SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

All things Rugby
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31908
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Ali's Choice »

After 20 years of threatening to leave Super rugby, it appears as if the SARU have finalised a deal for their 5 Super Rugby teams to join the Pro 14, which was expand to become the Pro 18.

Good luck to both the South African fans and the Celtic Rugby fans on this forum. I look forward to seeing how this pans out over the coming years. Could be a great thing, but it could also be the beginning of the end for the Pro 14.


https://www.ultimaterugby.com/news/sout ... ort/627556
South African Teams To Leave Super Rugby For The PRO14 - report
May 31, 2020 53362 Ultimate Rugby

The five South African teams currently participating in Super Rugby could leave the Southern Hemisphere competition to form part of an expanded Pro18 competition, according to a report in the Republic.

According to Afrikaans newspaper The Rapport, this could happen as early as next year, in 2022 or in 2023 at the latest.

If the Bulls, Lions, Sharks and Stormers were to form part of a Pro18, either the Cheetahs or Kings would presumably fall out of the competition.

'I think the decision that all our South African [Super Rugby] teams play in the Pro14 next year has already been made,' a source, who is highly placed at a local franchise, told Rapport.

'Because of the pandemic, there are some restrictions on flights to Australia and New Zealand.'

Sanzaar's new broadcast deal, which runs from 2021 to the end of 2025, includes a 14-team Super Rugby tournament with four South African sides.

However, the suspension of the 2020 season due to the coronavirus pandemic has reportedly deepened the divide between SA Rugby and its Sanzaar partners at Super Rugby level.

There has been talk of a new Super Rugby tournament which excludes South Africa, with some senior Australian and New Zealand players reportedly in favour of this.

Full story
User avatar
Sandstorm
Posts: 28882
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Chickenrunning...

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Sandstorm »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Good luck
I don't believe you
User avatar
sorCrer
Posts: 12459
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by sorCrer »

Sandstorm wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Good luck
I don't believe you
I do. AC is a rugby man at heart and although saddened by us leaving knows it's probably best for Antipod rugby. :thumbup:
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31908
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Ali's Choice »

Sandstorm wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Good luck
I don't believe you
No, I do wish you good luck. Convincing the Irish, Scottish and Welsh Unions to move their season to summer will be tough going. But I am confident you can achieve this, given you managed to convince the much stronger and wealthier NZR to keep letting new SA teams enter Super Rugby, even when it was clear you didn't have the depth for more franchises. And you also convinced NZR to let your crooked, shit-house referees officiate your own teams, which turned into a complete farce.
User avatar
assfly
Posts: 10315
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Kenya

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by assfly »

How is this report any different to what has already been rumoured?
User avatar
handyman
Posts: 14184
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by handyman »

How long will NZ teams and supporters be happy to play poor Aussie teams?
User avatar
Average Joe
Posts: 5593
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:48 pm

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Average Joe »

Cheers bro, enjoy playing shithouse Australia with their shithouse ref's. See you on the flip side.
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31908
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Ali's Choice »

assfly wrote:How is this report any different to what has already been rumoured?
It's not really, it just confirms rumours.

I hope that given all three of the original nations of SANZAR want an end to Super Rugby, that we facilitate this sooner rather than later. No waiting for 2022 or beyond. Let's drain the swamp asap so everyone can get on with their lives.
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31908
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Ali's Choice »

Average Joe wrote:Cheers bro, enjoy playing shithouse Australia with their shithouse ref's. See you on the flip side.
No referees will ever be as crooked, and as biased, as the disgraceful referees you imposed on Super Rugby over the past few years. You should be ashamed of your country's referees.
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31908
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Ali's Choice »

handyman wrote:How long will NZ teams and supporters be happy to play poor Aussie teams?

Super Rugby titles won

Australia 4
South Africa 3

:lol:
User avatar
mr bungle
Posts: 13078
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by mr bungle »

handyman wrote:How long will NZ teams and supporters be happy to play poor Aussie teams?
Australian teams have had a bad recent run, but they’ve probably been collectively stronger than SA sides. That won’t turn around in a hurry. Conference system aided a few more SA teams to the final, but even then they couldn’t win at home. South African teams traditionally travel poorly, so I wouldn’t expect them to dominate the Pro14 should that be where they end up.

We all struggle with distance between our countries. That’s the curse of the SH.
User avatar
Slim 293
Posts: 6060
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Straya plum

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Slim 293 »

handyman wrote:How long will NZ teams and supporters be happy to play poor Aussie teams?

Look, I don't really care about the other Australian teams... but last year...

