Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Ali's Choice
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Ali's Choice »

jambanja wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:56 am Are you comfortable with the fact that China, that wonderful place with its awesome human rights record etc, is your biggest trading partner, or does trade supersede morals?
Very comfortable.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Blackrock Bullet wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:07 pm Well Covid has now gone through a fair chunk of the Israeli population at this stage with a large uncontrolled outbreak and the death rate remains low. Why?
With all the therapeutic treatments that have been developed the death rates should be falling in countries where they are available. The same thing has been happening in the UK for months.

JUL 7, 2020
SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus. Below are 13 potential Israeli treatments using a variety of approaches – such as Ivermectin, placenta-derived cells, peptides, blood plasma of recovered patients, and the cannabis compound CBD.

Israeli hospitals were among the first anywhere to use dexamethasone, a steroid drug, to stop cytokines storms and reduce lung inflammation in severely ill COVID-19 patients. However, steroids can suppress the immune response too strongly. Additionally, an Israeli hospital is among the first to do a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial of ivermectin, a drug to treat parasitic infections in people and animals, to see if it can shorten the duration of the disease if given to Covid-19 patients immediately after diagnosis. Israelis are also formulating novel therapeutics of their own.
https://www.trialsitenews.com/13-promis ... vermectin/
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:06 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:07 pm Well Covid has now gone through a fair chunk of the Israeli population at this stage with a large uncontrolled outbreak and the death rate remains low. Why?
With all the therapeutic treatments that have been developed the death rates should be falling in countries where they are available. The same thing has been happening in the UK for months.

JUL 7, 2020
SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus. Below are 13 potential Israeli treatments using a variety of approaches – such as Ivermectin, placenta-derived cells, peptides, blood plasma of recovered patients, and the cannabis compound CBD.

Israeli hospitals were among the first anywhere to use dexamethasone, a steroid drug, to stop cytokines storms and reduce lung inflammation in severely ill COVID-19 patients. However, steroids can suppress the immune response too strongly. Additionally, an Israeli hospital is among the first to do a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial of ivermectin, a drug to treat parasitic infections in people and animals, to see if it can shorten the duration of the disease if given to Covid-19 patients immediately after diagnosis. Israelis are also formulating novel therapeutics of their own.
https://www.trialsitenews.com/13-promis ... vermectin/
It hasn’t happened everywhere. Deaths have increased in some places after case inflation, they haven’t elsewhere.

Take Illinois for example, cases up but deaths level.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Enzedder »

jambanja wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:56 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:26 am
Bindi wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:24 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:17 am What does the Federal govt actually do these days except viciously troll ALP state Premiers and oversee mass-deaths in aged care homes that they regulate?
Cause the biggest recession since the Great Depression?
Start a trade war with our biggest trading partner for no apparent reason?
Are you comfortable with the fact that China, that wonderful place with its awesome human rights record etc, is your biggest trading partner, or does trade supersede morals?
They are our biggest trade partner as well ($32 billion two-way trade last year)
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Blackrock Bullet wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:09 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:06 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:07 pm Well Covid has now gone through a fair chunk of the Israeli population at this stage with a large uncontrolled outbreak and the death rate remains low. Why?
With all the therapeutic treatments that have been developed the death rates should be falling in countries where they are available. The same thing has been happening in the UK for months.

JUL 7, 2020
SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus. Below are 13 potential Israeli treatments using a variety of approaches – such as Ivermectin, placenta-derived cells, peptides, blood plasma of recovered patients, and the cannabis compound CBD.

Israeli hospitals were among the first anywhere to use dexamethasone, a steroid drug, to stop cytokines storms and reduce lung inflammation in severely ill COVID-19 patients. However, steroids can suppress the immune response too strongly. Additionally, an Israeli hospital is among the first to do a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial of ivermectin, a drug to treat parasitic infections in people and animals, to see if it can shorten the duration of the disease if given to Covid-19 patients immediately after diagnosis. Israelis are also formulating novel therapeutics of their own.
https://www.trialsitenews.com/13-promis ... vermectin/
It hasn’t happened everywhere. Deaths have increased in some places after case inflation, they haven’t elsewhere.

Take Illinois for example, cases up but deaths level.
i think the mortality rate in the country that is America has dropped by about a third overall but you are right it's not going down everywhere
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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jambanja wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:56 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:26 am
Bindi wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:24 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:17 am What does the Federal govt actually do these days except viciously troll ALP state Premiers and oversee mass-deaths in aged care homes that they regulate?
Cause the biggest recession since the Great Depression?
Start a trade war with our biggest trading partner for no apparent reason?
Are you comfortable with the fact that China, that wonderful place with its awesome human rights record etc, is your biggest trading partner, or does trade supersede morals?
What are the countries that refuse to trade with Chin ?
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Blackrock Bullet wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:09 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:06 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:07 pm Well Covid has now gone through a fair chunk of the Israeli population at this stage with a large uncontrolled outbreak and the death rate remains low. Why?
With all the therapeutic treatments that have been developed the death rates should be falling in countries where they are available. The same thing has been happening in the UK for months.

