Planet Rugby Forum

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:25 am**

Ms Coate said the government’s decision-making process was at odds with the Westminster system principles of responsible government, made without proper analysis or clear rationale.

And given no one knew who made the decision, there was an obvious risk no one understood they were responsible for changing if it was wrong.

“That a decision of such significance for a government program, which ultimately involved the expenditure of tens of millions of dollars and the employment of thousands of people, had neither a responsible minister nor a transparent rationale for why that course was adopted, plainly does not seem to accord with those principles,” she said.

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:14 am**

Ellafan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:22 am
The people of Victoria should understand, with clarity, how it was that such a decision to spend millions of dollars of public money came about. The people should be able to be satisfied that the action to proceed in this way was a considered one that addressed the benefits, risks and options available in arriving at such a decision. There was no evidence that any such considered process occurred, either on 27 March 2020 or in the days and weeks that followed, until the outbreaks occurred.
This is a serious failure of governmental processes and oversight. Dan Andrews was not on top of this decision making process, nor had he considered any option other than sheepishly doing what the unions wanted.

If he is truly accountable, he should re-instate Mikalos, and fall on his sword.

Yesterday you were crying because you said posters were politicising the pandemic. Today you write this beauty of a post. Hypocrisy has a new name!

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:16 am**

Clogs wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:25 am
Ms Coate said the government’s decision-making process was at odds with the Westminster system principles of responsible government, made without proper analysis or clear rationale.

And given no one knew who made the decision, there was an obvious risk no one understood they were responsible for changing if it was wrong.

“That a decision of such significance for a government program, which ultimately involved the expenditure of tens of millions of dollars and the employment of thousands of people, had neither a responsible minister nor a transparent rationale for why that course was adopted, plainly does not seem to accord with those principles,” she said.

The reason why there was no Minister responsible is because international quarantine had previously been the sole responsibility of the Commonwealth. Scott Morrison shamefully abdicated this task, and gave the states 36 hours to set up a HQ framework from scratch. From memory he was on holiday with Jen and the girls at the time.

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:31 am**

Ellafan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:22 am
The people of Victoria should understand, with clarity, how it was that such a decision to spend millions of dollars of public money came about. The people should be able to be satisfied that the action to proceed in this way was a considered one that addressed the benefits, risks and options available in arriving at such a decision. There was no evidence that any such considered process occurred, either on 27 March 2020 or in the days and weeks that followed, until the outbreaks occurred.
This is a serious failure of governmental processes and oversight. Dan Andrews was not on top of this decision making process, nor had he considered any option other than sheepishly doing what the unions wanted.

If he is truly accountable, he should re-instate Mikalos, and fall on his sword.

What exactly is wrong with using private security? You are holding this up as a smoking gun. From my position its absolutely not.
I think it the right move. It negates the risk of the role being manipulated by government leaders or influential people. It also indemnifies the government against failure.
In this instance, the real culprit is the private security firms who failed. We should be chasing them. Why there isnt a civil lawsuit from the Vic Government is beyond me.

Anyway, private security is the solution across much of Australia for hotel quarantine. Arguing against it makes no sense.

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:38 am**

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:31 am
Ellafan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:22 am
The people of Victoria should understand, with clarity, how it was that such a decision to spend millions of dollars of public money came about. The people should be able to be satisfied that the action to proceed in this way was a considered one that addressed the benefits, risks and options available in arriving at such a decision. There was no evidence that any such considered process occurred, either on 27 March 2020 or in the days and weeks that followed, until the outbreaks occurred.
This is a serious failure of governmental processes and oversight. Dan Andrews was not on top of this decision making process, nor had he considered any option other than sheepishly doing what the unions wanted.

If he is truly accountable, he should re-instate Mikalos, and fall on his sword.
What exactly is wrong with using private security? You are holding this up as a smoking gun. From my position its absolutely not.
I think it the right move. It negates the risk of the role being manipulated by government leaders or influential people. It also indemnifies the government against failure.
In this instance, the real culprit is the private security firms who failed. We should be chasing them. Why there isnt a civil lawsuit from the Vic Government is beyond me.

