Scummings going by Xmas..... Boris next year.

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sturginho
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by sturginho »

message #2527204 wrote:
piquant wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
ukjim wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
Applications and procedural chnages that would normally take years have been acheived in months, in some cases weeks or days.
like?
Nationwide PPE logistics system, nationwide testing system, an additional 10 000 hospital beds, nationwide network of volunteers, job retention scheme etc etc.

What are people expecting for fucks sake? what has tw@tter done to people?

I'm hoping for competency as a minimum, and even that I'd criticise. Frankly I'd criticise excellent because why pat them on the back, instead expect them to just get with the next thing, they're there to take stick to push them to improve things not be feted

Sadly we're not even close to competency these last few months
piquent is millionnaire Sir Kier Starmer?

You expect them to roll back time. How very metro bubble of you.
why don't you try some new material?
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SaintK
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by SaintK »

message #2527204 wrote:piquent is millionnaire Sir Kier Starmer?

You expect them to roll back time. How very metro bubble of you.
WTF is a "metro bubble"
piquant
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by piquant »

sturginho wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
piquent is millionnaire Sir Kier Starmer?

You expect them to roll back time. How very metro bubble of you.
why don't you try some new material?
You think renaming him Kier doesn't qualify as new material? That aside being labelled Keir Starmer is one of the nicest things someone has said to me
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message #2527204
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by message #2527204 »

piquant wrote:
sturginho wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
piquent is millionnaire Sir Kier Starmer?

You expect them to roll back time. How very metro bubble of you.
why don't you try some new material?
You think renaming him Kier doesn't qualify as new material? That aside being labelled Keir Starmer is one of the nicest things someone has said to me
I see you are as forensic as millionaire Sir Keir, too. Very forensic.
piquant
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by piquant »

message #2527204 wrote:
piquant wrote:
sturginho wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
piquent is millionnaire Sir Kier Starmer?

You expect them to roll back time. How very metro bubble of you.
why don't you try some new material?
You think renaming him Kier doesn't qualify as new material? That aside being labelled Keir Starmer is one of the nicest things someone has said to me
I see you are as forensic as millionaire Sir Keir, too. Very forensic.

I see your patois is similar to Tump's
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Insane_Homer
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by Insane_Homer »

David M Barnett @davidmbarnett

Breaking: Dominic Raab reveals Coronavirus originated “either on that Dustin Hoffman film Outbreak, or that really old movie, what’s it called, The Andromeda Strain, or something.”
:lol: :lol: :lol:
bimboman
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by bimboman »

SaintK wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
ukjim wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
Applications and procedural chnages that would normally take years have been acheived in months, in some cases weeks or days.
like?
Nationwide PPE logistics system, nationwide testing system, an additional 10 000 hospital beds, nationwide network of volunteers, job retention scheme etc etc.

What are people expecting for fucks sake? what has tw@tter done to people?
Dunno, you tell me you obviously use it I don't do social media

He posts on social media.
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message #2527204
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by message #2527204 »

piquant wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
piquant wrote:
sturginho wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
piquent is millionnaire Sir Kier Starmer?

You expect them to roll back time. How very metro bubble of you.
why don't you try some new material?
You think renaming him Kier doesn't qualify as new material? That aside being labelled Keir Starmer is one of the nicest things someone has said to me
I see you are as forensic as millionaire Sir Keir, too. Very forensic.

I see your patois is similar to Tump's
I'm glad your forensic attention to detail and competency can also make typos.

I'm not sure why the left feels the need to put politicians on pedestals as though they should be some different ort of human. I guess it's some part of their desire to reinstate class, and now racial, divisions in society.
Doubly bizarre given the status of millionaire Sir Kier who was also head of the CPS and director of public prosecutions.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by eldanielfire »

Anonymous. wrote:You've got EDF and these tory boy muppets tearing into MILLIONAIRE Sir Kier Starmer while the government lurches from scandal to failure to scandal to failure.
Eh? I've been nothing but critical about the Government in recent weeks but it hasn't stopped you keep obsessing and bringing up what I might say about Kier Starmer :lol:
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message #2527204
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by message #2527204 »

bimboman wrote:
SaintK wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
ukjim wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
Applications and procedural chnages that would normally take years have been acheived in months, in some cases weeks or days.
like?
Nationwide PPE logistics system, nationwide testing system, an additional 10 000 hospital beds, nationwide network of volunteers, job retention scheme etc etc.

