Who won WWII - How nations view who ultimately won it

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YOYO
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Who won WWII - How nations view who ultimately won it

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https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.voanews ... r-ii%3famp

From Sunday Times article (behind pay wall. I think transcript is pretty much in the 1st article)
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/who- ... -8wpcr0wwr

This is a poll done I believe by the Times.
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America is seen as ultimately been responsible for winning the war. The Soviet Union accounted for 75% of German military deaths and took a colossal loss themselves. Britain was the first of the allies to enter war with Germany.

Interestingly British people seek their country as being responsible for winning the war. The rest of the allied nations pollsters do not agree.
Which Country Was Instrumental in Winning World War II?

By Jamie Dettmer
May 9, 2020 05:20 PM
A man poses for a photo with a red flag in front of the closed Red Square during the 75th anniversary of the Nazi defeat in…
A man poses for a photo with a red flag in front of the closed Red Square during the 75th anniversary of the Nazi defeat in World War II in Moscow, Russia, May 9, 2020.
Russia on Saturday marked the 75th anniversary of the end of the Second World War in Europe, a day after its erstwhile Western allies in the fight against Nazi Germany.

It was the continuation of a tradition dating to the era of Communist dictator Joseph Stalin, who dismissed the Nazi surrender to the Western allies signed in Reims, France, on May 8, 1945, insisting on another signing of the capitulation the next day in the German capital, Berlin, which had fallen to Soviet forces.

That isn’t the only difference between how the wartime allies remember a conflict that remains, for some, a dominating, albeit shifting, cultural reference point in contemporary national identities.

Subsequent politics and propaganda, reassessments and the emergence of new wartime facts, as well as changing cultural tastes and the immediate needs of political leaders and peoples of the day, have altered memory. They also have changed over time how the end of the devastating struggle is marked, as well as how it is remembered, say historians.

In this two photo combination picture, top photo shows people carry portraits of relatives who fought in World War II, during…
The top photo shows people with portraits of relatives who fought in World War II, on the 74th anniversary of the victory in the war, in Red Square in Moscow, Russia, May 9, 2019; at bottom, a nearly empty Red Square on the 75th anniversary.
Russia has celebrated victory in what it calls “the Great Patriotic War” every year since 1945, but commemoration has undergone a makeover. Parades were often staged without tanks and missiles rumbling across Red Square under the baleful eyes of septuagenarian and octogenarian Communist Party secretaries.

Under the leadership of Russian President Vladimir Putin, however, Victory Day has become a bigger and more militaristic affair, one in which advanced military hardware has been showcased, and Stalin has been lauded in a recasting of patriotism.

But this year, thanks to the coronavirus, the big Moscow celebration scheduled for the 75th anniversary of VE Day was canceled. It was much the same in the rest of Europe, which saw governments shelve plans for brass bands and packed crowds, military parades, concerts and street parties.

Some things never change, though.

In his book Inferno: The World at War, 1939-1945, British military historian Max Hastings notes that each of the victorious nations "emerged from the Second World War confident in the belief that its own role had been decisive in procuring victory.”

Who the key player was in the defeat of the Nazis in Europe remains an issue — canceled celebrations and the pandemic notwithstanding.

While most see the United States as having played the crucial role in vanquishing Adolf Hitler, the British, according to polling data released this week, see themselves as having played the biggest part in the war effort — although they acknowledge that the Nazis would not have been overcome without the Soviet Union bleeding Germany’s Wehrmacht on the Eastern Front.

US credited

In contrast, Americans, Germans and the French believe the U.S. war effort ultimately was the most significant contribution in achieving victory in Europe, according to a survey conducted by British pollster YouGov. Recent polls conducted in Russia, however, show Russians are convinced they’re the ones deserving the main credit for Hitler’s defeat — a reflection, possibly, of the huge death toll the country suffered in the war.

