Planet Rugby Forum

Fat Old Git wrote:

grievous wrote:Kiwis trolling Australia on covid, its really reached peak Kiwi in here.

Mittonbird is peak kiwi? That's a very low peak.

Grievous is as one eyed as Mutton though the bitterness stops just short of descending into the depths Mutton has the pathological narcissistic sociopath.

Could there be a more insulting aspersion to cast over kiwi posters than to announce Mutton as peak Kiwi.

Grievous is out of line and should apologise immediately.

jdogscoop wrote:

• NZ style lockdown still not the right fit says Sutton
  
  By Tom Cowie
  
  The idea of introducing a "New Zealand-style" hard lockdown in Victoria has been a repeated question at the daily briefings.
  
  Chief Health Officer Professor Brett Sutton has consistently said it wouldn't necessarily get the same results in Victoria.
  
  "It was different circumstances at a different time," he says.
  
  "We've got a lot more community transmission, bigger numbers."

He needs to change his tune. It's a fuck up down there right now:

• Victoria's coronavirus rules broken by one in four supposed to be self-isolating
  
  Emily Olle 7NEWS
  Updated: 31 July 2020 10:43 am
  
  The Victorian premier has expressed his dismay after it was revealed that one in four people diagnosed with COVID-19 were not at home when the Australian Defence Force (ADF) came knocking.
  
  The state recorded 627 new cases on Friday, its second-highest daily increase since the pandemic began.
  
  Thirty four teams of ADF personnel have been attending the homes of people who did not pick up the phone when the Department of Health and Human Services called.
  
  On Friday, Premier Daniel Andrews revealed that more than 130 people doorknocked by the ADF were not at home self-isolating...
  
  https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-w ... -c-1207527

They know what they need to do they just don’t want to do it. They have two choices, lock it down now completely or start preparing to ride out NH style disaster that will spread across the country.

1 in 4 is pretty damning. If people aren't prepared to play the game in a relatively easy scenario I don't see how you get ahead.

Yep.

Singapore's second wave has been brought down from a peak of 1,426 new cases in a day a few months back to around 300 now.

It requires actual isolating measures, not half-arsed hand wringing at daily media briefings.

Harveys wrote:They know what they need to do they just don’t want to do it. They have two choices, lock it down now completely or start preparing to ride out NH style disaster that will spread across the country.

How does that stop essential service workers going to work when they have symptoms, which is the root cause at the moment?

sonic_attack wrote:1 in 4 is pretty damning. If people aren't prepared to play the game in a relatively easy scenario I don't see how you get ahead.

All of them have been referred to Victoria Police and can expect "significant" fines, according to the Premier.

kiap wrote:

jdogscoop wrote:

• NZ style lockdown still not the right fit says Sutton
  
  By Tom Cowie
  
  The idea of introducing a "New Zealand-style" hard lockdown in Victoria has been a repeated question at the daily briefings.
  
  Chief Health Officer Professor Brett Sutton has consistently said it wouldn't necessarily get the same results in Victoria.
  
  "It was different circumstances at a different time," he says.
  
  "We've got a lot more community transmission, bigger numbers."

He needs to change his tune. It's a fuck up down there right now:

• Victoria's coronavirus rules broken by one in four supposed to be self-isolating
  
  Emily Olle 7NEWS
  Updated: 31 July 2020 10:43 am
  
  The Victorian premier has expressed his dismay after it was revealed that one in four people diagnosed with COVID-19 were not at home when the Australian Defence Force (ADF) came knocking.
  
  The state recorded 627 new cases on Friday, its second-highest daily increase since the pandemic began.
  
  Thirty four teams of ADF personnel have been attending the homes of people who did not pick up the phone when the Department of Health and Human Services called.
  
  On Friday, Premier Daniel Andrews revealed that more than 130 people doorknocked by the ADF were not at home self-isolating...
  
  https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-w ... -c-1207527

I take his point though. How does a level 4 lockdown, restricting things to essential industries only, work when it is the essential workers taking the virus to the factories?

jdogscoop wrote:I take his point though. How does a level 4 lockdown, restricting things to essential industries only, work when it is the essential workers taking the virus to the factories?