What are people expecting for fucks sake? what has tw@tter done to people?
Dunno, you tell me you obviously use it I don't do social media
He posts on social media.
If that's a question, the answer's 'no I don't'. I have visibility because of this place, and it's horrific.
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Insane_Homer
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by Insane_Homer »

So the world class track and trace app is dead,

I'm totally not shocked.
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SaintK
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by SaintK »

Insane_Homer wrote:So the world class track and trace app is dead,

I'm totally not shocked.
But it was world class and going to be fully operational weeks ago. The blonde slug told us....and he never lies or bullshits
piquant
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by piquant »

message #2527204 wrote:
piquant wrote:

I see your patois is similar to Tump's
I'm glad your forensic attention to detail and competency can also make typos.

I'm not sure why the left feels the need to put politicians on pedestals as though they should be some different ort of human. I guess it's some part of their desire to reinstate class, and now racial, divisions in society.
Doubly bizarre given the status of millionaire Sir Kier who was also head of the CPS and director of public prosecutions.
I'm not perturbed Starmer is wealthy and I don't know I've ever said anything about wanting to reinstate class, though now you've said it I don't even know what that would mean. I'd prefer a society of less inequality, though I wouldn't spend time trying to remove all inequality
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happyhooker
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by happyhooker »

message #2527204 wrote: I'm not sure why the left feels the need to put politicians on pedestals as though they should be some different ort of human. I guess it's some part of their desire to reinstate class, and now racial, divisions in society.
Now I'm really confused. I thought it was the left who wanted to throw politicians off pedestals and the right were rallying round to defend them.

I was especially impressed with the defence of george Elliott in nuneaton
Biffer29
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by Biffer29 »

happyhooker wrote:
message #2527204 wrote: I'm not sure why the left feels the need to put politicians on pedestals as though they should be some different ort of human. I guess it's some part of their desire to reinstate class, and now racial, divisions in society.
Now I'm really confused. I thought it was the left who wanted to throw politicians off pedestals and the right were rallying round to defend them.

I was especially impressed with the defence of george Elliott in nuneaton
I particularly loved the Rangers fans and Orange Order wankers in Glasgow protecting the statue of Robert Peel. That's Robert Peel, who brought in legislation ending anti-catholic discrimination, allowing catholics to sit in parliament and generally take roles in public life in the UK.
bimboman
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by bimboman »

Biffer29 wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
message #2527204 wrote: I'm not sure why the left feels the need to put politicians on pedestals as though they should be some different ort of human. I guess it's some part of their desire to reinstate class, and now racial, divisions in society.
Now I'm really confused. I thought it was the left who wanted to throw politicians off pedestals and the right were rallying round to defend them.

I was especially impressed with the defence of george Elliott in nuneaton
I particularly loved the Rangers fans and Orange Order wankers in Glasgow protecting the statue of Robert Peel. That's Robert Peel, who brought in legislation ending anti-catholic discrimination, allowing catholics to sit in parliament and generally take roles in public life in the UK.

Sounds like they’re less bigoted than you.
Biffer29
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by Biffer29 »

bimboman wrote:
Biffer29 wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
message #2527204 wrote: I'm not sure why the left feels the need to put politicians on pedestals as though they should be some different ort of human. I guess it's some part of their desire to reinstate class, and now racial, divisions in society.
Now I'm really confused. I thought it was the left who wanted to throw politicians off pedestals and the right were rallying round to defend them.

I was especially impressed with the defence of george Elliott in nuneaton
I particularly loved the Rangers fans and Orange Order wankers in Glasgow protecting the statue of Robert Peel. That's Robert Peel, who brought in legislation ending anti-catholic discrimination, allowing catholics to sit in parliament and generally take roles in public life in the UK.


Sounds like they’re less bigoted than you.
Fukk off you Kunt
bimboman
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by bimboman »

I reckon they can handle the quote functions as well.
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message #2527204
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by message #2527204 »

happyhooker wrote:
message #2527204 wrote: I'm not sure why the left feels the need to put politicians on pedestals as though they should be some different ort of human. I guess it's some part of their desire to reinstate class, and now racial, divisions in society.
Now I'm really confused. I thought it was the left who wanted to throw politicians off pedestals and the right were rallying round to defend them.

