Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Ali's Choice
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Ali's Choice »

Watching Dan Andrews's press conf now. There are only 13 active covid-19 cases in hospital across Victoria, with none on ventilators. And only 13 total active cases of aged care residents. That's phenomenal.
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MungoMan
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by MungoMan »

guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:35 am https://www.coronavirus.vic.gov.au/coro ... -melbourne
When will metropolitan Melbourne move to the Third Step?

Subject to public health advice, the third step can start when:

daily average number of cases in the last 14 days is less than 5 state-wide
there are less than 5 cases with an unknown source in the last 14 days (state-wide total)

Third Step
CURRENT WHEN:

Daily average number of cases in the last 14 days is less than 5 (statewide) AND
Less than 5 cases with an unknown source in the last 14 days (statewide total)
The number of cases must be low enough to move to the next step. This is a trigger point for public health review.
Fewer than, FFS :x

Dickhead Vic public servants
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Ogre
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Ogre »

I don't have much hope for a significant change in the lockdown conditions from ol Danny Boi, he will be holding on for next weekend as a chance to move the city closer to "Covid Normal".
What I am looking forward to is the removal of the rather morbid habit I've developed of looking at the daily cases and deaths, its just a stat but in reality its someones mother or father or grandmother or great grandfather that has died unneccesarily. Also getting out of a 200+ day long lockdown would also be nice.
And then of course the Melbourne Cabal (is best Cabal) could begin the road to global caballing domination, the way god intended!
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kiwigreg369
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by kiwigreg369 »

The 17 kiwis are ‘on the run’ - they let them in to Victoria.

You couldn’t make this stuff up..
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Slim 293
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Slim 293 »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:27 am The 17 kiwis are ‘on the run’ - they let them in to Victoria.

You couldn’t make this stuff up..
Border Force don't seem to be very good at this...
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Ali's Choice »

Slim 293 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:32 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:27 am The 17 kiwis are ‘on the run’ - they let them in to Victoria.

You couldn’t make this stuff up..
Border Force don't seem to be very good at this...
Yep, Allan Tudge must be the worst Minister in modern era?
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Clogs
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Clogs »

Farva wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 am
guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:06 am
Farva wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:52 am He said the <5 cases was approximate. We had one case today, two yesterday, six the day before and seven the day before that. The cases in the previous week were largely known and linked to outbreaks, which can be managed (and look to have been). I think the near enough is there now. If the experts say it’s not I’ve no problem waiting another week.

What I am more worried about now is the uncertainty. If we go for another week that’s fine. But no-one is sure and it’s a day out. Businesses can’t open or even prepare to open with uncertainty. Will we open up on Monday? Will we open up the following Monday? Will it be November sometime?

If I were a business owner, I wouldn’t be opening Monday. Do you arrange for staff? Do you order stock? These are decisions that need to be made in advance. That is where my concern is.

7 day rolling average... and the Health dept will need time to collate figures, so let’s say the numbers remain low into this coming week, I think you’ll see a lifting of restrictions come next week. I know that’s speculation but it’s based on the policies we’ve been given.

As for businesses etc... yes, it’s difficult to know with certainty just how to manage any reopening. However, the govt aren’t going to suddenly lift restrictions the night before and everyone has had months to plan their strategy. Some supplies will be limited in availability. Some people may be unavailable for work for whatever reason. A good operator will have contingency plans and there is no rule that says you must trade in a specified fashion. You offer services depending on your supply. It’s not rocket science.
Your a cafe. You are expecting to open Monday and so you buy stock for that. This stock is perishable so if you don’t sell it you lose money. So right now you wouldn’t be buying stock. Irrespective of what is announced tomorrow you aren’t opening. That is the contingency plan and it’s now been forced to be implemented. A couple of days makes a huge difference. Victoria’s strategy to reopening shouldn’t be hinging on what happens in a couple of days. If early this week it was clear we wouldn’t be reopening say ‘we will push the reopening out a week.’
Mate, you are putting forward entirely reasonable questions and in exchange you are being lectured to by people that haven't endured what us Melburnians have had to endure. There is a lack of clarity from the leadership as to what we can expect tomorrow. We are al uncertain as to what is going to happen. But we are being told there is a plan and we are over reacting.
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Clogs
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Clogs »

I am back from my 'allowed out' time for today. I am now in lockdown for the rest of the day. I am not allowed out again.


