Hurricanes vs Crusaders: MATCH THREAD: June 21

[Ali's Choice]

WHEN:
Sunday 21st June

KICK OFF:
Auckland - 3.05pm
Sydney – 1.05pm

WHERE:
Wellington, NZ



VENUE:
Sky Stadium, Wellington



MATCH OFFICIALS:
TBC

TEAMS:





15. Chase Tiatia
14. Wes Goosen
13. Vince Aso
12. Ngani Laumape
11. Ben Lam
10. Jackson Garden-Bachop
9. TJ Perenara (cc)

8. Ardie Savea
7. Du’Plessis Kirifi
6. Reed Prinsep
5. Vaea Fifita
4. James Blackwell
3. Tyrel Lomax
2. Dane Coles (cc)
1. Fraser Armstrong,

Reserves:

16. Asafo Aumua
17. Ben May
18. Alex Fidow
19. Scott Scrafton
20. Gareth Evans
21. Jamie Booth
22. Billy Proctor
23. Kobus Van Wyk.




1. Joe Moody
2. Codie Taylor (C)
3. Michael Alaalatoa
4. Samuel Whitelock
5. Mitchell Dunshea
6. Cullen Grace
7. Billy Harmon
8. Whetukamokamo Douglas (VC)
9. Bryn Hall
10. Richie Mo'unga
11. George Bridge
12. Jack Goodhue
13. Braydon Ennor
14. Sevu Reece
15. Will Jordan

RESERVES:

16. Brodie McAlister
17. George Bower
18. Oliver Jager
19. Luke Romano
20. Ethan Blackadder
21. Mitchell Drummond
22. David Havili (VC)
23. Leicester Faingaanuku

[Kiwias]

Damn it is good to see a match thread!!!

[Ali's Choice]

Only a fortnight until this match is played. I'm not happy about the Crusaders being forced to have the bye in round 1. Just more evidence of NZR's conspiracy against the Crusaders. I'd have thought that with Steve Tew gone, perhaps this silly war that NZR has waged on the Crusders would be over - but it appears not. Sam Whitelock will have lots to prove in this match, having being overlooked for the AB captaincy job.

[Ali's Choice]

Damn it is good to see a match thread!!!

Yes I thought I'd start the first one since COVID-19 closed down the game.

Two games next week prior to this match, so get to it Super Rugby Aoteara fans!

[UncleFB]

Only a fortnight until this match is played. I'm not happy about the Crusaders being forced to have the bye in round 1. Just more evidence of NZR's conspiracy against the Crusaders. I'd have thought that with Steve Tew perhaps this silly war that NZR has waged on the Crusders would be over - but it appears not. Sam Whitelock will have lots to prove in this match, having being overlooked for the AB captaincy job.

I like how Cantabrian ex Crusaders CEO Steve Tew was waging a war on the Crusaders and now ex Crusader current CEO Mark Robinson has continued waging that war and the current offensive is give them a bye in a comp where every team has the same number of byes.

Your Cantab Civil War has given us great foruming over the years TBF.

Pity that at this stage in Oz we can't even watch the bloody games (legally).

[Ali's Choice]

Only a fortnight until this match is played. I'm not happy about the Crusaders being forced to have the bye in round 1. Just more evidence of NZR's conspiracy against the Crusaders. I'd have thought that with Steve Tew perhaps this silly war that NZR has waged on the Crusders would be over - but it appears not. Sam Whitelock will have lots to prove in this match, having being overlooked for the AB captaincy job.

I like how Cantabrian ex Crusaders CEO Steve Tew was waging a war on the Crusaders and now ex Crusader current CEO Mark Robinson has continued waging that war and the current offensive is give them a bye in a comp where every team has the same number of byes.

Your Cantab Civil War has given us great foruming over the years TBF.

Pity that at this stage in Oz we can't even watch the bloody games (legally).

