Planet Rugby Forum

towny wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:10 am

guy smiley wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:56 am Clogs quoting the Herald Sun

Lockdown seems perfectly appropriate.

Yep.

If you want to eradicate it, you must go the full hog. Some of the loudest on this thread seem to want it all but aren’t prepared to pay anything for it. I guess that perfectly encapsulates the views of the right.

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:03 am He hasnt said it but I think we are going for eradication. To be honest, what else would allow borders to open if places like SA, NT, Tas and WA have achieved that?
And yeah, it needs to be tough. But its been demonstrated pretty clearly that economically getting this controlled and keeping it controlled is best for the economy. You need look no further than the UK going into their second hard lockdown, or the same in France or Spain. Couple that with death rates approaching 0.1% of the population for only around 15% infected. That is brutal and not somewhere we want to be. Reading, Spain had excess mortality of around 50k, the UK around 65k. If that was Australia we would be at 25k. And now they are locking down again.
https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comm ... -countries

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:43 am As long as we can isolate everyone for 14 days when they arrive home AND test them when they first arrive and in day 11, then we should be able to avoid it.

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:43 am As long as we can isolate everyone for 14 days when they arrive home AND test them when they first arrive and in day 11, then we should be able to avoid it.

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:43 am As long as we can isolate everyone for 14 days when they arrive home AND test them when they first arrive and in day 11, then we should be able to avoid it.

towny wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:51 am

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:43 am As long as we can isolate everyone for 14 days when they arrive home AND test them when they first arrive and in day 11, then we should be able to avoid it.

You can only isolate them at home if you have ankle trackers or something on them - alarm goes off if they leave the house.

Taiwan did something like this.

towny wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:51 am

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:43 am As long as we can isolate everyone for 14 days when they arrive home AND test them when they first arrive and in day 11, then we should be able to avoid it.

You can only isolate them at home if you have ankle trackers or something on them - alarm goes off if they leave the house.

Taiwan did something like this.

Electronic ankle tag put on man's fake leg in deadly mistake

GPS device mistakenly applied to the ankle of Mr Green’s false limb in April while he was on house arrest for a gun charge

A slip-up made by a technician fitting an electronic tracking bracelet on a man with a long-standing criminal record has ended in tragedy.

The GPS device was mistakenly applied to the ankle of Washington DC man Quincy Green’s fake leg in April, while he was on house arrest for a gun charge

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 01876.html

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:30 am

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:03 am He hasnt said it but I think we are going for eradication. To be honest, what else would allow borders to open if places like SA, NT, Tas and WA have achieved that?
And yeah, it needs to be tough. But its been demonstrated pretty clearly that economically getting this controlled and keeping it controlled is best for the economy. You need look no further than the UK going into their second hard lockdown, or the same in France or Spain. Couple that with death rates approaching 0.1% of the population for only around 15% infected. That is brutal and not somewhere we want to be. Reading, Spain had excess mortality of around 50k, the UK around 65k. If that was Australia we would be at 25k. And now they are locking down again.
https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comm ... -countries

I think containment, which is what we have effectively achieved in QLD and NSW, is now possible. And I think if Victoria gets down to the levels of infection experienced in these two states (it's almost achieved this) then I can see the state borders opening up.

The game-changer could be when we relax the flow of overseas based Australians from Covid-19 hotspots. It's almost certain that a high number of infected people will arrive, and that the virus will in turn spread locally.

Ellafan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:49 pm Well thank you for your support Ckickenlittle.

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:54 am

towny wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:51 am

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:43 am As long as we can isolate everyone for 14 days when they arrive home AND test them when they first arrive and in day 11, then we should be able to avoid it.

You can only isolate them at home if you have ankle trackers or something on them - alarm goes off if they leave the house.

Taiwan did something like this.

By home I think he means Australia. All arrivals will be quarantined in hotels and charged for the privilege.

towny wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:57 pm

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:54 am

towny wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:51 am

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:43 am As long as we can isolate everyone for 14 days when they arrive home AND test them when they first arrive and in day 11, then we should be able to avoid it.

You can only isolate them at home if you have ankle trackers or something on them - alarm goes off if they leave the house.

Taiwan did something like this.

By home I think he means Australia. All arrivals will be quarantined in hotels and charged for the privilege.

That sounds expensive. But okay.