JUL 7, 2020
SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus. Below are 13 potential Israeli treatments using a variety of approaches – such as Ivermectin, placenta-derived cells, peptides, blood plasma of recovered patients, and the cannabis compound CBD.

Israeli hospitals were among the first anywhere to use dexamethasone, a steroid drug, to stop cytokines storms and reduce lung inflammation in severely ill COVID-19 patients. However, steroids can suppress the immune response too strongly. Additionally, an Israeli hospital is among the first to do a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial of ivermectin, a drug to treat parasitic infections in people and animals, to see if it can shorten the duration of the disease if given to Covid-19 patients immediately after diagnosis. Israelis are also formulating novel therapeutics of their own.
https://www.trialsitenews.com/13-promis ... vermectin/
It hasn’t happened everywhere. Deaths have increased in some places after case inflation, they haven’t elsewhere.

Take Illinois for example, cases up but deaths level.

Something strange is happening in France and Spain too. Looks like the second wave in Europe is beginning to kick off in earnest. Will be fascinating to see what happens in Sweden.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Clogs wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:12 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:09 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:06 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:07 pm Well Covid has now gone through a fair chunk of the Israeli population at this stage with a large uncontrolled outbreak and the death rate remains low. Why?
With all the therapeutic treatments that have been developed the death rates should be falling in countries where they are available. The same thing has been happening in the UK for months.

JUL 7, 2020
SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus. Below are 13 potential Israeli treatments using a variety of approaches – such as Ivermectin, placenta-derived cells, peptides, blood plasma of recovered patients, and the cannabis compound CBD.

Israeli hospitals were among the first anywhere to use dexamethasone, a steroid drug, to stop cytokines storms and reduce lung inflammation in severely ill COVID-19 patients. However, steroids can suppress the immune response too strongly. Additionally, an Israeli hospital is among the first to do a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial of ivermectin, a drug to treat parasitic infections in people and animals, to see if it can shorten the duration of the disease if given to Covid-19 patients immediately after diagnosis. Israelis are also formulating novel therapeutics of their own.
https://www.trialsitenews.com/13-promis ... vermectin/
It hasn’t happened everywhere. Deaths have increased in some places after case inflation, they haven’t elsewhere.

Take Illinois for example, cases up but deaths level.

Something strange is happening in France and Spain too. Looks like the second wave in Europe is beginning to kick off in earnest. Will be fascinating to see what happens in Sweden.
Just remember to compare Sweden to the other nordic countries. The good thing is lockdown gave us the chance to keep many people alive while we developed therapeutic treatments and vaccines while not overrunning hospitals
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:19 am
Clogs wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:12 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:09 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:06 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:07 pm Well Covid has now gone through a fair chunk of the Israeli population at this stage with a large uncontrolled outbreak and the death rate remains low. Why?
With all the therapeutic treatments that have been developed the death rates should be falling in countries where they are available. The same thing has been happening in the UK for months.

JUL 7, 2020
SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus. Below are 13 potential Israeli treatments using a variety of approaches – such as Ivermectin, placenta-derived cells, peptides, blood plasma of recovered patients, and the cannabis compound CBD.

Israeli hospitals were among the first anywhere to use dexamethasone, a steroid drug, to stop cytokines storms and reduce lung inflammation in severely ill COVID-19 patients. However, steroids can suppress the immune response too strongly. Additionally, an Israeli hospital is among the first to do a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial of ivermectin, a drug to treat parasitic infections in people and animals, to see if it can shorten the duration of the disease if given to Covid-19 patients immediately after diagnosis. Israelis are also formulating novel therapeutics of their own.
https://www.trialsitenews.com/13-promis ... vermectin/
It hasn’t happened everywhere. Deaths have increased in some places after case inflation, they haven’t elsewhere.

Take Illinois for example, cases up but deaths level.

Something strange is happening in France and Spain too. Looks like the second wave in Europe is beginning to kick off in earnest. Will be fascinating to see what happens in Sweden.
Just remember to compare Sweden to the other nordic countries. The good thing is lockdown gave us the chance to keep many people alive while we developed therapeutic treatments and vaccines while not overrunning hospitals
Sweden is now recording fewer positive cases than Norway and Denmark, who I feel are probably only 2 weeks away from another hard lockdown as a result of their impending second wave. I suspect Sweden will also suffer from some sort of second wave, it just may not be as pronounced as Denmark and Norway.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Sweden has less than half of Australia's population but nearly 10 times more deaths - over 5000. Per capita it's on par with US.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Clogs wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:31 am Sweden is now recording fewer positive cases than Norway and Denmark, who I feel are probably only 2 weeks away from another hard lockdown as a result of their impending second wave. I suspect Sweden will also suffer from some sort of second wave, it just may not be as pronounced as Denmark and Norway.
The latest figures i could get for Sweden on worldometer were for the 3rd of September. So i'm posting for the 2nd and the 3rd. All three countries are out of lockdown yet there is no evidence from this that the Swedes now have greater immunity in exchange for killing so many of their people earlier in the year.