An estimated 25 million to 31 million Russians were killed in the conflict — 16 million of them civilians, and more than 8 million from the Red Army. Russians also point to the fact that Soviet forces killed more German soldiers than their Western counterparts, accounting for 76 percent of Germany’s military dead.

Some military historians say death tolls and the number of casualties shouldn’t be seen as reflecting necessarily what was crucial in the defeat of the Nazis. The Allied victory was more complicated than the heroic sacrifice of Soviet soldiers. Historian Anthony Beevor told Britain’s The Times newspaper that Stalin was more callous than Western leaders, who tried to minimize casualties.

Police officers help Vakhtang Adamashvili, 94, a WWII with a portrait a portrait of Soviet dictator Josef Stalin…
Police help Vakhtang Adamashvili, 94, a WWII veteran with a portrait of Soviet dictator Josef Stalin, attend a ceremony in Victory Park marking the 75th anniversary of the Nazi defeat in World War II, in Tbilisi, Georgia, May 9, 2020.
“The Red Army dispatched militiamen into attacks without any weapons and basically expected them to stop Panzer divisions with their own bodies,” he said. “They were suffering a 42 percent fatal casualty rate. They just threw away a quarter of a million lives.” Others say Western attitudes toward the Soviet Union are colored by the fact that Stalin concluded a nonaggression pact with Hitler in 1939 that was instrumental in allowing the Nazi leader to unleash a world war, before turning his attention to Russia.

The U.S. mobilized about the same number of troops as Russia but fought on more major front lines — not only in Europe but also in the Pacific and North Africa. American war production — its ability to churn out astounding numbers of bombers, tanks and warships — was possibly the key war-winning factor, say some historians, who point out American factories produced more airplanes than all of the other major war powers combined.

US supplies

And without U.S. supplies, the Soviet war effort would have been massively diminished. America supplied Stalin with 400,000 trucks, 2,000 locomotives, more than 10,000 rail rolling stock and billions of dollars' worth of warplanes, tanks, food and clothing. At the same time, the U.S. also supplied nearly a quarter of Britain’s munitions.

“We were lucky to have America as an ally,” Russian historian Anatoly Razumov told VOA recently. He said American technology and supplies formed the base of Russia’s war effort. “And we want to close our eyes to that. It’s shameful! Sometimes I talk to ordinary people who don’t want to understand. We were together during the war. How would it be if we hadn’t had this help? It was not a victory of just one country over Hitler. It was a victory of the whole world over him.”

That view was echoed 75 years ago by Winston Churchill, Britain’s iconic wartime leader, when at 3 p.m. (London time) on May 8, 1945, he broadcast to the British people to announce victory in Europe.

FILE - Winston Churchill approaches microphones to make a speech in January 1939. The British wartime leader played a principal role in drafting the European Convention on Human Rights.
FILE - Winston Churchill approaches microphones to make a speech in January 1939.
He recapped his nation’s lonely stand against Hitler in 1940, but he highlighted the gradual appearance of “great allies” in the fight, suggesting victory had been achieved because of a combined effort. “Finally,” he said, “the whole world was combined against the evildoers, who are now prostrate before us.”

Churchill concluded his broadcast: “We may allow ourselves a brief period of rejoicing. … Advance Britannia! Long live the cause of freedom! God save the king!”

Britons allowed themselves a respite Friday from coronavirus woes to mark VE Day. The celebration was a more muted and stationary affair than had been planned, as it was in neighboring France and elsewhere in Europe. Parisians waved the French tricolor from balconies. Britons had tea parties in their gardens and along their streets — making sure they remained a safe distance from each other as they raised a glass to the countless individual sacrifices that led to victory in Europe in 1945.

Queen's broadcast

How the war was won — who deserves the lion’s share of credit — seemed lost at the moment of quiet celebration and as they listened to a broadcast by Queen Elizabeth, who, like other Western leaders, used wartime sacrifices to inspire hope in the fight against the coronavirus now. Weaving the themes of wartime endurance and success, she said Britain was still a country that those who fought in WWII would “recognize and admire.”

