Planet Rugby Forum

Why on earth would we stay in lockdown until the world eradicates Covid?
A total of 5 people worldwide have been diagnosed twice. The person in Melbourne has not been confirmed to be reinfected again, rather, they tested positive a few months after being given the all clear. Its being treated as a second infection but that is being conservative. Most likely is that its the same infection with remnants. We wont know until testing on the genetic makeup of the virus is done.

Now, there has been one confirmed reinfection case in the US with a different case (as opposed to the same infection tested twice). Right now, based on the official numbers there is a 2.5% chance of having had Covid in the US, and a 1.7% chance of having recovered (5.7m recoveries, 330m people). So the chance of someone who has recovered having it again is 1.7% x 1.7% - 0.03%. Not high but that should mean 90k people in the UK should have been reinfected. There is one, so that very much looks like an outlier and we might need to take a 1 in 100k chance of having one of those strange conditions that result in reinfection. But it certainly isnt a cause for concern for the vaccine.

Farva wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:56 pm Why on earth would we stay in lockdown until the world eradicates Covid?

According to AC we need to in order protect everyone from dying. The vaccine will also be along soon and then we will all be 100% safe. And Dan will become the leader of the free world for his heroic actions.

Ogre wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:55 pm

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:28 pm Overseas posters must be laughing at Australia; we have one of the lowest rates of infection or death, and a're one of the only countries in the world to successfully manage a fully blown 2nd wave, yet we want to sack the State Premier responsible for doing so. Meanwhile in the UK, USA, Brazil and India, their leaders are enjoying a surge in support despite failing terribly to manage this virus.

While its inarguable that the 2nd wave in Victoria has been all but squished by the actions of the premier and his government and the (to be read in your best Dwayne Johnson voice) Millions and Millions of people living in Melbourne. Let us not be so hasty in handing out the victory beers to the people who inarguably caused the 2nd wave through bureaucratic bungling of the quarantine of plague ridden visitors.

I think the focus of the discussion should shift from the tit for tat argument on the best way to treat the rona and look at how the poplulation of gulag Melbourne can recover financially, socially and most importantly mentally from what must be a contender for longest lockdown in the world.

Things are so bad here we can't even have a Melbourne Cabal (is best Cabal) to watch the Bledisloe

Hoping the plague numbers continue to drop and we see a return to as normal a life as possible in the next week or so.

All current evidence shows that jurisdictions that have the best health outcomes also have the best economic outcomes. If Dan Andrews hadn't gotten on top of covid-19 then Melbourne's economic outlook would be much worse than it is now.

Also, how do you know that this 2nd wave was caused by "bureaucratic bungling of the quarantine of plague ridden visitors". My understanding is that this was spread by a night manager at Rydges. If our best and most well equipped doctors and nurses catch Covid-19 in hospitals and nursing homes then of course hotel staff will also catch it. I just find it amusing that the people demanding Dan Andrews be sacked for overseeing Victoria's 2nd wave are generally the same people who support Donald Trump, who has proudly overseen a genocidal plague in the USA with 225,000 deaths and counting.

Clogs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:41 pm

Farva wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:56 pm Why on earth would we stay in lockdown until the world eradicates Covid?

According to AC we need to in order protect everyone from dying. The vaccine will also be along soon and then we will all be 100% safe. And Dan will become the leader of the free world for his heroic actions.

Dumb post. Hopefully Victoria opens up next weekend or next. When that happens hopefully you'll stop crying and blaming Dan Andrews for your life.

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:28 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:41 pm

Farva wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:56 pm Why on earth would we stay in lockdown until the world eradicates Covid?

According to AC we need to in order protect everyone from dying. The vaccine will also be along soon and then we will all be 100% safe. And Dan will become the leader of the free world for his heroic actions.

Dumb post. Hopefully Victoria opens up next weekend or next. When that happens hopefully you'll stop crying and blaming Dan Andrews for your life.

