywhere else.

Makes the Saracens scandal look micky mouse in comparison.

Gazzamonster · Post by **Gazzamonster** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:46 pm

MrDominator wrote:1987 should clearly have an asterisk.

A basically professional NZ outfit, slipping their players cash on the side, up against genuinely amateur teams from everywhere else.

Makes the Saracens scandal look micky mouse in comparison.

Yeah nah.

LandOTurk · Post by **LandOTurk** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:20 pm

Peaches wrote:What wins do you think were epic flukes or won by refs?

2011 comes to mind with numerous high tackles on the French missed by the ref in the final (Joubert?).

2011 SF with Warbs being red carded. French should never have been there. We would have creamed them with 15 men. Fcuk that asterisk.

rugga. · Post by **rugga.** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:25 pm

1987 No asterisk
1991 *
1995 *
1999 *
2003 *
2007 *
2011 No asterick
2015 No asterick
2019 *

Floppykid · Post by **Floppykid** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:27 pm

2011 is a bolded, red fonted asterisk.
The fact that Joubert was allowed to ref after that was crazy, the Scots paid the price for it at the next RWC.

Frodder · Post by **Frodder** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:31 pm

So it has been settled. 2011 is now officially tainted forever

handyman · Post by **handyman** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:47 pm

No asterisk, but I'm only counting the RWC's from 1995.

Gwenno · Post by **Gwenno** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:53 pm

Everyone in which Gaul played.

BokJock · Post by **BokJock** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:30 pm

MrDominator wrote:1987 should clearly have an asterisk.

A basically professional NZ outfit, slipping their players cash on the side, up against genuinely amateur teams from everywhere else.

Makes the Saracens scandal look micky mouse in comparison.

And the only other professional* team not allowed to play.

*By professional I mean a bunch of South African Breweries “sales reps”

Monk Zombie · Post by **Monk Zombie** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:32 pm

BokJock wrote:
MrDominator wrote:1987 should clearly have an asterisk.

A basically professional NZ outfit, slipping their players cash on the side, up against genuinely amateur teams from everywhere else.

Makes the Saracens scandal look micky mouse in comparison.
And the only other professional* team not allowed to play.

*By professional I mean a bunch of South African Breweries “sales reps”

and "varsity students"

edit to fair - having looked again at the probable Bok side for 87 their weren't really any reps or "students" in the side

ScarfaceClaw · Post by **ScarfaceClaw** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:51 pm

BokJock wrote:
MrDominator wrote:1987 should clearly have an asterisk.

A basically professional NZ outfit, slipping their players cash on the side, up against genuinely amateur teams from everywhere else.

Makes the Saracens scandal look micky mouse in comparison.
And the only other professional* team not allowed to play.

*By professional I mean a bunch of South African Breweries “sales reps”

Why weren’t Sefrica at that World Cup?

MrDominator · Post by **MrDominator** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:58 pm

BokJock wrote:
MrDominator wrote:1987 should clearly have an asterisk.

A basically professional NZ outfit, slipping their players cash on the side, up against genuinely amateur teams from everywhere else.

Makes the Saracens scandal look micky mouse in comparison.
And the only other professional* team not allowed to play.

*By professional I mean a bunch of South African Breweries “sales reps”

Exactly.

'87 should probably have two asterisks, to be honest.

Monk Zombie · Post by **Monk Zombie** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:03 pm

MrDominator wrote:
BokJock wrote:
MrDominator wrote:1987 should clearly have an asterisk.

A basically professional NZ outfit, slipping their players cash on the side, up against genuinely amateur teams from everywhere else.

Makes the Saracens scandal look micky mouse in comparison.
And the only other professional* team not allowed to play.

*By professional I mean a bunch of South African Breweries “sales reps”
Exactly.

'87 should probably have two asterisks, to be honest.

what are you talking about? produce some facts please

ManInTheBar · Post by **ManInTheBar** » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:19 pm

duke wrote:
ManInTheBar wrote:1991

Campo deliberately knocked on when Underwood would have scored. Should have been 5 pts and Campo off
Whisper it quietly but a try was only worth 4 points at the time...

Remind me, if you will, how much a conversion was. Then factor in a bit more dashiong wing play from Underwood

Look I know i know. But then this IS the thread for counterfactuals

Peaches · Post by **Peaches** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:57 am

Monk Zombie wrote:
MrDominator wrote:
BokJock wrote:
MrDominator wrote:1987 should clearly have an asterisk.

A basically professional NZ outfit, slipping their players cash on the side, up against genuinely amateur teams from everywhere else.

Makes the Saracens scandal look micky mouse in comparison.
And the only other professional* team not allowed to play.