That means I have the rest of the afternoon to engage. I bet that has you all moist with excitement.
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Farva
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Farva »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:33 am
Slim 293 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:32 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:27 am The 17 kiwis are ‘on the run’ - they let them in to Victoria.

You couldn’t make this stuff up..
Border Force don't seem to be very good at this...
Yep, Allan Tudge must be the worst Minister in modern era?
Border force are an abject failure in all of this. They are the ones that let the Ruby Princess in. They palmed off the responsibility of managing returned Australians to the states (they have ultimate responsibility along with the federal health ministry for quarantine management) and now this.
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Clogs
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Clogs »

guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:35 am https://www.coronavirus.vic.gov.au/coro ... -melbourne
When will metropolitan Melbourne move to the Third Step?

Subject to public health advice, the third step can start when:

daily average number of cases in the last 14 days is less than 5 state-wide
there are less than 5 cases with an unknown source in the last 14 days (state-wide total)

Third Step
CURRENT WHEN:

Daily average number of cases in the last 14 days is less than 5 (statewide) AND
Less than 5 cases with an unknown source in the last 14 days (statewide total)
The number of cases must be low enough to move to the next step. This is a trigger point for public health review.
Yes looks quite clear cut.

Here is what Dan has to say:

'"We are well-placed to take significant steps on Sunday," he said.

"I very much look forward to giving people a sense of what the coming weeks look like and it is fair to say that if these numbers continue then we are very well placed to be broadly in alignment with our foreshadowed stage three."


And in the next breath.

Under step three of the roadmap, public gatherings of up to 10 people are permitted.
Visitors of up to five people are also allowed at the home of one other household.
However, Mr Andrews today said changes would be "conservative", describing gatherings at households "more dangerous than any meatworks".
It is not yet clear if visitors will be allowed to homes or under what capacity.

Mr Andrews earlier said it was "unlikely" there would be any major change in retail.
"I think it's unlikely that this weekend there will be a big shift in terms of retail," he said this week.
"There are risks, not so much with the setting, the risk relates to movement.
"We've had Bunnings put pretty clear views to us, our stores are safe, we haven't had any outbreaks, and that's largely true.
"It's not so much the problem with the setting, it's letting all the customers out of their homes to then go and shop there."
The premier today did not provide any further clarity on when retail stores could reopen.

The reopening of hairdressers and beauty salons could be pushed back, despite the third step planning for them to reopen provided masks are able to be worn during services.
The premier has maintained the changes to be announced will likely be more "social" than "economic".

So yeah, it seems we are well placed to be broadly in alignment with stage three. But no one really has any clue as to what it all means...

We have to wait until tomorrow because they themselves are busy working it all out today...
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Ellafan »

Ogre wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:31 pm Its nice to be under house arrest so that only 2 people in a metro region of 5 million can catch the rona.

All political bun fights aside (Clogs and Ali C go to the naughty chair) its time to let people get on with their lives. We have (mostly) complied with draconian restrictions on civil liberties, watched small business get hammered with closure and uncertainty and seen the social impacts of isolation on so many people. A reasonable level of precautions, masks, social distancing, cleaning your damn hands, limited numbers at eaterys etc still need to be in play, but this 5km rule and nothing but supermarkets being open can sod off.

Also I want a haircut!
Let's not let reason and logic in here, Ogre. Anyone who criticizes the lockdown approach (even as to extent/degree) on economic grounds is immediately branded a right wing fascist, Murdoch watching, Alan Jones butt-kisser, anti-vaxer, climate change denier, anti immigration one nation/nats/shooters' and fishers' supporter.

Did I leave anything out AC?
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Ellafan wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:10 am
Ogre wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:31 pm Its nice to be under house arrest so that only 2 people in a metro region of 5 million can catch the rona.

All political bun fights aside (Clogs and Ali C go to the naughty chair) its time to let people get on with their lives. We have (mostly) complied with draconian restrictions on civil liberties, watched small business get hammered with closure and uncertainty and seen the social impacts of isolation on so many people. A reasonable level of precautions, masks, social distancing, cleaning your damn hands, limited numbers at eaterys etc still need to be in play, but this 5km rule and nothing but supermarkets being open can sod off.