Anyway, private security is the solution across much of Australia for hotel quarantine. Arguing against it makes no sense.

3600 private security guards work in the NSW HQ program and 1800 work in QLD's program. They are the backbone of both state's hotel quarantine frameworks.

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:58 am**

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:31 am
Ellafan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:22 am
The people of Victoria should understand, with clarity, how it was that such a decision to spend millions of dollars of public money came about. The people should be able to be satisfied that the action to proceed in this way was a considered one that addressed the benefits, risks and options available in arriving at such a decision. There was no evidence that any such considered process occurred, either on 27 March 2020 or in the days and weeks that followed, until the outbreaks occurred.
This is a serious failure of governmental processes and oversight. Dan Andrews was not on top of this decision making process, nor had he considered any option other than sheepishly doing what the unions wanted.

If he is truly accountable, he should re-instate Mikalos, and fall on his sword.
What exactly is wrong with using private security? You are holding this up as a smoking gun. From my position its absolutely not.
I think it the right move. It negates the risk of the role being manipulated by government leaders or influential people. It also indemnifies the government against failure.
In this instance, the real culprit is the private security firms who failed. We should be chasing them. Why there isnt a civil lawsuit from the Vic Government is beyond me.

Anyway, private security is the solution across much of Australia for hotel quarantine. Arguing against it makes no sense.

Becoz you are trying to argue as if there was a decision made after a proper consideration process, and -

(a) There was no consideration at all. Apparently the decision just made itself, within 27 minutes of the national cabinet meeting on 27 March. (I think the people responsible lied to the enquiry about this - how could no-one make the decison to spend $millions??).

(b) It was a product of the risk of governmental policy and decisons being determined by the trade unions instead of the elected officials. Public servants do not decide policy, they just implement it. Trade Union officials should not tell the elected government what to do - especially the corrupt CFMEU.

(c) purging poor blameless Jenny Mikalos as a sacrificial lamb was a disgraceful act by Dictator Dan. Shame Dan, shame.

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:06 am**

Ellafan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:58 am
Farva wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:31 am
Ellafan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:22 am
The people of Victoria should understand, with clarity, how it was that such a decision to spend millions of dollars of public money came about. The people should be able to be satisfied that the action to proceed in this way was a considered one that addressed the benefits, risks and options available in arriving at such a decision. There was no evidence that any such considered process occurred, either on 27 March 2020 or in the days and weeks that followed, until the outbreaks occurred.
This is a serious failure of governmental processes and oversight. Dan Andrews was not on top of this decision making process, nor had he considered any option other than sheepishly doing what the unions wanted.

If he is truly accountable, he should re-instate Mikalos, and fall on his sword.
What exactly is wrong with using private security? You are holding this up as a smoking gun. From my position its absolutely not.
I think it the right move. It negates the risk of the role being manipulated by government leaders or influential people. It also indemnifies the government against failure.
In this instance, the real culprit is the private security firms who failed. We should be chasing them. Why there isnt a civil lawsuit from the Vic Government is beyond me.

Anyway, private security is the solution across much of Australia for hotel quarantine. Arguing against it makes no sense.
Becoz you are trying to argue as if there was a decision made after a proper consideration process, and -

(a) There was no consideration at all. Apparently the decision just made itself, within 27 minutes of the national cabinet meeting on 27 March. (I think the people responsible lied to the enquiry about this - how could no-one make the decison to spend $millions??).

(b) It was a product of the risk of governmental policy and decisons being determined by the trade unions instead of the elected officials. Public servants do not decide policy, they just implement it. Trade Union officials should not tell the elected government what to do - especially the corrupt CFMEU.

(c) purging poor blameless Jenny Mikalos as a sacrificial lamb was a disgraceful act by Dictator Dan. Shame Dan, shame.

Trade Unions? Dictator Dan? Just yesterday you attacked a poster for referring to a journalist as a "News Ltd stooge", and yet today you're coming up with shit like this?