And she added: “Never give up, never despair.”

In Washington, war veterans joined U.S. President Donald Trump in laying a wreath at the World War II Memorial. “These heroes are living testaments to the American spirit of perseverance and victory, especially in the midst of dark days,” White House spokesman Judd Deere said, cutting through the clamor of historical debate.
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: Who won WWII - How nations view who ultimately won it

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Russia certainly won the European theatre.
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I can't see half of your graphs because of the awesome advertisements on the right hand side of the screen blocking its view.
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Re: Who won WWII - How nations view who ultimately won it

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Surely New Zealand?



Has anyone done any per capita models?
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Re: Who won WWII - How nations view who ultimately won it

Post by kiap »

Somewhat depends on how you define it.

The up front destruction laying waste to life and land at the spear tip ...

or ultimately dependent on industrial war machine production.
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Re: Who won WWII - How nations view who ultimately won it

Post by Yourmother »

Gavin Henson is the UK option?

Plus, where is the Irish option?
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Post by kiwinoz »

US manufacturing and Russian bodies
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Post by HighKingLeinster »

kiwinoz wrote:US manufacturing and Russian bodies
And some sterling upper lip stiffening from the brits
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Re: Who won WWII - How nations view who ultimately won it

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The Brits do the best line in self delusion on the planet.
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Yourmother wrote:Gavin Henson is the UK option?

Plus, where is the Irish option?
It's the second world war.

Not your wife on plenty of fish.
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Re: Who won WWII - How nations view who ultimately won it

Post by lemonhead »

kiwinoz wrote:US manufacturing and Russian bodies
Be interested how many French and German opinions were formed on who came out of it in the best shape. Only one real winner.
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Re: Who won WWII - How nations view who ultimately won it

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We're bossing the graph for famines won.
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Re: Who won WWII - How nations view who ultimately won it

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Clogs wrote:Surely New Zealand?



Has anyone done any per capita models?
My Form 7 Bursary History (internal assessment). 85% from memory.
1991

Edit - dissertation was ‘who gave the most for the least reason) - all allied countries assessed.
WW1 - think it was AUS
WW2 - think it was NZ

Was assessment of military deaths, injuries, civilian deaths, expenditure, if attacked/impact of act, nature of inclusion into the war etc.

Given that I was 17 I assume it was fairly crude evaluation and weighting.
Last edited by kiwigreg369 on Sun May 10, 2020 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DragsterDriver wrote:We're bossing the graph for famines won.
Amd Covid deaths.

Top work
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Re: Who won WWII - How nations view who ultimately won it

Post by Jim Lahey »

Its a bit of a charged question.

The Brits had to deal with Dunkirk, the Blitz, 5 years of rationing, took part in D-Day, fought in Africa etc., and were there at the business end of the war. I don’t see why your common British Joe Public wouldn’t feel that they won in the end.

The French got f**ked early on and seeing the influx of Yanks on Dday associate them with their liberation which is fair enough.

The Germans are probably influenced by who rebuilt their country after the war.

A better question would have been which country was the most influential in winning the war, in which case it definitely would be the SU. Britain would be at the bottom of that league table.
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Couldn't have been won without the yanks. However their refusal to get involved until they were dragged into it for me means I don't rate their contribution as high as some others. I think the nations that were not threatened with attack but stood up and fought the good fight are all deserving of more praise than the yanks.
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Post by Tehui »

Jim Lahey wrote: A better question would have been which country was the most influential in winning the war, in which case it definitely would be the SU. Britain would be at the bottom of that league table.
Sudan's contribution to the WW2 effort was definitely immense.

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Japan attacked the USA. USA entered the war and it was over relatively quickly after that. Game over.
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vh5150 wrote:Japan attacked the USA. USA entered the war and it was over relatively quickly after that. Game over.
Dude, Where's My Car?
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Anonymous. wrote:
vh5150 wrote:Japan attacked the USA. USA entered the war and it was over relatively quickly after that. Game over.
Dude, Where's My Car?

