Melbourne. Fvcked again. And again. And again.

[Bindi]

OK

I might be talking shit. Just what I have read. If Bindi disagrees then I have got it wrong.

It's a little more complicated. There's 2 kinds of mutations that happen for whatever reason - those that affect fitness and those that don't.

Even for very compact genomes like viruses have, it's easy enough to change a nucleotide here and there with no effect. This is due to how RNA is translated to protein. It takes 3 nucleotides (the RNA letters) to code for one amino acid. A chain of amino acids is a protein. There's a lot of redundancy in the 3rd RNA letter, so if it changes, you still likely get the same amino acid and therefore the same protein. When you read about how the origin of coronavirus isolates can be tracked, it's generally due to these kinds of mutations, which are happy to propagate as they aren't good or bad. This is how they could tell most of the isolates in the US had a European origin. It's probably how they'll work out where the new NZ outbreak originates from.

Mutations that affect fitness aren't evenly distributed across the genome. In coranaviruses generally (most don't infect humans), the biggest gene which helps it replicate barely changes - it already performs its job extremely well. The gene that changes the most is the spike protein. This is the one most vaccines are targeting and it's the one that allows it latch on to new cells and new organisms. Huge impact on fitness if the virus gains a new host.

As far as the coronavirus becoming less lethal, it's not necessarily the case. It spreads quite happily before symptoms show and it doesn't kill most people who get it, so being less lethal wouldn't have huge impact in a short time-frame (whereas the original SARS didn't have these advantages and died out on its own). There also has to be a functional way to get to whatever increases fitness. A mutation that makes it less lethal but less able to replicate is not helpful. Changes in the spike protein are a concern though - could stop vaccines working.

Anyway, all this stuff makes viruses interesting to study.

[shanky]

Cool

So please tell us about ebola. A deadly virus that seems to be contained? Reasons


Also, should I take creatine, or amino acids?

[Sensible Stephen]

OK

I might be talking shit. Just what I have read. If Bindi disagrees then I have got it wrong.

It's a little more complicated. There's 2 kinds of mutations that happen for whatever reason - those that affect fitness and those that don't.

Even for very compact genomes like viruses have, it's easy enough to change a nucleotide here and there with no effect. This is due to how RNA is translated to protein. It takes 3 nucleotides (the RNA letters) to code for one amino acid. A chain of amino acids is a protein. There's a lot of redundancy in the 3rd RNA letter, so if it changes, you still likely get the same amino acid and therefore the same protein. When you read about how the origin of coronavirus isolates can be tracked, it's generally due to these kinds of mutations, which are happy to propagate as they aren't good or bad. This is how they could tell most of the isolates in the US had a European origin. It's probably how they'll work out where the new NZ outbreak originates from.

Mutations that affect fitness aren't evenly distributed across the genome. In coranaviruses generally (most don't infect humans), the biggest gene which helps it replicate barely changes - it already performs its job extremely well. The gene that changes the most is the spike protein. This is the one most vaccines are targeting and it's the one that allows it latch on to new cells and new organisms. Huge impact on fitness if the virus gains a new host.

As far as the coronavirus becoming less lethal, it's not necessarily the case. It spreads quite happily before symptoms show and it doesn't kill most people who get it, so being less lethal wouldn't have huge impact in a short time-frame (whereas the original SARS didn't have these advantages and died out on its own). There also has to be a functional way to get to whatever increases fitness. A mutation that makes it less lethal but less able to replicate is not helpful. Changes in the spike protein are a concern though - could stop vaccines working.

Anyway, all this stuff makes viruses interesting to study.

Thanks, very interesting.

As a lay person, I was thinking if a random mutation resulted in a more deadly strain, it wouldn't matter to the virus, as 2 weeks is enough for it to do it's thing.

Also, if you get it, it does you over quite badly, then 3 months later you get the same strain again... Surely even with the same strain, your body might still be a bit buggered from the first infection, and it could end up finishing you off.

[Bindi]

Cool

So please tell us about ebola. A deadly virus that seems to be contained? Reasons


Also, should I take creatine, or amino acids?

No idea really. Guessing it's not particularly fatal to some of its hosts, so happily survives in wild animal populations.

Also, you should consume whatever gives you personal satisfaction. For me that is beer and prosciutto.

[shanky]

Thanks

From what I remember, something to do with ebola manifesting immediately which means people are quickly isoalted or die, which places a natural barrier to widespread transmission
Could all be bollix though, just what I read

[Bindi]

OK

I might be talking shit. Just what I have read. If Bindi disagrees then I have got it wrong.