Hopefully Foxtel come to the party. I pay for Foxtel to watch the All Blacks and the Crusaders and if I can't watch this comp there is no point in my monthly subscription.

[UncleFB]

Only a fortnight until this match is played. I'm not happy about the Crusaders being forced to have the bye in round 1. Just more evidence of NZR's conspiracy against the Crusaders. I'd have thought that with Steve Tew perhaps this silly war that NZR has waged on the Crusders would be over - but it appears not. Sam Whitelock will have lots to prove in this match, having being overlooked for the AB captaincy job.

I like how Cantabrian ex Crusaders CEO Steve Tew was waging a war on the Crusaders and now ex Crusader current CEO Mark Robinson has continued waging that war and the current offensive is give them a bye in a comp where every team has the same number of byes.

Your Cantab Civil War has given us great foruming over the years TBF.

Pity that at this stage in Oz we can't even watch the bloody games (legally).

Hopefully Foxtel come to the party. I pay for Foxtel to watch the All Blacks and the Crusaders and if I can't watch this comp there is no point in my monthly subscription.

I'm not paying for anything at the moment, will switch Kayo back on when they confirm the rugby. I watched an illegal stream of the Warriors last night, which serves me right as they were absolute straight up garbage.

Foxtel specifically told my mate they'd have the NZ Super comp when he decided to keep his subscription back when Covid was kicking off, so hopefully they're just ironing out the kinks in the broadcast contract.

[Ali's Choice]

I'm not paying for anything at the moment, will switch Kayo back on when they confirm the rugby. I watched an illegal stream of the Warriors last night, which serves me right as they were absolute straight up garbage.

Foxtel specifically told my mate they'd have the NZ Super comp when he decided to keep his subscription back when Covid was kicking off, so hopefully they're just ironing out the kinks in the broadcast contract.

I've heard that crowds might be allowed to attend. And not socially distanced micro crowds, actual proper crowds. I think that would elevate this comp to being the best sports product on the planet if that can happen.

[UncleFB]

I'm not paying for anything at the moment, will switch Kayo back on when they confirm the rugby. I watched an illegal stream of the Warriors last night, which serves me right as they were absolute straight up garbage.

Foxtel specifically told my mate they'd have the NZ Super comp when he decided to keep his subscription back when Covid was kicking off, so hopefully they're just ironing out the kinks in the broadcast contract.

I've heard that crowds might be allowed to attend. And not socially distanced micro crowds, actual proper crowds. I think that would elevate this comp to being the best sports product on the planet if that can happen.

They also had the crowd noise turned up too much in the Warriors match this week, last week was a better volume.

[Ali's Choice]

I think the Hurricanes will struggle this year without a world class first five. History has shown us time and time again that to win this competition you need a high quality 10. And the Hurricanes lack that.

I think this will be a two horse race between the Chiefs and the Crusaders. I think there is lots of hype around the Blues, but for me the verdict is still out on the Aucklanders.

[jamesfreeman]

Going to be a fun comp to watch, yeah resigned myself to hurricanes not being overly successful this season. I backing the chiefs and be interesting to see how still dominant crusaders can be. Every match will be a good derby...

[Dan54.]

Only a fortnight until this match is played. I'm not happy about the Crusaders being forced to have the bye in round 1. Just more evidence of NZR's conspiracy against the Crusaders. I'd have thought that with Steve Tew perhaps this silly war that NZR has waged on the Crusders would be over - but it appears not. Sam Whitelock will have lots to prove in this match, having being overlooked for the AB captaincy job.

I like how Cantabrian ex Crusaders CEO Steve Tew was waging a war on the Crusaders and now ex Crusader current CEO Mark Robinson has continued waging that war and the current offensive is give them a bye in a comp where every team has the same number of byes.

Your Cantab Civil War has given us great foruming over the years TBF.

Pity that at this stage in Oz we can't even watch the bloody games (legally).

Hopefully Foxtel come to the party. I pay for Foxtel to watch the All Blacks and the Crusaders and if I can't watch this comp there is no point in my monthly subscription.