They're "essential workers" in name only.

When the workplace has been deep cleaned, the infected workers have clear quarantined 14 days, and measures to prevent and monitor further spread are in place ...

they can go back to work.

kiap wrote:

jdogscoop wrote:I take his point though. How does a level 4 lockdown, restricting things to essential industries only, work when it is the essential workers taking the virus to the factories?

They're "essential workers" in name only.

When the workplace has been deep cleaned, the infected workers have clear quarantined 14 days, and measures to prevent and monitor further spread are in place ...

they can go back to work.

It's happening over and over, in companies across the state.

The level 4 lockdown doesn't tackle the root cause.

Working Class Rugger wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:It has to be seasonal related.

More people congregate indoors in the winter and that promotes spreading.

Can I ask what sort of winter Victoria is having? Is it cold enough that people would prefer to be indoors than outdoors.

It would explain why it hasn't spread to Queensland where it would remain warm enough to be outside and therefore promote social distancing.

God only knows how big the second wave will be up here once our winter comes around again.

What season is the US that's recording 10s of thousands of confirmed daily cases current enjoying?

I know you don’t mean to, but at present you’re arguing against science based on anecdotal evidence. However bad the US and others in the NH might be going now, all other things being equal, they will fade far worse in autumn and winter.

Thank you, Dr Nick.

shanky wrote:Thank you, Dr Nick.

I’m no doctor. I’m just someone who takes the word of scientific experts over social media influencers. Don’t make out that I am some sort of hero.

I shan’t be silenced

#heroes

The scientists are the heroes. I’m merely their champion.

While I admit I haven't read enough about it, I have 2 brothers in Melbourne with kids, who I am a bit worried about.

Speaking to them it is starting to sound a bit dodge.

towny wrote:The scientists are the heroes. I’m merely their champion.

And the nurses. They’re heroes too.

Especially the hot ones.

1 in 4 CoVid cases were not at home when visited by Vic Health authorities. Self quarantining isnt working . Stage 4 must be coming. May be in by Monday.

kiwinoz wrote:1 in 4 CoVid cases were not at home when visited by Vic Health authorities. Self quarantining isnt working . Stage 4 must be coming. May be in by Monday.

How does stage 4 change things, considering it relies on essential workers going to work? Or, in other words, the root cause of the current problem in Melbourne?

I'm also not sure what "self quarantining" means, unless you think Australia has the resources to put a security guard at the gate of all six million Victorians.

jdogscoop wrote:

Harveys wrote:They know what they need to do they just don’t want to do it. They have two choices, lock it down now completely or start preparing to ride out NH style disaster that will spread across the country.

How does that stop essential service workers going to work when they have symptoms, which is the root cause at the moment?

Define essential worker because everyone who still had a job was working during lock down, this was fine when Covid wasn’t running rampant through the community, at what stage do they say what we are doing now isn’t working?

If you think Melbourne’s problem right now is only essential workers turning up to work sick you’re off your tree, its way past that. There should have been workable systems in place to deal with isolated outbreaks before it started spreading through the community uncontrollably.

So what’s your solution to the essential worker turning up to work sick situation that will bring the situation under control without going into full lock down.

I strongly suspect the last four months has eroded a lot of the required good will of certain parts of the community and the social contagion of some of the arsehats on social media spreading their idiocy is going to make things much harder this time around.

Harveys I am 20,000 ft above your desolate bullshit.

Please take it up with one of my staffers.

This thinly veiled tribute is to my Premier, my marvellous Premier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou2vyyvD3rc

Enjoy the (propper) lock down.

My interpretation of it is that the initial lockdown was successful but the hotel quarantine stuff up was a disaster. Even if we went through a NZ style lockdown with complete elimination returning people escaping quarantine would still have occurred through the decision to use under resources security guards that took the piss. So we would still be in this situation.
The one thing that has stood out is the indecisive leadership that seems to always be 2 steps behind.

I would assume Dan Andrews will try and see this out as there is no other option then stand down as Premier. The decision to use security guards has caused deaths and millions in impact on the economy.
I would say there will be some big lawsuits and people who made the decisions need to be held to account.