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:06 am**

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:38 am
3600 private security guards work in the NSW HQ program and 1800 work in QLD's program. They are the backbone of both state's hotel quarantine frameworks.

Properly instructed personnel, who, for example, manage to restrain themselves from bonking the quarantinees.

If you read the evidence statements I linked here a while back, you would know that the word went out from Dan's offsider to a labour party mate before the national cabinet meeting finished, who immediately emailed his casual pub/concert bouncers to put the 'roids down and do a quick covid online instruction module that took all of 10 minutes... so he could claim to have trained staff & get a contract from the government.

This was just snouts in the trough stuff, and the Victorian, and National , economies lost $billons because of it.

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:08 am**

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:06 am yet today you're coming up with shit like this?

I am just borrowing some lines from the AC school of debating technique.

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:09 am**

Ellafan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:06 am
Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:38 am
3600 private security guards work in the NSW HQ program and 1800 work in QLD's program. They are the backbone of both state's hotel quarantine frameworks.
Properly instructed personnel, who, for example, manage to restrain themselves from bonking the quarantinees.

If you read the evidence statements I linked here a while back, you would know that the word went out from Dan's offsider to a labour party mate before the national cabinet meeting finished, who immediately emailed his casual pub/concert bouncers to put the 'roids down and do a quick covid online instruction module that took all of 10 minutes... so he could claim to have trained staff & get a contract from the government.

This was just snouts in the trough stuff, and the Victorian, and National , economies lost $billons because of it.

Are you okay? You're posting is utterly unhinged today. The "bonking" security guards lie was exposed as a News Ltd-created myth months ago. Yet here you are today still perpetuating it. Are you a conspiracy theorist lunatic?

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:11 am**

Ellafan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:08 am
Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:06 am yet today you're coming up with shit like this?
I am just borrowing some lines from the AC school of debating technique.

I'm happy for you to be as partisan as you like. Just don't cry so much when posters do the same

You tearfully demanded that posters don't "politicise a pandemic" when your beloved PM and Federal government have spent the entire year politicising this pandemic.

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:19 am**

If you read the evidence statements I linked here a while back, you would know that the word went out from Dan's offsider to a labour party mate before the national cabinet meeting finished,

I guess that is one of those inconvenient facts that you won't/can't address.

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:21 am**

Ellafan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:58 am
Farva wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:31 am
Ellafan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:22 am
The people of Victoria should understand, with clarity, how it was that such a decision to spend millions of dollars of public money came about. The people should be able to be satisfied that the action to proceed in this way was a considered one that addressed the benefits, risks and options available in arriving at such a decision. There was no evidence that any such considered process occurred, either on 27 March 2020 or in the days and weeks that followed, until the outbreaks occurred.
This is a serious failure of governmental processes and oversight. Dan Andrews was not on top of this decision making process, nor had he considered any option other than sheepishly doing what the unions wanted.

If he is truly accountable, he should re-instate Mikalos, and fall on his sword.
What exactly is wrong with using private security? You are holding this up as a smoking gun. From my position its absolutely not.
I think it the right move. It negates the risk of the role being manipulated by government leaders or influential people. It also indemnifies the government against failure.
In this instance, the real culprit is the private security firms who failed. We should be chasing them. Why there isnt a civil lawsuit from the Vic Government is beyond me.

Anyway, private security is the solution across much of Australia for hotel quarantine. Arguing against it makes no sense.
Becoz you are trying to argue as if there was a decision made after a proper consideration process, and -

(a) There was no consideration at all. Apparently the decision just made itself, within 27 minutes of the national cabinet meeting on 27 March. (I think the people responsible lied to the enquiry about this - how could no-one make the decison to spend $millions??).

(b) It was a product of the risk of governmental policy and decisons being determined by the trade unions instead of the elected officials. Public servants do not decide policy, they just implement it. Trade Union officials should not tell the elected government what to do - especially the corrupt CFMEU.

(c) purging poor blameless Jenny Mikalos as a sacrificial lamb was a disgraceful act by Dictator Dan. Shame Dan, shame.