Sweden 213 207
Denmark 111 179
Norway 163 86
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Denmark Pop. 5.8m 5k Active cases Death:627
Norway Pop. 5.443m 2k Active cases Death: 264
Sweden Pop. 10.23m 56k active cases Death:5835

Too late for Sweden to lockdown. What a disaster.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:19 am
Clogs wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:12 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:09 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:06 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:07 pm Well Covid has now gone through a fair chunk of the Israeli population at this stage with a large uncontrolled outbreak and the death rate remains low. Why?
With all the therapeutic treatments that have been developed the death rates should be falling in countries where they are available. The same thing has been happening in the UK for months.

JUL 7, 2020
SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus. Below are 13 potential Israeli treatments using a variety of approaches – such as Ivermectin, placenta-derived cells, peptides, blood plasma of recovered patients, and the cannabis compound CBD.

Israeli hospitals were among the first anywhere to use dexamethasone, a steroid drug, to stop cytokines storms and reduce lung inflammation in severely ill COVID-19 patients. However, steroids can suppress the immune response too strongly. Additionally, an Israeli hospital is among the first to do a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial of ivermectin, a drug to treat parasitic infections in people and animals, to see if it can shorten the duration of the disease if given to Covid-19 patients immediately after diagnosis. Israelis are also formulating novel therapeutics of their own.
https://www.trialsitenews.com/13-promis ... vermectin/
It hasn’t happened everywhere. Deaths have increased in some places after case inflation, they haven’t elsewhere.

Take Illinois for example, cases up but deaths level.

Something strange is happening in France and Spain too. Looks like the second wave in Europe is beginning to kick off in earnest. Will be fascinating to see what happens in Sweden.
Just remember to compare Sweden to the other nordic countries. The good thing is lockdown gave us the chance to keep many people alive while we developed therapeutic treatments and vaccines while not overrunning hospitals
Why would you compare to only a few countries?

Europe is a wide continent.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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CrazyIslander wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:48 am Sweden has less than half of Australia's population but nearly 10 times more deaths - over 5000. Per capita it's on par with US.
And so are many other countries that locked down.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:20 am
Clogs wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:31 am Sweden is now recording fewer positive cases than Norway and Denmark, who I feel are probably only 2 weeks away from another hard lockdown as a result of their impending second wave. I suspect Sweden will also suffer from some sort of second wave, it just may not be as pronounced as Denmark and Norway.
The latest figures i could get for Sweden on worldometer were for the 3rd of September. So i'm posting for the 2nd and the 3rd. All three countries are out of lockdown yet there is no evidence from this that the Swedes now have greater immunity in exchange for killing so many of their people earlier in the year.

Sweden 213 207
Denmark 111 179
Norway 163 86
I assume he is talking about their 14 day incidence.

I don't think Sweden report that regularly.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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CrazyIslander wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:58 am Denmark Pop. 5.8m 5k Active cases Death:627
Norway Pop. 5.443m 2k Active cases Death: 264
Sweden Pop. 10.23m 56k active cases Death:5835

Too late for Sweden to lockdown. What a disaster.
Clogs is saying that the current rate of infection in Sweden is less than Denmark and Norway. If it's true and the difference is significant then that might give some credence to the idea that Sweden did the right thing. However if you accept the worldometer figures for the last 10 days they have figures for Sweden the total is 1781 new cases. For Denmark it's 1077 and for Norway it's 774.

So even though all three countries are out of lockdown Sweden still according to worldometer has a significantly higher rate of infection than it's neighbours. That seems to be the complete opposite to what Clogs is claiming.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:17 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:20 am
Clogs wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:31 am Sweden is now recording fewer positive cases than Norway and Denmark, who I feel are probably only 2 weeks away from another hard lockdown as a result of their impending second wave. I suspect Sweden will also suffer from some sort of second wave, it just may not be as pronounced as Denmark and Norway.
The latest figures i could get for Sweden on worldometer were for the 3rd of September. So i'm posting for the 2nd and the 3rd. All three countries are out of lockdown yet there is no evidence from this that the Swedes now have greater immunity in exchange for killing so many of their people earlier in the year.

Sweden 213 207
Denmark 111 179
Norway 163 86
I assume he is talking about their 14 day incidence.