NO MORE AND THEN
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vh5150 wrote:Japan attacked the USA. USA entered the war and it was over relatively quickly after that. Game over.
There was 3.5 years between Pearl Harbour and VE day, not exactly a game over moment.
Hitler’s big mistake was declaring war on the US. An arrogant move with little to be gained from a German POV given that they already had Western Europe in lockdown and were focused on fighting the Soviets in the East. The US hadn’t much stomach to get involved in Europe. He should have left them and the Japanese to go at it by themseves.
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Post by DragsterDriver »

The serious answer of course is Germany, started all the shit and ended up with a nicely rebuilt country, plenty of industry, improved gene pool, and still took over Europe in the longer game.
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Post by Jeff the Bear »

Here's a question for the rank and file Military buff know-it-alls of the bored...had the UK succumb to the Nazi's early on, would Ze Germans have gone on to win the eastern front, or were they always doomed to lose to the Ruskies, and ultimately the war?
Last edited by Jeff the Bear on Sun May 10, 2020 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jim Lahey wrote:Its a bit of a charged question.

The Brits had to deal with Dunkirk, the Blitz, 5 years of rationing, took part in D-Day, fought in Africa etc., and were there at the business end of the war. I don’t see why your common British Joe Public wouldn’t feel that they won in the end.

The French got f**ked early on and seeing the influx of Yanks on Dday associate them with their liberation which is fair enough.


The Germans are probably influenced by who rebuilt their country after the war.

A better question would have been which country was the most influential in winning the war, in which case it definitely would be the SU. Britain would be at the bottom of that league table.
It's not just that. For the average French citizen, British soldiers were badly beaten on European soil, until they escape on their island, they resist there and Hitler went mad in attacking Russia. Then at the end big brother USA came and crush the Nazi in western Europe, whereas Russia crush them on the east front. We also think we were crap in this war, and Italy was even worse than us. :lol:
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Jim Lahey wrote:
vh5150 wrote:Japan attacked the USA. USA entered the war and it was over relatively quickly after that. Game over.
There was 3.5 years between Pearl Harbour and VE day, not exactly a game over moment.
Hitler’s big mistake was declaring war on the US. An arrogant move with little to be gained from a German POV given that they already had Western Europe in lockdown and were focused on fighting the Soviets in the East. The US hadn’t much stomach to get involved in Europe. He should have left them and the Japanese to go at it by themseves.
Hitler's big mistake was invading Russia.

The US was worried about Soviet hegemony, although the increasing influence of Japan in the Pacific was also a concern. They didn't really give two shits about western Europe.
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inactionman wrote:
Jim Lahey wrote:
vh5150 wrote:Japan attacked the USA. USA entered the war and it was over relatively quickly after that. Game over.
There was 3.5 years between Pearl Harbour and VE day, not exactly a game over moment.
Hitler’s big mistake was declaring war on the US. An arrogant move with little to be gained from a German POV given that they already had Western Europe in lockdown and were focused on fighting the Soviets in the East. The US hadn’t much stomach to get involved in Europe. He should have left them and the Japanese to go at it by themseves.
Hitler's big mistake was invading Russia.

The US was worried about Soviet hegemony, although the increasing influence of Japan in the Pacific was also a concern. They didn't really give two shits about western Europe.
Invading Russia was a mistake but always on the cards given Mein Kampf and all his other anti-Slav literature and the need for lebensraum etc.

Potentially if he didnt start a scrap with the US, DDay might have been postponed/avoided altogether meaning that the Nazis could’ve fought on one front rather than two. Still probably would have lost mind given the Soviets had 8 million men and Uncle Joe wasn’t afraid to throw bodies in front of machine guns.
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jos wrote:
Jim Lahey wrote:Its a bit of a charged question.