Hopefully, hopefully. Will it re-open? Well most of Melbourne is still unsure. Even Dan is unsure.

Great leadership. Your mate. Almost decisive but not quite there. Maybe.

I do have to laugh at just how blindly political you are. No one from your 'team' can do any wrong and everyone else is at fault if things do go wrong.

I would go so far as to wager that if a Labor politician were to fvck a chicken in the middle of the AFL Grand Final (in a normal year) you would be on here in a heartbeat defending that politician for releasing that chicken from being all cooped up by the nasty farmer who is probably a Nationals voter.

Clogs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:03 am

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:28 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:41 pm

Farva wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:56 pm Why on earth would we stay in lockdown until the world eradicates Covid?

According to AC we need to in order protect everyone from dying. The vaccine will also be along soon and then we will all be 100% safe. And Dan will become the leader of the free world for his heroic actions.

Dumb post. Hopefully Victoria opens up next weekend or next. When that happens hopefully you'll stop crying and blaming Dan Andrews for your life.

Hopefully, hopefully. Will it re-open? Well most of Melbourne is still unsure. Even Dan is unsure.

Great leadership. Your mate. Almost decisive but not quite there. Maybe.

I do have to laugh at just how blindly political you are. No one from your 'team' can do any wrong and everyone else is at fault if things do go wrong.

I would go so far as to wager that if a Labor politician were to fvck a chicken in the middle of the AFL Grand Final (in a normal year) you would be on here in a heartbeat defending that politician for releasing that chicken from being all cooped up by the nasty farmer who is probably a Nationals voter.

Dan Andrews has arguably led Victoria through its 2nd wave better than any leader on Earth. That' s not opinion, that's fact. Nowhere on Earth has managed its 2nd wave as well as Victoria. You can cry all you like about hotel managers getting COVID-19 and spreading it to their families, but the reality is the COVID-19 did become embedded into the Victorian community, and Andrews did what he had to do to eliminate it. This wasn't the popular option, but it was the right option. If he'd kept the state open when it was recording 700+ new cases per day there would be hundreds if not thousands of Victorians dying every day. Presumably you'd be comfortable with that?

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:18 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:03 am

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:28 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:41 pm

Farva wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:56 pm Why on earth would we stay in lockdown until the world eradicates Covid?

According to AC we need to in order protect everyone from dying. The vaccine will also be along soon and then we will all be 100% safe. And Dan will become the leader of the free world for his heroic actions.

Dumb post. Hopefully Victoria opens up next weekend or next. When that happens hopefully you'll stop crying and blaming Dan Andrews for your life.

Hopefully, hopefully. Will it re-open? Well most of Melbourne is still unsure. Even Dan is unsure.

Great leadership. Your mate. Almost decisive but not quite there. Maybe.

I do have to laugh at just how blindly political you are. No one from your 'team' can do any wrong and everyone else is at fault if things do go wrong.

I would go so far as to wager that if a Labor politician were to fvck a chicken in the middle of the AFL Grand Final (in a normal year) you would be on here in a heartbeat defending that politician for releasing that chicken from being all cooped up by the nasty farmer who is probably a Nationals voter.

Dan Andrews has arguably led Victoria through its 2nd wave better than any leader on Earth. That' s not opinion, that's fact. Nowhere on Earth has managed its 2nd wave as well as Victoria. You can cry all you like about hotel managers getting COVID-19 and spreading it to their families, but the reality is the COVID-19 did become embedded into the Victorian community, and Andrews did what he had to do to eliminate it. This wasn't the popular option, but it was the right option. If he'd kept the state open when it was recording 700+ new cases per day there would be hundreds if not thousands of Victorians dying every day. Presumably you'd be comfortable with that?

Let's say it was a sheep? Would you still blindly defend that?

