30 for 30

sewa · Post by **sewa** » Fri May 15, 2020 12:04 pm

The only thing Lance is on is his bike, busting his ass 6 hours a day

Anyway the big doping documentary is coming up, should be good watching for those of us who don't wear lycra and maybe even for some who do

Nieghorn · Post by **Nieghorn** » Fri May 15, 2020 12:09 pm

I liked the one about Greg LeMond.

Short Man Syndrome · Post by **Short Man Syndrome** » Fri May 15, 2020 12:55 pm

So much awesomeness in one sports doc series.

“Once brothers” is amazing, as are most of them.

Akkerman · Post by **Akkerman** » Fri May 15, 2020 1:15 pm

is this a new one coming up ? i don't remember anything about lance in the old series

LE: yep, a new one, just saw the trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUsakV8RzZo

something to look forward to, after the jordan one finishes next week

sewa · Post by **sewa** » Fri May 15, 2020 1:22 pm

Yeah, its the next one coming up

Tehui · Post by **Tehui** » Fri May 15, 2020 2:35 pm

I can't stand Lance Armstrong. Think I'll give it a miss. It'll just put me in a bad mood.

Nieghorn · Post by **Nieghorn** » Fri May 15, 2020 2:44 pm

I'm cheesed off that they don't seem to be releasing them on DVD any more. I own the first two seasons and like having the boxed set to go through (especially as I have dodgy rural internet).

Sandstorm · Post by **Sandstorm** » Fri May 15, 2020 2:45 pm

Tehui wrote:I can't stand Lance Armstrong. Think I'll give it a miss. It'll just put me in a bad mood.

+1

Mr Mike · Post by **Mr Mike** » Fri May 15, 2020 2:47 pm

“Broke” was an eye opener.

OttawaKat · Post by **OttawaKat** » Fri May 15, 2020 2:51 pm

Tehui wrote:I can't stand Lance Armstrong. Think I'll give it a miss. It'll just put me in a bad mood.

I had to go through about 4 years of my father in law chastising me for having no soul because I dared to suggest Lance was juiced. "If you read his books you would understand". Of course, because who is a more objective source than Lance himself.

When the shit hit the fan and he was revealed to not only be a fraud but a bad human being, I got "they all cheat and Lance is still the best so I support him. I'm glad I'm not a cynic like you."

I'd already done the same dance with Sosa/McGwire.

jdogscoop · Post by **jdogscoop** » Fri May 15, 2020 2:56 pm

OttawaKat wrote:
Tehui wrote:I can't stand Lance Armstrong. Think I'll give it a miss. It'll just put me in a bad mood.
I had to go through about 4 years of my father in law chastising me for having no soul because I dared to suggest Lance was juiced. "If you read his books you would understand". Of course, because who is a more objective source than Lance himself.

When the shit hit the fan and he was revealed to not only be a fraud but a bad human being, I got "they all cheat and Lance is still the best so I support him. I'm glad I'm not a cynic like you."

I'd already done the same dance with Sosa/McGwire.

No offence to you mr / mrs, but your FIL is an absolute bell.

OttawaKat · Post by **OttawaKat** » Fri May 15, 2020 2:58 pm

jdogscoop wrote:
OttawaKat wrote:
Tehui wrote:I can't stand Lance Armstrong. Think I'll give it a miss. It'll just put me in a bad mood.
I had to go through about 4 years of my father in law chastising me for having no soul because I dared to suggest Lance was juiced. "If you read his books you would understand". Of course, because who is a more objective source than Lance himself.

When the shit hit the fan and he was revealed to not only be a fraud but a bad human being, I got "they all cheat and Lance is still the best so I support him. I'm glad I'm not a cynic like you."

I'd already done the same dance with Sosa/McGwire.
No offence to you mr / mrs, but your FIL is an absolute bell.

Don't get me started...

dinsdale · Post by **dinsdale** » Fri May 15, 2020 3:28 pm

OttawaKat wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
OttawaKat wrote:
Tehui wrote:I can't stand Lance Armstrong. Think I'll give it a miss. It'll just put me in a bad mood.
I had to go through about 4 years of my father in law chastising me for having no soul because I dared to suggest Lance was juiced. "If you read his books you would understand". Of course, because who is a more objective source than Lance himself.

When the shit hit the fan and he was revealed to not only be a fraud but a bad human being, I got "they all cheat and Lance is still the best so I support him. I'm glad I'm not a cynic like you."

I'd already done the same dance with Sosa/McGwire.
No offence to you mr / mrs, but your FIL is an absolute bell.
Don't get me started...