I don't think Sweden report that regularly.
Well I've just done the last 10 days Sweden have reported and the same 10 days for the other two. Sweden is such much higher than the others I'm not going to bother with the 14.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:16 am
CrazyIslander wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:48 am Sweden has less than half of Australia's population but nearly 10 times more deaths - over 5000. Per capita it's on par with US.
And so are many other countries that locked down.
I don't see the point in comparing Sweden to Australia or many other countries. Best to compare the nordic nations with each other.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:42 amI don't see the point in comparing Sweden to Australia or many other countries. Best to compare the nordic nations with each other.
Take it to another thread then, old cock. :)
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by MungoMan »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:42 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:16 am
CrazyIslander wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:48 am Sweden has less than half of Australia's population but nearly 10 times more deaths - over 5000. Per capita it's on par with US.
And so are many other countries that locked down.
I don't see the point in comparing Sweden to Australia or many other countries. Best to compare the nordic nations with each other.
Do you reckon the virus gives a rats’s arse whether countries were once ruled by the same royal families and suchlike? That’s the prime basis for grouping the ‘Nordic’ countries.

Put aside the matter of which north west Euro countries once shared kings etc, and what distinguishes the Nordic countries from other countries of a similar size in the same area?

If it’s OK compare Finland (5.5M) to Sweden (10.1M), then it’s equally valid to compare Sweden with Belgium (11.6M) and The Netherlands (17.M). They are all parliamentary democracies with a high standard of living located in the same part of the world.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:35 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:17 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:20 am
Clogs wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:31 am Sweden is now recording fewer positive cases than Norway and Denmark, who I feel are probably only 2 weeks away from another hard lockdown as a result of their impending second wave. I suspect Sweden will also suffer from some sort of second wave, it just may not be as pronounced as Denmark and Norway.
The latest figures i could get for Sweden on worldometer were for the 3rd of September. So i'm posting for the 2nd and the 3rd. All three countries are out of lockdown yet there is no evidence from this that the Swedes now have greater immunity in exchange for killing so many of their people earlier in the year.

Sweden 213 207
Denmark 111 179
Norway 163 86
I assume he is talking about their 14 day incidence.

I don't think Sweden report that regularly.
Well I've just done the last 10 days Sweden have reported and the same 10 days for the other two. Sweden is such much higher than the others I'm not going to bother with the 14.
Does that reflect population?

Also needs to reflect testing.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Anonymous 1 »

MungoMan wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:14 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:42 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:16 am
CrazyIslander wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:48 am Sweden has less than half of Australia's population but nearly 10 times more deaths - over 5000. Per capita it's on par with US.
And so are many other countries that locked down.
I don't see the point in comparing Sweden to Australia or many other countries. Best to compare the nordic nations with each other.
Do you reckon the virus gives a rats’s arse whether countries were once ruled by the same royal families and suchlike? That’s the prime basis for grouping the ‘Nordic’ countries.

Put aside the matter of which north west Euro countries once shared kings etc, and what distinguishes the Nordic countries from other countries of a similar size in the same area?

If it’s OK compare Finland (5.5M) to Sweden (10.1M), then it’s equally valid to compare Sweden with Belgium (11.6M) and The Netherlands (17.M). They are all parliamentary democracies with a high standard of living located in the same part of the world.
WTF
Coronavirus: why the Nordics are our best bet for comparing strategies

April 3rd

Daily updated graphs illustrating the rising COVID-19 death rates in different countries raise hopes that we can understand the impact of the virus and work out how to stop it from spreading further. But when comparing countries as different as South Korea, China, Italy and the UK, we may find the impression of how different interventions work is obscured by many other factors.

These countries differ in many important ways, including demographics, civil disobedience, population density, patterns of social interactions, air quality and genetics. Italy, for example, has regions with older populations than many other countries. And European societies are unlikely to ever accept the draconian interventions used in China and South Korea.

From a scientific perspective, and in the absence of better models, the Nordic countries of Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Finland – which are culturally, economically, politically and geographically similar – may, serendipitously, represent a powerful intervention trial.

Currently, 15 million people here have been assigned to a lockdown, while a further 10 million have been asked to simply act responsibly. While it is too early to have definite answers about what works best, interesting insights can already be gleaned.

The Swedish approach to COVID-19 could not be more different from its neighbours, placing much of the responsibility for delaying the spread of the virus and protecting the vulnerable in the hands of the public. It’s now April and, albeit with some restrictions, Swedish bars, restaurants and schools remain open.

Under the blue skies and blazing sun Sweden has enjoyed lately, people have flocked to parks and beaches, bars and cafes. Nevertheless, Sweden has a high number of people living in single households, and citizens are generally respectful of public health advice and guidelines.

https://theconversation.com/coronavirus ... ies-135344
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apples_an ... %20oranges.
Last edited by Anonymous 1 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:21 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:35 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:17 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:20 am
Clogs wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:31 am Sweden is now recording fewer positive cases than Norway and Denmark, who I feel are probably only 2 weeks away from another hard lockdown as a result of their impending second wave. I suspect Sweden will also suffer from some sort of second wave, it just may not be as pronounced as Denmark and Norway.
The latest figures i could get for Sweden on worldometer were for the 3rd of September. So i'm posting for the 2nd and the 3rd. All three countries are out of lockdown yet there is no evidence from this that the Swedes now have greater immunity in exchange for killing so many of their people earlier in the year.