I was especially impressed with the defence of george Elliott in nuneaton
That's the shit gravestone isn't it?
I thought at first it was being protected from a bunch of irate feminist Jane Austen fans,
shereblue
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by shereblue »

eldanielfire wrote:
shereblue wrote:EDF:

"Matthew Goodwin points out when these historic shifts are made, they do not usually flow back"

Would be interesting to see the link.

I can understand that turning round a big deficit is harder than turning round a small one, sure. However red, white and blue Churchill was comprehensively stuffed by the quieter but more apparently competent Attlee after the war. Only for the Cons to win the next election.
The cons won the next election on a technicality really. Labour then still had the popular vote in a knife edge election. However the electoral deficit Labour has to overcome has never been accomplished and currently Labour doesn't have the language tools to do it. Ever since the late 90's they have had a weakening grasp on their working class heartlands and have increasingly become culturally disconnected, largely because the leadership keeps talking and listening to the wrong people. Basically it's been easy for the Tories to move left economically in recent years to appeal to the masses, but Labour seem determined to consolidate their cultural move away from the masses.
There is also some interesting polling data commented upon in the Spectator indicating that the "historic" Red Wall may not be quite as pro No Deal as the Tory zealots and their puppets would like to claim. Too much zealotry and a struggling economy may not go down well even if former EU Regional Funding is re-directed increasingly to those seats.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the ... eal-brexit

Bimbo will come along and remind me that another election is 4 years away, there is a big majority and he will be right on that. Perhaps too early for psephology?
I agree the red wall won't be a zealot about no deal, but most Brexiters are not anyway. It's a valid take the government should consider. But I don't think Boris wants no deal, as I said years ago, you need to be willing to go all the way with the EU. May's negotiations showed that while they have a lot of bluster the EU really wants or knows it needs a deal with the UK. It have multiple extensions before and are begging for an extension. Boris is willing to force them to play that hand, May wasn't because she wanted a deal that would make Remainers happy, but accidentally encouraged Remainer opposition. I believe they will go for a deal, Boris may well need to do a last minute extension or two to get the details and compromise on both sides.

BTW, the poll quoted was taken by 'Best for Britain', they aren't neutral pollsters, they are a pressure group who initially where set-up to keep Britain in the EU and create campaigns with the likes of Gina Miller. They are partly responsible for helping the likes of Starmer there was a genuine appetite for a 2nd referendum and to oppose May's deals which in turn led to the disastrous election for Labour in 2019. Their CEO Naomi Smith has spent years somehow making various claims that polls show the UK doesn't want Brexit of various varieties. I wouldn't call them the most accurate engagement of the publics opinions, they seem to get what they want to hear and then weirdly it doesn't quite match the reality a I explained.
Fair point on the Best for Britain think tank. Much depends on the phrasing and sequence of questions. Not to say the data lacks any validity.

I was surprised by your comment on the overturning of Attlee's majority (over all other parties) so checked it:
Labour maj of 146 in 1945 became a Tory majority of 17 in 6 years (after a virtual draw in 1950)

For good measure, MacMillan lost a 100 majority in 1959 to Wilson in 1964 before Wilson himself later lost a majority of 98 in 1966 to Heath in 1970.

Third parties have enjoyed a resurgence since those days and our "not fit for purpose" electoral system either gravely undervalues those votes (LibDems) or stratospherically enhances them (Scots Nats).

I fear most people will be enduring a hard slog economically up to 2024 when I anticipate a continuation of the meaningless Tory tactic of covering itself in the flag. Perhaps, as with Churchill's defeat by Attlee after the war, the public will be less minded to buy into that and go for an appearance of dull competence? I would hope so, not because I'd like Labour to win but because corruption and venality begin to set in when a Party or leader remain too long in power (see US constitution, Thatcher:Major, Blair:Brown etc).