I have noted that Foxtel have nothing booked in on usual rugby channel next weekend, so like you very hopeful, especially as Rugbypass aren't streaming it here, that will be because someone has rights (or is expecting ) to it I guess.

[Ali's Choice]

Going to be a fun comp to watch, yeah resigned myself to hurricanes not being overly successful this season. I backing the chiefs and be interesting to see how still dominant crusaders can be. Every match will be a good derby...

Keep in mind that the Crusaders lost over a thousand SR caps in the off-season with the departures of Read, Franks, Crockett, Crotty, Taufua, Todd etc. They will still be competitive but I don't expect them to win the comp. 2020 was always going to be a rebuilding year. My focus will be on the development of some of our youngsters, and in particular our backrow. I'm a fully financial member of the Cullen Grace reach-around club and I hope he continues to have a great season.

[Dan54.]

Only a fortnight until this match is played. I'm not happy about the Crusaders being forced to have the bye in round 1. Just more evidence of NZR's conspiracy against the Crusaders. I'd have thought that with Steve Tew gone, perhaps this silly war that NZR has waged on the Crusders would be over - but it appears not. Sam Whitelock will have lots to prove in this match, having being overlooked for the AB captaincy job.

I do wonder why the Crusader centric NZRU are so open in their continual bias towards the Crusaders, while all teams have been unable to train etc for so long, they choose to give the Crusaders and extra week to get their players in condition and work on game plans, an extra week to watch what the Canes game plan will be and train to match it, and with the Canes having to play an inform Blues team first up, and will be probably a bit battered and bruised, you would have to think if the Crusaders don't come into this match expecting a solid victory, they would have huge problems!! Crusaders/NZRU have obviously decided to make it easy as possible for Crusaders and if they don't win the comp in a canter, I would expect it to be a complete failure of a season !



FFS about time we got a bit of spite in match threads again!!

[Ali's Choice]

What will be very interesting to see is the conditioning of the players. NZ has just come out of a very strict lockown, with no gyms access to gyms. Players will not be as strong as usual. It will be interesting to see which players kept themselves in shape and didn't overeat over isolatin, and which one's weren't as disciplined. Akira Ioane's new Facebook profile pic should be slightly worrying for Blues fans

[guy smiley]

I think the Hurricanes will struggle this year without a world class first five. History has shown us time and time again that to win this competition you need a high quality 10. And the Hurricanes lack that.

Have the Hurricanes had a world class first five in living memory?

FFS about time we got a bit of spite in match threads again!!

Try to resist Dan.

Leave it to those who can.

[Ali's Choice]

I think the Hurricanes will struggle this year without a world class first five. History has shown us time and time again that to win this competition you need a high quality 10. And the Hurricanes lack that.

Have the Hurricanes had a world class first five in living memory?

At his peak, Barrett was a world class 10. His style was also much more suited to SR than it ever was to international rugby. NH 'easy rugby' fans will have us believe that Jimmy Gopperth is a world class 10, but this was never evident in NZ.

[UncleFB]

I think the Hurricanes will struggle this year without a world class first five. History has shown us time and time again that to win this competition you need a high quality 10. And the Hurricanes lack that.

Have the Hurricanes had a world class first five in living memory?

At his peak, Barrett was a world class 10. His style was also much more suited to SR than it ever was to international rugby. NH 'easy rugby' fans will have us believe that Jimmy Gopperth is a world class 10, but this was never evident in NZ.

They were an idiotic coach away from having another word class 10 in Cruden as well.

[Ali's Choice]

So what's a likely Crusaders XXIII?