So yes, we in the regions will wear our masks on Monday Dan. In a town of 40000 with no active cases we will adhere to this token gesture, one that won’t prevent further outbreaks at high density work areas. We will watch more people die and case numbers rise. And we will wait for the cases to reach our town, overwhelming our hospital and leading to deaths. All because hotel quarantine of returning passengers was mismanaged

Cullen wrote:My interpretation of it is that the initial lockdown was successful but the hotel quarantine stuff up was a disaster. Even if we went through a NZ style lockdown with complete elimination returning people escaping quarantine would still have occurred through the decision to use under resources security guards that took the piss. So we would still be in this situation.
The one thing that has stood out is the indecisive leadership that seems to always be 2 steps behind.

I would assume Dan Andrews will try and see this out as there is no other option then stand down as Premier. The decision to use security guards has caused deaths and millions in impact on the economy.
I would say there will be some big lawsuits and people who made the decisions need to be held to account.

So yes, we in the regions will wear our masks on Monday Dan. In a town of 40000 with no active cases we will adhere to this token gesture, one that won’t prevent further outbreaks at high density work areas. We will watch more people die and case numbers rise. And we will wait for the cases to reach our town, overwhelming our hospital and leading to deaths. All because hotel quarantine of returning passengers was mismanaged

Warrnambool?

Harveys wrote: Enjoy the (propper) lock down.

Ali's Choice wrote:

Harveys wrote: Enjoy the (propper) lock down.

Not at all.

I returned a shitty post with a shitty post.

I am in no way looking to troll this topic and find the situation in Melbourne deeply concerning.

I'm a bit confused as to why unwell essential workers are going in to work. Surely their companies would be sending them home?

I work for an essential service in NZ and anyone with any symptoms had to remain at home until cleared. As did anyone who had a member of their bubble being tested for Covid-19. The company paid them for this with special leave so there was no disincentive to following the rules.

I would imagine Australian companies would be doing something similar and that it's probably something that would have been mandated at a government level?

As an aside, we also split teams where ever possible to give us shifts / pods that didn't overlap so we didn't potentially lose an entire team if someone got infected. I would imagine essential services in Oz will be doing something similar.

Fat Old Git wrote:I'm a bit confused as to why unwell essential workers are going in to work. Surely their companies would be sending them home?

Yep.

sonic_attack wrote:1 in 4 is pretty damning. If people aren't prepared to play the game in a relatively easy scenario I don't see how you get ahead.

Meanwhile in Queensland the three chicks who lied about their trip to Melbourne are getting kicked about because of their race apparently. Yeah it's not like we have a spreading issue due to these three bints or anything. Triple J can fudge right off with their WOKE agenda.

Still waiting on a certain ex NRL player to announce that God's wraith had descended on Melbourne

towny wrote:

Working Class Rugger wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:It has to be seasonal related.

More people congregate indoors in the winter and that promotes spreading.

Can I ask what sort of winter Victoria is having? Is it cold enough that people would prefer to be indoors than outdoors.

It would explain why it hasn't spread to Queensland where it would remain warm enough to be outside and therefore promote social distancing.

God only knows how big the second wave will be up here once our winter comes around again.

What season is the US that's recording 10s of thousands of confirmed daily cases current enjoying?

I know you don’t mean to, but at present you’re arguing against science based on anecdotal evidence. However bad the US and others in the NH might be going now, all other things being equal, they will fade far worse in autumn and winter.

What I'm highlighting is the numbers coming out of in this instance the US. Which over the last 24 hours have recorded over 70k new confirmed infections and over 1400 Covid deaths. During their warmer months.

There is a body of evidence to suggest that there is potential for greater prevalence of transmission during cooler months. But as above, that doesn't mean there cannot be severe and in the case of the US widespread transmission of the virus regardless of season. Especially if social distancing measures are foregone in the belief that the warmer months is some kind of safe zone from the virus. Additionally, it's still far too early to be able to truly determine whether it is actually seasonal. The data sets are not yet complete to be able to determine if season has any effect on its spread. I'm sure you yourself as a champion of science understands that such things take time in order to determine the facts and making statements around seasonality this early in a pandemic is jumping the gun.

towny wrote:

Working Class Rugger wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:It has to be seasonal related.

