Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

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Nieghorn
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by Nieghorn »

wamberal99 wrote:
shanky wrote: It's the kids who come good at 18-19 who often get missed because they're not 'on the pathway'.

The "pathways" issue gets raised a lot. I have always assumed that if a kid is good enough, and has enough drive, is willing to work hard enough, he (or she) will make it. Mark Nawaqinatawase made it, I do not know his whole story, maybe he had a leg up from someone, but he seems to have been picked for the u20 National team from Eastwood reserve grade? Hardly a gilded pathway, I would have thought. He was playing junior league a couple of years ago.

I dislike all the focus on "the pathway"... there are more and more critics coming out questioning all the effort for so little a 'return' given how so few 'make it' and how many get wrecked by it, physically, mentally or just end up hating the sport, quitting even club sport. This guy must rub sports orgs the wrong way, but speaks a lot of sense to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAytQI-MdvI ... and he's not about 'just for fun' either, if that clip sounds like it. Play properly, make it accessible for all, give everyone the best possible experience and instruction - not just the 'elites' - and talent will find its way.

There's also the "arm's race" of sports focusing on kids younger and younger and trying to capture / keep as many possible to prevent losing a 'gem' to another sport. Look at football clubs with U6 "academy" teams. :roll:
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shanky
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by shanky »

I like Wayne Goldsmith, he's got some good ideas.

He's got no hope here, though.

The rugby arms race is well and truly established. Too many vested interests.
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UncleFB
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by UncleFB »

shanky wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
shanky wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
wamberal99 wrote:

The "pathways" issue gets raised a lot. I have always assumed that if a kid is good enough, and has enough drive, is willing to work hard enough, he (or she) will make it. Mark Nawaqinatawase made it, I do not know his whole story, maybe he had a leg up from someone, but he seems to have been picked for the u20 National team from Eastwood reserve grade? Hardly a gilded pathway, I would have thought. He was playing junior league a couple of years ago.
I think the dudes last name almost 100% guarantees him a Wallabies wing spot. :lol:
Because of his Italian grandfather, you think?
Well you did have Campo for a number of years, but not sure how you moved from a persons last name to their Italian grandfather.
Just following your schtick bait
You didn't put the emoji afterwards! :x
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shanky
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by shanky »

:P
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wamberal99
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by wamberal99 »

shanky wrote: It's the kids who come good at 18-19 who often get missed because they're not 'on the pathway'.Will Miller is a good example.

Miller had his pathway, playing first grade for Norths, surely? He was pretty good at that level, but to my mind was a bit small for the next level up.


Mind you, as a Woodies tragic, there have been times when I have watched our unheralded front row absolutely schooling the Uni "stars" (particularly Tilse and Ryan) without getting any recognition. Pathways shmathways - either the selectors were biased or incompetent.
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Jerome Manning
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by Jerome Manning »

I don't think Ali Williams played rugby until his very late teens/early 20s and was a soccer goal keeper at school.
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Zakar
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by Zakar »

wamberal99 wrote:
shanky wrote: It's the kids who come good at 18-19 who often get missed because they're not 'on the pathway'.Will Miller is a good example.

Miller had his pathway, playing first grade for Norths, surely? He was pretty good at that level, but to my mind was a bit small for the next level up.


Mind you, as a Woodies tragic, there have been times when I have watched our unheralded front row absolutely schooling the Uni "stars" (particularly Tilse and Ryan) without getting any recognition. Pathways shmathways - either the selectors were biased or incompetent.
Miller is from Berry, played club for Shoalies. He had to commute 2 hours each way to play for Norths because the country rugby 'pathway' doesn't really lead anywhere anymore.
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shanky
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by shanky »

wamberal99 wrote:
shanky wrote: It's the kids who come good at 18-19 who often get missed because they're not 'on the pathway'.Will Miller is a good example.

Miller had his pathway, playing first grade for Norths, surely? He was pretty good at that level, but to my mind was a bit small for the next level up.


Mind you, as a Woodies tragic, there have been times when I have watched our unheralded front row absolutely schooling the Uni "stars" (particularly Tilse and Ryan) without getting any recognition. Pathways shmathways - either the selectors were biased or incompetent.
You're right, perhaps Miller sin't such a good example after all.

Anyone from Eastwood would be a much better pick :)
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shanky
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by shanky »

Jerome Manning wrote:I don't think Ali Williams played rugby until his very late teens/early 20s and was a soccer goal keeper at school.

Goalkeeper :shock:

That's a big body to be throwing around. Fair play to him
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kiap
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by kiap »

Jerome Manning wrote:I don't think Ali Williams played rugby until his very late teens/early 20s and was a soccer goal keeper at school.
It's funny, given there were rugby players both sides of his family tree.