It's a little more complicated. There's 2 kinds of mutations that happen for whatever reason - those that affect fitness and those that don't.

Even for very compact genomes like viruses have, it's easy enough to change a nucleotide here and there with no effect. This is due to how RNA is translated to protein. It takes 3 nucleotides (the RNA letters) to code for one amino acid. A chain of amino acids is a protein. There's a lot of redundancy in the 3rd RNA letter, so if it changes, you still likely get the same amino acid and therefore the same protein. When you read about how the origin of coronavirus isolates can be tracked, it's generally due to these kinds of mutations, which are happy to propagate as they aren't good or bad. This is how they could tell most of the isolates in the US had a European origin. It's probably how they'll work out where the new NZ outbreak originates from.

Mutations that affect fitness aren't evenly distributed across the genome. In coranaviruses generally (most don't infect humans), the biggest gene which helps it replicate barely changes - it already performs its job extremely well. The gene that changes the most is the spike protein. This is the one most vaccines are targeting and it's the one that allows it latch on to new cells and new organisms. Huge impact on fitness if the virus gains a new host.

As far as the coronavirus becoming less lethal, it's not necessarily the case. It spreads quite happily before symptoms show and it doesn't kill most people who get it, so being less lethal wouldn't have huge impact in a short time-frame (whereas the original SARS didn't have these advantages and died out on its own). There also has to be a functional way to get to whatever increases fitness. A mutation that makes it less lethal but less able to replicate is not helpful. Changes in the spike protein are a concern though - could stop vaccines working.

Anyway, all this stuff makes viruses interesting to study.

Thanks, very interesting.

As a lay person, I was thinking if a random mutation resulted in a more deadly strain, it wouldn't matter to the virus, as 2 weeks is enough for it to do it's thing.

Also, if you get it, it does you over quite badly, then 3 months later you get the same strain again... Surely even with the same strain, your body might still be a bit buggered from the first infection, and it could end up finishing you off.

The first time you get it, you have no antibodies against it. Once you've had it, you do, so would likely fight it off if you're not too f**ked. How long the window of protection lasts is unknown at the moment.

[Sensible Stephen]

The first time you get it, you have no antibodies against it. Once you've had it, you do, so would likely fight it off if you're not too f**ked. How long the window of protection lasts is unknown at the moment.

Yep, but isn't there quite a lot of data stacking up now saying after a few months most antibodies have faded away? Well that's what the news.com.au headlines lead me to believe anyway.

[Blackrock Bullet]

Actually you can aim for herd immunity and have a policy that excludes the elderly from that to ensure minimal dead people.

Where has this been done successfully? Since you're boasting about such a policy I just thought it would be nice to know which country or jurisdiction you are talking up.

This is right up there with a request to show where there has been a successful Covid-19 vaccine program. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean the idea should be discounted or discussed.


Typical binary thinking. Either on or off. No ability to have a nuanced dialogue to explore ideas further. Simply try and shut it down.


And by the way, I don't think he is boasting.

So using this rationale why don't we chat about successfully eradicating covid-19 without having any impact on the economy? Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean the idea should be discounted or discussed. Let's chat about full eradication without having any impact on jobs or the economy.

Ali, what should we do if the vaccine doesn't work? Eventually a hard chat will have to happen.

Full eradication based on interventions is more of a pipedream than shielding at risk people.

[eldanielfire]

Actually you can aim for herd immunity and have a policy that excludes the elderly from that to ensure minimal dead people.

Where has this been done successfully? Since you're boasting about such a policy I just thought it would be nice to know which country or jurisdiction you are talking up.

I'm not boasting about the policy nor advocating for it. However had most countries made the mistakes with not protecting or screening care homes of COVID-19 then most death rates would be considerably less regardless of what method they pursued.

[eldanielfire]

I’ll defer to superior knowledge.

My understanding is that a virus that kills its host before the host can pass it on, isn’t a very successful virus - so therefore, those strains get selected out and the more moderate ones survive. As that process continues, and the host takes preventative or curative measures, then more of the innocuous variants tend to get the upper hand.

This is all logical, but how many air borne viruses do we deal with kill hosts so quickly they won't pass it on in countries where much of the populations are urban and interact? The virus would almost certainly not evolve to close to that state given the environmental selection pressures we have. It's likely to stay in a "might kill fair slowly" bunch of variants as much as it might move to a non-lethal state.

[eldanielfire]

Actually you can aim for herd immunity and have a policy that excludes the elderly from that to ensure minimal dead people.