The Brits had to deal with Dunkirk, the Blitz, 5 years of rationing, took part in D-Day, fought in Africa etc., and were there at the business end of the war. I don’t see why your common British Joe Public wouldn’t feel that they won in the end.

The French got f**ked early on and seeing the influx of Yanks on Dday associate them with their liberation which is fair enough.


The Germans are probably influenced by who rebuilt their country after the war.

A better question would have been which country was the most influential in winning the war, in which case it definitely would be the SU. Britain would be at the bottom of that league table.
It's not just that. For the average French citizen, British soldiers were badly beaten on European soil, until they escape on their island, they resist there and Hitler went mad in attacking Russia. Then at the end big brother USA came and crush the Nazi in western Europe, whereas Russia crush them on the east front. We also think we were crap in this war, and Italy was even worse than us. :lol:
Don't forget it was an away fixture for Britain. The French were at home and they got their arses handed to them. Still all credit o them for declaring war on Germany with Britain. Remember that Britain was the only country to go the whole season undefeated
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inactionman wrote:
Jim Lahey wrote:
vh5150 wrote:Japan attacked the USA. USA entered the war and it was over relatively quickly after that. Game over.
There was 3.5 years between Pearl Harbour and VE day, not exactly a game over moment.
Hitler’s big mistake was declaring war on the US. An arrogant move with little to be gained from a German POV given that they already had Western Europe in lockdown and were focused on fighting the Soviets in the East. The US hadn’t much stomach to get involved in Europe. He should have left them and the Japanese to go at it by themseves.
Hitler's big mistake was invading Russia.

The US was worried about Soviet hegemony, although the increasing influence of Japan in the Pacific was also a concern. They didn't really give two shits about western Europe.
Yep ... USA simply didn’t see it as “their war”. Weren’t they building military equip for Germany before Japan got cocky?
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US came on as the finishers after the Brits, SU, and ANZACS etc had weathered the storm and knackered out the Oppo.
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vh5150 wrote:
inactionman wrote:
Jim Lahey wrote:
vh5150 wrote:Japan attacked the USA. USA entered the war and it was over relatively quickly after that. Game over.
There was 3.5 years between Pearl Harbour and VE day, not exactly a game over moment.
Hitler’s big mistake was declaring war on the US. An arrogant move with little to be gained from a German POV given that they already had Western Europe in lockdown and were focused on fighting the Soviets in the East. The US hadn’t much stomach to get involved in Europe. He should have left them and the Japanese to go at it by themseves.
Hitler's big mistake was invading Russia.

The US was worried about Soviet hegemony, although the increasing influence of Japan in the Pacific was also a concern. They didn't really give two shits about western Europe.
Yep ... USA simply didn’t see it as “their war”. Weren’t they building military equip for Germany before Japan got cocky?
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Post by jos »

Jim Lahey wrote:
inactionman wrote:
Jim Lahey wrote:
vh5150 wrote:Japan attacked the USA. USA entered the war and it was over relatively quickly after that. Game over.
There was 3.5 years between Pearl Harbour and VE day, not exactly a game over moment.
Hitler’s big mistake was declaring war on the US. An arrogant move with little to be gained from a German POV given that they already had Western Europe in lockdown and were focused on fighting the Soviets in the East. The US hadn’t much stomach to get involved in Europe. He should have left them and the Japanese to go at it by themseves.
Hitler's big mistake was invading Russia.

The US was worried about Soviet hegemony, although the increasing influence of Japan in the Pacific was also a concern. They didn't really give two shits about western Europe.
Invading Russia was a mistake but always on the cards given Mein Kampf and all his other anti-Slav literature and the need for lebensraum etc.