Sweden 213 207
Denmark 111 179
Norway 163 86
I assume he is talking about their 14 day incidence.

I don't think Sweden report that regularly.
Well I've just done the last 10 days Sweden have reported and the same 10 days for the other two. Sweden is such much higher than the others I'm not going to bother with the 14.
Does that reflect population?

Also needs to reflect testing.
I don't know the testing but Sweden has twice the population of the other two countries. The truth is if Sweden had a much lower infection rate you wouldn't be asking these questions. if Sweden had reached the goal of 60% with antibodies you wouldn't have been saying it's just guess work that it had to be 60%. Sweden got 20% and by coincidence you are saying it may only need to be 20%. When they daily 5 or 6 times as many Swedes were dying as the other countries you were saying well they are playing the long game. At every point so far their strategy has looked shit but I accept it ain't over.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:34 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:21 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:35 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:17 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:20 am

The latest figures i could get for Sweden on worldometer were for the 3rd of September. So i'm posting for the 2nd and the 3rd. All three countries are out of lockdown yet there is no evidence from this that the Swedes now have greater immunity in exchange for killing so many of their people earlier in the year.

Sweden 213 207
Denmark 111 179
Norway 163 86
I assume he is talking about their 14 day incidence.

I don't think Sweden report that regularly.
Well I've just done the last 10 days Sweden have reported and the same 10 days for the other two. Sweden is such much higher than the others I'm not going to bother with the 14.
Does that reflect population?

Also needs to reflect testing.
I don't know the testing but Sweden has twice the population of the other two countries. The truth is if Sweden had a much lower infection rate you wouldn't be asking these questions. if Sweden had reached the goal of 60% with antibodies you wouldn't have been saying it's just guess work that it had to be 60%. Sweden got 20% and by coincidence you are saying it may only need to be 20%. When they daily 5 or 6 times as many Swedes were dying as the other countries you were saying well they are playing the long game. At every point so far their strategy has looked shit but I accept it ain't over.
Well you need to adjust for the population so.

I didn't bring up their infection rate.

You are once again confused on what the strategy was. There was no "goal" of 60%. Again, this is just made up.

Yes Sweden were playing the long game, but the "herd immunity" line taken by the European press was wrong. What they said that it could be a beneficial byproduct of their strategy that they develop some immunity, and that this would help control the virus. The long term strategy was in terms of what was sustainable. Their points on lockdowns and reopening are coming out. All over Europe there are new regulations coming in and out now to avoid lockdowns, but they don't really know what works. They aren't having these discussions in Sweden. That is a positive and gives confidence to society.

The primary lesson they learned from their approach was to protect aged care better. That was a tactical failure rather than a strategic one.

I still say I admire Denmark's approach the most. They locked down but then began to reopen in mid April. Sweden failed on several fronts, but the tail risk they took over Covid was the biggest one. In terms of Denmark, they were opened back up when hospitals started to clear and had honest discussions with their population. Unlike Sweden, they tooled up their test and trace (another area I disagree with Sweden on). It would be wrong to suggest that there wasn't luck involved though. The Danes have lots of home care of the elderly, that gave them a bit advantage vs. the rest of Europe.

Overall though, we aren't able to have good discussions on these things as people keep shrieking and looking at these things irrationally.
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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:28 am
MungoMan wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:14 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:42 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:16 am
CrazyIslander wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:48 am Sweden has less than half of Australia's population but nearly 10 times more deaths - over 5000. Per capita it's on par with US.
And so are many other countries that locked down.
I don't see the point in comparing Sweden to Australia or many other countries. Best to compare the nordic nations with each other.
Do you reckon the virus gives a rats’s arse whether countries were once ruled by the same royal families and suchlike? That’s the prime basis for grouping the ‘Nordic’ countries.

Put aside the matter of which north west Euro countries once shared kings etc, and what distinguishes the Nordic countries from other countries of a similar size in the same area?

If it’s OK compare Finland (5.5M) to Sweden (10.1M), then it’s equally valid to compare Sweden with Belgium (11.6M) and The Netherlands (17.M). They are all parliamentary democracies with a high standard of living located in the same part of the world.
WTF
Coronavirus: why the Nordics are our best bet for comparing strategies

April 3rd

Daily updated graphs illustrating the rising COVID-19 death rates in different countries raise hopes that we can understand the impact of the virus and work out how to stop it from spreading further. But when comparing countries as different as South Korea, China, Italy and the UK, we may find the impression of how different interventions work is obscured by many other factors.