Where has this been done successfully? Since you're boasting about such a policy I just thought it would be nice to know which country or jurisdiction you are talking up.

This is right up there with a request to show where there has been a successful Covid-19 vaccine program. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean the idea should be discounted or discussed.


Typical binary thinking. Either on or off. No ability to have a nuanced dialogue to explore ideas further. Simply try and shut it down.


And by the way, I don't think he is boasting.

You sound like a Youtube/Facebook free speech, sovereign citizen, conspiracy theory etc nut with sentences like these.

For someone who claims never to watch or read these people, you bring them up a lot

[towny]

The first time you get it, you have no antibodies against it. Once you've had it, you do, so would likely fight it off if you're not too f**ked. How long the window of protection lasts is unknown at the moment.

Yep, but isn't there quite a lot of data stacking up now saying after a few months most antibodies have faded away? Well that's what the news.com.au headlines lead me to believe anyway.

If that’s the case, that herd immunity isn’t possible, than what is the point of vaccination?

[Norman Harvey]

The first time you get it, you have no antibodies against it. Once you've had it, you do, so would likely fight it off if you're not too f**ked. How long the window of protection lasts is unknown at the moment.

Yep, but isn't there quite a lot of data stacking up now saying after a few months most antibodies have faded away? Well that's what the news.com.au headlines lead me to believe anyway.

If that’s the case, that herd immunity isn’t possible, than what is the point of vaccination?

Herd immunity is achieved by vaccinating enough people to prevent by the spread of a virus. As with the flu it may be that we will need to be vaccinated yearly to achieve that. However as with the flu people probably will not bother and only the most vulnerable will get vaccinated.

[Flockwitt]

The first time you get it, you have no antibodies against it. Once you've had it, you do, so would likely fight it off if you're not too f**ked. How long the window of protection lasts is unknown at the moment.

Yep, but isn't there quite a lot of data stacking up now saying after a few months most antibodies have faded away? Well that's what the news.com.au headlines lead me to believe anyway.

If that’s the case, that herd immunity isn’t possible, than what is the point of vaccination?

Herd immunity is achieved by vaccinating enough people to prevent by the spread of a virus. As with the flu it may be that we will need to be vaccinated yearly to achieve that. However as with the flu people probably will not bother and only the most vulnerable will get vaccinated.

Doubt it. Not until they know why it fvcks up some people and not others and can test for it.

[Bindi]

The first time you get it, you have no antibodies against it. Once you've had it, you do, so would likely fight it off if you're not too f**ked. How long the window of protection lasts is unknown at the moment.

Yep, but isn't there quite a lot of data stacking up now saying after a few months most antibodies have faded away? Well that's what the news.com.au headlines lead me to believe anyway.

If that’s the case, that herd immunity isn’t possible, than what is the point of vaccination?

Vaccination gives a stronger antibody response (in the better ones so far) than getting the disease + antibodies are only part of the story. There’s also T-cells. No one knows how long immunity lasts for yet, but signs are good.

https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S009 ... 20)31008-4

https://assets.researchsquare.com/files ... tamped.pdf

Maybe avoid news.com.au headlines.

[Norman Harvey]

The first time you get it, you have no antibodies against it. Once you've had it, you do, so would likely fight it off if you're not too f**ked. How long the window of protection lasts is unknown at the moment.

Yep, but isn't there quite a lot of data stacking up now saying after a few months most antibodies have faded away? Well that's what the news.com.au headlines lead me to believe anyway.

If that’s the case, that herd immunity isn’t possible, than what is the point of vaccination?

Herd immunity is achieved by vaccinating enough people to prevent by the spread of a virus. As with the flu it may be that we will need to be vaccinated yearly to achieve that. However as with the flu people probably will not bother and only the most vulnerable will get vaccinated.

Doubt it. Not until they know why it fvcks up some people and not others and can test for it.

Very few people get serious symptoms and we can already see the young are in the main not at all worried about catching this virus. Give it a few years without the daily updates of Covid-19 deaths (we don't get them for flu) and complacency will set in.

[grievous]

Where is Muttonbong?

[Bayern]

Where is Muttonbong?

Busy lad, meetings with those overseas investors looking to dump trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions of (real) dollars into the economy now that NZ has shown the world how to eradicate Coronavirus.. Fcuk me that clown is bizarre, I mean surely he's aware that the Chinese picked the carcass down to the bones years ago, exactly who would invest what, where? Even the fish have been sold decades down the road...