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:26 am

Ogre wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:55 pm

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:28 pm Overseas posters must be laughing at Australia; we have one of the lowest rates of infection or death, and a're one of the only countries in the world to successfully manage a fully blown 2nd wave, yet we want to sack the State Premier responsible for doing so. Meanwhile in the UK, USA, Brazil and India, their leaders are enjoying a surge in support despite failing terribly to manage this virus.

While its inarguable that the 2nd wave in Victoria has been all but squished by the actions of the premier and his government and the (to be read in your best Dwayne Johnson voice) Millions and Millions of people living in Melbourne. Let us not be so hasty in handing out the victory beers to the people who inarguably caused the 2nd wave through bureaucratic bungling of the quarantine of plague ridden visitors.

I think the focus of the discussion should shift from the tit for tat argument on the best way to treat the rona and look at how the poplulation of gulag Melbourne can recover financially, socially and most importantly mentally from what must be a contender for longest lockdown in the world.

Things are so bad here we can't even have a Melbourne Cabal (is best Cabal) to watch the Bledisloe

Hoping the plague numbers continue to drop and we see a return to as normal a life as possible in the next week or so.

All current evidence shows that jurisdictions that have the best health outcomes also have the best economic outcomes. If Dan Andrews hadn't gotten on top of covid-19 then Melbourne's economic outlook would be much worse than it is now.

Also, how do you know that this 2nd wave was caused by "bureaucratic bungling of the quarantine of plague ridden visitors". My understanding is that this was spread by a night manager at Rydges. If our best and most well equipped doctors and nurses catch Covid-19 in hospitals and nursing homes then of course hotel staff will also catch it. I just find it amusing that the people demanding Dan Andrews be sacked for overseeing Victoria's 2nd wave are generally the same people who support Donald Trump, who has proudly overseen a genocidal plague in the USA with 225,000 deaths and counting.

That bolded bit in red does tend to agree with the getting on top of the plague comment, strange to see it mentioned.

The second bolded bit in red confirms your agreement with the bungling by the quaranitine team, they were the ones who put the plague ridden returnees/visitors in the poorly organised (so poorly organised the health minister is gone and there is an official enquiry into the level of bungling/massive cock up) and released the rona into Melbournes population.

Once again I have not referred to sacking Dictator Dan, just looking for accountability from the chap at the top of the political food chain.

Ogre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:27 am That bolded bit does tend to agree with the getting on top of the plague comment, strange to see it mentioned.

The second bolded bit confirms your agreement with the bungling by the quaranitine team, they were the ones who put the plague ridden returnees/visitors in the poorly organised (so poorly organised the health minister is gone and there is an official enquiry into the level of bungling/massive cock up) and released the rona into Melbournes population.

Once again I have not referred to sacking Dictator Dan, just looking for accountability from the chap at the top of the political food chain.

Okay, so we obsess about who was responsible for the outbreak in Melbourne, in the midst of a global pandemic, till we're blue in the face. But will you at least concede that the way Victoria has responded to this outbreak has been remarkable?

Ogre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:27 am

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:26 am

Ogre wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:55 pm

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:28 pm Overseas posters must be laughing at Australia; we have one of the lowest rates of infection or death, and a're one of the only countries in the world to successfully manage a fully blown 2nd wave, yet we want to sack the State Premier responsible for doing so. Meanwhile in the UK, USA, Brazil and India, their leaders are enjoying a surge in support despite failing terribly to manage this virus.

While its inarguable that the 2nd wave in Victoria has been all but squished by the actions of the premier and his government and the (to be read in your best Dwayne Johnson voice) Millions and Millions of people living in Melbourne. Let us not be so hasty in handing out the victory beers to the people who inarguably caused the 2nd wave through bureaucratic bungling of the quarantine of plague ridden visitors.

I think the focus of the discussion should shift from the tit for tat argument on the best way to treat the rona and look at how the poplulation of gulag Melbourne can recover financially, socially and most importantly mentally from what must be a contender for longest lockdown in the world.

