Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

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Druid
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Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

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Virgin Atlantic bail out.

Sir Richard Branson has warned that airline Virgin Atlantic needs government support to survive. In response the Treasury have offered him back ‘every single penny that he has paid in UK tax for the past 14 years.’ Chancellor Rishi Sunak described it as an ‘unprecedented offer’ but said that he cannot extend it to others as ‘to do so would cost the government money they can ill afford’. Asked how much the offer to Branson would cost the UK taxpayer, Mr Sunak said he hasn’t yet calculated it exactly but believes it to be ‘in the region of fuck all.
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message #2527204
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

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Sir stelios got 600m for easy jet. Delta, that half owns VA has got billions from the US government. VA had its offices in the UK and pays taxes in the UK. It also has many UK employees, who also pay taxes, and runs airbuses with engines and wings made in the UK.
They're asking for a loan, not a gift.
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Openside
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

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message #2527204 wrote:Sir stelios got 600m for easy jet. Delta, that half owns VA has got billions from the US government. VA had its offices in the UK and pays taxes in the UK. It also has many UK employees, who also pay taxes, and runs airbuses with engines and wings made in the UK.
They're asking for a loan, not a gift.

As long as we take equity its fine!!
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by TB63 »

Branson is now a minor shareholder, Delta, 49%, Air France, 39 %, VA Holdings, 21%.
Branson is a shareholder in VA Holdings..
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Saint
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by Saint »

Virgin Atlantic has been loss making for a while as it is. Flybe performed a genuine public service and was allowed to die - it's hard to see a good reason for saving VA. It might be a "loan", but it's unlikely to ever be repaid, and ultimately it's probably better to conserve this cash for more deserving cases where we might actually get our money back
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message #2527204
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

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Openside wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:Sir stelios got 600m for easy jet. Delta, that half owns VA has got billions from the US government. VA had its offices in the UK and pays taxes in the UK. It also has many UK employees, who also pay taxes, and runs airbuses with engines and wings made in the UK.
They're asking for a loan, not a gift.

As long as we take equity its fine!!
The fact that they haven't been given a loan makes you wonder if anyone thinks they'll be able to pay it back.

Edit - should have also added the extortionate tax that is levied on every passenger as another source of income for the Exchequer.
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

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Branson has paid no U.K. income tax since moving to the tax-free British Virgin Islands 14 years ago.
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by ovalball »

TB63 wrote:Branson is now a minor shareholder, Delta, 49%, Air France, 39 %, VA Holdings, 21%.
Branson is a shareholder in VA Holdings..
Sounds like Pritti Patel carved that up.............
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by camroc1 »

IAG and Ryanair have already complained to Brussels over this, and German aid for Lufthansa, French aid for Air France, Dutch aid for KLM etc. etc.

This has a way to run yet.
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by Nolanator »

ovalball wrote:
TB63 wrote:Branson is now a minor shareholder, Delta, 49%, Air France, 39 %, VA Holdings, 21%.
Branson is a shareholder in VA Holdings..
Sounds like Pritti Patel carved that up.............
Abbott, surely?
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

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message #2527204 wrote:
Openside wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:Sir stelios got 600m for easy jet. Delta, that half owns VA has got billions from the US government. VA had its offices in the UK and pays taxes in the UK. It also has many UK employees, who also pay taxes, and runs airbuses with engines and wings made in the UK.
They're asking for a loan, not a gift.

As long as we take equity its fine!!
The fact that they haven't been given a loan makes you wonder if anyone thinks they'll be able to pay it back.

Edit - should have also added the extortionate tax that is levied on every passenger as another source of income for the Exchequer.
That tax will be paid regardless of which airline they choose to fly with. On the major routes it's not like there's a capacity shortage - on the holiday routes traffic will be down so much anyway that there's going to be an enormous excess. Seriously, VA don't really do much for the economy, and having gone into this as a basket case already aren't really sustainable
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by message #2527204 »

Druid wrote:Branson has paid no U.K. income tax since moving to the tax-free British Virgin Islands 14 years ago.
Probably because he lives on Necker and virgin holdings is HQd in the Virgin Islands?
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

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Saint wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
Openside wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:Sir stelios got 600m for easy jet. Delta, that half owns VA has got billions from the US government. VA had its offices in the UK and pays taxes in the UK. It also has many UK employees, who also pay taxes, and runs airbuses with engines and wings made in the UK.
They're asking for a loan, not a gift.

As long as we take equity its fine!!
The fact that they haven't been given a loan makes you wonder if anyone thinks they'll be able to pay it back.