[Slim 293]

And it turns out Melbourne’s patient zero was not a security guard, but a night duty manager at Rydges...

303 new cases today, and only 4 deaths.

[Norman Harvey]

And it turns out Melbourne’s patient zero was not a security guard, but a night duty manager at Rydges...

303 new cases today, and only 4 deaths.

Hopefully there will be fewer deaths now we have therapeutic s and improved best practice.

[UncleFB]

Actually you can aim for herd immunity and have a policy that excludes the elderly from that to ensure minimal dead people.

Where has this been done successfully? Since you're boasting about such a policy I just thought it would be nice to know which country or jurisdiction you are talking up.

This is right up there with a request to show where there has been a successful Covid-19 vaccine program. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean the idea should be discounted or discussed.


Typical binary thinking. Either on or off. No ability to have a nuanced dialogue to explore ideas further. Simply try and shut it down.


And by the way, I don't think he is boasting.

You sound like a Youtube/Facebook free speech, sovereign citizen, conspiracy theory etc nut with sentences like these.

For someone who claims never to watch or read these people, you bring them up a lot

I like to keep up with what's going on with the loons - I need to keep up with what I need to complain about.

At any rate, I was genuinely wanting to know your thoughts on how a herd immunity strategy that protects the vulnerable would work in practice?

[6.Jones]

The first time you get it, you have no antibodies against it. Once you've had it, you do, so would likely fight it off if you're not too f**ked. How long the window of protection lasts is unknown at the moment.

Yep, but isn't there quite a lot of data stacking up now saying after a few months most antibodies have faded away? Well that's what the news.com.au headlines lead me to believe anyway.

If that’s the case, that herd immunity isn’t possible, than what is the point of vaccination?

Like flu, annual vaccinations?

[towny]

The first time you get it, you have no antibodies against it. Once you've had it, you do, so would likely fight it off if you're not too f**ked. How long the window of protection lasts is unknown at the moment.

Yep, but isn't there quite a lot of data stacking up now saying after a few months most antibodies have faded away? Well that's what the news.com.au headlines lead me to believe anyway.

If that’s the case, that herd immunity isn’t possible, than what is the point of vaccination?

Vaccination gives a stronger antibody response (in the better ones so far) than getting the disease + antibodies are only part of the story. There’s also T-cells. No one knows how long immunity lasts for yet, but signs are good.

https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S009 ... 20)31008-4

https://assets.researchsquare.com/files ... tamped.pdf

Maybe avoid news.com.au headlines.

Whoah! You’re telling me that herd immunity can’t happen because the virus mutates. But vaccination will somehow work. This seems illogical. I’m no expert and don’t want to be right about this.

[towny]

The first time you get it, you have no antibodies against it. Once you've had it, you do, so would likely fight it off if you're not too f**ked. How long the window of protection lasts is unknown at the moment.

Yep, but isn't there quite a lot of data stacking up now saying after a few months most antibodies have faded away? Well that's what the news.com.au headlines lead me to believe anyway.

If that’s the case, that herd immunity isn’t possible, than what is the point of vaccination?

Like flu, annual vaccinations?

So we can’t eradicate it?

[jdogscoop]

As has long been suspected by those who kept themselves properly informed on developments, the second wave in Melbourne can be attributed virtually in its entirety to the hotel quarantine fiasco.

More than 90 per cent of COVID-19 cases in Victoria's deadly second wave have been traced to a family who arrived back from overseas in May and were quarantined at Melbourne's Rydges on Swanston hotel.

Dr Charles Alpren, an epidemiologist at the Department of Health and Human Services, told the inquiry into the state's hotel quarantine program on Tuesday that the rest of the cases could be traced back to three more travellers who were quarantined at the Stamford Plaza the following month.

...Monday's hearings heard that returned travellers, quarantined the Rydges on Swanston and Stamford Plaza, were the source of more than 99 per cent of the state's current COVID-19 cases.

The Age today: https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 55mqe.html

[Farva]

Reading that too, there seemed to be little that actually went wrong. It was purely bad luck and an extremely infectious disease.
This wasnt a case of a guard shagging an infected resident (not saying that this didnt happen, just that it isnt responsible for the outbreak).
Apparently they were allowed out once but were escorted with a nurse in attendance too. And then there was a contamination issue but it was jumped on.
Its really just bad luck that it got out into the community.