"Perceptive insight is often mistaken for cynicism by those who do not possess it"

[edit]
Something else I find particularly depressing is that I know a number of people who took up cycling because of Lance Armstrong and at least one of them took it really badly when he was found out.

fishfoodie · Post by **fishfoodie** » Fri May 15, 2020 3:39 pm

dinsdale wrote:
OttawaKat wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
OttawaKat wrote:
Tehui wrote:I can't stand Lance Armstrong. Think I'll give it a miss. It'll just put me in a bad mood.
I had to go through about 4 years of my father in law chastising me for having no soul because I dared to suggest Lance was juiced. "If you read his books you would understand". Of course, because who is a more objective source than Lance himself.

When the shit hit the fan and he was revealed to not only be a fraud but a bad human being, I got "they all cheat and Lance is still the best so I support him. I'm glad I'm not a cynic like you."

I'd already done the same dance with Sosa/McGwire.
No offence to you mr / mrs, but your FIL is an absolute bell.
Don't get me started...
"Perceptive insight is often mistaken for cynicism by those who do not possess it"

[edit]
Something else I find particularly depressing is that I know a number of people who took up cycling because of Lance Armstrong and at least one of them took it really badly when he was found out.

Funnily enough; I was in the Nike Employees store in Oregon a couple of weeks after he did his 'interview', on Oprah. The amount of live strong tat they still had, allbeit, in the discount bin, was amazing.

Nike really is a nexus of evil in Sports, & a completely amoral company, even by multinational company standard.

CrazyIslander · Post by **CrazyIslander** » Fri May 15, 2020 5:03 pm

I'm not totally against Lance. They all did drugs and IMO many more past champions did it and got away from it.

JM2K6 · Post by **JM2K6** » Fri May 15, 2020 6:05 pm

I really enjoyed The Best There Never Was http://www.espn.com/30for30/film/_/page ... -never-was

mr bungle · Post by **mr bungle** » Fri May 15, 2020 10:11 pm

So many good ones. Great series.

Particularly enjoyed;

The Two Escobars http://www.espn.com/30for30/film/_/page ... o-escobars

https://youtu.be/PHzixowbbYU

Basketball Coach Jim Valvano http://www.espn.com/30for30/film?page=s ... %20advance

https://youtu.be/WxN9_SZhHns

Boxer Tommy Morrison http://www.espn.com/30for30/film/_/page/tommy

https://youtu.be/lio2qeoebTI

Bowens · Post by **Bowens** » Fri May 15, 2020 10:23 pm

Watched 42 to 1 the other night. Buster Douglas is such a humble dude. Now gives free boxing lessons for kids at rec centers in Columbus.

Enzedder · Post by **Enzedder** » Fri May 15, 2020 11:44 pm

Tehui wrote:I can't stand Lance Armstrong. Think I'll give it a miss. It'll just put me in a bad mood.

Was he the one that got caught?

Biffer29 · Post by **Biffer29** » Fri May 15, 2020 11:51 pm

You Don’t know Bo

UncleFB · Post by **UncleFB** » Sat May 16, 2020 12:20 am

Enzedder wrote:
Tehui wrote:I can't stand Lance Armstrong. Think I'll give it a miss. It'll just put me in a bad mood.
Was he the one that got caught?

Wasn't he one of the many who got caught but we have to pretend differently so we can focus all our indignation on him?

Red Revolution · Post by **Red Revolution** » Sat May 16, 2020 12:34 am

CrazyIslander wrote:I'm not totally against Lance. They all did drugs and IMO many more past champions did it and got away from it.

I think the difference with Lance is that he'd hound people through the courts and elsewhere when they made accusations, ruining a few livelihoods and possibly some lifes.

Also he made Dodgeball odd when his scene pops up and he gives his peptalk.

Tehui · Post by **Tehui** » Sat May 16, 2020 2:00 am

I'm not exactly sure what points some people on this thread are trying to make, but my take on it is this:

- Armstrong is a drug cheat
- Armstrong is also a bully and a cunt
- Many other cyclists were also drug cheats
- An athlete is innocent until proven to have used illicit drugs (if somebody wants to assert that they all cheated, please put up the proof)
- I don't care if the athlete was Muhammad Ali, Michael Jordan, Usain Bolt, Richie McCaw or Donald Bradman, if they used illegal drugs to enhance performance, they are dead to me, their sporting achievements now mean nothing, and I don't want to hear any excuses from / for them.

CrazyIslander · Post by **CrazyIslander** » Sat May 16, 2020 2:36 am

Red Revolution wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:I'm not totally against Lance. They all did drugs and IMO many more past champions did it and got away from it.
I think the difference with Lance is that he'd hound people through the courts and elsewhere when they made accusations, ruining a few livelihoods and possibly some lifes.

Also he made Dodgeball odd when his scene pops up and he gives his peptalk.