Is there anything that says the CFMEU were involved at all?
And government departments are exactly there to make the decisions on how to spend money.
The policy here is to require hotel quarantine. That was decided by the government. The logistics are then decided by the heads of department, who, incidentally, are politically neutral and the same people will be there before and after elections.

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:24 am**

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:21 am Is there anything that says the CFMEU were involved at all?

Nope, the only person mentioning the CFMEU is Sluggy.

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:30 am**

Given 800 people died i'd say AC & Ella looks like proper dicks taking this type of approach - thinking they're some form of internet debating gaints.

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:33 am**

kiwigreg369 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:30 am Given 800 people died i'd say AC & Ella looks like proper dicks taking this type of approach - thinking they're some form of internet debating gaints.

Strange post. Ella Fan is the one going on about the CFMEU and bonking security guards. I'm simply discussing the content of the actual report that was delivered today.

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:39 am**

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:33 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:30 am Given 800 people died i'd say AC & Ella looks like proper dicks taking this type of approach - thinking they're some form of internet debating gaints.
Strange post. Ella Fan is the one going on about the CFMEU and bonking security guards. I'm simply discussing the content of the actual report that was delivered today.

800 people ... and that's your reply. You both being cnuts and taking views on what you want from the report and general press.

You're both being dicks.

800 people.

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:40 am**

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:24 am
Farva wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:21 am Is there anything that says the CFMEU were involved at all?
Nope, the only person mentioning the CFMEU is Sluggy.

Mate, I'm just adopting your methods.

Consider it a form of homage.

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:48 am**

Ellafan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:40 am
Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:24 am
Farva wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:21 am Is there anything that says the CFMEU were involved at all?
Nope, the only person mentioning the CFMEU is Sluggy.
Mate, I'm just adopting your methods.

Consider it a form of homage.

It's great mate, keep it up. Just watched the Victorian Police Shadow Spokesperson give a lengthy interview on Sky News and whist he was batshit crazy, even he didn't mention the CFMEU or bonking bouncers. You've gone next level, and I like it. We haven't had a decent RWNJ on this forum since Seneca left. Mighty Reds tries but he doesn't post enough and he's also too weird to get any cut-through.

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:54 am**

kiwigreg369 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:39 am
Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:33 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:30 am Given 800 people died i'd say AC & Ella looks like proper dicks taking this type of approach - thinking they're some form of internet debating gaints.
Strange post. Ella Fan is the one going on about the CFMEU and bonking security guards. I'm simply discussing the content of the actual report that was delivered today.
800 people ... and that's your reply. You both being cnuts and taking views on what you want from the report and general press.

You're both being dicks.

800 people.

I'm just following AC's lead when it comes to reading reports.

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:39 pm**

1 Victorian now infected from this Sydney clvsterfvck.

And so it begins.

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:35 am**

I have it on good authority that Dan is about to re-introduce face masks at all times everywhere. This will happen on the 24th of December midnight. He is also considering re-introducing the ring of steel around Melbourne but he needed more ADF support. From Boxing Day Victoria Police will have additional powers to arrest and detain for testing any vehicle with a NSW registration. The only exception to this rule will be NSW registered Great Wall vehicles. They are exempt.

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:52 am**

Possibly the best thing to come out of Covid

https://youtu.be/UONGxcKJ5gY

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:35 am**

Farva wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:52 am Possibly the best thing to come out of Covid

https://youtu.be/UONGxcKJ5gY

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:13 pm**

Legendary

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:45 pm**

0 cases in the last 24 hours in Melbourne. That's pleasing.

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:32 pm**

Interesting to find out that during the height of Victoria's 2nd wave, more than half of the top 50 tweeters for #DictatorDan and #DanLiedPeopleDied were fake accounts. 34 per cent for #IStandWithDan were also fake accounts. This just shows how a small number of hyper-partisan individuals can set the tone for discourse on platforms like twitter.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/202 ... s/13006404

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:34 pm**

Not really surprising

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:37 pm**

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:34 pm Not really surprising

I'm a bit surprised tbh. Over 50% of accounts who used the two biggest anti Dan Andrews hashtags were fake?! That's massive. Especially as the big commercial media houses all use 'trending' twitter data to frame their stories and op-eds. Trending twitter data is taken at face value as being representative of the mood of the populace.