I'm not 100% sure about the injury status of Blackadder and Havili, but assuming everyone is fit, I think this is close to our strongest 23;

15. David Havili
14. Sevu Reece
13. Brayden Ennor
12. Jack Goodhue
11. George Bridge
10. Richie Mo'unga
9. Bryn Hall

8. Whetu Douglas
7. Tom Christie
6. Cullen Grace
5. Sam Whitelock
4. Scott Barrett
3. Mike Ala'alatoa
2. Codie Taylor
1. Joe Moody

16. Andrew Makalio
17.George Bower
18. Harry Allan
19. Quentin Strange
20. Ethan Blackadder
21. Mitch Drummond
22. Brett Cameron
23. Will Jordan

Still very weak in the backrow and on the bench. The reserve front rowers are Mitre 10 Cup level at best. Our strongest positions are still in the backs, with quality wingers Manasa Mata'ele and Leicester Faingaanuku unable to make this 23. They would be starting in most other club/franchise teams around the world.

[Wilderbeast]

I think the Hurricanes will struggle this year without a world class first five. History has shown us time and time again that to win this competition you need a high quality 10. And the Hurricanes lack that.

Have the Hurricanes had a world class first five in living memory?

That’s some rancid bait right there.

[kiwigreg369]

Crowd is corporate boxes only - so not likely to create much noise....

[Ali's Choice]

Crowd is corporate boxes only - so not likely to create much noise....

Really? On the Project earlier in the week they showed a clip of Jacinta Adern saying that on Monday 8th June the rules could change to allow concerts and sports events to be full.

[kiwigreg369]

And btw - canes fans, own the game. It’s your home match.

Poor form for AC to start but you’re the ones feeding the beast

[Ali's Choice]

And btw - canes fans, own the game. It’s your home match.

Poor form for AC to start but you’re the ones feeding the beast

Poor form to start a Rugby thread after 3 months of isolation and no Rugby globally?

[JB1981]

I think the Hurricanes will struggle this year without a world class first five. History has shown us time and time again that to win this competition you need a high quality 10. And the Hurricanes lack that.

Have the Hurricanes had a world class first five in living memory?

That’s some rancid bait right there.

They’ve had a solid utility in recent years who could produce moments of magic when not under any pressure .

[Ali's Choice]

In all seriousness, with the retirement on Read, Todd and Taufua in the off season this is arguably the first time ever in this history of clashes between these two teams that the Hurricanes will go into the contest with a superior backrow. Christie, Douglas and Grace need to step up, big time.

[kiwigreg369]

And btw - canes fans, own the game. It’s your home match.

Poor form for AC to start but you’re the ones feeding the beast

Poor form to start a Rugby thread after 3 months of isolation and no Rugby globally?

Yep, home team should own it. And you’re no Canes fan.

[Ali's Choice]

And btw - canes fans, own the game. It’s your home match.

Poor form for AC to start but you’re the ones feeding the beast

Poor form to start a Rugby thread after 3 months of isolation and no Rugby globally?

Yep, home team should own it. And you’re no Canes fan.

go f**k yourself!

[Dan54.]

I think the Hurricanes will struggle this year without a world class first five. History has shown us time and time again that to win this competition you need a high quality 10. And the Hurricanes lack that.

Have the Hurricanes had a world class first five in living memory?

That’s some rancid bait right there.

They’ve had a solid utility in recent years who could produce moments of magic when not under any pressure .

F*** would of been great if they could of had a 10 that won world rugby player of the year twice while playing 10, but no they got to struggle through with just a solid utility.

[Dan54.]

In all seriousness, with the retirement on Read, Todd and Taufua in the off season this is arguably the first time ever in this history of clashes between these two teams that the Hurricanes will go into the contest with a superior backrow. Christie, Douglas and Grace need to step up, big time.

F*** if being serious I think the whole Canes pack a problem, is Lomax back or still serving his suspension? That is my favourite prop in NZ at moment, will be ok in front row, locks are made of paper, and certainly got a struggle at 10, but ................

[Ali's Choice]

In all seriousness, with the retirement on Read, Todd and Taufua in the off season this is arguably the first time ever in this history of clashes between these two teams that the Hurricanes will go into the contest with a superior backrow. Christie, Douglas and Grace need to step up, big time.