Things are so bad here we can't even have a Melbourne Cabal (is best Cabal) to watch the Bledisloe

Hoping the plague numbers continue to drop and we see a return to as normal a life as possible in the next week or so.

All current evidence shows that jurisdictions that have the best health outcomes also have the best economic outcomes. If Dan Andrews hadn't gotten on top of covid-19 then Melbourne's economic outlook would be much worse than it is now.

Also, how do you know that this 2nd wave was caused by "bureaucratic bungling of the quarantine of plague ridden visitors". My understanding is that this was spread by a night manager at Rydges. If our best and most well equipped doctors and nurses catch Covid-19 in hospitals and nursing homes then of course hotel staff will also catch it. I just find it amusing that the people demanding Dan Andrews be sacked for overseeing Victoria's 2nd wave are generally the same people who support Donald Trump, who has proudly overseen a genocidal plague in the USA with 225,000 deaths and counting.

That bolded bit in red does tend to agree with the getting on top of the plague comment, strange to see it mentioned.

The second bolded bit in red confirms your agreement with the bungling by the quaranitine team, they were the ones who put the plague ridden returnees/visitors in the poorly organised (so poorly organised the health minister is gone and there is an official enquiry into the level of bungling/massive cock up) and released the rona into Melbournes population.

Once again I have not referred to sacking Dictator Dan, just looking for accountability from the chap at the top of the political food chain.

Accountability? Well that won't look good on his nomination for knighthood for single handedly saving all of Victoria from Covid, so we won't be going down that path.[/AC Mode]

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:30 am

Ogre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:27 am That bolded bit does tend to agree with the getting on top of the plague comment, strange to see it mentioned.

The second bolded bit confirms your agreement with the bungling by the quaranitine team, they were the ones who put the plague ridden returnees/visitors in the poorly organised (so poorly organised the health minister is gone and there is an official enquiry into the level of bungling/massive cock up) and released the rona into Melbournes population.

Once again I have not referred to sacking Dictator Dan, just looking for accountability from the chap at the top of the political food chain.

Okay, so we obsess about who was responsible for the outbreak in Melbourne, in the midst of a global pandemic, till we're blue in the face. But will you at least concede that the way Victoria has responded to this outbreak has been remarkable?

Already agreed with how well the response from Dictator Dan has turned around a potentially disasterous outcome to an almost manageable level, in fact i've lived through it. But will you acknowledge that there needs to be political accountability for the situation occuring in the first place? Which to me means that ultimate accountability rests with Dan Andrews?

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:30 am

Ogre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:27 am That bolded bit does tend to agree with the getting on top of the plague comment, strange to see it mentioned.

The second bolded bit confirms your agreement with the bungling by the quaranitine team, they were the ones who put the plague ridden returnees/visitors in the poorly organised (so poorly organised the health minister is gone and there is an official enquiry into the level of bungling/massive cock up) and released the rona into Melbournes population.

Once again I have not referred to sacking Dictator Dan, just looking for accountability from the chap at the top of the political food chain.

Okay, so we obsess about who was responsible for the outbreak in Melbourne, in the midst of a global pandemic, till we're blue in the face. But will you at least concede that the way Victoria has responded to this outbreak has been remarkable?

800 dead and hundreds of thousands now unemployed, all caused by something that every other state has prevented through good management and sound decision making. Yet you want to gloss over it all. In fact you prefer to praise those in charge. Many of those same people that you are praising have been caught out lying to the independent commission that is reviewing what happened?

Several of those in charge have since quit, yet you would happily re-employ them because as you claim they have done such a great job?

Clogs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:39 am

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:30 am

Ogre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:27 am That bolded bit does tend to agree with the getting on top of the plague comment, strange to see it mentioned.

The second bolded bit confirms your agreement with the bungling by the quaranitine team, they were the ones who put the plague ridden returnees/visitors in the poorly organised (so poorly organised the health minister is gone and there is an official enquiry into the level of bungling/massive cock up) and released the rona into Melbournes population.