Fair enough and I don't think he's a good guy. But a cyclist in those days would be using drugs from junior level just to get up to being a professional. So, it was a well shared secret amongst all competitors. So for other cyclists to come out and single out Armstrong is a bit much.

It's all well and good for the public to prefer their cyclists clean. A cyclist was only doing what everyone else was doing.

UncleFB · Post by **UncleFB** » Sat May 16, 2020 2:47 am

Tehui wrote:I'm not exactly sure what points some people on this thread are trying to make, but my take on it is this:

- Armstrong is a drug cheat
- Armstrong is also a bully and a cunt
- Many other cyclists were also drug cheats
- An athlete is innocent until proven to have used illicit drugs (if somebody wants to assert that they all cheated, please put up the proof)
- I don't care if the athlete was Muhammad Ali, Michael Jordan, Usain Bolt, Richie McCaw or Donald Bradman, if they used illegal drugs to enhance performance, they are dead to me, their sporting achievements now mean nothing, and I don't want to hear any excuses from / for them.

I think the point is, most TDF riders in his era were drug cheats, and most of them got caught, but Armstrong is still the big bad of cycling. It's not saying 'he's' any less of a drug cheat, but he's one of many and that often gets overlooked.

It's not defending Armstrong.

Tehui · Post by **Tehui** » Sat May 16, 2020 2:53 am

UncleFB wrote:
Tehui wrote:I'm not exactly sure what points some people on this thread are trying to make, but my take on it is this:

- Armstrong is a drug cheat
- Armstrong is also a bully and a cunt
- Many other cyclists were also drug cheats
- An athlete is innocent until proven to have used illicit drugs (if somebody wants to assert that they all cheated, please put up the proof)
- I don't care if the athlete was Muhammad Ali, Michael Jordan, Usain Bolt, Richie McCaw or Donald Bradman, if they used illegal drugs to enhance performance, they are dead to me, their sporting achievements now mean nothing, and I don't want to hear any excuses from / for them.
I think the point is, most TDF riders in his era were drug cheats, and most of them got caught, but Armstrong is still the big bad of cycling. It's not saying 'he's' any less of a drug cheat, but he's one of many and that often gets overlooked.

It's not defending Armstrong.

The way I see it, it's a reflection of the hero / zero dichotomy. The athlete who receives the most attention during success, usually receives the most attention during failure. It is what it is.

CrazyIslander · Post by **CrazyIslander** » Sat May 16, 2020 3:04 am

I enjoyed the "Bad boys" Pistons 30/30.

There was also one about another basketball comp rivaling the NBA. The NBA offered four clubs including the Pacers to join them. Those clubs had to pay of St Louis iirc owners to leave that comp. The pay off was 17% of TV revenue for those 4 clubs forever.

Tehui · Post by **Tehui** » Sat May 16, 2020 3:14 am

CrazyIslander wrote:I enjoyed the "Bad boys" Pistons 30/30.

There was also one about another basketball comp rivaling the NBA. The NBA offered four clubs including the Pacers to join them. Those clubs had to pay of St Louis iirc owners to leave that comp. The pay off was 17% of TV revenue for those 4 clubs forever.

Was that about the ABA comp of the 70s, or something else?

CrazyIslander · Post by **CrazyIslander** » Sat May 16, 2020 3:30 am

Tehui wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:I enjoyed the "Bad boys" Pistons 30/30.

There was also one about another basketball comp rivaling the NBA. The NBA offered four clubs including the Pacers to join them. Those clubs had to pay of St Louis iirc owners to leave that comp. The pay off was 17% of TV revenue for those 4 clubs forever.
Was that about the ABA comp of the 70s, or something else?

Yeah that one iirc

Tehui · Post by **Tehui** » Sat May 16, 2020 3:41 am

CrazyIslander wrote:
Tehui wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:I enjoyed the "Bad boys" Pistons 30/30.

There was also one about another basketball comp rivaling the NBA. The NBA offered four clubs including the Pacers to join them. Those clubs had to pay of St Louis iirc owners to leave that comp. The pay off was 17% of TV revenue for those 4 clubs forever.
Was that about the ABA comp of the 70s, or something else?
Yeah that one iirc

I'll have to check it out. I wouldn't mind hearing about Dr J in his prime.

Short Man Syndrome · Post by **Short Man Syndrome** » Sat May 16, 2020 3:41 am

I almost don't care if he cheated, it's still an amazing physical achievement to a) complete the Tour b) win the Tour c) win it 6 times.

He still had to physically climb into the saddle and get the job done, juiced or no. But yeah, it's not great that he lied through his teeth and cheated like fudge.