Brumbies 4 - South African teams 0

:smug:
User avatar
Average Joe
Posts: 5593
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:48 pm

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Average Joe »

Historically South Africa produced some of the best ref's in world Rugby. We've also produced some poor ref's but compared to some other countries we've done very well in the ref department.

As I said enjoy your Trans-tasmin comp while it lasts. Seeing as the AB's are always begging England for a share of their match fees I don't see how long this new comp would last. With the Ozzies already bankrupt, NZ would have to carry the burden alone. If you could perhaps convince Japan to join you could probably make enough but then you'll have to play the Sunwolves 2.0 every fokon weekend.
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31908
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Ali's Choice »

Average Joe wrote:Historically South Africa produced some of the best ref's in world Rugby. We've also produced some poor ref's but compared to some other countries we've done very well in the ref department.

As I said enjoy your Trans-tasmin comp while it lasts. Seeing as the AB's are always begging England for a share of their match fees I don't see how long this new comp would last. With the Ozzies already bankrupt, NZ would have to carry the burden alone. If you could perhaps convince Japan to join you could probably make enough but then you'll have to play the Sunwolves 2.0 every fokon weekend.
What do international match fees have to do with Super Rugby?

A Trans Tasman comp, with four or five matches played every weekend at viewer friendly times, will be an absolute game changer in this part of the world. No more staying up until 3am to watch your team get smashed 16-2 in penalty counts by a local referees.
User avatar
Average Joe
Posts: 5593
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:48 pm

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Average Joe »

mr bungle wrote:
handyman wrote:How long will NZ teams and supporters be happy to play poor Aussie teams?
Australian teams have had a bad recent run, but they’ve probably been collectively stronger than SA sides. That won’t turn around in a hurry. Conference system aided a few more SA teams to the final, but even then they couldn’t win at home. South African teams traditionally travel poorly, so I wouldn’t expect them to dominate the Pro14 should that be where they end up.

We all struggle with distance between our countries. That’s the curse of the SH.
The Cheetahs was well on their way to make it to the play-offs this year. Their second year in a new comp. They were considered not good enough for Super Rugby. The bigger unions will make Pro14 their bitches.
User avatar
mr bungle
Posts: 13078
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by mr bungle »

Ali's Choice wrote:No more staying up until 3am to watch your team get smashed 16-2 in penalty counts by a local referees.


Yet invariably winning.
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31908
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Ali's Choice »

Average Joe wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
handyman wrote:How long will NZ teams and supporters be happy to play poor Aussie teams?
Australian teams have had a bad recent run, but they’ve probably been collectively stronger than SA sides. That won’t turn around in a hurry. Conference system aided a few more SA teams to the final, but even then they couldn’t win at home. South African teams traditionally travel poorly, so I wouldn’t expect them to dominate the Pro14 should that be where they end up.

We all struggle with distance between our countries. That’s the curse of the SH.
The Cheetahs was well on their way to make it to the play-offs this year. Their second year in a new comp. They were considered not good enough for Super Rugby. The bigger unions will make Pro14 their bitches.
:lol: easy rugby
User avatar
assfly
Posts: 10315
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Kenya

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by assfly »

I will certainly miss it. I've been watching a few classic matches lately, and for me the Super 14 was the best format we had. The crowds we used to get at some matches! :shock:

Cant' say that the last few have been vintage for the comp.
User avatar
mr bungle
Posts: 13078
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by mr bungle »

Average Joe wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
handyman wrote:How long will NZ teams and supporters be happy to play poor Aussie teams?
Australian teams have had a bad recent run, but they’ve probably been collectively stronger than SA sides. That won’t turn around in a hurry. Conference system aided a few more SA teams to the final, but even then they couldn’t win at home. South African teams traditionally travel poorly, so I wouldn’t expect them to dominate the Pro14 should that be where they end up.

We all struggle with distance between our countries. That’s the curse of the SH.
The Cheetahs was well on their way to make it to the play-offs this year. Their second year in a new comp. They were considered not good enough for Super Rugby. The bigger unions will make Pro14 their bitches.
:thumbup:
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31908
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Ali's Choice »

assfly wrote:I will certainly miss it. I've been watching a few classic matches lately, and for me the Super 14 was the best format we had. The crowds we used to get at some matches! :shock:

Cant' say that the last few have been vintage for the comp.
Super 12 for me :thumbup:
User avatar
assfly
Posts: 10315
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Kenya

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by assfly »

Ali's Choice wrote:Super 12 for me :thumbup:
To think that I used to get up at 4am to watch some matches. They were like test matches.
User avatar
Sandstorm
Posts: 28882
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Chickenrunning...