Once again I have not referred to sacking Dictator Dan, just looking for accountability from the chap at the top of the political food chain.

Okay, so we obsess about who was responsible for the outbreak in Melbourne, in the midst of a global pandemic, till we're blue in the face. But will you at least concede that the way Victoria has responded to this outbreak has been remarkable?

800 dead and hundreds of thousands now unemployed, all caused by something that every other state has prevented through good management and sound decision making. Yet you want to gloss over it all. In fact you prefer to praise those in charge. Many of those same people that you are praising have been caught out lying to the independent commission that is reviewing what happened?

Several of those in charge have since quit, yet you would happily re-employ them because as you claim they have done such a great job?

QLD has had six deaths and NSW has had 60. Using your rational Beregjekilan should be charged with murder because she hasn't done as well as Palascczuk? Or will we concede that your argument is a stupid one and you only want ALP leaders to be held to account because you are a raging, right wing nutjob? In a global, once in a century pandemic people will get sick, and demanding that leaders be charged with murder anytime someone dies during a pandemic is childish. The fact that you adore Donald Trump makes your calls for Andrews to be sacked look even worse.

What's really sad is that the better the covid-19 data gets in Victoria, the angrier and more upset Clogs gets.

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:54 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:39 am

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:30 am

Ogre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:27 am That bolded bit does tend to agree with the getting on top of the plague comment, strange to see it mentioned.

The second bolded bit confirms your agreement with the bungling by the quaranitine team, they were the ones who put the plague ridden returnees/visitors in the poorly organised (so poorly organised the health minister is gone and there is an official enquiry into the level of bungling/massive cock up) and released the rona into Melbournes population.

Once again I have not referred to sacking Dictator Dan, just looking for accountability from the chap at the top of the political food chain.

Okay, so we obsess about who was responsible for the outbreak in Melbourne, in the midst of a global pandemic, till we're blue in the face. But will you at least concede that the way Victoria has responded to this outbreak has been remarkable?

800 dead and hundreds of thousands now unemployed, all caused by something that every other state has prevented through good management and sound decision making. Yet you want to gloss over it all. In fact you prefer to praise those in charge. Many of those same people that you are praising have been caught out lying to the independent commission that is reviewing what happened?

Several of those in charge have since quit, yet you would happily re-employ them because as you claim they have done such a great job?

QLD has had six deaths and NSW has had 60. Using your rational Beregjekilan should be charged with murder because she hasn't done as well as Palascczuk? Or will we concede that your argument is a stupid one and you only want ALP leaders to be held to account because you are a raging, right wing nutjob? In a global, once in a century pandemic people will get sick, and demanding that leaders be charged with murder anytime someone dies during a pandemic is childish. The fact that you adore Donald Trump makes your calls for Andrews to be sacked look even worse.

ok, would you still defend him if it were a goat? Perhaps even an under age goat? You probably would.

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:55 am What's really sad is that the better the covid-19 data gets in Victoria, the angrier and more upset Clogs gets.

Over 800 deaths and climbing isn't better. That Covid data is getting worse. No matter how much you want to gloss over those numbers and pretend like they haven't happened.

I like how in AC's mind:
1. Dan gets the credit for 'leadership of the greatest COVID fightback the earth has ever seen' (trademark), but none of the accountability for the leadership of overseeing +800 deaths (BTW - you don't seem to understand the difference between accountability and murder in your replies - you should probably brush up on that).
2. Dan get's compared to Anna, when frankly Anna would be horrified by the comparison because she actually led her state well throughout the pandemic, not just in the second half when your 800 deaths down.

kiwigreg369 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:19 am I like how in AC's mind:
1. Dan gets the credit for 'leadership of the greatest COVID fightback the earth has ever seen' (trademark), but none of the accountability for the leadership of overseeing +800 deaths (BTW - you don't seem to understand the difference between accountability and murder in your replies - you should probably brush up on that).
2. Dan get's compared to Anna, when frankly Anna would be horrified by the comparison because she actually led her state well throughout the pandemic, not just in the second half when your 800 deaths down.