Meanwhile we'll all be doing our best for ourselves and our country regardless of the hand we are given.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by eldanielfire »

shereblue wrote:ich in turn led to the disastrous election for Labour in 2019. Their CEO Naomi Smith has spent ye
Fair point on the Best for Britain think tank. Much depends on the phrasing and sequence of questions. Not to say the data lacks any validity.
As I said the general trend is right, most Brexiteers want a deal.
I was surprised by your comment on the overturning of Attlee's majority (over all other parties) so checked it:
Labour maj of 146 in 1945 became a Tory majority of 17 in 6 years (after a virtual draw in 1950)

For good measure, MacMillan lost a 100 majority in 1959 to Wilson in 1964 before Wilson himself later lost a majority of 98 in 1966 to Heath in 1970.

Third parties have enjoyed a resurgence since those days and our "not fit for purpose" electoral system either gravely undervalues those votes (LibDems) or stratospherically enhances them (Scots Nats).

I fear most people will be enduring a hard slog economically up to 2024 when I anticipate a continuation of the meaningless Tory tactic of covering itself in the flag. Perhaps, as with Churchill's defeat by Attlee after the war, the public will be less minded to buy into that and go for an appearance of dull competence? I would hope so, not because I'd like Labour to win but because corruption and venality begin to set in when a Party or leader remain too long in power (see US constitution, Thatcher:Major, Blair:Brown etc).

Meanwhile we'll all be doing our best for ourselves and our country regardless of the hand we are given.
One of my frustrations of the past 40 years f politics is that we have only had long cycles of one party in power. It's why I would want the 5 year term to be made 4 max. Of course we are also in a weird one, Boris is more of a Tory maverick, he was always the enemy within of both Cameron and May's governments. However he's clearly going in a new economic direction to the Cameron-Osborn austerity of old and the stagnant May years.

Which is why I find him feeling almost like a new start. Also we have only had 3 years of actual Tory majority government in the past 10 years. I'm not hugely partisan for either political party but I was for years droning on about how Labour's 2017 manifesto was the one we needed as a country which is why I'm following this governments intent to spend to invest and to see if they do it.
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PCPhil
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by PCPhil »

Christ, Matt is really rolling out the bull tonight.
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SaintK
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by SaintK »

PCPhil wrote:Christ, Matt is really rolling out the bull tonight.
It's as if these twats live in a different dimension and can't recall what they promised just weeks ago
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by PCPhil »

SaintK wrote:
PCPhil wrote:Christ, Matt is really rolling out the bull tonight.
It's as if these twats live in a different dimension and can't recall what they promised just weeks ago
They think if they repeat it often enough it will become reality in everyone's mind. Probably is reality to the mindset that only takes 35s for a structured post.
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SaintK
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by SaintK »

Four weeks to the day. That's some case of amnesia!!!
Matt Hancock today: "We backed both horses" - and worked on two apps at once.

Department of Health told me in an on-record statement on May 18: "There is no alternative app."

Doesn't look great on the face of it. Hope no one tells the guy who runs the Department of Health.
Full statement from May 18 here -https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... s-22043700

“There is no alternative app and the NHS continues to work constructively with many other organisations that are helping to develop and test the NHS COVID-19 App."
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by bimboman »

SaintK wrote:Four weeks to the day. That's some case of amnesia!!!
Matt Hancock today: "We backed both horses" - and worked on two apps at once.

Department of Health told me in an on-record statement on May 18: "There is no alternative app."

Doesn't look great on the face of it. Hope no one tells the guy who runs the Department of Health.
Full statement from May 18 here -https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... s-22043700

“There is no alternative app and the NHS continues to work constructively with many other organisations that are helping to develop and test the NHS COVID-19 App."

Work constructively with.

He went in to explain what happened.
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by Anonymous 1 »

eldanielfire wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:You've got EDF and these tory boy muppets tearing into MILLIONAIRE Sir Kier Starmer while the government lurches from scandal to failure to scandal to failure.
Eh? I've been nothing but critical about the Government in recent weeks but it hasn't stopped you keep obsessing and bringing up what I might say about Kier Starmer :lol:
Your weird and repeated lies about him a few weeks ago will for sometime inform my thinking on whatever you say about him. That is true
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by eldanielfire »

Anonymous. wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:You've got EDF and these tory boy muppets tearing into MILLIONAIRE Sir Kier Starmer while the government lurches from scandal to failure to scandal to failure.
Eh? I've been nothing but critical about the Government in recent weeks but it hasn't stopped you keep obsessing and bringing up what I might say about Kier Starmer :lol:
Your weird and repeated lies about him a few weeks ago will for sometime inform my thinking on whatever you say about him. That is true
I can only call what has been reported. I didn't lie. Not that the more detailed and nuanced criticisms fo both Starmer and the government would ever inform due to your desperation to troll.
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by Frodder »