F*** if being serious I think the whole Canes pack a problem, is Lomax back or still serving his suspension? That is my favourite prop in NZ at moment, will be ok in front row, locks are made of paper, and certainly got a struggle at 10, but ................

If you look at the Canes from a historical perspective, locks have been your problem since the very beginning. You've generally had strong backrows, and decent front rows. But your locks, the engine room of the pack, have often been weak. That's still an issue to this day. Isaia Walker-Leawere is promising but still hasn't transferred his U20's form to senior level, Liam Mitchell is only so, so and Scrafton is a journeyman.

[Flockwitt]

Will be interesting to see how the Canes go here. Obviously the Crusaders have an advantage with their illegal lock down ignoring team training sessions. Still the non-cardboard Canes supporters in their closely packed high atmosphere ground should provide a bit of vibe. I assume the Canes' coaches have at least learned their players names by now. Should be close and gritty.

Canes by a golden point.

[Dan54.]

In all seriousness, with the retirement on Read, Todd and Taufua in the off season this is arguably the first time ever in this history of clashes between these two teams that the Hurricanes will go into the contest with a superior backrow. Christie, Douglas and Grace need to step up, big time.

F*** if being serious I think the whole Canes pack a problem, is Lomax back or still serving his suspension? That is my favourite prop in NZ at moment, will be ok in front row, locks are made of paper, and certainly got a struggle at 10, but ................

If you look at the Canes from a historical perspective, locks have been your problem since the very beginning. You've generally had strong backrows, and decent front rows. But your locks, the engine room of the pack, have often been weak. That's still an issue to this day. Isaia Walker-Leawere is promising but still hasn't transferred his U20's form to senior level, Liam Mitchell is only so, so and Scrafton is a journeyman.

Yep no argument there, really we had Thrush who was a test player-just, but I can't think of another really good lock, as you say Mitchell and Scafton are handy M10 cup players and not a lot more, though I gave them credit for giving it everything, and Walker-Laeware seems to be struggling to make good on his promise.
Still I a Canes man so have got used to living with what we got.

[JB1981]

They’ve had a solid utility in recent years who could produce moments of magic when not under any pressure .

F*** would of been great if they could of had a 10 that won world rugby player of the year twice while playing 10, but no they got to struggle through with just a solid utility.

You missed the tongue-in-cheek wink?

On those awards though, one was justified, the other was an odd choice in a year he didn’t even get shortlisted for the NZ rugby awards (from memory). He’s a great player in open space who has worn 10 on his back, over the last three years we have seen that he is not a great first-five.

[UncleFB]

In all seriousness, with the retirement on Read, Todd and Taufua in the off season this is arguably the first time ever in this history of clashes between these two teams that the Hurricanes will go into the contest with a superior backrow. Christie, Douglas and Grace need to step up, big time.

F*** if being serious I think the whole Canes pack a problem, is Lomax back or still serving his suspension? That is my favourite prop in NZ at moment, will be ok in front row, locks are made of paper, and certainly got a struggle at 10, but ................

If you look at the Canes from a historical perspective, locks have been your problem since the very beginning. You've generally had strong backrows, and decent front rows. But your locks, the engine room of the pack, have often been weak. That's still an issue to this day. Isaia Walker-Leawere is promising but still hasn't transferred his U20's form to senior level, Liam Mitchell is only so, so and Scrafton is a journeyman.

Yep no argument there, really we had Thrush who was a test player-just, but I can't think of another really good lock, as you say Mitchell and Scafton are handy M10 cup players and not a lot more, though I gave them credit for giving it everything, and Walker-Laeware seems to be struggling to make good on his promise.
Still I a Canes man so have got used to living with what we got.

He hasn't had a chance to make good on his promise. Every time he comes on he goes well for the Canes ... yet they persist with the midget Blackwell at lock.