Subtlety, nuance, empathy and objectivity.







None of these words can be associated with AC.

Isnt it over 50% of Victoria deaths directly attributed to Federal Government run aged care homes, is any blame apportioned to the Fed government or does Andrews wear that as well? Just asking out of curiosity?

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:28 pm Overseas posters must be laughing at Australia; we have one of the lowest rates of infection or death, and a're one of the only countries in the world to successfully manage a fully blown 2nd wave, yet we want to sack the State Premier responsible for doing so. Meanwhile in the UK, USA, Brazil and India, their leaders are enjoying a surge in support despite failing terribly to manage this virus.

I don't know if inserting your head into your arse is an instinctive response to anything said by "Overseas posters" but it's worth looking into.

trapper wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:25 am Isnt it over 50% of Victoria deaths directly attributed to Federal Government run aged care homes, is any blame apportioned to the Fed government or does Andrews wear that as well? Just asking out of curiosity?

My understanding, which may be wrong, is that the Federal government runs the aged care homes (poorly) but the initial infection was from someone who contracted the rona from the quarantine debacle. It all seems to come back to not being able to organise a piss up in a brewery and then political side steps and throwing someone under the bus rather than accepting what happened, fixing it then allocating accountability.

There is also evidence that the strains of plague can in almost all cases can be directly traced back to the quarantine hotel (note evidence means an article I read and can't remember where so happy for experts to provide counter points and corrections)

kiwigreg369 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:19 am I like how in AC's mind:
1. Dan gets the credit for 'leadership of the greatest COVID fightback the earth has ever seen' (trademark), but none of the accountability for the leadership of overseeing +800 deaths (BTW - you don't seem to understand the difference between accountability and murder in your replies - you should probably brush up on that).
2. Dan get's compared to Anna, when frankly Anna would be horrified by the comparison because she actually led her state well throughout the pandemic, not just in the second half when your 800 deaths down.

Posters have demanded Dan be charged with murder. Of course it's a crazy demand, but the people calling for Andrews to be sacked are crazy.

Ogre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:44 am My understanding, which may be wrong, is that the Federal government runs the aged care homes (poorly) but the initial infection was from someone who contracted the rona from the quarantine debacle.

So using your argument it's not actually Dan's fault, it's the Mayor of Wuhan who should be sacked, because that was the "initial infection"?

trapper wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:25 am Isnt it over 50% of Victoria deaths directly attributed to Federal Government run aged care homes, is any blame apportioned to the Fed government or does Andrews wear that as well? Just asking out of curiosity?

Take a look at this graphic and then see if you can work it out:

Ogre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:44 am

trapper wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:25 am Isnt it over 50% of Victoria deaths directly attributed to Federal Government run aged care homes, is any blame apportioned to the Fed government or does Andrews wear that as well? Just asking out of curiosity?

My understanding, which may be wrong, is that the Federal government runs the aged care homes (poorly) but the initial infection was from someone who contracted the rona from the quarantine debacle. It all seems to come back to not being able to organise a piss up in a brewery and then political side steps and throwing someone under the bus rather than accepting what happened, fixing it then allocating accountability.

There is also evidence that the strains of plague can in almost all cases can be directly traced back to the quarantine hotel (note evidence means an article I read and can't remember where so happy for experts to provide counter points and corrections)

Ok, so it’s all Dans fault with no need to hold the Fed Government to account for the deaths in their own facilities. Thanks for clearing that up.

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:17 am

Ogre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:44 am My understanding, which may be wrong, is that the Federal government runs the aged care homes (poorly) but the initial infection was from someone who contracted the rona from the quarantine debacle.

So using your argument it's not actually Dan's fault, it's the Mayor of Wuhan who should be sacked, because that was the "initial infection"?