What did super Matt say about the app going South?
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by PCPhil »

Frodder wrote:What did super Matt say about the app going South?
He said it’s not my fault, I didn’t do it, I never said it would be ready by June, might be ready by Autumn or Winter but I’m not promising anything, anymore now f off the lot of you. Something like that.
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by shereblue »

eldanielfire wrote:
shereblue wrote:ich in turn led to the disastrous election for Labour in 2019. Their CEO Naomi Smith has spent ye
Fair point on the Best for Britain think tank. Much depends on the phrasing and sequence of questions. Not to say the data lacks any validity.
As I said the general trend is right, most Brexiteers want a deal.
I was surprised by your comment on the overturning of Attlee's majority (over all other parties) so checked it:
Labour maj of 146 in 1945 became a Tory majority of 17 in 6 years (after a virtual draw in 1950)

For good measure, MacMillan lost a 100 majority in 1959 to Wilson in 1964 before Wilson himself later lost a majority of 98 in 1966 to Heath in 1970.

Third parties have enjoyed a resurgence since those days and our "not fit for purpose" electoral system either gravely undervalues those votes (LibDems) or stratospherically enhances them (Scots Nats).

I fear most people will be enduring a hard slog economically up to 2024 when I anticipate a continuation of the meaningless Tory tactic of covering itself in the flag. Perhaps, as with Churchill's defeat by Attlee after the war, the public will be less minded to buy into that and go for an appearance of dull competence? I would hope so, not because I'd like Labour to win but because corruption and venality begin to set in when a Party or leader remain too long in power (see US constitution, Thatcher:Major, Blair:Brown etc).

Meanwhile we'll all be doing our best for ourselves and our country regardless of the hand we are given.
One of my frustrations of the past 40 years f politics is that we have only had long cycles of one party in power. It's why I would want the 5 year term to be made 4 max. Of course we are also in a weird one, Boris is more of a Tory maverick, he was always the enemy within of both Cameron and May's governments. However he's clearly going in a new economic direction to the Cameron-Osborn austerity of old and the stagnant May years.

Which is why I find him feeling almost like a new start. Also we have only had 3 years of actual Tory majority government in the past 10 years. I'm not hugely partisan for either political party but I was for years droning on about how Labour's 2017 manifesto was the one we needed as a country which is why I'm following this governments intent to spend to invest and to see if they do it.
Post Covid, we're in new territory now. As is most of the world. Johnson didn't ask for this tbf. His opportunist Brexitism aside, I'd have taken him after the hapless May.

In terms of 5 year predictions, Johnson sits in a world where more bets are now off than ever* before. Interesting times. How they will fit in with electoral cycles is truly up in the air. God knows what the story will be meanwhile.

I just think reliable competence may be a winning contrast as compared to flag waving optimism if the economy is still not looking good for most.

*exaggeration ;)
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by bimboman »

Frodder wrote:What did super Matt say about the app going South?

He protected the NHS again.
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by Frodder »

bimboman wrote:
Frodder wrote:What did super Matt say about the app going South?

He protected the NHS again.
#clapforMatt
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by piquant »

shereblue wrote: Johnson didn't ask for this tbf.
Though he's not had much to say about stopping a repeat performance. (He's hardly the only one, but still, he's stuck not wanting to do the inconvenient and unpopular)
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by eldanielfire »

shereblue wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
shereblue wrote:ich in turn led to the disastrous election for Labour in 2019. Their CEO Naomi Smith has spent ye
Fair point on the Best for Britain think tank. Much depends on the phrasing and sequence of questions. Not to say the data lacks any validity.
As I said the general trend is right, most Brexiteers want a deal.
I was surprised by your comment on the overturning of Attlee's majority (over all other parties) so checked it:
Labour maj of 146 in 1945 became a Tory majority of 17 in 6 years (after a virtual draw in 1950)

For good measure, MacMillan lost a 100 majority in 1959 to Wilson in 1964 before Wilson himself later lost a majority of 98 in 1966 to Heath in 1970.