More people congregate indoors in the winter and that promotes spreading.

Can I ask what sort of winter Victoria is having? Is it cold enough that people would prefer to be indoors than outdoors.

It would explain why it hasn't spread to Queensland where it would remain warm enough to be outside and therefore promote social distancing.

God only knows how big the second wave will be up here once our winter comes around again.

What season is the US that's recording 10s of thousands of confirmed daily cases current enjoying?

I know you don’t mean to, but at present you’re arguing against science based on anecdotal evidence. However bad the US and others in the NH might be going now, all other things being equal, they will fade far worse in autumn and winter.

Maybe you're referring to an earlier post (or posts) by WCR.

If you're referring to the post you quoted, a rhetorical question about the current season in the US and a mention of tens of thousands of new cases in the US daily do not IMO qualify as 'anecdotal evidence' either separately or taken together. It is (or was) summer in the US and that country has been reporting daily totals of new cases in the tens of thousands.

Relevantly, the study examined patient data from these countries in coming to its conclusions: Croatia, Spain, Italy, Finland, Poland, Germany, the UK and China.

grievous wrote: Warrnambool?

Yeah, just out of town. Portland is an hour away from here. No cases. A young lady came down from Melbourne to Portland to see her sick Mum. The daughter had Covid. Infected Mum, Dad, the nurse and 2 others. Her Dad died last week. Mid-50s. She killed her Dad. However nothing she did was wrong according to Dans mixed messages at the time.

Fat Old Git wrote:I'm a bit confused as to why unwell essential workers are going in to work. Surely their companies would be sending them home?

I work for an essential service in NZ and anyone with any symptoms had to remain at home until cleared. As did anyone who had a member of their bubble being tested for Covid-19. The company paid them for this with special leave so there was no disincentive to following the rules.

I would imagine Australian companies would be doing something similar and that it's probably something that would have been mandated at a government level?

As an aside, we also split teams where ever possible to give us shifts / pods that didn't overlap so we didn't potentially lose an entire team if someone got infected. I would imagine essential services in Oz will be doing something similar.

Construction is classed as essential in Vic so if you are a subbie plumber and you feel a bit off after a big weekend do you stay home and not collect a wage for a week or risk it?

That’s the attitude of people. People need to eat, pay rent.
One guy in Colac tested positive and had to isolate for 2 weeks. He didn’t want his
Kids annoying him for 2
Weeks
So sent them to school. 25 cases and growing from that decision

We had some crazy bint come down our way from Melbourne right after she got tested, did the grand tour of the area for the weekend and then finds out she is positive, small businesses in towns like Orbost, Bruthen and Lakes Entrance had to close up for deep cleaning. People were shitting themselves, at this point no one seems to have been infected but the 2 week cycle is not up yet so who knows. No one is blaming Dan for her stupid decision.

MungoMan wrote:

towny wrote:

Working Class Rugger wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:It has to be seasonal related.

More people congregate indoors in the winter and that promotes spreading.

Can I ask what sort of winter Victoria is having? Is it cold enough that people would prefer to be indoors than outdoors.

It would explain why it hasn't spread to Queensland where it would remain warm enough to be outside and therefore promote social distancing.

God only knows how big the second wave will be up here once our winter comes around again.

What season is the US that's recording 10s of thousands of confirmed daily cases current enjoying?

I know you don’t mean to, but at present you’re arguing against science based on anecdotal evidence. However bad the US and others in the NH might be going now, all other things being equal, they will fade far worse in autumn and winter.

Maybe you're referring to an earlier post (or posts) by WCR.

If you're referring to the post you quoted, a rhetorical question about the current season in the US and a mention of tens of thousands of new cases in the US daily do not IMO qualify as 'anecdotal evidence' either separately or taken together. It is (or was) summer in the US and that country has been reporting daily totals of new cases in the tens of thousands.

Relevantly, the study examined patient data from these countries in coming to its conclusions: Croatia, Spain, Italy, Finland, Poland, Germany, the UK and China.