I'm trying to think of any 30 for 30s that I didn't enjoy... they are all really well done, I think. There's a few I haven't seen but so far I've enjoyed them all. Run Ricky Run is awesome... all of the college basketball ones are great...

Anonymous 1 · Post by **Anonymous 1** » Sat May 16, 2020 4:14 am

Lance Armstrong cycling god

Botha Boy · Post by **Botha Boy** » Sat May 16, 2020 8:54 am

But cunt of a person ...

Insane_Homer · Post by **Insane_Homer** » Sat May 16, 2020 9:01 am

Tehui wrote:I can't stand Lance Armstrong. Think I'll give it a miss. It'll just put me in a bad mood.

that reminds me, I have a couple of books to burn

JM2K6 · Post by **JM2K6** » Sat May 16, 2020 4:29 pm

UncleFB wrote:
Tehui wrote:I'm not exactly sure what points some people on this thread are trying to make, but my take on it is this:

- Armstrong is a drug cheat
- Armstrong is also a bully and a cunt
- Many other cyclists were also drug cheats
- An athlete is innocent until proven to have used illicit drugs (if somebody wants to assert that they all cheated, please put up the proof)
- I don't care if the athlete was Muhammad Ali, Michael Jordan, Usain Bolt, Richie McCaw or Donald Bradman, if they used illegal drugs to enhance performance, they are dead to me, their sporting achievements now mean nothing, and I don't want to hear any excuses from / for them.
I think the point is, most TDF riders in his era were drug cheats, and most of them got caught, but Armstrong is still the big bad of cycling. It's not saying 'he's' any less of a drug cheat, but he's one of many and that often gets overlooked.

It's not defending Armstrong.

It's what he did to other people that elevates him.

de_Selby · Post by **de_Selby** » Sat May 16, 2020 6:38 pm

Against the wind is another great one, the story of Terry Fox

dinsdale · Post by **dinsdale** » Sat May 16, 2020 7:57 pm

Short Man Syndrome wrote:I almost don't care if he cheated, it's still an amazing physical achievement to a) complete the Tour b) win the Tour c) win it 6 times.

He still had to physically climb into the saddle and get the job done, juiced or no. But yeah, it's not great that he lied through his teeth and cheated like fudge.

I'm trying to think of any 30 for 30s that I didn't enjoy... they are all really well done, I think. There's a few I haven't seen but so far I've enjoyed them all. Run Ricky Run is awesome... all of the college basketball ones are great...

There are clean cyclists more talented than Lance. They just didn't have a career because he and others cheated.

I'm with Nicole Cooke on this. If you cheated to win then you have stolen somebody else's livelihood. It's the same as theft and you should be prosecuted.

CrazyIslander · Post by **CrazyIslander** » Sat May 16, 2020 8:05 pm

dinsdale wrote:
Short Man Syndrome wrote:I almost don't care if he cheated, it's still an amazing physical achievement to a) complete the Tour b) win the Tour c) win it 6 times.

He still had to physically climb into the saddle and get the job done, juiced or no. But yeah, it's not great that he lied through his teeth and cheated like fudge.

I'm trying to think of any 30 for 30s that I didn't enjoy... they are all really well done, I think. There's a few I haven't seen but so far I've enjoyed them all. Run Ricky Run is awesome... all of the college basketball ones are great...
There are clean cyclists more talented than Lance. They just didn't have a career because he and others cheated.

I'm with Nicole Cooke on this. If you cheated to win then you have stolen somebody else's livelihood. It's the same as theft and you should be prosecuted.

They all cheated mate. You wouldn't even make pro cycling if you didn't cheat.

dinsdale · Post by **dinsdale** » Sat May 16, 2020 8:55 pm

CrazyIslander wrote:
dinsdale wrote:
Short Man Syndrome wrote:I almost don't care if he cheated, it's still an amazing physical achievement to a) complete the Tour b) win the Tour c) win it 6 times.

He still had to physically climb into the saddle and get the job done, juiced or no. But yeah, it's not great that he lied through his teeth and cheated like fudge.

I'm trying to think of any 30 for 30s that I didn't enjoy... they are all really well done, I think. There's a few I haven't seen but so far I've enjoyed them all. Run Ricky Run is awesome... all of the college basketball ones are great...
There are clean cyclists more talented than Lance. They just didn't have a career because he and others cheated.

I'm with Nicole Cooke on this. If you cheated to win then you have stolen somebody else's livelihood. It's the same as theft and you should be prosecuted.
They all cheated mate. You wouldn't even make pro cycling if you didn't cheat.

That's the whole fücking point which you have now missed - twice.

The non cheats had a career stolen from them by the cheats.

eldanielfire · Post by **eldanielfire** » Sat May 16, 2020 9:19 pm

9.79* is another great one.