Saying that, if you're a very tall kid in soccer there's a high chance it'd be in goal...
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UncleFB
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by UncleFB »

kiap wrote:
Jerome Manning wrote:I don't think Ali Williams played rugby until his very late teens/early 20s and was a soccer goal keeper at school.
It's funny, given there were rugby players both sides of his family tree.

Saying that, if you're a very tall kid in soccer there's a high chance it'd be in goal...
Is that true? I thought he just came from an English soccer following family.
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kiap
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by kiap »

UncleFB wrote:
kiap wrote:
Jerome Manning wrote:I don't think Ali Williams played rugby until his very late teens/early 20s and was a soccer goal keeper at school.
It's funny, given there were rugby players both sides of his family tree.

Saying that, if you're a very tall kid in soccer there's a high chance it'd be in goal...
Is that true? I thought he just came from an English soccer following family.
Well, ... it's verifiable. Your comment may have a low-level semblance but unfortunately doesn't provide mutual exclusivity ...
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UncleFB
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by UncleFB »

kiap wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
kiap wrote:
Jerome Manning wrote:I don't think Ali Williams played rugby until his very late teens/early 20s and was a soccer goal keeper at school.
It's funny, given there were rugby players both sides of his family tree.

Saying that, if you're a very tall kid in soccer there's a high chance it'd be in goal...
Is that true? I thought he just came from an English soccer following family.
Well, ... it's verifiable. Your comment may have a low-level semblance but unfortunately doesn't provide mutual exclusivity ...
Well, why don't you verify it for the masses then? :D
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kiap
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by kiap »

UncleFB wrote:Well, why don't you verify it for the masses then? :D
To point out your lazy and narrow modus operandus.
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UncleFB
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by UncleFB »

kiap wrote:
UncleFB wrote:Well, why don't you verify it for the masses then? :D
To point out your lazy and narrow modus operandus.
Huh. I only thought he came from an English soccer following family so I asked you whether it was true, I'm still none the wiser.

I just genuinely want to know if he has rugby players on both sides of his family tree - you have the scoop so give us the details.
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shanky
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by shanky »

Just for a laugh...

I have looked at the last Team list for the Waratahs (Rd 7 v Brumbies) to see whether they players came through the pathway 'system' or not.

From memory/knowledge so not likely 100% correct.

15 Kurtley Beale – Joeys – Pathway star
14 Jack Maddocks – pathway star
13 Alex Newsome - Joeys – fringe pathway star
12 Karmichael Hunt – League recruit – non-pathway but could have been back in the day?
11 Mark Nawaqanitawase – non-pathway
10 Will Harrison - pathway
9 Mitch Short - Scots - pathway
8 Jack Dempsey – Definitely a pathway player
7 Michael Hooper – St Pius – Pathway player
6 Lachlan Swinton – Kings - pathway
5 Tom Staniforth – ACT – partially/maybe pathway
4 Rob Simmons - pathway
3 Harry Johnson-Holmes – Came from state school (CHS) which is unusual but class shines through
2 Damien Fitzpatrick - pathway
1 Gus Bell - pathway

Note that most of these guys are pedigree and were in the system from a young age. If you look at the wider squad, this drops away a bit and we got some more 'roughies' in the wider squad. Which goes to my comment about depth and the limitations of the pathway model. At least in my opinion 8)
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shanky
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by shanky »

And to their credit, the Unions are trying to widen the net

Last year was the first year that you could make Aussie Schoolboys without actually coming through the Schoolboys system (which naturally favoured the 'big' schools and their associations)

Now any 18-year old (who is good enough) can make the 'Australian U18s team'.

Imagine that...

Huzzah!
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by wamberal99 »

Just to show that I have an open mind on the subject (except on the question of our front rowers against the pretenders from the Student Corporation), no doubt the young players who are on the magical path get better access to training facilities, and that must be a great advantage for them.

I suppose it doesn't matter how much talent you have, if your physical development is lagging behind those players who are bigger, stronger, and fitter.
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shanky
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by shanky »

:lol: :thumbup:
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by Zakar »

Thought I'd check the last Brumbies team and compare to the Tahs

15. Banks - pathway (Brissie Boys)
14. Kata - non pathway, poached from league who poached
from Sacred Heart who poached from Tonga.
13. Kurindrani - non pathway (a state HS until UQ colts)
12. Simone - non pathway (Auckland school, Bunnies SG ball, Norths SS)
11. Moorhead - Pathway (brisbane SHS)
10. Loloseio - Pathway (schools straight to brumbies)
9. Powell - Pathway (u20s from Marist College)
8. Samu - non pathway (Melbourne club rugby)
7. Miller - non pathway (Illawarra club rugby)
6. Valentini- non pathway (Melbourne club rugby)
5. Neville - non pathway (AIS rowing ffs)
4. Douglas- non pathway (Scottish)
3. NRMA - Pathway (Newington)
2. FF - arguable (on one hand he was a labourer, the other he was playing for SUFC)
1. Slipper - Pathway (TSS)
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by Thomas »

Here's the last Reds team. Almost to a man from the pathways. The only exceptions are the kiwis and fijians we poached. This pretty much sums up QLD rugby. Unless you go to a GPS school, you won't get the opportunity to shine.