Also I want a haircut!
Let's not let reason and logic in here, Ogre. Anyone who criticizes the lockdown approach (even as to extent/degree) on economic grounds is immediately branded a right wing fascist, Murdoch watching, Alan Jones butt-kisser, anti-vaxer, climate change denier, anti immigration one nation/nats/shooters' and fishers' supporter.

Did I leave anything out AC?
Anti-5G. You left out anti-5G.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by bimboman »

All safe until international travel returns.
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Ellafan
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Ellafan »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:12 am
Ellafan wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:10 am
Ogre wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:31 pm Its nice to be under house arrest so that only 2 people in a metro region of 5 million can catch the rona.

All political bun fights aside (Clogs and Ali C go to the naughty chair) its time to let people get on with their lives. We have (mostly) complied with draconian restrictions on civil liberties, watched small business get hammered with closure and uncertainty and seen the social impacts of isolation on so many people. A reasonable level of precautions, masks, social distancing, cleaning your damn hands, limited numbers at eaterys etc still need to be in play, but this 5km rule and nothing but supermarkets being open can sod off.

Also I want a haircut!
Let's not let reason and logic in here, Ogre. Anyone who criticizes the lockdown approach (even as to extent/degree) on economic grounds is immediately branded a right wing fascist, Murdoch watching, Alan Jones butt-kisser, anti-vaxer, climate change denier, anti immigration one nation/nats/shooters' and fishers' supporter.

Did I leave anything out AC?
Anti-5G. You left out anti-5G.
Shit.

Sorry mate.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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bimboman wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:14 am All safe until international travel returns.
Thousands of international arrivals fly to Australia every day. We're just controlling the process.
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MungoMan
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by MungoMan »

Ogre wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:31 pm Its nice to be under house arrest so that only 2 people in a metro region of 5 million can catch the rona.

All political bun fights aside (Clogs and Ali C go to the naughty chair) its time to let people get on with their lives. We have (mostly) complied with draconian restrictions on civil liberties, watched small business get hammered with closure and uncertainty and seen the social impacts of isolation on so many people. A reasonable level of precautions, masks, social distancing, cleaning your damn hands, limited numbers at eaterys etc still need to be in play, but this 5km rule and nothing but supermarkets being open can sod off.

Also I want a haircut!
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by bimboman »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:39 am
bimboman wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:14 am All safe until international travel returns.
Thousands of international arrivals fly to Australia every day. We're just controlling the process.

1,000’s eh.

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/indus ... st-release

The actual scale of the decline.
State or territory of stay

All travellers are asked their intended address in Australia upon arrival. There were decreases of over 99% across all states and territories when compared to the corresponding month of the previous year.
Last edited by bimboman on Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Clogs
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Clogs »

Ellafan wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:17 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:12 am
Ellafan wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:10 am
Ogre wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:31 pm Its nice to be under house arrest so that only 2 people in a metro region of 5 million can catch the rona.

All political bun fights aside (Clogs and Ali C go to the naughty chair) its time to let people get on with their lives. We have (mostly) complied with draconian restrictions on civil liberties, watched small business get hammered with closure and uncertainty and seen the social impacts of isolation on so many people. A reasonable level of precautions, masks, social distancing, cleaning your damn hands, limited numbers at eaterys etc still need to be in play, but this 5km rule and nothing but supermarkets being open can sod off.

Also I want a haircut!
Let's not let reason and logic in here, Ogre. Anyone who criticizes the lockdown approach (even as to extent/degree) on economic grounds is immediately branded a right wing fascist, Murdoch watching, Alan Jones butt-kisser, anti-vaxer, climate change denier, anti immigration one nation/nats/shooters' and fishers' supporter.

Did I leave anything out AC?
Anti-5G. You left out anti-5G.
Shit.

Sorry mate.
Surely some mention of how you want to exterminate the elderly has to be in there too?
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Clogs
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Clogs »

So who else on here is locked down in there home unable to leave for any reason?
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guy smiley
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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Clogs wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:45 am So who else on here is locked down in there home unable to leave for any reason?
I’m stuck in another f**king country away from my home and have been for 7 1/2 months now.