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Sandstorm »

Ali's Choice wrote: No more staying up until 3am
You haven't watched a Soup game at 3am in a decade. You proudly tell us that every weekend.
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31908
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Ali's Choice »

assfly wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:Super 12 for me :thumbup:
To think that I used to get up at 4am to watch some matches. They were like test matches.
At university in the late 1990's I would routinely watch every match every round, including all the ones played in SA.
User avatar
Chilli
Posts: 15936
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Chilli »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Average Joe wrote:Historically South Africa produced some of the best ref's in world Rugby. We've also produced some poor ref's but compared to some other countries we've done very well in the ref department.

As I said enjoy your Trans-tasmin comp while it lasts. Seeing as the AB's are always begging England for a share of their match fees I don't see how long this new comp would last. With the Ozzies already bankrupt, NZ would have to carry the burden alone. If you could perhaps convince Japan to join you could probably make enough but then you'll have to play the Sunwolves 2.0 every fokon weekend.
What do international match fees have to do with Super Rugby?

A Trans Tasman comp, with four or five matches played every weekend at viewer friendly times, will be an absolute game changer in this part of the world. No more staying up until 3am to watch your team get smashed 16-2 in penalty counts by a local referees.
Would you not want to include a team from each of the Pacific Islands? Or a combination South Sea Warriors team?
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31908
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Ali's Choice »

Chilli wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Average Joe wrote:Historically South Africa produced some of the best ref's in world Rugby. We've also produced some poor ref's but compared to some other countries we've done very well in the ref department.

As I said enjoy your Trans-tasmin comp while it lasts. Seeing as the AB's are always begging England for a share of their match fees I don't see how long this new comp would last. With the Ozzies already bankrupt, NZ would have to carry the burden alone. If you could perhaps convince Japan to join you could probably make enough but then you'll have to play the Sunwolves 2.0 every fokon weekend.
What do international match fees have to do with Super Rugby?

A Trans Tasman comp, with four or five matches played every weekend at viewer friendly times, will be an absolute game changer in this part of the world. No more staying up until 3am to watch your team get smashed 16-2 in penalty counts by a local referees.
Would you not want to include a team from each of the Pacific Islands? Or a combination South Sea Warriors team?
Nope they are national teams. Including them in a club/franchise comp would be degrading, and cheapen the international game.
User avatar
Average Joe
Posts: 5593
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:48 pm

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Average Joe »

Not our fault if you lived in a cave for the past 30 years. Times have changed. You can now, by the press of a button record anything anytime and watch it when it suits you. Who the fok wakes up at 3 to watch sport these days?
User avatar
Chilli
Posts: 15936
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Chilli »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Chilli wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Average Joe wrote:Historically South Africa produced some of the best ref's in world Rugby. We've also produced some poor ref's but compared to some other countries we've done very well in the ref department.

As I said enjoy your Trans-tasmin comp while it lasts. Seeing as the AB's are always begging England for a share of their match fees I don't see how long this new comp would last. With the Ozzies already bankrupt, NZ would have to carry the burden alone. If you could perhaps convince Japan to join you could probably make enough but then you'll have to play the Sunwolves 2.0 every fokon weekend.
What do international match fees have to do with Super Rugby?

A Trans Tasman comp, with four or five matches played every weekend at viewer friendly times, will be an absolute game changer in this part of the world. No more staying up until 3am to watch your team get smashed 16-2 in penalty counts by a local referees.
Would you not want to include a team from each of the Pacific Islands? Or a combination South Sea Warriors team?
Nope they are national teams. Including them in a club/franchise comp would be degrading, and cheapen the international game.
It worked for Argentina......
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31908
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Ali's Choice »

Chilli wrote:It worked for Argentina......
Except the Pumas don't play in SR, and never did.
User avatar
Chilli
Posts: 15936
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Chilli »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Chilli wrote:It worked for Argentina......
Except the Pumas don't play in SR, and never did.
The Pumas play in their Jaguares disguise.
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31908
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Ali's Choice »

Chilli wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Chilli wrote:It worked for Argentina......
Except the Pumas don't play in SR, and never did.
The Pumas play in their Jaguares disguise.
Loads of Pumas at the recent RWC didn't play for the Jaguares.
User avatar
Jensrsa
Posts: 25415
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Jensrsa »

What I'd like to see is that the SANZAAR unions get their domestic competitions up to standard again and that a Heineken Cup style competition be created internationally
User avatar
Jensrsa
Posts: 25415
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Jensrsa »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Chilli wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Chilli wrote:It worked for Argentina......
Except the Pumas don't play in SR, and never did.
The Pumas play in their Jaguares disguise.
Loads of Pumas at the recent RWC didn't play for the Jaguares.
3 out of 32 - Figallo, Sanchez and Urdapilleta
Edit: Sorry, 5. Ezcurra and Mensa are listed for lower level clubs in Argentina