Not even close. My clearly stated (repeatedly) argument is that ultimate accountability for the 2nd wave in Victoria rests with the premier. His government ran the quarantine facility that was so poorly managed the plague escaped and caused all the associated issues. That should have been pretty damn clear by now, hopefully this is just a cheeky trolling attempt by you rather than a genunine inability to understand my point.

trapper wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:29 am

Ogre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:44 am

trapper wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:25 am Isnt it over 50% of Victoria deaths directly attributed to Federal Government run aged care homes, is any blame apportioned to the Fed government or does Andrews wear that as well? Just asking out of curiosity?

My understanding, which may be wrong, is that the Federal government runs the aged care homes (poorly) but the initial infection was from someone who contracted the rona from the quarantine debacle. It all seems to come back to not being able to organise a piss up in a brewery and then political side steps and throwing someone under the bus rather than accepting what happened, fixing it then allocating accountability.

There is also evidence that the strains of plague can in almost all cases can be directly traced back to the quarantine hotel (note evidence means an article I read and can't remember where so happy for experts to provide counter points and corrections)

Ok, so it’s all Dans fault with no need to hold the Fed Government to account for the deaths in their own facilities. Thanks for clearing that up.

Nope. There it is not all Dictator Dans fault. Accountability by the truckload though.

Have you and AC decieded to have a wee troll love in on the fred?

Ogre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:44 am

trapper wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:25 am Isnt it over 50% of Victoria deaths directly attributed to Federal Government run aged care homes, is any blame apportioned to the Fed government or does Andrews wear that as well? Just asking out of curiosity?

My understanding, which may be wrong, is that the Federal government runs the aged care homes (poorly) but the initial infection was from someone who contracted the rona from the quarantine debacle. It all seems to come back to not being able to organise a piss up in a brewery and then political side steps and throwing someone under the bus rather than accepting what happened, fixing it then allocating accountability.

There is also evidence that the strains of plague can in almost all cases can be directly traced back to the quarantine hotel (note evidence means an article I read and can't remember where so happy for experts to provide counter points and corrections)

Its a little more complex than that as most things are. As I understand it, quarantine is a federal responsibility through the health ministry. The feds palmed this off to the states with comparatively little time to implement (I had read it was a few days but could be wrong). The states implemented, and a number of states engaged private security guards. Vic was one. NSW was another. The Vic version, the company engaged palmed it on to subbies who palmed it on to subbies, all taking a cut, until the bloke actually hired got some loose change found down the back of the sofa. They then weren't adequately trained and relented when people complained about being locked away. Dan Andrew's issue is that he and the leadership team looked away once they engaged the contractor. There was no oversight over that contractor. Ultimately that should filter to Dan Andrews (but then it could just as much filter to the federal health minister) as the overall head - CEOs are often rolled for things like this and rightly so. But given the circumstances I am a little more lenient. Its a once in a generation pandemic and his focus was needed in many many places. They probably thought "well, that issue is closed, next" which is why most of the reactions from Dand Andrews and Brett Sutton is "I didnt realise that was happening." Good leaders are across it in normal times, these arent normal times.

I am a little lost on Peta Credlin's campaign to pin who knew what on the decision for private security guards. Its not a gotcha item, many states did it, and its a perfectly reasonable solution.

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:15 am

Posters have demanded Dan be charged with murder. Of course it's a crazy demand, but the people calling for Andrews to be sacked are crazy.

Which posters?

Ogre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:24 am

trapper wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:29 am

Ogre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:44 am

trapper wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:25 am Isnt it over 50% of Victoria deaths directly attributed to Federal Government run aged care homes, is any blame apportioned to the Fed government or does Andrews wear that as well? Just asking out of curiosity?

My understanding, which may be wrong, is that the Federal government runs the aged care homes (poorly) but the initial infection was from someone who contracted the rona from the quarantine debacle. It all seems to come back to not being able to organise a piss up in a brewery and then political side steps and throwing someone under the bus rather than accepting what happened, fixing it then allocating accountability.

