Chat Forum
It is currently Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:40 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:57 pm
Posts: 11172
As there are a few people I know play piano on here, I'd appreciate some thoughts / advice...

I want to learn to play piano / keyboards "properly" (see below for my definition of this) and wondered about how best to go about it.

I am reasonably proficient musically - I've played guitar for a long time and can play most things I want to. I also played tuba in a decent brass band for several years. I've also passed grade 8 theory of music (though this was many years ago).

I've never had piano / keyboard lessons, but as there were always keyboards around in the various bands I've played in, and as I now have a piano and a selection of fantastic synth and piano software, over the years I picked up enough that I can play left hand chords / right hand single melody to simple tunes or right hand only synth riffs reasonably proficiently.

I now find that I'm more interested in playing piano / keyboard than guitar and my inability to play stuff I want to play is frustrating. So I want to learn to play "properly". By this I mean be able to play decent arrangements of rock / pop songs or more complex synth stuff. I don't have any real interest in learning classical pieces, but I don't mind investing time in learning some fundamentals, practicing scales etc. I also know this is a long term commitment - which I am not worried about.

I know that getting a piano teacher will probably be the advice that most people give, but I wondered if in the modern world of youtube and software, if there were any other approaches that people thought might be worth exploring (for example, a piano equivalent for the stuff Justin Sandercoe has pruduced for guitar)?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 5522
Location: By the mighty beard of Adam Jones
Can't recommend any YouTube as I've never really looked into it for Piano. I reckon with your background you could probably get a long way just buying (or downloading) sheet music of stuff you want to play and just learning it. There are technical aspects of playing piano of course (like fast runs especially octave runs and so on, pedal technique, trills and the like) but that's the sort of stuff you could specifically YouTube as required.

This is a good book if you want to start down the road of improvising - although with your musical knowledge you might find it hard to know where to start as the first few chapters are very basic in terms of theory. But throughout there are good exercises to get you working on improvisation:

Linky

It leads into two volumes on Jazz piano/improvisation by the same author.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:57 pm
Posts: 11172
Womack wrote:
Can't recommend any YouTube as I've never really looked into it for Piano. I reckon with your background you could probably get a long way just buying (or downloading) sheet music of stuff you want to play and just learning it. There are technical aspects of playing piano of course (like fast runs especially octave runs and so on, pedal technique, trills and the like) but that's the sort of stuff you could specifically YouTube as required.

This is a good book if you want to start down the road of improvising - although with your musical knowledge you might find it hard to know where to start as the first few chapters are very basic in terms of theory. But throughout there are good exercises to get you working on improvisation:

Linky

It leads into two volumes on Jazz piano/improvisation by the same author.


Thanks. I'm not really into improvisation - even on guitar. The nearest I ever want to get to Jazz is the Hendrix chord.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:29 pm
Posts: 38
Hi Ade,

I got a lovely Alesis keyboard for Xmas having dropped severval very large hints about looking for a hobby as i wind down from work. I am a complete novice, having only sung choir in my youth and my sight reading is kak.

However, I'm quite enjoying using Skoove (downlaod onto your Ipad and stick it on the music stand). Starts from absolute basics and uses some classic tunes to help (we will rock you, American Pie etc).

If anyone has any other tips for newbies, please do share.

Happy new year all


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:15 am
Posts: 585
Sounds like you have a solid base in theory and your biggest challenge will be hand independance, which I suppose you could find specific exercises for. If you don't mind learning some classical as a form of exercise, you could try some Czerny studies but this may be a little beyond your desired scope. It shouldn't be too hard to find a book of simpler exercises with a pop or jazz twist. I think it would be highly worthwhile having at least a few introductory lessons with a teacher, from whom you could obtain some decent book references. You can always desist after a few lessons.

:thumbup:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 5522
Location: By the mighty beard of Adam Jones
Bumping this old thread. I've been using the extra time/boredom in lockdown to work through the Improvising Blues Piano book I linked below - it really is a good book and I've been making progress with it. Along with following the standard curriculum of the book, another thing I've been doing is transposing some of the early exercises, working round the circle of fifths - which is a bit slow and painful at present but should be worthwhile in the long run.

One happy side effect of this is that I've finally got to grips with something that has been bugging me for ages. I could never understand the fuss about music being written in specific keys. About the closest I could come to understanding it was in terms of the timbre of certain instruments (or indeed voices) being best suited to certain keys, and of course tuning considerations for certain instruments like brass and woodwind. But aside from those 'physical' (if you like) considerations, I never got why key mattered - my view was that music is just a collection of intervals and those intervals interact together in the same way no matter where on the scale they are transposed.

In actually transposing stuff on a keyboard (and I think it required the physical requirements of playing a keyboard to make me begin to understand this, but maybe I would have got it on a different instrument too), what I've come to realise is that although the intervalic (is that a word?) relationships between notes in a composition might be the same, they have to occupy a position in the frequency spectrum and some positions simply work better than others. The most obvious way to explain this is with a bass part. If you transpose something up a fifth, say from C to G, the bass pattern will either have to move up a fifth and may well not be bassy enough as a result, or down a fourth and might then be too deep, making it sound muddy. There is a sweet spot within the frequency spectrum for any given set of intervals beyond the basic requirements of instrumentation (although of course this comes into it too), and part of the craft of composition is understanding that and choosing the key appropriately.

I know this probably seems very obvious but it's something that I've simply never appreciated before so it was a bit of a 'Eureka' moment when the penny dropped. This seemed like as good a place as any to share it - it's just a shame that my coruscating insight will soon be lost for to the ages, when the bored is finally laid to rest.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:57 pm
Posts: 11172
Wow - thread necromancy.

I'm still working on improving my piano - albeit with a bit of a break when work got stupidly busy for a few months.

I found this to be a good resource with lots of tunes I want to learn:

https://hdpiano.com/home/

I've also taken delivery of a Yamaha Modx8 so I have a nice weighted action keyboard in my guitar room as well as in the living room so I can practice without annoying everyone else (and it also has a fantastic synth engine as well - including everything a DX7 could do and a lot more)

The "independent hands" thing is definitely improving - though I'm still miles away from where I wasn't to get to.

One thing I've learned - playing the bass line to Back in Black on the piano is even more epic than playing the riffs from Kashmir or the Immigrants Song on guitar.

Re transposing - If you are moving as far as a forth or fifth, you probably need to re-orchestrate for the reasons you state (plus possibly moving things outside the range of the instruments / singer if you are not talking about piano / keyboards).

Also, on guitar, a very subtle thing is that open strings sound different to fretted strings and there are some things you can do with open strings (such as letting them ring) which you can't do with fretted string and vice versa (like palm muting) so many guitarists will retune if they have to transpose even a semi-tone and are relying on particular playing techniques.

Down tuning (to D or even C) is beloved of metal bands because it make everything sound "darker".


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: eldanielfire, Farva, Google Adsense [Bot], Jake, Jeff the Bear, Liathroidigloine, Oxbow, Property, Risteard, RuggaBugga, SaintK and 81 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group