These countries differ in many important ways, including demographics, civil disobedience, population density, patterns of social interactions, air quality and genetics. Italy, for example, has regions with older populations than many other countries. And European societies are unlikely to ever accept the draconian interventions used in China and South Korea.

From a scientific perspective, and in the absence of better models, the Nordic countries of Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Finland – which are culturally, economically, politically and geographically similar – may, serendipitously, represent a powerful intervention trial.

Currently, 15 million people here have been assigned to a lockdown, while a further 10 million have been asked to simply act responsibly. While it is too early to have definite answers about what works best, interesting insights can already be gleaned.

The Swedish approach to COVID-19 could not be more different from its neighbours, placing much of the responsibility for delaying the spread of the virus and protecting the vulnerable in the hands of the public. It’s now April and, albeit with some restrictions, Swedish bars, restaurants and schools remain open.

Under the blue skies and blazing sun Sweden has enjoyed lately, people have flocked to parks and beaches, bars and cafes. Nevertheless, Sweden has a high number of people living in single households, and citizens are generally respectful of public health advice and guidelines.

https://theconversation.com/coronavirus ... ies-135344
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2ewxCPtw7w

Why don't you listen to the public health chief in Norway, who says the approaches really weren't all that different.
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Anonymous 1
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:02 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2ewxCPtw7w

Why don't you listen to the public health chief in Norway, who says the approaches really weren't all that different.
I put more store in what they do than what they say. Like don't deliberately kill off their people on a wing and a prayer say so of a dickhead
Coronavirus: Denmark and Norway exclude Sweden from tourism

Norway and Denmark say they will open up tourism between their two countries from 15 June but will maintain restrictions for Swedes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52853556
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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:06 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:02 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2ewxCPtw7w

Why don't you listen to the public health chief in Norway, who says the approaches really weren't all that different.
I put more store in what they do than what they say. Like don't deliberately kill off their people on a wing and a prayer say so of a dickhead
Coronavirus: Denmark and Norway exclude Sweden from tourism

Norway and Denmark say they will open up tourism between their two countries from 15 June but will maintain restrictions for Swedes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52853556
And if you listen to the Norweigan public health chief, she states banning Sweden was political, not scientific.

If you go back to the Danes travel ban, it was similar. It was actually argued against by their public health team.

You need to dig a bit deeper here.

"Deliberately" killing people is such a stupid thing to say.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:37 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:06 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:02 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2ewxCPtw7w

Why don't you listen to the public health chief in Norway, who says the approaches really weren't all that different.
I put more store in what they do than what they say. Like don't deliberately kill off their people on a wing and a prayer say so of a dickhead
Coronavirus: Denmark and Norway exclude Sweden from tourism

Norway and Denmark say they will open up tourism between their two countries from 15 June but will maintain restrictions for Swedes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52853556
And if you listen to the Norweigan public health chief, she states banning Sweden was political, not scientific.

If you go back to the Danes travel ban, it was similar. It was actually argued against by their public health team.

You need to dig a bit deeper here.

"Deliberately" killing people is such a stupid thing to say.
I put more store in what they do than what they say. As far as I am concerned adopting a strategy that you know is going to lead to more people dying in the short term in the hope that some unproven theory is going to lead to fewer deaths overall if there is a second wave is deliberately killing people.
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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:39 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:37 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:06 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:02 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2ewxCPtw7w

Why don't you listen to the public health chief in Norway, who says the approaches really weren't all that different.
I put more store in what they do than what they say. Like don't deliberately kill off their people on a wing and a prayer say so of a dickhead
Coronavirus: Denmark and Norway exclude Sweden from tourism

Norway and Denmark say they will open up tourism between their two countries from 15 June but will maintain restrictions for Swedes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52853556
And if you listen to the Norweigan public health chief, she states banning Sweden was political, not scientific.

If you go back to the Danes travel ban, it was similar. It was actually argued against by their public health team.

You need to dig a bit deeper here.

"Deliberately" killing people is such a stupid thing to say.
I put more store in what they do than what they say. As far as I am concerned adopting a strategy that you know is going to lead to more people dying in the short term in the hope that some unproven theory is going to lead to fewer deaths overall if there is a second wave is deliberately killing people.
And if you listen to the interview, you can hear what she said they did vs. Sweden.

Not that difficult.

What do you mean by unproven theory by the way?
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Image
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Anonymous 1
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:41 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:39 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:37 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:06 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:02 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2ewxCPtw7w

Why don't you listen to the public health chief in Norway, who says the approaches really weren't all that different.
I put more store in what they do than what they say. Like don't deliberately kill off their people on a wing and a prayer say so of a dickhead
Coronavirus: Denmark and Norway exclude Sweden from tourism

Norway and Denmark say they will open up tourism between their two countries from 15 June but will maintain restrictions for Swedes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52853556
And if you listen to the Norweigan public health chief, she states banning Sweden was political, not scientific.