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:39 pm**

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:32 pm Interesting to find out that during the height of Victoria's 2nd wave, more than half of the top 50 tweeters for #DictatorDan and #DanLiedPeopleDied were fake accounts. 34 per cent for #IStandWithDan were also fake accounts. This just shows how a small number of hyper-partisan individuals can set the tone for discourse on platforms like the planetrugby forum.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/202 ... s/13006404

Fixed.

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:42 pm**

Clogs wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:39 pm
Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:32 pm Interesting to find out that during the height of Victoria's 2nd wave, more than half of the top 50 tweeters for #DictatorDan and #DanLiedPeopleDied were fake accounts. 34 per cent for #IStandWithDan were also fake accounts. This just shows how a small number of hyper-partisan individuals can set the tone for discourse on platforms like the planetrugby forum.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/202 ... s/13006404
Fixed.

I guess the gigantic difference is that Nine media, Seven and News Ltd aren't framing their articles and op-eds around the popular opinion on Planet Rugby. Are they?

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:47 pm**

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:37 pm
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:34 pm Not really surprising
I'm a bit surprised tbh. Over 50% of accounts who used the two biggest anti Dan Andrews hashtags were fake?! That's massive. Especially as the big commercial media houses all use 'trending' twitter data to frame their stories and op-eds. Trending twitter data is taken at face value as being representative of the mood of the populace.

Politics has always been dirty and the conservative side love to go dirtier.

It's relatively cheap to do and has a massive impact

Posted: **Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:55 pm**

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:47 pm
Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:37 pm
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:34 pm Not really surprising
I'm a bit surprised tbh. Over 50% of accounts who used the two biggest anti Dan Andrews hashtags were fake?! That's massive. Especially as the big commercial media houses all use 'trending' twitter data to frame their stories and op-eds. Trending twitter data is taken at face value as being representative of the mood of the populace.
Politics has always been dirty and the conservative side love to go dirtier.

It's relatively cheap to do and has a massive impact

Being a paid twitter bot would be a random way to make a living. I wonder how they do it, do they manually make posts on individual accounts or simply run a mail-merge type setup so they can duplicate posts across a stack of fake twitter accounts? I wonder how many active accounts they need to have going at any one time to meet their KPI's? You'd think it would have to be a lot?

The twitter pressure on Dan Andrews turned into media pressure, and could have resulted in the Premier resigning. Twitter bots have a massive amount of power and influence.

Posted: **Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:03 am**

A lot of them are automatic - set and forget

Posted: **Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:38 am**

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:42 pm
Clogs wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:39 pm
Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:32 pm Interesting to find out that during the height of Victoria's 2nd wave, more than half of the top 50 tweeters for #DictatorDan and #DanLiedPeopleDied were fake accounts. 34 per cent for #IStandWithDan were also fake accounts. This just shows how a small number of hyper-partisan individuals can set the tone for discourse on platforms like the planetrugby forum.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/202 ... s/13006404
Fixed.
I guess the gigantic difference is that Nine media, Seven and News Ltd aren't framing their articles and op-eds around the popular opinion on Planet Rugby. Are they?

Who knows? From what I have read on here recently it wouldn't surprise me if the CCP are monitoring this to ensure the appropriate messages are being delivered...

Posted: **Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:39 am**

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:03 am A lot of them are automatic - set and forget

That would explain santa's posting on this forum.

Posted: **Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:24 am**

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:39 am
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:03 am A lot of them are automatic - set and forget
That would explain santa's posting on this forum.

Posted: **Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:26 am**

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:39 am
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:03 am A lot of them are automatic - set and forget
That would explain santa's posting on this forum.

Posted: **Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:09 am**

Well done Victoria. 23,000 tests is also great when you consider they've had one case of community transmission in just under two months.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:03 am**

Here we go again. 3 new cases. Breaking news.

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