[Norman Harvey]

Reading that too, there seemed to be little that actually went wrong. It was purely bad luck and an extremely infectious disease.
This wasnt a case of a guard shagging an infected resident (not saying that this didnt happen, just that it isnt responsible for the outbreak).
Apparently they were allowed out once but were escorted with a nurse in attendance too. And then there was a contamination issue but it was jumped on.
Its really just bad luck that it got out into the community.

Bad luck

[Pat the Ex Mat]

Reading that too, there seemed to be little that actually went wrong. It was purely bad luck and an extremely infectious disease.
This wasnt a case of a guard shagging an infected resident (not saying that this didnt happen, just that it isnt responsible for the outbreak).
Apparently they were allowed out once but were escorted with a nurse in attendance too. And then there was a contamination issue but it was jumped on.
Its really just bad luck that it got out into the community.

Exactly - there is a reason Typhoid Mary is famous.

Epidemics are extremely hard to stamp out

[Norman Harvey]

Reading that too, there seemed to be little that actually went wrong. It was purely bad luck and an extremely infectious disease.
This wasnt a case of a guard shagging an infected resident (not saying that this didnt happen, just that it isnt responsible for the outbreak).
Apparently they were allowed out once but were escorted with a nurse in attendance too. And then there was a contamination issue but it was jumped on.
Its really just bad luck that it got out into the community.

Exactly - there is a reason Typhoid Mary is famous.

Epidemics are extremely hard to stamp out

You're not really trying very hard if you take people for walkies. It's only 14 days FFS

In Victoria, just two months after quarantine began, in late May, the first infection of a security guard was made public. The guard had worked at Rydges on Swanston in Carlton. Now at least 19 guards and their contacts are infected from that outbreak. Even larger issues emerged from another quarantine hotel, the Stamford Plaza in Melbourne’s CBD, where an outbreak via security guards had by Friday grown to at least 35 people.

The ramifications are now being felt across the working-class and ethnically diverse northern and western suburbs of Melbourne, where more than 300,000 people have now been locked down for a second time to try to prevent the spread.

The government confirmed this week that genomic sequencing – a form of testing that outlines which specific variety of the virus is spreading in which clusters – shows that much of the latest outbreak has emerged from those original cases in hotel quarantine.

While further outbreaks of the virus in Australia were always likely, the high level of community transmission in Melbourne’s suburbs is enough to have the Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton declaring himself “nervous” for what's next.

'Three minutes’ training'
Until now Australia and Victoria’s response has been an overwhelming public health success with far fewer deaths per capita than nearly every comparable country. And despite the recent outbreak, the virus in Victoria is still not out of control.

But the northern suburbs lockdown has led to tough questions of both the government and the security industry it relied upon.

A key issue, according to industry insiders, was training. Guards were being expected to work with difficult, potentially infectious people, to use personal protective equipment and have a working knowledge of infection control techniques.

But for some, according to Kazim Shah, a United Workers Union organiser who has worked with Melbourne quarantine hotel guards in recent months, the preparation was severely inadequate.

“Some guards are saying they had no training," Shah said. “Some were saying they had three minutes’ training.”

One trainer had a background in managing security for car parks, Shah said. Until recently security guards had been working at multiple quarantine hotels, adding to infection spread risks.

Details have since emerged of the lax hygiene standards in some Melbourne quarantine hotels and significant breaches of quarantine. Premier Andrews has drawn attention to guards sharing a cigarette lighter, and having "carpooling arrangements".

More lurid rumours have also emerged, but a common story is that there was too little personal protective equipment or it was being worn wrongly or for too long; there was a lack of medical waste bins and that there was insufficient medical oversight.

So bad were the practices in some places that one returned traveller from New Zealand who stayed at a Crown hotel, said he felt more at risk in quarantine than going home.

"I noticed a lot of guards, they'd hug each other or give each other a pat on the shoulder,” returned traveller Patrick Enright told The Age.

“They were definitely in their personal space. One guard escorted me outside with the mask over his mouth but not his nose."

https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 558og.html

[jdogscoop]

Norman Harvey has elected to showcase a news report from 3 July.

Hot off the press.

[Farva]

Reading that too, there seemed to be little that actually went wrong. It was purely bad luck and an extremely infectious disease.
This wasnt a case of a guard shagging an infected resident (not saying that this didnt happen, just that it isnt responsible for the outbreak).
Apparently they were allowed out once but were escorted with a nurse in attendance too. And then there was a contamination issue but it was jumped on.
Its really just bad luck that it got out into the community.

Bad luck

Yes. Bad luck.
My wife tested positive on Sunday. She has left the house once in the last month and that was to go to the chemist. Regardless she now has Covid.
I tested negative yesterday. Ive been going to the supermarket a couple of times a week, etc, and dont have it.
You can do everything right and still get it.