Third parties have enjoyed a resurgence since those days and our "not fit for purpose" electoral system either gravely undervalues those votes (LibDems) or stratospherically enhances them (Scots Nats).

I fear most people will be enduring a hard slog economically up to 2024 when I anticipate a continuation of the meaningless Tory tactic of covering itself in the flag. Perhaps, as with Churchill's defeat by Attlee after the war, the public will be less minded to buy into that and go for an appearance of dull competence? I would hope so, not because I'd like Labour to win but because corruption and venality begin to set in when a Party or leader remain too long in power (see US constitution, Thatcher:Major, Blair:Brown etc).

Meanwhile we'll all be doing our best for ourselves and our country regardless of the hand we are given.
One of my frustrations of the past 40 years f politics is that we have only had long cycles of one party in power. It's why I would want the 5 year term to be made 4 max. Of course we are also in a weird one, Boris is more of a Tory maverick, he was always the enemy within of both Cameron and May's governments. However he's clearly going in a new economic direction to the Cameron-Osborn austerity of old and the stagnant May years.

Which is why I find him feeling almost like a new start. Also we have only had 3 years of actual Tory majority government in the past 10 years. I'm not hugely partisan for either political party but I was for years droning on about how Labour's 2017 manifesto was the one we needed as a country which is why I'm following this governments intent to spend to invest and to see if they do it.
Post Covid, we're in new territory now. As is most of the world. Johnson didn't ask for this tbf. His opportunist Brexitism aside, I'd have taken him after the hapless May.

In terms of 5 year predictions, Johnson sits in a world where more bets are now off than ever* before. Interesting times. How they will fit in with electoral cycles is truly up in the air. God knows what the story will be meanwhile.

I just think reliable competence may be a winning contrast as compared to flag waving optimism if the economy is still not looking good for most.

*exaggeration ;)
I think in 5 years the economy will be on the up. Britain is to robust that way, as are all the major western economies. As 2008 showed. Johnson will also be able to claim credit in the long term for the generous Furlong scheme and support and claim most jobs were saved thanks to that.

I also think Johnson is what Napoleon always wanted,a lucky general. May did all the unpopular work on the divorce deal and Boris took the credit for getting it through when in reality the whole circus had pissed of the public. the short term effects of Brexit (which I said there almost certainly would be) will be masked by the Pandemic. The Pandemic may will pressurise the EU to more compromise due to them being much more fragile economically they wouldn't want to be in a 'spite your face' situation just to look like they have the bigger dick. right now. Even if the negotiations carry on past the deadline. Likewise the seeds for a more popularist leader where planted in the Blair-Brown-Cameron era, in most countries it's been an opposition to reaped the benefits, but here it was Johnson not Labour received the benefits of. Helped of course by Labour's political thinking moving ever more into it's insular bubble. Johnson is very much a lucky leader.

Johnson position reminds me of Blair a lot, Blair took a ton of criticism though his leadership even prior to Iraq, The F1 cash donation for sponsorship, introducing student fees, Peter Mandleson's couple of incidents to be fired twice, the Fireman strike, the Millennium Dome elephant etc. All big negative headline in their day
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eldanielfire
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by eldanielfire »

piquant wrote:
shereblue wrote: Johnson didn't ask for this tbf.
Though he's not had much to say about stopping a repeat performance. (He's hardly the only one, but still, he's stuck not wanting to do the inconvenient and unpopular)
What do you think he should do?
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Rinkals
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by Rinkals »

SaintK wrote:
PCPhil wrote:Christ, Matt is really rolling out the bull tonight.
It's as if these twats live in a different dimension and can't recall what they promised just weeks ago
It's ok: neither can their supporters on here, so it's all good. :thumbup:
ovalball
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by ovalball »

eldanielfire wrote:
shereblue wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
shereblue wrote:ich in turn led to the disastrous election for Labour in 2019. Their CEO Naomi Smith has spent ye
Fair point on the Best for Britain think tank. Much depends on the phrasing and sequence of questions. Not to say the data lacks any validity.
As I said the general trend is right, most Brexiteers want a deal.
I was surprised by your comment on the overturning of Attlee's majority (over all other parties) so checked it:
Labour maj of 146 in 1945 became a Tory majority of 17 in 6 years (after a virtual draw in 1950)

For good measure, MacMillan lost a 100 majority in 1959 to Wilson in 1964 before Wilson himself later lost a majority of 98 in 1966 to Heath in 1970.