*By professional I mean a bunch of South African Breweries “sales reps”
Exactly.

'87 should probably have two asterisks, to be honest.
what are you talking about? produce some facts please

No South Africa and home World Cup is big asterisks tbh.

Clogs · Post by **Clogs** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:14 am

ScarfaceClaw wrote:
BokJock wrote:
MrDominator wrote:1987 should clearly have an asterisk.

A basically professional NZ outfit, slipping their players cash on the side, up against genuinely amateur teams from everywhere else.

Makes the Saracens scandal look micky mouse in comparison.
And the only other professional* team not allowed to play.

*By professional I mean a bunch of South African Breweries “sales reps”
Why weren’t Sefrica at that World Cup?

Social distancing.

Wilderbeast · Post by **Wilderbeast** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:03 am

By asterisk, are you referring to super strong players souped up on drugs?

Auckman · Post by **Auckman** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:30 am

I think we must view world cups in terms of great referees who bring their long years of experience and unquestionable intellect to the making of a great occasion where we can all agree the right team won.

Craig Joubert is such a referee. A colossus of rugby and a credit to refereeing in all sports, let alone rugby. Oom Craig, thanks for your service to the game.

tubbyj · Post by **tubbyj** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:54 am

Yep Craig Joubert was both a great referee and a great servant of the game, which was the better for his involvement. For shame sullying his reputation.

Post by **Thomas** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:06 am

LandOTurk wrote:
Peaches wrote:What wins do you think were epic flukes or won by refs?

2011 comes to mind with numerous high tackles on the French missed by the ref in the final (Joubert?).
2011 SF with Warbs being red carded. French should never have been there. We would have creamed them with 15 men. Fcuk that asterisk.

Nah, that was the right decision. Warbs fucked up and was rightly sent off. The Welsh would have been annihilated in the final against NZ.

RuggaBugga · Post by **RuggaBugga** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:17 am

Thomas wrote:
LandOTurk wrote:
Peaches wrote:What wins do you think were epic flukes or won by refs?

2011 comes to mind with numerous high tackles on the French missed by the ref in the final (Joubert?).
2011 SF with Warbs being red carded. French should never have been there. We would have creamed them with 15 men. Fcuk that asterisk.
Nah, that was the right decision. Warbs fucked up and was rightly sent off. The Welsh would have been annihilated in the final against NZ.

Would it have been as bad as the wobs in the semi?

Post by **Thomas** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:32 am

RuggaBugga wrote:
Thomas wrote:
LandOTurk wrote:
Peaches wrote:What wins do you think were epic flukes or won by refs?

2011 comes to mind with numerous high tackles on the French missed by the ref in the final (Joubert?).
2011 SF with Warbs being red carded. French should never have been there. We would have creamed them with 15 men. Fcuk that asterisk.
Nah, that was the right decision. Warbs fucked up and was rightly sent off. The Welsh would have been annihilated in the final against NZ.
Would it have been as bad as the wobs in the semi?

Oh, way worse.

The ABs played their final in the semis. They knew they were going to play either Wales (lol) or France (??). Going on how they played against France (who did a France) I reckon they got stuck into a heap of beers and some snecky toilet actions after the Wallaby match.

Wales had a good team but the last time they beat the All Blacks was at home back when Enzedder had hair. They would have been destroyed by 30+.

mr bungle · Post by **mr bungle** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:50 am

Lemoentjie wrote:Honestly?

1987, 2011

The All Blacks dominance is so deep in your minds you always forget 1991, the other tourney you dicks were banned from.

CrazyIslander · Post by **CrazyIslander** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:06 am

I say let there be no asterisks. Everything including gold watches is allowed.

ScarfaceClaw · Post by **ScarfaceClaw** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:14 am

Clogs wrote:
ScarfaceClaw wrote:
BokJock wrote:
MrDominator wrote:1987 should clearly have an asterisk.

A basically professional NZ outfit, slipping their players cash on the side, up against genuinely amateur teams from everywhere else.

Makes the Saracens scandal look micky mouse in comparison.
And the only other professional* team not allowed to play.

*By professional I mean a bunch of South African Breweries “sales reps”
Why weren’t Sefrica at that World Cup?

Social distancing.

Well played. I’ll give you that one.

rett · Post by **rett** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:24 am

Monk Zombie wrote:
Peaches wrote:What wins do you think were epic flukes or won by refs?

2011 comes to mind with numerous high tackles on the French missed by the ref in the final (Joubert?).
plus Bryce Lawrence's handywork in the Bok/Wallaby quarter-final

Frankly I’m very surprised that the Saffers keep bringing this up. A team that prides themselves on their physicality (ahem) failed to overpower one little honest Aussie toiler.
Embarrassing.