Potentially if he didnt start a scrap with the US, DDay might have been postponed/avoided altogether meaning that the Nazis could’ve fought on one front rather than two. Still probably would have lost mind given the Soviets had 8 million men and Uncle Joe wasn’t afraid to throw bodies in front of machine guns.
I don't think as the Japanese attacked them in Pearl Harbor, and as they were German's allies, the USA will not have stop just after defeating them. Add to that they wouldn't let the whole Europe to Russian communists.
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vh5150 wrote:
inactionman wrote:
Jim Lahey wrote:
vh5150 wrote:Japan attacked the USA. USA entered the war and it was over relatively quickly after that. Game over.
There was 3.5 years between Pearl Harbour and VE day, not exactly a game over moment.
Hitler’s big mistake was declaring war on the US. An arrogant move with little to be gained from a German POV given that they already had Western Europe in lockdown and were focused on fighting the Soviets in the East. The US hadn’t much stomach to get involved in Europe. He should have left them and the Japanese to go at it by themseves.
Hitler's big mistake was invading Russia.

The US was worried about Soviet hegemony, although the increasing influence of Japan in the Pacific was also a concern. They didn't really give two shits about western Europe.
Yep ... USA simply didn’t see it as “their war”. Weren’t they building military equip for Germany before Japan got cocky?
Mr Burns certainly did.
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Post by vh5150 »

NZ should be eternally grateful to the Yanks. They built the AucKland Harbour Bridge. The Japs made it bigger years later. The States assisted with a lot of the roads and infrastructure and stopped us speaking Japanese for at least 40 years. And then we turn around and don’t let them bring their nuclear warships to our shores.
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Jim Lahey wrote:Its a bit of a charged question.

The Brits had to deal with Dunkirk, the Blitz, 5 years of rationing, took part in D-Day, fought in Africa etc., and were there at the business end of the war. I don’t see why your common British Joe Public wouldn’t feel that they won in the end.

The French got f**ked early on and seeing the influx of Yanks on Dday associate them with their liberation which is fair enough.

The Germans are probably influenced by who rebuilt their country after the war.

A better question would have been which country was the most influential in winning the war, in which case it definitely would be the SU. Britain would be at the bottom of that league table.
While most Brits will say we won the war,I don't think any Brits think we did it on our own. They would all claim as part of a major player involve din the European and Pacific campaigns from start to finish.

Though in all cases the Soviet Unions role was underplayed. Not helped by the SU isolating behind the Iron wall for decades and Hollywoods need for simple narratives. There are many great war films, but there hasn't been many about exactly how the war ended. There are some excellent books on the SUs entry, but it doesn't help when some of the bets of them seem more impressed with the German's than the Russian stubborn resistance that f#cked them when they invaded.
Last edited by eldanielfire on Sun May 10, 2020 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Jim Lahey »

jos wrote:
Jim Lahey wrote:
inactionman wrote:
Jim Lahey wrote:
vh5150 wrote:Japan attacked the USA. USA entered the war and it was over relatively quickly after that. Game over.
There was 3.5 years between Pearl Harbour and VE day, not exactly a game over moment.
Hitler’s big mistake was declaring war on the US. An arrogant move with little to be gained from a German POV given that they already had Western Europe in lockdown and were focused on fighting the Soviets in the East. The US hadn’t much stomach to get involved in Europe. He should have left them and the Japanese to go at it by themseves.
Hitler's big mistake was invading Russia.

The US was worried about Soviet hegemony, although the increasing influence of Japan in the Pacific was also a concern. They didn't really give two shits about western Europe.
Invading Russia was a mistake but always on the cards given Mein Kampf and all his other anti-Slav literature and the need for lebensraum etc.