Ellafan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:49 pm

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:30 am

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:03 am He hasnt said it but I think we are going for eradication. To be honest, what else would allow borders to open if places like SA, NT, Tas and WA have achieved that?
And yeah, it needs to be tough. But its been demonstrated pretty clearly that economically getting this controlled and keeping it controlled is best for the economy. You need look no further than the UK going into their second hard lockdown, or the same in France or Spain. Couple that with death rates approaching 0.1% of the population for only around 15% infected. That is brutal and not somewhere we want to be. Reading, Spain had excess mortality of around 50k, the UK around 65k. If that was Australia we would be at 25k. And now they are locking down again.
https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comm ... -countries

I think containment, which is what we have effectively achieved in QLD and NSW, is now possible. And I think if Victoria gets down to the levels of infection experienced in these two states (it's almost achieved this) then I can see the state borders opening up.

The game-changer could be when we relax the flow of overseas based Australians from Covid-19 hotspots. It's almost certain that a high number of infected people will arrive, and that the virus will in turn spread locally.

Well thank you for your support Ckickenlittle.

towny wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:00 pm

Ellafan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:49 pm

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:30 am

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:03 am He hasnt said it but I think we are going for eradication. To be honest, what else would allow borders to open if places like SA, NT, Tas and WA have achieved that?
And yeah, it needs to be tough. But its been demonstrated pretty clearly that economically getting this controlled and keeping it controlled is best for the economy. You need look no further than the UK going into their second hard lockdown, or the same in France or Spain. Couple that with death rates approaching 0.1% of the population for only around 15% infected. That is brutal and not somewhere we want to be. Reading, Spain had excess mortality of around 50k, the UK around 65k. If that was Australia we would be at 25k. And now they are locking down again.
https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comm ... -countries

I think containment, which is what we have effectively achieved in QLD and NSW, is now possible. And I think if Victoria gets down to the levels of infection experienced in these two states (it's almost achieved this) then I can see the state borders opening up.

The game-changer could be when we relax the flow of overseas based Australians from Covid-19 hotspots. It's almost certain that a high number of infected people will arrive, and that the virus will in turn spread locally.

Well thank you for your support Ckickenlittle.

Are you high? What’s the point of the pain to eradicate it if you just open up again to those outside of the bubble?

Ellafan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:22 pm A properly supervised quarantine period will see to that. This plan of attack does not include untrained, ill-disciplined private security guards.

Ellafan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:22 pm

towny wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:00 pm

Ellafan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:49 pm

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:30 am

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:03 am He hasnt said it but I think we are going for eradication. To be honest, what else would allow borders to open if places like SA, NT, Tas and WA have achieved that?
And yeah, it needs to be tough. But its been demonstrated pretty clearly that economically getting this controlled and keeping it controlled is best for the economy. You need look no further than the UK going into their second hard lockdown, or the same in France or Spain. Couple that with death rates approaching 0.1% of the population for only around 15% infected. That is brutal and not somewhere we want to be. Reading, Spain had excess mortality of around 50k, the UK around 65k. If that was Australia we would be at 25k. And now they are locking down again.
https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comm ... -countries

I think containment, which is what we have effectively achieved in QLD and NSW, is now possible. And I think if Victoria gets down to the levels of infection experienced in these two states (it's almost achieved this) then I can see the state borders opening up.

The game-changer could be when we relax the flow of overseas based Australians from Covid-19 hotspots. It's almost certain that a high number of infected people will arrive, and that the virus will in turn spread locally.

Well thank you for your support Ckickenlittle.

Are you high? What’s the point of the pain to eradicate it if you just open up again to those outside of the bubble?

Your response is in even more stupid than his statement.

Just because some returnees might have covid, does not mean it will spread in the community "in turn".

A properly supervised quarantine period will see to that. This plan of attack does not include untrained, ill-disciplined private security guards.

'How is this happening?': 'Shambolic' hotel quarantine lashed

Alexis Carey
Victoria's Shadow Attorney-General Edward O’Donohue has unleashed on the Andrews Government after a new hotel quarantine scare emerged.

Yesterday, the government pulled private security guards from Melbourne's Novotel following concerns over potential infection control breaches, with police taking over.

The shock news comes soon after an inquiry heard the original, bungled hotel quarantine scheme was responsible for the deaths of 768 people and 18,000 infections.

The story is continuing to unfold today, and Mr O’Donohue has repeatedly hit out at the state government on social media, labelling the revelations "deeply alarming".

“If COVID-19 continues to be spread through the hotel quarantine system, despite all the promises and assurances from Daniel Andrews to have fixed it, would represent a new level of unforgivable incompetence from the shambolic Andrews Labor government," he wrote in a statement shared on Twitter.

Clogs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:29 am If this thing gets out again because of another fvcking hotel quarantine bungle, well, more heads will have to roll.