There is also evidence that the strains of plague can in almost all cases can be directly traced back to the quarantine hotel (note evidence means an article I read and can't remember where so happy for experts to provide counter points and corrections)

Ok, so it’s all Dans fault with no need to hold the Fed Government to account for the deaths in their own facilities. Thanks for clearing that up.

Nope. There it is not all Dictator Dans fault. Accountability by the truckload though.

Have you and AC decieded to have a wee troll love in on the fred?

Not at all, I find it interesting that Andrews has to be held to account but apparently Colbeck and the Morrison government do not, from what I can tell, they haven’t even been in the conversation in regards to accountability on this thread. Carry on.

What on earth is Clogs going to harp on about after the lockdown?

Lots of whataboutery - always the way when something horrific like this occurs.

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:06 am What on earth is Clogs going to harp on about after the lockdown?

Lots of whataboutery - always the way when something horrific like this occurs.

I would put my money on how shit the sharks are or how gaylords isn't available for indoor dining? Maybe a sweepstakes to see who gets closer. The real question is which fred is AC going balls deep on trolling someone.

Ogre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:29 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:06 am What on earth is Clogs going to harp on about after the lockdown?

Lots of whataboutery - always the way when something horrific like this occurs.

I would put my money on how shit the sharks are or how gaylords isn't available for indoor dining? Maybe a sweepstakes to see who gets closer. The real question is which fred is AC going balls deep on trolling someone.

Gaylords is closed mate. Proper closed, not Covid closed.
I walked past it before lockdown and nearly cried.

Farva wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:57 am

Ogre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:29 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:06 am What on earth is Clogs going to harp on about after the lockdown?

Lots of whataboutery - always the way when something horrific like this occurs.

I would put my money on how shit the sharks are or how gaylords isn't available for indoor dining? Maybe a sweepstakes to see who gets closer. The real question is which fred is AC going balls deep on trolling someone.

Gaylords is closed mate. Proper closed, not Covid closed.
I walked past it before lockdown and nearly cried.

Will this year not stop taking all that is beloved in the world.

Next thing you know the bokke will pull out of the rugby championship cos they are scared . . .

Farva wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:57 am

Ogre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:29 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:06 am What on earth is Clogs going to harp on about after the lockdown?

Lots of whataboutery - always the way when something horrific like this occurs.

I would put my money on how shit the sharks are or how gaylords isn't available for indoor dining? Maybe a sweepstakes to see who gets closer. The real question is which fred is AC going balls deep on trolling someone.

Gaylords is closed mate. Proper closed, not Covid closed.
I walked past it before lockdown and nearly cried.

I have caballed there

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:06 am What on earth is Clogs going to harp on about after the lockdown?

Lots of whataboutery - always the way when something horrific like this occurs.

I will find something. Most likely the haka.

Many proud of your commitment

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:29 am

Farva wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:57 am

Ogre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:29 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:06 am What on earth is Clogs going to harp on about after the lockdown?

Lots of whataboutery - always the way when something horrific like this occurs.

I would put my money on how shit the sharks are or how gaylords isn't available for indoor dining? Maybe a sweepstakes to see who gets closer. The real question is which fred is AC going balls deep on trolling someone.

Gaylords is closed mate. Proper closed, not Covid closed.
I walked past it before lockdown and nearly cried.

I have caballed there

You, the Melbourne Cabal is best Cabal (several times) HKCockjock? and several other interstate visitors too (Waratah? Some other bloke from NSW that was cracking on to Dumbledore?)

Clogs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:32 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:06 am What on earth is Clogs going to harp on about after the lockdown?

Lots of whataboutery - always the way when something horrific like this occurs.

I will find something. Most likely the haka.

Its important to find things like this that will bring us together in these unprecedented times. If you want to launch into a diatribe about silly dances, Ill offer my full support.

I brought several ring ins from work.

A Kiwi, a PoM and an Aussie