[Ali's Choice]

He hasn't had a chance to make good on his promise. Every time he comes on he goes well for the Canes ... yet they persist with the midget Blackwell at lock.

The problem is that Walker-Leawere isn't actually that big either. Sure at 125kg he's very heavy, but at 197cm he's never going to be tall enough to be a dominant lineout winning lock at international level. Not when you consider how heavy he is to lift. So he needs to develop into a Brad Thorn-esque hard working lock. And I'm not sure he's got the engine for that quite yet.

Aside from his relative lack of height, the other issues that Walker-Leawere has had to deal with are injuries early in his career, and being named U20's World Player of the Year. This award can be a curse as much as a gift. Players get a false sense of their relative worth, and can tend to rest on their laurels. I'm not suggesting that this has happened with Isaia, but the fact is that he has not come close to matching his achievements as a junior. Still, at 23 years of age he still has time. NZ need to develop replacements for Retallick and Whitelock, so he will have opportunities if he is good enough.

[Ghost-Of-Nepia]

Crowd is corporate boxes only - so not likely to create much noise....

Really? On the Project earlier in the week they showed a clip of Jacinta Adern saying that on Monday 8th June the rules could change to allow concerts and sports events to be full.

You are correct, Ali. Greg is not.

If we move to Level 1 this coming week, crowds will be welcomed back. The Highlanders CEO said they are all set to have tickets available for sale on Monday afternoon for this week's game if Level 1 is a reality.

[Ali's Choice]

Crowd is corporate boxes only - so not likely to create much noise....

Really? On the Project earlier in the week they showed a clip of Jacinta Adern saying that on Monday 8th June the rules could change to allow concerts and sports events to be full.

You are correct, Ali. Greg is not.

If we move to Level 1 this coming week, crowds will be welcomed back. The Highlanders CEO said they are all set to have tickets available for sale on Monday afternoon for this week's game if Level 1 is a reality.

That's extremely good news for this competition

[Flockwitt]

In all seriousness, with the retirement on Read, Todd and Taufua in the off season this is arguably the first time ever in this history of clashes between these two teams that the Hurricanes will go into the contest with a superior backrow. Christie, Douglas and Grace need to step up, big time.

F*** if being serious I think the whole Canes pack a problem, is Lomax back or still serving his suspension? That is my favourite prop in NZ at moment, will be ok in front row, locks are made of paper, and certainly got a struggle at 10, but ................

If you look at the Canes from a historical perspective, locks have been your problem since the very beginning. You've generally had strong backrows, and decent front rows. But your locks, the engine room of the pack, have often been weak. That's still an issue to this day. Isaia Walker-Leawere is promising but still hasn't transferred his U20's form to senior level, Liam Mitchell is only so, so and Scrafton is a journeyman.

Yep no argument there, really we had Thrush who was a test player-just, but I can't think of another really good lock, as you say Mitchell and Scafton are handy M10 cup players and not a lot more, though I gave them credit for giving it everything, and Walker-Laeware seems to be struggling to make good on his promise.
Still I a Canes man so have got used to living with what we got.

He hasn't had a chance to make good on his promise. Every time he comes on he goes well for the Canes ... yet they persist with the midget Blackwell at lock.

The problem is that if you've got a good fringe almost AB lock, unlike Franklin for the Clan, the rest have all cleared out. Fatialofa was key to the side after being worked up over a couple of seasons, then left. Lousi got better season on season, then got injured, then left. It's the lack of retainment that is as much the issue. A rebuilding needs to be followed by another rebuilding which ensures those weak seasons. I'm not sure if the Canes wouldn't be better going for a lock after their prime trying to find someone who is dissatisfied with the NH and wants to come home for stability. Or grab a saffer who wants to get out.

[Ted.]

And btw - canes fans, own the game. It’s your home match.

Poor form for AC to start but you’re the ones feeding the beast

Why on earth would any of us start a match thread when we are a match away from this one. We wear long pants, y'know. Mostly.