Do please go on about your ordeal, though. Share your pain.
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Clogs
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Clogs »

guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:58 am
Clogs wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:45 am So who else on here is locked down in there home unable to leave for any reason?
I’m stuck in another f**king country away from my home and have been for 7 1/2 months now.

Do please go on about your ordeal, though. Share your pain.
Shit sorry, I didn't realise that. I hope you can at least get out to a pub or two for a beer or nice meal to at least make up for it some how. Which shithole country are you stuck in?
Last edited by Clogs on Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
grievous
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by grievous »

guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:58 am
Clogs wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:45 am So who else on here is locked down in there home unable to leave for any reason?
I’m stuck in another f**king country away from my home and have been for 7 1/2 months now.

Do please go on about your ordeal, though. Share your pain.
Can you just like...get at job in your country...like most of us. Shirley your predicament is a result of your choices.
bimboman
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

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guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:58 am
Clogs wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:45 am So who else on here is locked down in there home unable to leave for any reason?
I’m stuck in another f**king country away from my home and have been for 7 1/2 months now.

Do please go on about your ordeal, though. Share your pain.
I didn’t know they’d cut off parts of the world completely....

Tough break.
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Farva
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Farva »

grievous wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:28 am
guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:58 am
Clogs wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:45 am So who else on here is locked down in there home unable to leave for any reason?
I’m stuck in another f**king country away from my home and have been for 7 1/2 months now.

Do please go on about your ordeal, though. Share your pain.
Can you just like...get at job in your country...like most of us. Shirley your predicament is a result of your choices.
It’s a predicament of a globalised world that is suddenly nationalised.
It sucks and I feel for Guy.
Not too much because he is out drinking with Snapper most weekends.
But he can’t get home which sucks.
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guy smiley
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by guy smiley »

grievous wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:28 am
guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:58 am
Clogs wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:45 am So who else on here is locked down in there home unable to leave for any reason?
I’m stuck in another f**king country away from my home and have been for 7 1/2 months now.

Do please go on about your ordeal, though. Share your pain.
Can you just like...get at job in your country...like most of us. Shirley your predicament is a result of your choices.
Yeah sure, I made a choice. I decided it would be better to stay here and squeeze the dollar juices out of imprisoned Melburnians than to go home and face a potentially depressed labour market. It’s not actually all that bad... it’s just that the squealing noise the Melburnians make gets on the nerves.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by bimboman »

guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:38 am
grievous wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:28 am
guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:58 am
Clogs wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:45 am So who else on here is locked down in there home unable to leave for any reason?
I’m stuck in another f**king country away from my home and have been for 7 1/2 months now.

Do please go on about your ordeal, though. Share your pain.
Can you just like...get at job in your country...like most of us. Shirley your predicament is a result of your choices.
Yeah sure, I made a choice. I decided it would be better to stay here and squeeze the dollar juices out of imprisoned Melburnians than to go home and face a potentially depressed labour market. It’s not actually all that bad... it’s just that the squealing noise the Melburnians make gets on the nerves.


There’s nothing actually stopping you going “home” then.
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Farva
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Farva »

If he wants a job it does.
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Farva
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Farva »

guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:38 am
grievous wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:28 am
guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:58 am
Clogs wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:45 am So who else on here is locked down in there home unable to leave for any reason?
I’m stuck in another f**king country away from my home and have been for 7 1/2 months now.

Do please go on about your ordeal, though. Share your pain.
Can you just like...get at job in your country...like most of us. Shirley your predicament is a result of your choices.
Yeah sure, I made a choice. I decided it would be better to stay here and squeeze the dollar juices out of imprisoned Melburnians than to go home and face a potentially depressed labour market. It’s not actually all that bad... it’s just that the squealing noise the Melburnians make gets on the nerves.
To be fair Melbourne and you are completely different.
You can still get out to bars, and leave your home. Well, wherever you are staying in your off time.
We in Melbourne have largely been confined to our home for 5 of the last 6 months. It is driving me mad.
That’s not to belittle your issue, it’s just different.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by grievous »

guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:38 am
grievous wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:28 am
guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:58 am
Clogs wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:45 am So who else on here is locked down in there home unable to leave for any reason?
I’m stuck in another f**king country away from my home and have been for 7 1/2 months now.