[Pat the Ex Mat]

Sorry to hear that Farva

[CrazyIslander]

Sorry to hear Farva. But you're enjoying exactly right and we shouldn't be quick to judge people because it's just extremely infectious. As I've said, the backlash against the security guards was over the top and unjustified, and it was negligent on the part of those involved to let it go viral like it did. Rydges, Govt, health department should've stepped in and dispel the rumours and protect the reputation of the guards. Instead they ley them to be the scapegoat.

[shanky]

Reading that too, there seemed to be little that actually went wrong. It was purely bad luck and an extremely infectious disease.
This wasnt a case of a guard shagging an infected resident (not saying that this didnt happen, just that it isnt responsible for the outbreak).
Apparently they were allowed out once but were escorted with a nurse in attendance too. And then there was a contamination issue but it was jumped on.
Its really just bad luck that it got out into the community.

Bad luck

Yes. Bad luck.
My wife tested positive on Sunday. She has left the house once in the last month and that was to go to the chemist. Regardless she now has Covid.
I tested negative yesterday. Ive been going to the supermarket a couple of times a week, etc, and dont have it.
You can do everything right and still get it.

The Kontiki Chemist?

[Farva]

Reading that too, there seemed to be little that actually went wrong. It was purely bad luck and an extremely infectious disease.
This wasnt a case of a guard shagging an infected resident (not saying that this didnt happen, just that it isnt responsible for the outbreak).
Apparently they were allowed out once but were escorted with a nurse in attendance too. And then there was a contamination issue but it was jumped on.
Its really just bad luck that it got out into the community.

Bad luck

Yes. Bad luck.
My wife tested positive on Sunday. She has left the house once in the last month and that was to go to the chemist. Regardless she now has Covid.
I tested negative yesterday. Ive been going to the supermarket a couple of times a week, etc, and dont have it.
You can do everything right and still get it.

The Kontiki Chemist?

EF lives at least 30km away from me.

[shanky]

Have you been around to inspect the back doors?

[Norman Harvey]

Reading that too, there seemed to be little that actually went wrong. It was purely bad luck and an extremely infectious disease.
This wasnt a case of a guard shagging an infected resident (not saying that this didnt happen, just that it isnt responsible for the outbreak).
Apparently they were allowed out once but were escorted with a nurse in attendance too. And then there was a contamination issue but it was jumped on.
Its really just bad luck that it got out into the community.

Bad luck

Yes. Bad luck.
My wife tested positive on Sunday. She has left the house once in the last month and that was to go to the chemist. Regardless she now has Covid.
I tested negative yesterday. Ive been going to the supermarket a couple of times a week, etc, and dont have it.
You can do everything right and still get it.

You can't do everything properly and still get it. That's nonsensical. The biosecurity regimin of you and your spouse is on whatever level you see fit.. It's different when it comes to that of national or state government when it comes to a virus you yourself describe as an extremely infectious disease. The stakes are massive.

That news report from the 3rd of July coupled with the fact they were taking people for walks show they were not taking it as seriously as they should have been.

[bimboman]

Reading that too, there seemed to be little that actually went wrong. It was purely bad luck and an extremely infectious disease.
This wasnt a case of a guard shagging an infected resident (not saying that this didnt happen, just that it isnt responsible for the outbreak).
Apparently they were allowed out once but were escorted with a nurse in attendance too. And then there was a contamination issue but it was jumped on.
Its really just bad luck that it got out into the community.

Bad luck

Yes. Bad luck.
My wife tested positive on Sunday. She has left the house once in the last month and that was to go to the chemist. Regardless she now has Covid.
I tested negative yesterday. Ive been going to the supermarket a couple of times a week, etc, and dont have it.
You can do everything right and still get it.

You may of course have had it and been one of the majority asymptomatic.

[Cullen]

Wish your wife a speedy and full recovery Farva.

Hope everyone in Melbourne is holding up ok. I’ve got a mate who was in the process of relocating to Queensland prior to lockdown. He’s now at the point where he’s just going to bite the bullet and do the quarantine with his family. Told me by the end of September he should be back to some sort of normal.

Victoria won’t be anywhere near normal for a it t least 6 months

[Clogs]

Wow sorry to hear that news Farva. I am confident all will be fine. Unfortunately for you, you will now be in a 2 week drought...


www.pornhub.net
www.spankit.com
www.goatsonly.com


You're welcome.