Potentially if he didnt start a scrap with the US, DDay might have been postponed/avoided altogether meaning that the Nazis could’ve fought on one front rather than two. Still probably would have lost mind given the Soviets had 8 million men and Uncle Joe wasn’t afraid to throw bodies in front of machine guns.
I don't think as the Japanese attacked them in Pearl Harbor, and as they were German's allies, the USA will not have stop just after defeating them. Add to that they wouldn't let the whole Europe to Russian communists.
Yeah but it took until August 1945 for the US to defeat Japan. In your case Hitler would have had almost 4 years to fight the Russians on the Eastern front with Western front lockdown. All counter factual but one of my favourite aspects of history.
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Re: Who won WWII - How nations view who ultimately won it

Post by eldanielfire »

inactionman wrote:
Jim Lahey wrote:
vh5150 wrote:Japan attacked the USA. USA entered the war and it was over relatively quickly after that. Game over.
There was 3.5 years between Pearl Harbour and VE day, not exactly a game over moment.
Hitler’s big mistake was declaring war on the US. An arrogant move with little to be gained from a German POV given that they already had Western Europe in lockdown and were focused on fighting the Soviets in the East. The US hadn’t much stomach to get involved in Europe. He should have left them and the Japanese to go at it by themseves.
Hitler's big mistake was invading Russia.

The US was worried about Soviet hegemony, although the increasing influence of Japan in the Pacific was also a concern. They didn't really give two shits about western Europe.

Mistake or not, Stalin was certainly going to go at Germany and Hitler knew it. Basically the war was always unwinnable for Germany, there was always going to be a point where they had to take on and invade Russia earlier when they were less developed or later when Russia's production was greater and it was more dangerous.
Gwenno
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Re: Who won WWII - How nations view who ultimately won it

Post by Gwenno »

VE Day was Brexit Day 2
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Zico
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Re: Who won WWII - How nations view who ultimately won it

Post by Zico »

I think VE day is akin to GWB on that aircraft carrier with the Mission Accomplished banner.

The casus belli for WW2 was the liberation of Poland and that didn't happen until the Poles liberated themselves from the Soviet Union, so in a way Poland won WW2. The chain reaction liberated for more people than the narrow and convenient interpretation of the 1945 carving up of the continent.
C69
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Re: Who won WWII - How nations view who ultimately won it

Post by C69 »

eldanielfire wrote:
inactionman wrote:
Jim Lahey wrote:
vh5150 wrote:Japan attacked the USA. USA entered the war and it was over relatively quickly after that. Game over.
There was 3.5 years between Pearl Harbour and VE day, not exactly a game over moment.
Hitler’s big mistake was declaring war on the US. An arrogant move with little to be gained from a German POV given that they already had Western Europe in lockdown and were focused on fighting the Soviets in the East. The US hadn’t much stomach to get involved in Europe. He should have left them and the Japanese to go at it by themseves.
Hitler's big mistake was invading Russia.

The US was worried about Soviet hegemony, although the increasing influence of Japan in the Pacific was also a concern. They didn't really give two shits about western Europe.

Mistake or not, Stalin was certainly going to go at Germany and Hitler knew it. Basically the war was always unwinnable for Germany, there was always going to be a point where they had to take on and invade Russia earlier when they were less developed or later when Russia's production was greater and it was more dangerous.
If only Germany had decent meteorologists.
backrow
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Re: Who won WWII - How nations view who ultimately won it

Post by backrow »

I have a mid way point between the normal jingoistic Britain won the war, and the anti Brit version where it was the US or Russia that won it.
Britain’s contribution shouldn’t really be disparaged:
First to defend successfully against Germany
Had it’s colonies
Had it’s navy
Possibly most of all, it had tech developments with which it could help Russia and USA get a jump start - aerodynamics , glue, engines, materials, jets, reliable guns, artillery to name but few.

So I genuinely think UK was the first to give Germany a bloody nose, yes. But was in no place to ultimately defeat Germany I think, not even close - had USA stayed out of it for good, and had not Barbarossa occurred when it did, then I think peace would eventually have occurred and uk left alone in the short term.

Russian bodies did drain Germany and cause their defeat, as did US material and production methods. US can also claim to have won the war against japan almost on its own. To diminish any countries contribution to defeating Germany is a bit sad really, let’s just be glad the greater reich never happened.
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