Nope. I've not made many posts on this thread.

New cases in the past 24 hrs

Victoria 397
NSW 19
QLD 1

Cullen wrote:

Fat Old Git wrote:I'm a bit confused as to why unwell essential workers are going in to work. Surely their companies would be sending them home?

I work for an essential service in NZ and anyone with any symptoms had to remain at home until cleared. As did anyone who had a member of their bubble being tested for Covid-19. The company paid them for this with special leave so there was no disincentive to following the rules.

I would imagine Australian companies would be doing something similar and that it's probably something that would have been mandated at a government level?

As an aside, we also split teams where ever possible to give us shifts / pods that didn't overlap so we didn't potentially lose an entire team if someone got infected. I would imagine essential services in Oz will be doing something similar.

Construction is classed as essential in Vic so if you are a subbie plumber and you feel a bit off after a big weekend do you stay home and not collect a wage for a week or risk it?

That’s the attitude of people. People need to eat, pay rent.
One guy in Colac tested positive and had to isolate for 2 weeks. He didn’t want his
Kids annoying him for 2
Weeks
So sent them to school. 25 cases and growing from that decision

I don't know how it worked for the self employed here, but I think they were probably eligible for the wage subsidy to ensure there was no disincentive to doing the right thing.

I'm sure authorities in Oz will have gone through the same consideration.

That second example is a real head shaker.

Fat Old Git wrote:

Cullen wrote:

Fat Old Git wrote:I'm a bit confused as to why unwell essential workers are going in to work. Surely their companies would be sending them home?

I work for an essential service in NZ and anyone with any symptoms had to remain at home until cleared. As did anyone who had a member of their bubble being tested for Covid-19. The company paid them for this with special leave so there was no disincentive to following the rules.

I would imagine Australian companies would be doing something similar and that it's probably something that would have been mandated at a government level?

As an aside, we also split teams where ever possible to give us shifts / pods that didn't overlap so we didn't potentially lose an entire team if someone got infected. I would imagine essential services in Oz will be doing something similar.

Construction is classed as essential in Vic so if you are a subbie plumber and you feel a bit off after a big weekend do you stay home and not collect a wage for a week or risk it?

That’s the attitude of people. People need to eat, pay rent.
One guy in Colac tested positive and had to isolate for 2 weeks. He didn’t want his
Kids annoying him for 2
Weeks
So sent them to school. 25 cases and growing from that decision

I don't know how it worked for the self employed here, but I think they were probably eligible for the wage subsidy to ensure there was no disincentive to doing the right thing.

I'm sure authorities in Oz will have gone through the same consideration.

That second example is a real head shaker.

JobKeeper is available or at least was available to the self employed as of it's inception. There are certain criteria you need to satisfy. Like downturn in earnings etc.

My mother closed her shop (Hairdressers) for a period during the restrictions and put her staff on the supplement. Had her accountant look into it and came back that she was eligible for it as well. She opted not to but she could have.

Salient wrote:

sonic_attack wrote:1 in 4 is pretty damning. If people aren't prepared to play the game in a relatively easy scenario I don't see how you get ahead.

Meanwhile in Queensland the three chicks who lied about their trip to Melbourne are getting kicked about because of their race apparently. Yeah it's not like we have a spreading issue due to these three bints or anything. Triple J can fudge right off with their WOKE agenda.

Still waiting on a certain ex NRL player to announce that God's wraith had descended on Melbourne

What the fvck has their race got to do with it?

trapper wrote:We had some crazy bint come down our way from Melbourne right after she got tested, did the grand tour of the area for the weekend and then finds out she is positive, small businesses in towns like Orbost, Bruthen and Lakes Entrance had to close up for deep cleaning. People were shitting themselves, at this point no one seems to have been infected but the 2 week cycle is not up yet so who knows. No one is blaming Dan for her stupid decision.

If you get tested you do not have to isolate until your results. Only if you have symptoms.
Sounds like she did nothing wrong

Unless she left Melbourne without a valid reason. But there is no requirement to isolate waiting on results. So by the time you get your positive result (4 days) you could have been in close contact with hundreds of people