If you go back to the Danes travel ban, it was similar. It was actually argued against by their public health team.

You need to dig a bit deeper here.

"Deliberately" killing people is such a stupid thing to say.
I put more store in what they do than what they say. As far as I am concerned adopting a strategy that you know is going to lead to more people dying in the short term in the hope that some unproven theory is going to lead to fewer deaths overall if there is a second wave is deliberately killing people.
And if you listen to the interview, you can hear what she said they did vs. Sweden.

Not that difficult.

What do you mean by unproven theory by the way?
Leave people free to catch Covid-19 and die and enough people will survive to have 60% of the population with antibodies by mid June to have herd immunity.
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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:02 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:41 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:39 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:37 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:06 pm

I put more store in what they do than what they say. Like don't deliberately kill off their people on a wing and a prayer say so of a dickhead

And if you listen to the Norweigan public health chief, she states banning Sweden was political, not scientific.

If you go back to the Danes travel ban, it was similar. It was actually argued against by their public health team.

You need to dig a bit deeper here.

"Deliberately" killing people is such a stupid thing to say.
I put more store in what they do than what they say. As far as I am concerned adopting a strategy that you know is going to lead to more people dying in the short term in the hope that some unproven theory is going to lead to fewer deaths overall if there is a second wave is deliberately killing people.
And if you listen to the interview, you can hear what she said they did vs. Sweden.

Not that difficult.

What do you mean by unproven theory by the way?
Leave people free to catch Covid-19 and die and enough people will survive to have 60% of the population with antibodies by mid June to have herd immunity.
That wasn't the theory, stop making stuff up.
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Anonymous 1
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:58 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:02 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:41 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:39 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:37 pm

And if you listen to the Norweigan public health chief, she states banning Sweden was political, not scientific.

If you go back to the Danes travel ban, it was similar. It was actually argued against by their public health team.

You need to dig a bit deeper here.

"Deliberately" killing people is such a stupid thing to say.
I put more store in what they do than what they say. As far as I am concerned adopting a strategy that you know is going to lead to more people dying in the short term in the hope that some unproven theory is going to lead to fewer deaths overall if there is a second wave is deliberately killing people.
And if you listen to the interview, you can hear what she said they did vs. Sweden.

Not that difficult.

What do you mean by unproven theory by the way?
Leave people free to catch Covid-19 and die and enough people will survive to have 60% of the population with antibodies by mid June to have herd immunity.
That wasn't the theory, stop making stuff up.
Yeah they denied that was the goal after they realised they couldn't hit it. A bit like you. Moving the goalposts
21st May

Just 7.3% of Stockholm’s inhabitants had developed Covid-19 antibodies by the end of April, according to a study, raising concerns that the country’s light-touch approach to the coronavirus may not be helping it build up broad immunity.

Tegnell has denied herd immunity is a goal in itself, saying Sweden aims instead to slow the spread of the virus enough for health services to cope. But he has also said countries that imposed strict lockdowns could be more vulnerable to a second wave of infections because a smaller percentage of their populations would be immune.

In April, officials estimated one third of Stockholm residents would have contracted Covid-19 by early May, subsequently suggesting that the capital could reach herd immunity of between 40% and 60% by the middle of June.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oronavirus
Deliberately killing people
Sweden’s light-touch approach to Covid-19 has come under renewed criticism after emails show the country’s chief epidemiologist appearing to ask whether a higher death rate among older people might be acceptable if it led to faster herd immunity.

Speculation about the views of Sweden’s leading public health officials was further fanned after it also emerged that Anders Tegnell, the architect of the country’s no-lockdown strategy, had deleted some of his emails.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ity-emails
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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

It was an estimate based on what they were seeing in hospitals.

It was not a goal.
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towny
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by towny »

Clogs wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:12 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:09 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:06 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:07 pm Well Covid has now gone through a fair chunk of the Israeli population at this stage with a large uncontrolled outbreak and the death rate remains low. Why?
With all the therapeutic treatments that have been developed the death rates should be falling in countries where they are available. The same thing has been happening in the UK for months.

JUL 7, 2020
SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus. Below are 13 potential Israeli treatments using a variety of approaches – such as Ivermectin, placenta-derived cells, peptides, blood plasma of recovered patients, and the cannabis compound CBD.

Israeli hospitals were among the first anywhere to use dexamethasone, a steroid drug, to stop cytokines storms and reduce lung inflammation in severely ill COVID-19 patients. However, steroids can suppress the immune response too strongly. Additionally, an Israeli hospital is among the first to do a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial of ivermectin, a drug to treat parasitic infections in people and animals, to see if it can shorten the duration of the disease if given to Covid-19 patients immediately after diagnosis. Israelis are also formulating novel therapeutics of their own.
https://www.trialsitenews.com/13-promis ... vermectin/
It hasn’t happened everywhere. Deaths have increased in some places after case inflation, they haven’t elsewhere.