Do please go on about your ordeal, though. Share your pain.
Can you just like...get at job in your country...like most of us. Shirley your predicament is a result of your choices.
Yeah sure, I made a choice. I decided it would be better to stay here and squeeze the dollar juices out of imprisoned Melburnians than to go home and face a potentially depressed labour market. It’s not actually all that bad... it’s just that the squealing noise the Melburnians make gets on the nerves.
Well despite the anti vaxxer like whine from the usuals in here its now time to let the Mexicans out.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by guy smiley »

Understood Farva. I feel for you guys.

I’m just over Clogs’ crytrolling.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by grievous »

Farva wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:42 am
guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:38 am
grievous wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:28 am
guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:58 am
Clogs wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:45 am So who else on here is locked down in there home unable to leave for any reason?
I’m stuck in another f**king country away from my home and have been for 7 1/2 months now.

Do please go on about your ordeal, though. Share your pain.
Can you just like...get at job in your country...like most of us. Shirley your predicament is a result of your choices.
Yeah sure, I made a choice. I decided it would be better to stay here and squeeze the dollar juices out of imprisoned Melburnians than to go home and face a potentially depressed labour market. It’s not actually all that bad... it’s just that the squealing noise the Melburnians make gets on the nerves.
To be fair Melbourne and you are completely different.
You can still get out to bars, and leave your home. Well, wherever you are staying in your off time.
We in Melbourne have largely been confined to our home for 5 of the last 6 months. It is driving me mad.
That’s not to belittle your issue, it’s just different.
First beer at a pub becomes an event, like youre 15 again.
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Farva
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Farva »

guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:45 am Understood Farva. I feel for you guys.

I’m just over Clogs’ crytrolling.
Worst bit is I have just settled on a holiday house in Gippsland and I was planning on heading down next weekend. Won’t be happening now :(
bimboman
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by bimboman »

Farva wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:40 am If he wants a job it does.

I’d like to move to Barbados but you’re right there isn’t a job there for me. This has nothing to do with the pandemic.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by towny »

Farva wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:42 am
guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:38 am
grievous wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:28 am
guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:58 am
Clogs wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:45 am So who else on here is locked down in there home unable to leave for any reason?
I’m stuck in another f**king country away from my home and have been for 7 1/2 months now.

Do please go on about your ordeal, though. Share your pain.
Can you just like...get at job in your country...like most of us. Shirley your predicament is a result of your choices.
Yeah sure, I made a choice. I decided it would be better to stay here and squeeze the dollar juices out of imprisoned Melburnians than to go home and face a potentially depressed labour market. It’s not actually all that bad... it’s just that the squealing noise the Melburnians make gets on the nerves.
To be fair Melbourne and you are completely different.
You can still get out to bars, and leave your home. Well, wherever you are staying in your off time.
We in Melbourne have largely been confined to our home for 5 of the last 6 months. It is driving me mad.
That’s not to belittle your issue, it’s just different.
Man.

I hear this and don’t know what to think.
Life is normal over here. Even the oldies are out and about. Don’t get me wrong, I think this winter will be horrific and will lead to restrictions - but I really grasp how big the changes in your lives must be. It’s surreal.
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Clogs
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Clogs »

guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:38 am
grievous wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:28 am
guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:58 am
Clogs wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:45 am So who else on here is locked down in there home unable to leave for any reason?
I’m stuck in another f**king country away from my home and have been for 7 1/2 months now.

Do please go on about your ordeal, though. Share your pain.
Can you just like...get at job in your country...like most of us. Shirley your predicament is a result of your choices.
Yeah sure, I made a choice. I decided it would be better to stay here and squeeze the dollar juices out of imprisoned Melburnians than to go home and face a potentially depressed labour market. It’s not actually all that bad... it’s just that the squealing noise the Melburnians make gets on the nerves.
Empathy. Some decent humans have it.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-02/ ... e/12588500





As Victoria endures prolonged coronavirus lockdown, mental health workers see devastating impacts of COVID-19

By Elise Kinsella

PostedTue 1 Sep 2020 at 8:29pm, updatedWed 2 Sep 2020 at 6:29am

Joy has been working on the frontline of Melbourne's coronavirus mental health crisis.(ABC News: Simon Tucci)

Joy will always remember the moment Victoria's Premier announced the state would go into a stage 4 coronavirus lockdown.