Third parties have enjoyed a resurgence since those days and our "not fit for purpose" electoral system either gravely undervalues those votes (LibDems) or stratospherically enhances them (Scots Nats).

I fear most people will be enduring a hard slog economically up to 2024 when I anticipate a continuation of the meaningless Tory tactic of covering itself in the flag. Perhaps, as with Churchill's defeat by Attlee after the war, the public will be less minded to buy into that and go for an appearance of dull competence? I would hope so, not because I'd like Labour to win but because corruption and venality begin to set in when a Party or leader remain too long in power (see US constitution, Thatcher:Major, Blair:Brown etc).

Meanwhile we'll all be doing our best for ourselves and our country regardless of the hand we are given.
One of my frustrations of the past 40 years f politics is that we have only had long cycles of one party in power. It's why I would want the 5 year term to be made 4 max. Of course we are also in a weird one, Boris is more of a Tory maverick, he was always the enemy within of both Cameron and May's governments. However he's clearly going in a new economic direction to the Cameron-Osborn austerity of old and the stagnant May years.

Which is why I find him feeling almost like a new start. Also we have only had 3 years of actual Tory majority government in the past 10 years. I'm not hugely partisan for either political party but I was for years droning on about how Labour's 2017 manifesto was the one we needed as a country which is why I'm following this governments intent to spend to invest and to see if they do it.
Post Covid, we're in new territory now. As is most of the world. Johnson didn't ask for this tbf. His opportunist Brexitism aside, I'd have taken him after the hapless May.

In terms of 5 year predictions, Johnson sits in a world where more bets are now off than ever* before. Interesting times. How they will fit in with electoral cycles is truly up in the air. God knows what the story will be meanwhile.

I just think reliable competence may be a winning contrast as compared to flag waving optimism if the economy is still not looking good for most.

*exaggeration ;)
I think in 5 years the economy will be on the up. Britain is to robust that way, as are all the major western economies. As 2008 showed. Johnson will also be able to claim credit in the long term for the generous Furlong scheme and support and claim most jobs were saved thanks to that.

I also think Johnson is what Napoleon always wanted,a lucky general. May did all the unpopular work on the divorce deal and Boris took the credit for getting it through when in reality the whole circus had pissed of the public. the short term effects of Brexit (which I said there almost certainly would be) will be masked by the Pandemic. The Pandemic may will pressurise the EU to more compromise due to them being much more fragile economically they wouldn't want to be in a 'spite your face' situation just to look like they have the bigger dick. right now. Even if the negotiations carry on past the deadline. Likewise the seeds for a more popularist leader where planted in the Blair-Brown-Cameron era, in most countries it's been an opposition to reaped the benefits, but here it was Johnson not Labour received the benefits of. Helped of course by Labour's political thinking moving ever more into it's insular bubble. Johnson is very much a lucky leader.

Johnson position reminds me of Blair a lot, Blair took a ton of criticism though his leadership even prior to Iraq, The F1 cash donation for sponsorship, introducing student fees, Peter Mandleson's couple of incidents to be fired twice, the Fireman strike, the Millennium Dome elephant etc. All big negative headline in their day
He, and his Government, may not come out of the post Covid review very well - that could be extremely damaging. Not sure he'll be seen as being that lucky.

And, if he fails to deliver a Brexit trade agreement with the EU...............
bimboman
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by bimboman »

And, if he fails to deliver a Brexit trade agreement with the EU...............
His popularity will rise.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Boris goooooone or just Cummings?

Post by eldanielfire »

ovalball wrote:
He, and his Government, may not come out of the post Covid review very well - that could be extremely damaging. Not sure he'll be seen as being that lucky.

And, if he fails to deliver a Brexit trade agreement with the EU..............
Let's be honest, when has a big government review ever really damaged a government? FFS every review of the Iraq war basically let's Blair off.

They'll just say we followed the Science. The report will say they should consider more in future, look at other evidence, point out the actions were broadly in line with the rest of Europe and no one could get PPE, every country f#cked up on care homes and no one could get any tests blah blah blah.
Last edited by eldanielfire on Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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