Edit - should have also added the extortionate tax that is levied on every passenger as another source of income for the Exchequer.
That tax will be paid regardless of which airline they choose to fly with. On the major routes it's not like there's a capacity shortage - on the holiday routes traffic will be down so much anyway that there's going to be an enormous excess. Seriously, VA don't really do much for the economy, and having gone into this as a basket case already aren't really sustainable
No, I daresay your correct. A loan would just help to bail out a failing company.
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by Druid »

Sir stelios got 600m for easy jet. Delta, that half owns VA has got billions from the US government. VA had its offices in the UK and pays taxes in the UK. It also has many UK employees, who also pay taxes, and runs airbuses with engines and wings made in the UK.
They're asking for a loan, not a gift.
A viable business will get a loan from a bank.
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by backrow »

Jeez, governments are bailing out everyone it seems !
Surely if a firm that can’t run for a few months even if the govt pays for 80% of its staff salaries, just isn’t viable and should be allowed to die off?

Will holiday companies be getting this bailout too ? Luxury goods makers ?
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by Druid »

Branson himself is worth $5.2 billion.

He has retained a holding of 51% of Virgin Atlantic after changing his mind of selling one-third of the airline to Air France-KLM.
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by message #2527204 »

Druid wrote:Branson himself is worth $5.2 billion.

He has retained a holding of 51% of Virgin Atlantic after changing his mind of selling one-third of the airline to Air France-KLM.
So he'll be worth a lot less when it goes bust.
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by fishfoodie »

Isn't this the bloke who when asked; 'How do I become a mult-millionaire', answered; 'well first become a billionaire; & then buy an airline ......'

It's a vanity business; taxpayers should have no hand, act, or part in it.

If the Chancellor wants to splash the cash on transport; he would be better off doing so on buses, & rail transport !
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

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"At the height of the financial crisis in 2009, billionaire Richard Branson balked at the idea of government intervention to stop companies going bust, proclaiming that weak airlines should be allowed to go to the wall"
Guess what happened next, readers..
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

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VA should be saved, no matter what the cost to the taxpayer!

So that I can use all my air miles. :nod:
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by eldanielfire »

The Optimist wrote:
"At the height of the financial crisis in 2009, billionaire Richard Branson balked at the idea of government intervention to stop companies going bust, proclaiming that weak airlines should be allowed to go to the wall"
Guess what happened next, readers..
Funny how the ultra capitalist c#nts who thinks business is nothing more than survival of the fittest come begging for that sweet government bailout when they find out they aren't fit enough.

BTW, while the likes of Branson is a c#nt, I can understand why government bail out airlines. It's about having the infrastructure and connections for the economy to bounce back after this is over. Though the government should take over a percentage of the company in exchange for support.
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by Rugby2023 »

camroc1 wrote:IAG and Ryanair have already complained to Brussels over this, and German aid for Lufthansa, French aid for Air France, Dutch aid for KLM etc. etc.

This has a way to run yet.
Pre-emptive strike?
Last edited by Rugby2023 on Sun May 31, 2020 5:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by croyals »

Can't see any reason to save VA. They run largely long distance tourist routes, which will be buggered for years.

Also love IAG's chutzpah - calling for no bailouts as they have larger cash reserves and by the time they'll need a bailout us and the Spanish will have to do it as they're the last ones standing.
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by Druid »

Branscum will have his VG to fall back on.
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by bimboman »

camroc1 wrote:IAG and Ryanair have already complained to Brussels over this, and German aid for Lufthansa, French aid for Air France, Dutch aid for KLM etc. etc.

This has a way to run yet.

The companies will either be bankrupt or State owned by the time the EU manage anything.
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

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Druid wrote:
Sir stelios got 600m for easy jet. Delta, that half owns VA has got billions from the US government. VA had its offices in the UK and pays taxes in the UK. It also has many UK employees, who also pay taxes, and runs airbuses with engines and wings made in the UK.
They're asking for a loan, not a gift.
A viable business will get a loan from a bank.

No Bank would be allowed to lend to Airlines right now.
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by Uncle Fester »

eldanielfire wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
"At the height of the financial crisis in 2009, billionaire Richard Branson balked at the idea of government intervention to stop companies going bust, proclaiming that weak airlines should be allowed to go to the wall"
Guess what happened next, readers..
Funny how the ultra capitalist c#nts who thinks business is nothing more than survival of the fittest come begging for that sweet government bailout when they find out they aren't fit enough.