Take Illinois for example, cases up but deaths level.

Something strange is happening in France and Spain too. Looks like the second wave in Europe is beginning to kick off in earnest. Will be fascinating to see what happens in Sweden.
Nothing is happening here. Life is normal.
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towny
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by towny »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:31 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:58 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:02 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:41 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:39 pm

I put more store in what they do than what they say. As far as I am concerned adopting a strategy that you know is going to lead to more people dying in the short term in the hope that some unproven theory is going to lead to fewer deaths overall if there is a second wave is deliberately killing people.
And if you listen to the interview, you can hear what she said they did vs. Sweden.

Not that difficult.

What do you mean by unproven theory by the way?
Leave people free to catch Covid-19 and die and enough people will survive to have 60% of the population with antibodies by mid June to have herd immunity.
That wasn't the theory, stop making stuff up.
Yeah they denied that was the goal after they realised they couldn't hit it. A bit like you. Moving the goalposts
21st May

Just 7.3% of Stockholm’s inhabitants had developed Covid-19 antibodies by the end of April, according to a study, raising concerns that the country’s light-touch approach to the coronavirus may not be helping it build up broad immunity.

Tegnell has denied herd immunity is a goal in itself, saying Sweden aims instead to slow the spread of the virus enough for health services to cope. But he has also said countries that imposed strict lockdowns could be more vulnerable to a second wave of infections because a smaller percentage of their populations would be immune.

In April, officials estimated one third of Stockholm residents would have contracted Covid-19 by early May, subsequently suggesting that the capital could reach herd immunity of between 40% and 60% by the middle of June.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oronavirus
Deliberately killing people
Sweden’s light-touch approach to Covid-19 has come under renewed criticism after emails show the country’s chief epidemiologist appearing to ask whether a higher death rate among older people might be acceptable if it led to faster herd immunity.

Speculation about the views of Sweden’s leading public health officials was further fanned after it also emerged that Anders Tegnell, the architect of the country’s no-lockdown strategy, had deleted some of his emails.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ity-emails
Since May, less Swedes have died from Covid and pneumonia
than died from pneumonia, flu, etc in the same months last year and the year before that.

Did Sweden kill people last year too, or do you only start caring about people getting sick and dying in 2020?
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by towny »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:55 pm Image
So what? That is the dumbest graph ever.
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Anonymous 1
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Anonymous 1 »

towny wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:26 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:31 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:58 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:02 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:41 pm

And if you listen to the interview, you can hear what she said they did vs. Sweden.

Not that difficult.

What do you mean by unproven theory by the way?
Leave people free to catch Covid-19 and die and enough people will survive to have 60% of the population with antibodies by mid June to have herd immunity.
That wasn't the theory, stop making stuff up.
Yeah they denied that was the goal after they realised they couldn't hit it. A bit like you. Moving the goalposts
21st May

Just 7.3% of Stockholm’s inhabitants had developed Covid-19 antibodies by the end of April, according to a study, raising concerns that the country’s light-touch approach to the coronavirus may not be helping it build up broad immunity.

Tegnell has denied herd immunity is a goal in itself, saying Sweden aims instead to slow the spread of the virus enough for health services to cope. But he has also said countries that imposed strict lockdowns could be more vulnerable to a second wave of infections because a smaller percentage of their populations would be immune.

In April, officials estimated one third of Stockholm residents would have contracted Covid-19 by early May, subsequently suggesting that the capital could reach herd immunity of between 40% and 60% by the middle of June.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oronavirus
Deliberately killing people
Sweden’s light-touch approach to Covid-19 has come under renewed criticism after emails show the country’s chief epidemiologist appearing to ask whether a higher death rate among older people might be acceptable if it led to faster herd immunity.

Speculation about the views of Sweden’s leading public health officials was further fanned after it also emerged that Anders Tegnell, the architect of the country’s no-lockdown strategy, had deleted some of his emails.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ity-emails
Since May, less Swedes have died from Covid and pneumonia
than died from pneumonia, flu, etc in the same months last year and the year before that.

Did Sweden kill people last year too, or do you only start caring about people getting sick and dying in 2020?
Don't talk shite. They make the flu vaccine available for free to at risk people in an attempt to keep them alive. This project was embarked upon in the full knowledge that more of them would almost certainly die than in their neighbouring countries.
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Ellafan
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Ellafan »

Back on topic -

Some interesting discussion here:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-07/ ... s/12634942
Professor Bennett said the roadmap Premier Daniel Andrews announced on Sunday was thin on analysis, and the modelling focused on overseas data rather than Victorian-specific data.

"I don't actually understand where this has come from — we haven't seen the evidence that we hoped to see," she said.
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