'How is this happening?': 'Shambolic' hotel quarantine lashed

Alexis Carey
Victoria's Shadow Attorney-General Edward O’Donohue has unleashed on the Andrews Government after a new hotel quarantine scare emerged.

Yesterday, the government pulled private security guards from Melbourne's Novotel following concerns over potential infection control breaches, with police taking over.

The shock news comes soon after an inquiry heard the original, bungled hotel quarantine scheme was responsible for the deaths of 768 people and 18,000 infections.

The story is continuing to unfold today, and Mr O’Donohue has repeatedly hit out at the state government on social media, labelling the revelations "deeply alarming".

“If COVID-19 continues to be spread through the hotel quarantine system, despite all the promises and assurances from Daniel Andrews to have fixed it, would represent a new level of unforgivable incompetence from the shambolic Andrews Labor government," he wrote in a statement shared on Twitter.

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:48 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:29 am If this thing gets out again because of another fvcking hotel quarantine bungle, well, more heads will have to roll.

'How is this happening?': 'Shambolic' hotel quarantine lashed

Alexis Carey
Victoria's Shadow Attorney-General Edward O’Donohue has unleashed on the Andrews Government after a new hotel quarantine scare emerged.

Yesterday, the government pulled private security guards from Melbourne's Novotel following concerns over potential infection control breaches, with police taking over.

The shock news comes soon after an inquiry heard the original, bungled hotel quarantine scheme was responsible for the deaths of 768 people and 18,000 infections.

The story is continuing to unfold today, and Mr O’Donohue has repeatedly hit out at the state government on social media, labelling the revelations "deeply alarming".

“If COVID-19 continues to be spread through the hotel quarantine system, despite all the promises and assurances from Daniel Andrews to have fixed it, would represent a new level of unforgivable incompetence from the shambolic Andrews Labor government," he wrote in a statement shared on Twitter.

I especially like the way that article takes the opinion and words of a shadow MP and treats them as gospel, including the use of the words 'shambolic' in the headline.

Alfred Health said the staff were not being used as security.

"Under the hotel quarantine program, Spotless provided cleaning, customer service and floor monitor roles at the request of DJCS [the Department of Justice and Community Safety]. They were not providing security services," an Alfred spokesperson said.

towny wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:51 am

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:43 am As long as we can isolate everyone for 14 days when they arrive home AND test them when they first arrive and in day 11, then we should be able to avoid it.

You can only isolate them at home if you have ankle trackers or something on them - alarm goes off if they leave the house.

Taiwan did something like this.

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:48 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:29 am If this thing gets out again because of another fvcking hotel quarantine bungle, well, more heads will have to roll.

'How is this happening?': 'Shambolic' hotel quarantine lashed

Alexis Carey
Victoria's Shadow Attorney-General Edward O’Donohue has unleashed on the Andrews Government after a new hotel quarantine scare emerged.

Yesterday, the government pulled private security guards from Melbourne's Novotel following concerns over potential infection control breaches, with police taking over.

The shock news comes soon after an inquiry heard the original, bungled hotel quarantine scheme was responsible for the deaths of 768 people and 18,000 infections.

The story is continuing to unfold today, and Mr O’Donohue has repeatedly hit out at the state government on social media, labelling the revelations "deeply alarming".

“If COVID-19 continues to be spread through the hotel quarantine system, despite all the promises and assurances from Daniel Andrews to have fixed it, would represent a new level of unforgivable incompetence from the shambolic Andrews Labor government," he wrote in a statement shared on Twitter.

I especially like the way that article takes the opinion and words of a shadow MP and treats them as gospel, including the use of the words 'shambolic' in the headline.

Clogs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:54 am Perhaps we should take a poll of the almost 800 grieving families and ask them what word would be more appropriate to describe it?

Clogs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:54 am

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:48 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:29 am If this thing gets out again because of another fvcking hotel quarantine bungle, well, more heads will have to roll.

'How is this happening?': 'Shambolic' hotel quarantine lashed

Alexis Carey
Victoria's Shadow Attorney-General Edward O’Donohue has unleashed on the Andrews Government after a new hotel quarantine scare emerged.

Yesterday, the government pulled private security guards from Melbourne's Novotel following concerns over potential infection control breaches, with police taking over.

The shock news comes soon after an inquiry heard the original, bungled hotel quarantine scheme was responsible for the deaths of 768 people and 18,000 infections.

The story is continuing to unfold today, and Mr O’Donohue has repeatedly hit out at the state government on social media, labelling the revelations "deeply alarming".

“If COVID-19 continues to be spread through the hotel quarantine system, despite all the promises and assurances from Daniel Andrews to have fixed it, would represent a new level of unforgivable incompetence from the shambolic Andrews Labor government," he wrote in a statement shared on Twitter.