The Lifeline phone counsellor was working at the mental health agency's South Yarra call centre when Daniel Andrews told Victorians they would be subject to the most stringent lockdown measures Australia had seen.

The phones started ringing immediately and didn't stop for the entire night.

People were anxious and confused.

They were particularly worried about their finances and their jobs.

"There was a level of really heightened fear from all of the help seekers that night," Joy says.

"You could really feel the sense of loss."

The "very grave uncertainty" being felt by some callers that night was "triggering off people who have a pre-disposition anyway towards possible suicidal ideation and self-harm ideation".

Joy began volunteering with Lifeline 14 years ago after losing a family member in tragic circumstances.

But this year at the support service has been unlike any other.

"There has been definitely an elevated sense of stress and anxiety people are experiencing, particularly around social distancing, quarantining, a sense of isolation, disconnection from family, friends, community," she says.

"And an altered sense of reality, where the ability to control choices has become very difficult."

Joy has noticed an increase in the number of calls from healthcare workers during Melbourne's second lockdown.(ABC News: Simon Tucci)Catch up on the main COVID-19 news from October 17 with our coronavirus blog.

This year Lifeline has seen a 25 per cent increase in calls — initially driven by bushfires, and then coronavirus.

In Victoria, where a second wave has claimed hundreds of lives and seen thousands of people infected, the mental health toll has been pronounced.

When the Victorian Government locked down several public housing towers, Lifeline saw a 22 per cent increase in calls from the state.

When stage 4 restrictions were announced, the calls from Victorians jumped by 30 per cent.

How do you support someone with anxiety?

If you haven't experienced anxiety yourself, it can be hard to really understand what it's like, let alone know how to support someone who is managing it.

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Many exhausted Victorian healthcare workers have been among the callers.

They're experiencing burn-out and fatigue, and they're stressed about not being able to take time off work, Joy says.

They have also raised concerns about the possibility of unknowingly contracting and passing on the virus.

"They feel stigmatised that they are at risk of passing on the virus."

Lifeline's also been hearing from people who have caught the virus, who feel like they are being blamed for the pandemic.

"They have reported being treated really poorly," Joy says.

"There is a lot of censure and derision around, 'Oh it is your fault, now you are responsible for the spread of it.'"

And many Victorians report feeling a lack of support from the rest of the country, with many distressed by messages blaming them for the second outbreak.

In school, university or work, many young people are bearing the brunt

In Melbourne's outer east, psychologist Sharon Patton is steering Headspace's mental health service for young people through the pandemic.

Its Knox office sits between the major suburban hubs of Ringwood, Boronia and Glen Waverley and the more rural Dandenong Ranges.

It has seen an estimated 50 per cent rise in referrals for young people who have been admitted to a hospital emergency department because of a mental health crisis.

Sharon Patton leads the clinical team at Headspace in Knox.(ABC News: Peter Drought)

Sharon says many young people are waiting longer to seek support because of the pandemic. Many are in crisis by the time they reach out.

"We are seeing an increase in risk of suicide, risk of self-harm, a lot more of those troubling behaviours," she says.

It's an issue right across the state.

In early August, a week into stage 4 lockdown, the Victorian Government revealed there'd been a 33 per cent increase in young people presenting to emergency departments because of intentional self-harm, compared to the same time in 2019.

If you or anyone you know needs help:Lifeline on 13 11 14Kids Helpline on 1800 551 800DirectLine Victoria drug/alcohol counselling on 1800 888 236MensLine Australia on 1300 789 978Suicide Call Back Service on 1300 659 467Beyond Blue on 1300 224 636Headspace on 1800 650 890ReachOut at au.reachout.comCare Leavers Australasia Network (CLAN) on 1800 008 774

During this second lockdown, Sharon has noticed an overall 20 per cent rise in people needing help.

Many of them are year 12 students struggling to cope with what's happened to their final year of school.

"We are seeing a lot more disengagement, a loss of hope," she says.

"They are really struggling to stay engaged and stay motivated."

University students, too, are anxious about their futures. Placements have been cancelled, graduations delayed, and job prospects damaged.

And there appears to be more young people dealing with domestic violence or family conflict.