BTW, while the likes of Branson is a c#nt, I can understand why government bail out airlines. It's about having the infrastructure and connections for the economy to bounce back after this is over. Though the government should take over a percentage of the company in exchange for support.
Let the failed company go bust and a NewCo can rise from the ashes. That's how capitalism is supposed to work.
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by Saint »

IAG have arranged for a billion Euros in loans from the Spanish governement to fund Iberia and Vueling
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by Zakar »

Hahaha you're such little bitches.
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by Druid »

bimboman wrote:
Druid wrote:
Sir stelios got 600m for easy jet. Delta, that half owns VA has got billions from the US government. VA had its offices in the UK and pays taxes in the UK. It also has many UK employees, who also pay taxes, and runs airbuses with engines and wings made in the UK.
They're asking for a loan, not a gift.
A viable business will get a loan from a bank.

No Bank would be allowed to lend to Airlines right now.
So, not viable then.
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by Petej »

message #2527204 wrote:
Druid wrote:Branson has paid no U.K. income tax since moving to the tax-free British Virgin Islands 14 years ago.
Probably because he lives on Necker and virgin holdings is HQd in the Virgin Islands?
The virgin islands can bail him out then.
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

For those of you wishing to hate on Branson, consider this: his first cruise ship - The Scarlet Lady - was due to set sail on her first cruise in August. I know Alan, the captain: he's been posting amusing photos of him all on his todd onboard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet_Lady
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by bimboman »

Druid wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Druid wrote:
Sir stelios got 600m for easy jet. Delta, that half owns VA has got billions from the US government. VA had its offices in the UK and pays taxes in the UK. It also has many UK employees, who also pay taxes, and runs airbuses with engines and wings made in the UK.
They're asking for a loan, not a gift.
A viable business will get a loan from a bank.

No Bank would be allowed to lend to Airlines right now.
So, not viable then.

The internal capital allocation that they’d be regulated to make would suggest so.
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by Druid »

Short Man Syndrome wrote:For those of you wishing to hate on Branson, consider this: his first cruise ship - The Scarlet Lady - was due to set sail on her first cruise in August. I know Alan, the captain: he's been posting amusing photos of him all on his todd onboard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet_Lady
Alan Bengio? :shock:
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

Druid wrote:
Short Man Syndrome wrote:For those of you wishing to hate on Branson, consider this: his first cruise ship - The Scarlet Lady - was due to set sail on her first cruise in August. I know Alan, the captain: he's been posting amusing photos of him all on his todd onboard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet_Lady
Alan Bengio? :shock:
No, this one is from Devon (or Cornwall... Somerset, maybe?) not Italy!
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by Druid »

Short Man Syndrome wrote:
Druid wrote:
Short Man Syndrome wrote:For those of you wishing to hate on Branson, consider this: his first cruise ship - The Scarlet Lady - was due to set sail on her first cruise in August. I know Alan, the captain: he's been posting amusing photos of him all on his todd onboard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet_Lady
Alan Bengio? :shock:
No, this one is from Devon (or Cornwall... Somerset, maybe?) not Italy!
Just joking :smug:
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

Druid wrote:
Short Man Syndrome wrote:
Druid wrote:
Short Man Syndrome wrote:For those of you wishing to hate on Branson, consider this: his first cruise ship - The Scarlet Lady - was due to set sail on her first cruise in August. I know Alan, the captain: he's been posting amusing photos of him all on his todd onboard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet_Lady
Alan Bengio? :shock:
No, this one is from Devon (or Cornwall... Somerset, maybe?) not Italy!
Just joking :smug:
Yeah, I figured! I only expounded upon Alan because the last Italian skipper (he was a Commodore) I sailed under could barely speak English, it was excruciating listening to him address crowds of passengers... Alan is a) crazy young for a cruise ship captain b) a good dude.
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by Uncle Fester »

Short Man Syndrome wrote:For those of you wishing to hate on Branson, consider this: his first cruise ship - The Scarlet Lady - was due to set sail on her first cruise in August. I know Alan, the captain: he's been posting amusing photos of him all on his todd onboard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet_Lady
"Adults only" hmmm?
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by Saint »

A somewhat novel bailout for Norwegian will see their creditors - primarily their airframe lessors - convert debt to equity and become 55% shareholders in the company. Existing equity will be diluted to just 5%.

Strange situation - going from owning an airplane, to an airline, in one day
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Re: Virgin Atlantic bailed out by UK.

Post by Saint »

Virgin Atlantic to cut 3,000 jobs leave Gatwick. Supposedly it intends to keep teh Gatwick slots so it can return at some undisclosed point of time in the future, but it's hard to see how it can do that if "use it or lose it" is reinstated in the near future - so realistically it's in the hope that they might actually be worth something once this is all over.

No announcements yet if the bucket and spade routes they ran from Gatwick will actual move to Heathrow, or will just be cut all together.

Gatwick is looking like it's in serious trouble, with BA also warning they could pull out at least temporarily - while Easyjet is the largest airline there, the big money has always come out of BA/Virgin/the other Long Haul carriers
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