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Rugb ... #Argentina
User avatar
Clogs
Posts: 5045
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Clogs »

The South Africans will probably now get to play against the better keewees and Aussies if they move comps. And SA will be able to pick for the boks from a bigger pool of players.
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31908
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Ali's Choice »

Clogs wrote:The South Africans will probably now get to play against the better keewees and Aussies if they move comps. And SA will be able to pick for the boks from a bigger pool of players.
They've already been picking players from the NH for years, so why would the pool be bigger?
User avatar
Jensrsa
Posts: 25415
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Jensrsa »

A more complete summary of the article only the partially quoted in the OP
Afrikaans newspaper Rapport indicated on Sunday that one of the proposals could see the Currie Cup played from November to January.

It would help to prepare locally-based Springboks for the 2021 Rugby Championship, which - according to the report - could be played in March and April, the same time as the northern hemisphere's Six Nations.

Southern hemisphere governing body Sanzaar and its northern contemporaries recently confirmed they were working closely together to develop proposals for an aligned global calendar.

According to the report, other options that SA Rugby CEO Jurie Roux discussed with CEOs of South Africa's franchises over the past week include:

- The Springboks may be involved in a new international 'north and south tournament' from October-November 2021.

- The Springboks' Tests that were scheduled to be played in South Africa in July this year may be moved to October.

- Next year's British & Irish Lions tour, scheduled for July and August, could be postponed to September or October 2021. If the tour cannot take place next year, there is a scenario where it only takes place in 2025.

- There are two options for the European season. It would either run from February to September or from December to July.

Meanwhile, there are also talks that South Africa could leave Super Rugby with five out the country's franchises playing in an expanded PRO18.
https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/CurrieC ... h-20200601
User avatar
Average Joe
Posts: 5593
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:48 pm

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Average Joe »

Jensrsa wrote:What I'd like to see is that the SANZAAR unions get their domestic competitions up to standard again and that a Heineken Cup style competition be created internationally
In an ideal world this would be my preference as well.
User avatar
Clogs
Posts: 5045
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Clogs »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Clogs wrote:The South Africans will probably now get to play against the better keewees and Aussies if they move comps. And SA will be able to pick for the boks from a bigger pool of players.
They've already been picking players from the NH for years, so why would the pool be bigger?
Because even more SA kids can head over to get paid in Europe straight from the school system than get locked into the academies in SA. Far more opportunities, bigger pool better boks playing with and against fellow boks in the same comp.
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 31908
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Ali's Choice »

Clogs wrote:Because even more SA kids can head over to get paid in Europe straight from the school system than get locked into the academies in SA. Far more opportunities, bigger pool better boks playing with and against fellow boks in the same comp.
Yes, that will be a great opportunity for young Saffers to earn money as teenagers. But whilst they are being recruited straight from school, to learn their craft in the inferior Welsh, Scottish and Italian academy programs, the best Kiwi players will continue to develop and blossom in NZ's world class systems.
User avatar
PornDog
Posts: 2736
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by PornDog »

The five South African teams currently participating in Super Rugby
If the Bulls, Lions, Sharks and Stormers were to form part of a Pro18, either the Cheetahs or Kings would presumably fall out of the competition.
1,2,3,4.........5?

4+14 = 18 so obviously one team would have to drop out, to make it 18 teams!!!


When basic knowledge of SA rugby, and even worse their knowledge of basic maths, is beyond the writer and editor, I think we can safely discount everything else discussed in this article.
User avatar
Luciano
Posts: 576
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:43 pm

Re: SARU - " Totsiens Verloorders!"

Post by Luciano »

Jensrsa wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Chilli wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Chilli wrote:It worked for Argentina......
Except the Pumas don't play in SR, and never did.
The Pumas play in their Jaguares disguise.
Loads of Pumas at the recent RWC didn't play for the Jaguares.
3 out of 32 - Figallo, Sanchez and Urdapilleta
Edit: Sorry, 5. Ezcurra and Mensa are listed for lower level clubs in Argentina

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Rugb ... #Argentina
Yep, and I think that was the maximum ever use of foreign based players for the Pumas since the inception of the Jaguares. Jaguares (stupidily) provided 90% of the players to the Pumas.

They were the Pumas in practice, adding a token TH, FH, or SH from time to time.

In the end, we obtained our best results in RWCs with EU based players (2007) or a combination of EU/Pampas XV players (2015). The probably defunct 'Pumaguares' were a good franchise, but not a great international team, due to exhaustion and a small picking pool.

Good luck to SA and the rest of the SR bunch in the new competitions ! :o

But don't forget to throw us a bone, mofos.
Post Reply