I especially like the way that article takes the opinion and words of a shadow MP and treats them as gospel, including the use of the words 'shambolic' in the headline.

Yes that word shambolic is problematic isn't it?


Perhaps we should take a poll of the almost 800 grieving families and ask them what word would be more appropriate to describe it?

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:55 am After months have just looked again at Worldometers. In July NZ and Australia were the same at 4 deaths/million. Today NZ is at 5 deaths/million and Australia 35 deaths/million. You can argue that Victoria dropped the ball but in the end the leader of the country is responsible. That leader is Scott Morrison.

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:55 am After months have just looked again at Worldometers. In July NZ and Australia were the same at 4 deaths/million. Today NZ is at 5 deaths/million and Australia 35 deaths/million. You can argue that Victoria dropped the ball but in the end the leader of the country is responsible. That leader is Scott Morrison.

bimboman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:20 am

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:55 am After months have just looked again at Worldometers. In July NZ and Australia were the same at 4 deaths/million. Today NZ is at 5 deaths/million and Australia 35 deaths/million. You can argue that Victoria dropped the ball but in the end the leader of the country is responsible. That leader is Scott Morrison.

Is he also a Doctor or sum such ?

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:53 am

bimboman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:20 am

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:55 am After months have just looked again at Worldometers. In July NZ and Australia were the same at 4 deaths/million. Today NZ is at 5 deaths/million and Australia 35 deaths/million. You can argue that Victoria dropped the ball but in the end the leader of the country is responsible. That leader is Scott Morrison.

Is he also a Doctor or sum such ?

He is not. But still Australia's Covid stats, despite their horrible response to winter, are 1/20th that of Boris Johnson's Britain.

jdogscoop wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:12 am

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:53 am

bimboman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:20 am

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:55 am After months have just looked again at Worldometers. In July NZ and Australia were the same at 4 deaths/million. Today NZ is at 5 deaths/million and Australia 35 deaths/million. You can argue that Victoria dropped the ball but in the end the leader of the country is responsible. That leader is Scott Morrison.

Is he also a Doctor or sum such ?

He is not. But still Australia's Covid stats, despite their horrible response to winter, are 1/20th that of Boris Johnson's Britain.

I can't believe you have the temerity to still post on this thread after dismissing my assertion that the second wave in Melbourne was caused by hotel quarantine failure.

It has of course emerged through the enquiry that 99 per cent of second wave infections were indeed linked to the debacle.

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:56 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:54 am Perhaps we should take a poll of the almost 800 grieving families and ask them what word would be more appropriate to describe it?

675 of whom wouldn't be grieving if their Federally controlled, funded and regulated aged care centers were doing their job properly.

jdogscoop wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:12 am

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:53 am

bimboman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:20 am

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:55 am After months have just looked again at Worldometers. In July NZ and Australia were the same at 4 deaths/million. Today NZ is at 5 deaths/million and Australia 35 deaths/million. You can argue that Victoria dropped the ball but in the end the leader of the country is responsible. That leader is Scott Morrison.

Is he also a Doctor or sum such ?

He is not. But still Australia's Covid stats, despite their horrible response to winter, are 1/20th that of Boris Johnson's Britain.

I can't believe you have the temerity to still post on this thread after dismissing my assertion that the second wave in Melbourne was caused by hotel quarantine failure.

It has of course emerged through the enquiry that 99 per cent of second wave infections were indeed linked to the debacle.

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:53 am

bimboman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:20 am

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:55 am After months have just looked again at Worldometers. In July NZ and Australia were the same at 4 deaths/million. Today NZ is at 5 deaths/million and Australia 35 deaths/million. You can argue that Victoria dropped the ball but in the end the leader of the country is responsible. That leader is Scott Morrison.

Is he also a Doctor or sum such ?

He is not. But still Australia's Covid stats, despite their horrible response to winter, are 1/20th that of Boris Johnson's Britain.

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:48 am
I especially like the way that article takes the opinion and words of a shadow MP and treats them as gospel, including the use of the words 'shambolic' in the headline.

Ellafan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:11 am

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:48 am
I especially like the way that article takes the opinion and words of a shadow MP and treats them as gospel, including the use of the words 'shambolic' in the headline.

I appreciate that you like it, since it's generally what you do with the same shadow MPs subjective political utterances made at federal level.

Enzedder wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:41 am

towny wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:51 am

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:43 am As long as we can isolate everyone for 14 days when they arrive home AND test them when they first arrive and in day 11, then we should be able to avoid it.