"Where there has been problems previously, whether it is mental health or family conflict or tensions, these lockdowns have really exacerbated those issues and brought them to light," Sharon says.

She says many young people are missing the fun, laughter and playtime they would usually have in their lives, and adding lighter moments to their days is really important.

Read more about coronavirus:Mask fit-testing isn't mandatory in Australia. Should it be?Which countries are doing well with contact tracing for COVID-19, and how do they differ from Australia?Binge watching and drinking are becoming daily norms for some

Psychiatrist Shalini Arunogiri, who specialises in addiction and women's mental health, has noticed huge differences between the first and second-wave lockdowns.

"In lockdown one, what we really saw was people were really running on adrenaline, it was sort of this response to acute stress," she explains.

"It was a situation no-one had been in before so what we saw was this gathering of a lot of energy.

"Lockdown two is really around adrenaline fatigue, just fatigue full stop. A lot of people are feeling burnt out and exhausted."

Shalini Arunogiri is particularly concerned about the pandemic's effects on women.(ABC News: Peter Drought)

Less healthy coping mechanisms, like binge viewing, have now become habitual for some people.

"I think also alcohol is playing a big role for some people, substance use, a lot of screen time," she says.

"Things people might not have set out to do intentionally have kind of stuck around for a bit longer."

Dr Arunogiri says the helpline at Turning Point, the Melbourne addiction centre where she works, has seen a slight increase in people seeking help. But she believes there will be a rise in the future, as the pandemic brings together the factors that often underlie addiction — such as job loss, housing problems and trauma.

She is concerned about the impact the pandemic is having on women.

The high numbers of women losing jobs, working in frontline health and assuming full-time care duties at home mean the pandemic is having specific impacts on the mental health of women.

Governments need to craft policy and provide funding with women in mind, Dr Arunogiri says.

Without interventions, thousands of additional suicide deaths are forecast

Ian Hickie, from Sydney University's Brain and Mind Centre, has been working on complex modelling that forecasts the mental health impacts of the pandemic right across Australia.

He says it's produced "a perfect storm of risk" for many people.

"Three of the biggest risk factors have come together here — disruption of employment and people's regular lives, disruption of education particularly for younger people and then social dislocation more broadly."

Professor Ian Hickie is calling for an urgent national plan to minimise deaths by suicide.(ABC News: Bryan Milliss)

Victoria's second lockdown has made things worse, Professor Hickie says.

"It is contributing to a further significant increase in mental health problems and this will inevitably lead to emergency department presentations, suicidal behaviour and potentially increase the risk of death by suicide."

Data released by the Victorian Coroner last week shows the state has not yet seen a feared spike in suicides.

But Professor Hickie says his modelling forecasts that suicide deaths are likely to start increasing from late this year.

His latest modelling shows Australia risks losing more than 4,000 additional lives to suicide in the next five years because of the pandemic, with more than 7,000 extra lives lost seen as a worst case scenario.

But it's not a foregone conclusion. Professor Hickie says governments can work to reduce the number of lives lost just as they have battled to minimise the number of deaths by coronavirus.

"We can't just look at the figures and say, 'There is nothing to be done," he says.

"It is not inevitable. What governments do right now really matters."

Professor Ian Hickie's work forecasts a sharp rise in suicide deaths in Australia in the next five years.(ABC News: Bryan Millis)

He says the most important mental healthcare program in Australia right now is JobKeeper — and it should be extended beyond March next year.

Keeping it in place until May 2022 could reduce suicide deaths in Australia by nearly 7 per cent, the modelling suggests.

It indicates such a move would have an even bigger impact on young people, cutting emergency department visits for mental health, self-harm and suicide deaths by about 9 per cent.

Professor Hickie also wants governments to focus on getting young adults who are out of work back into the education system, and building greater capacity in the mental healthcare system.

The pandemic could be a 'watershed moment' that helps transform the system

Victoria's Minister for Mental Health, Martin Foley, is leading the state's response to this crisis.

He knows some critics have argued Victoria should not have gone as far as it has with coronavirus restrictions because of the mental health impacts.

But he says the Government is responding to both of the health threats.

"There is a need to balance those [mental health] impacts with the real world impacts of people dying from this so far untreatable virus," he says.