1. Dane Zander – pathways (but played 3rds at school)
2. Alex Mafi – pathways
3. Taniela Tupou – non-pathway (chur)
4. Angus Blyth – pathways
5. Harry Hockings – pathways (partial)
6. Lukhan Salakaia-Loto – non-pathway
7. Liam Wright (c) – pathways
8 . Harry Wilson – pathways
9. Scott Malolua – non-pathway
10. James O’Connor – pathways
11. Henry Speight – non-pathway
12. Hamish Stewart – pathways
13. Chris Feauai-Sautia – pathways
14. Bryce Hegarty – pathways (sort of)
15. Jock Campbell – pathways
Bench

16. Ed Craig – pathways
17. Harry Hoopert – pathways
18. Jack Straker - non-pathway
19. Angus Scott-Young – pathways
20. Fraser McReight – pathways
21. Tate McDermott – non-pathways
22. Isaac Lucas – pathways
23. Filipo Daugunu – pathways
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shanky
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by shanky »

Very interesting analysis that, lads...

:thumbup:

We're predominantly hostage to the system.

Take the red pill, Man!
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Zakar
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by Zakar »

Yep, Brumbies have always looked for more cast offs, along with bigger names, which has been their plan from inception.

Still a lot of pathway players though.
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by Zakar »

Newest rumours are is that he was insisting on a 2023 rwc exit clause in his contract, and Souths have chucked their toys out of the pram as a result. He might be coming to Rugby next year after all, for a relative song.
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wamberal
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by wamberal »

Thomas wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:05 am Here's the last Reds team. Almost to a man from the pathways. The only exceptions are the kiwis and fijians we poached. This pretty much sums up QLD rugby. Unless you go to a GPS school, you won't get the opportunity to shine.


16. Ed Craig – pathways

Epping Boys High School and Eastwood RUFC.
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Zakar
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by Zakar »

BPA is another public school guy too. Endeavour Boys.
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shanky
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by shanky »

Zakar wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:47 am BPA is another public school guy too. Endeavour Boys.
Classic example

He was a flanker,actually.

Got as far as NSW, but lost out in Aussie Schoolboys to some Tarquin who has sunk without trace since.
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Zakar
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by Zakar »

shanky wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:17 am
Zakar wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:47 am BPA is another public school guy too. Endeavour Boys.
Classic example

He was a flanker,actually.

Got as far as NSW, but lost out in Aussie Schoolboys to some Tarquin who has sunk without trace since.
You could put together a handy enough Beaches public school team... Cowan, Neville, Valentine and Hodge immediately spring to mind.
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shanky
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by shanky »

True.

It’s scary how many we lose to league though, round here.

I could name 2-3 who would be ‘not far off’ Sualli who are signed to league

David Wilson’s son is one of them. Jeez, he’s a talent.
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by grievous »

Oh come on, The Waratah Shield is the shadow of itself.
The number of high schools that once played rugby have been slashed in numbers.
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shanky
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by shanky »

grievous wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:14 pm Oh come on, The Waratah Shield is the shadow of itself.
The number of high schools that once played rugby have been slashed in numbers.
Is this aimed at me?
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by grievous »

shanky wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:24 pm
grievous wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:14 pm Oh come on, The Waratah Shield is the shadow of itself.
The number of high schools that once played rugby have been slashed in numbers.
Is this aimed at me?
'aimed"? :?
Nevermind then.
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shanky
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by shanky »

grievous wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:27 pm
shanky wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:24 pm
grievous wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:14 pm Oh come on, The Waratah Shield is the shadow of itself.
The number of high schools that once played rugby have been slashed in numbers.
Is this aimed at me?
'aimed"? :?
Nevermind then.
Apologies. I’ve obviously missed the reference or something.

However you are correct, the Waratah Shield is basically dead now
I believe Zakar’s comment was more about the fact that, despite this, the public system still produces the odd gem.
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Zakar
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Re: Joseph Suaalii - next big thing in Australia

Post by Zakar »

Well, it's really the club system that is producing them, they just happen to go to public school. Other than the sports high schools anyway.
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