You can only isolate them at home if you have ankle trackers or something on them - alarm goes off if they leave the house.

Taiwan did something like this.

Too many entitled fuckwits to successfully isolate people at home.

Soon enough there will be a global reckoning on whether the coronavirus defences did more damage than the disease.

It will be driven by the swingeing economic destruction imposed by governments that will deliver millions into poverty, driving internal and external conflicts. Beggared states will turn inward, the world will become more polarised, angrier, more dangerous.

In time it's a fair bet the cure will be seen by many as the real curse, as people whose lives have been destroyed seek retribution.

The COVID cure will be seen as worse than the disease, particularly in Victoria.
Though it will be a small wave in the storm, here the Victorian solution and internal border closures should be counted among those judged as doing much more harm than good. That's because there was abundant evidence by mid-year that pointed to more road maps to recovery than the "only way" decreed by the Victorian Premier or the self-interested, colonial-era border wars led by his peers.

You can forgive the early response of all governments to the horror of a novel virus. Plagues are in the front rank of human threats. In February and March little was known about COVID-19 and the worst was rightly assumed. Australia's leaders reacted quickly, worked in unison and chose to buy time; to lock their populations down while health systems were fortified with a timetable set for easing their way out.

That was a sensible, defensible plan. Now there is no nation plan and that is as indefensible as Victoria's panic-stricken response. Because now we know much more about the disease and, while it is a serious illness, it is a whole lot less frightening than it is made out to be.

COVID-19 is nowhere near as deadly as the Spanish flu, which killed an estimated 50 million, mostly young, people worldwide. Fifteen thousand of those deaths were in Australia, in a population that was then just 5 million. At the time of writing, COVID-19 had killed about 930,000 people globally. Here 816 have died in a population now pushing towards 26 million.

No matter how hard the death of anyone under 50 is spun, it is so vanishingly rare among Australia's body count as to be close to zero. If you are a woman, it is zero. In Australia there is a far greater statistical chance that someone under 60 will die in a car accident.

COVID-19 mostly kills the elderly, especially if they have an existing chronic disease. That is not an argument to let them die but it should guide government responses.

Of the 816 Australian deaths the vast majority, 606, were in residential aged care. So if you are going to throw a ring of steel around anything it should be around aged care homes, not Melbourne. The rest of the population should be liberated to get on with their lives while taking sensible health precautions.

Governing should be about balancing risks against costs and only fools and sophists make arguments based on false choices. The debate is not between what we are doing and doing nothing. It should be about what response delivers the greatest good for the greatest number. The Victorian solution punishes the many for the few. It preferences the very old over the young, mortgaging the future of the entire school and working age population. It is hard to imagine how you could design a policy that is more profoundly unfair or damaging to a society.

If the argument is we must do everything in our power to protect the elderly, then we are already doing well. Federal Health Department data, first published in The Australian, shows there were almost 1000 fewer deaths in residential aged care in the first seven months of this year than in the same time last year.

I sourced the same data from the department and received two a tables and a note.

"The lower number of deaths for this period in 2020 (32,398) compared to the same period in 2019 (33,383) is likely the result of increased influenza immunisation rates, and increased infection control protocols introduced during the COVID-19 pandemic," the health department note said.

So, why is it a crime for someone to die of COVID-19 in care but it's OK if they die of absolutely anything else?

This disease has revealed the character of our leaders and hammered home some uncomfortable truths about us as a people. As a nation we seem comfortable with authoritarianism and too many relish the role of prefect.

And nowhere in this often-opaque democracy has a less transparent court system, bureaucracy, police force or government than Victoria. The people there have been badly served, even as some revelled in the servitude. Its systems of power have combined to deliver the wanton destruction of its vibrant society. Its government has condemned its people to a poorer future, to higher unemployment, more poverty and less opportunity.

Rejoice. Dan Andrews has destroyed the village to save it.

Clogs wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:48 am Of the 816 Australian deaths the vast majority, 606, were in residential aged care. So if you are going to throw a ring of steel around anything it should be around aged care homes, not Melbourne. The rest of the population should be liberated to get on with their lives while taking sensible health precautions.

Slim 293 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:03 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:48 am Of the 816 Australian deaths the vast majority, 606, were in residential aged care. So if you are going to throw a ring of steel around anything it should be around aged care homes, not Melbourne. The rest of the population should be liberated to get on with their lives while taking sensible health precautions.

This idea has been covered before, and it's simply not enforceable unless you're planning on locking the staff and anyone else who needs to enter these sites inside with them.

And then of course you're ignoring the wider health implications, which is just idiotic.