Martin Foley concedes the state's mental health system was not fit for purpose before the pandemic.(ABC News: Daniel Fermer)

The Minister, himself, believes the system "wasn't fit for purpose" before the pandemic. But he's optimistic that significant improvements are happening.

He says his Government has added $200 million dollars to mental healthcare funding, and he is excited by the Federal Government's decision to fund new mental health clinics across the state.

But he says the challenge is steep, with the system already strained by the extra demand.

"We have issues in regard to frontline services," he says. "We have issues in regards to community-based services and there are plenty of challenges in the acute setting."

The Federal Health Minister, Greg Hunt, says since the pandemic began, his Government has added $500 million in funding for mental health services and suicide prevention.

He says the Federal Government recognises the importance of employment and income on mental health
.



On a personal level, 2 families, close friends of our family (and both live within 1 kilometre of us), both families eldest children (boys aged 16 and 17) are now suicidal and heavily medicated. We have no answers and we can't go round to their place to offer comfort. We are not allowed to. For them there is no joy. We as a connected community share their pain. And we are helpless.


But yeh, 1 case today in a city of 5 million and still we are locked down. Please feel free to praise us Melburnians and tell us we are doing so well... :?
User avatar
Farva
Posts: 17116
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Location: STRAYA PLUM

Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Farva »

bimboman wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:51 am
Farva wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:40 am If he wants a job it does.

I’d like to move to Barbados but you’re right there isn’t a job there for me. This has nothing to do with the pandemic.
Not really. The Australian mining industry has a strategy of employing people on rosters of a certain number of weeks on, then some time off. When you get two or three weeks off, people live regionally. That was suddenly changed. It’s like you suddenly can’t commute to your work.
towny
Posts: 18337
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:53 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by towny »

A wise man on this thread once said that a proper conversation needs to be had about the choices, and the subsequent trade-offs and costs.

Covid is still being measured in deaths vs short-term economic costs.
- counting deaths doesn’t nearly capture the consequences
- short term economic pain is barely scraping the surface of the economics, let alone the impact to 2021 to 2040

The social cost is not close to being understood.

After 6 months we are seemingly no closer from having this discussion.
Last edited by towny on Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bimboman
Posts: 65704
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by bimboman »

Farva wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:00 pm
bimboman wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:51 am
Farva wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:40 am If he wants a job it does.

I’d like to move to Barbados but you’re right there isn’t a job there for me. This has nothing to do with the pandemic.
Not really. The Australian mining industry has a strategy of employing people on rosters of a certain number of weeks on, then some time off. When you get two or three weeks off, people live regionally. That was suddenly changed. It’s like you suddenly can’t commute to your work.

If there’s no compensation for that the Aussie government is amiss.
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guy smiley
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Location: in transit

Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by guy smiley »

Farva wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:00 pm
bimboman wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:51 am
Farva wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:40 am If he wants a job it does.

I’d like to move to Barbados but you’re right there isn’t a job there for me. This has nothing to do with the pandemic.
Not really. The Australian mining industry has a strategy of employing people on rosters of a certain number of weeks on, then some time off. When you get two or three weeks off, people live regionally. That was suddenly changed. It’s like you suddenly can’t commute to your work.
No point arguing with Bimbo here. He’s already an expert on the Australian mining industry, rostering, staffing, training and development which dovetails nicely with his intimate knowledge of the average earnings potential of the different demographic groups at play in the labour markets on both sides of the Tasman.
bimboman
Posts: 65704
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by bimboman »

guy smiley wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:04 pm
Farva wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:00 pm
bimboman wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:51 am
Farva wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:40 am If he wants a job it does.

I’d like to move to Barbados but you’re right there isn’t a job there for me. This has nothing to do with the pandemic.
Not really. The Australian mining industry has a strategy of employing people on rosters of a certain number of weeks on, then some time off. When you get two or three weeks off, people live regionally. That was suddenly changed. It’s like you suddenly can’t commute to your work.
No point arguing with Bimbo here. He’s already an expert on the Australian mining industry, rostering, staffing, training and development which dovetails nicely with his intimate knowledge of the average earnings potential of the different demographic groups at play in the labour markets on both sides of the Tasman.

I’m in a country that’s about to produce 4 million unemployed from the pandemic response our government chose.

Locking down more Victorian’s isn’t going to change your lot.
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