Melbourne. Fvcked.

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guy smiley
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by guy smiley »

jdogscoop wrote:
towny wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
towny wrote:
EverReady wrote:Who would have thought putting poorly trained and paid security guards on the job would go wrong. Managers can be awful stupid but when it comes to blame they exceed all expectations
Our society’s push for ‘efficiency’ over ‘effectiveness’ is the root cause of so many problems. It cripples companies, governments and systems.
With a Labor government it's also being speculated they turned down the ADF/Police assistance due to the jobs jobs jobs nature of the private approach.
Blah, blah, blah...

It’s not a political party - it’s almost everywhere and in everything.
Though I've voted on both sides, I've most often voted Labor. This is a facts thing, not a political thing.
You were the one who suggested it was speculation. Now you’re trying to pass your post about speculation off as fact.

Retract that apology Towny.
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Farva
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Farva »

towny wrote:Apologies if I misquoted you. I didn’t mean to sound nearly as rude as I did.
I personally think party politics is irrelevant with this subject.
Quite true. You could make the argument that a Liberal govt would pursue a small govt policy and so privatise.

It was an effort to select a model that has not worked. It’s disappointing and a disaster, but it’s not an ideological decision.

Having said that the small govt idea is hurting at the moment with privately held care homes hurting badly too.
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jdogscoop
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by jdogscoop »

towny wrote:
MungoMan wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
towny wrote:
EverReady wrote:Who would have thought putting poorly trained and paid security guards on the job would go wrong. Managers can be awful stupid but when it comes to blame they exceed all expectations
Our society’s push for ‘efficiency’ over ‘effectiveness’ is the root cause of so many problems. It cripples companies, governments and systems.
With a Labor government it's also being speculated they turned down the ADF/Police assistance due to the jobs jobs jobs nature of the private approach.
If Vic Labor is tolerably similar to Old Labor, likely a factor; but not the only factor.

ALP parliamentarians and their advisors generally take belief in Market Magic and the Competition Fairy as items of faith. Whatever is problem, the market is the answer.
Let’s say the market actually is the answer. You can only use that ‘ideology’ if you account for risk. The Vic economy will lose tens of billions of dollars, plus lots of sick and dead people, because some people tried to save tens of thousands. We see this in every company. Think of the HR Depts that seek departmental efficiencies that increase burden on other departments that actually make the company money. Hooray for the HR manager - give that plum more money. Fml
Ah, another fvckwit in the bottom line divisions having a crack at the support crews because they can't quantify their contribution.

Coolcoolcoolcoolcoolcool.

:thumbup: :roll:
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MungoMan
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by MungoMan »

Farva wrote:
towny wrote:Apologies if I misquoted you. I didn’t mean to sound nearly as rude as I did.
I personally think party politics is irrelevant with this subject.
Quite true. You could make the argument that a Liberal govt would pursue a small govt policy and so privatise.

It was an effort to select a model that has not worked. It’s disappointing and a disaster, but it’s not an ideological decision.

Having said that the small govt idea is hurting at the moment with privately held care homes hurting badly too.
It absolutely was! But it was / is common to the major Strayan parties of government.
Last edited by MungoMan on Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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EverReady
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by EverReady »

towny wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
towny wrote:
EverReady wrote:Who would have thought putting poorly trained and paid security guards on the job would go wrong. Managers can be awful stupid but when it comes to blame they exceed all expectations
Our society’s push for ‘efficiency’ over ‘effectiveness’ is the root cause of so many problems. It cripples companies, governments and systems.
With a Labor government it's also being speculated they turned down the ADF/Police assistance due to the jobs jobs jobs nature of the private approach.
Blah, blah, blah...

It’s not a political party - it’s almost everywhere and in everything.
It's an interesting point. It s religion taught on MBA courses and management masters of all hues. I'd know as I did one. You have people of all sorts of political persuasions on these courses but they are all learning the same thing and that is being lean and efficiencies can be found everywhere. I know of an organisation that got rid of receptionists and then with a straight face at a meeting with me said they had a tenth of the complaints they had in that setting. No fücking shit and it won't surprise you to hear the number of complaints about communication soared
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by towny »

If that’s what you read in my post, the English language must have changed since I’ve been overseas.
Every function in a business should be focused on helping the company more effectively produce whatever it is it produces.

Other than the removal of obvious waste, any efficiency or productivity gain that does anything other than this, is a mirage. If multiple departments drive efficiencies within their own departments as siloes, the company’s value chain becomes very inefficient.

I didn’t make this up and it’s farkin fact. However, department bosses generally think that their department has more lofty goals than being a mere cog in a big wheel, and their bosses and the shareholders generally don’t understand, or care about, fark-all other than how to hit some irrelevant KPI.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by eldanielfire »

EverReady wrote:
towny wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
towny wrote:
EverReady wrote:Who would have thought putting poorly trained and paid security guards on the job would go wrong. Managers can be awful stupid but when it comes to blame they exceed all expectations
Our society’s push for ‘efficiency’ over ‘effectiveness’ is the root cause of so many problems. It cripples companies, governments and systems.
With a Labor government it's also being speculated they turned down the ADF/Police assistance due to the jobs jobs jobs nature of the private approach.
Blah, blah, blah...

It’s not a political party - it’s almost everywhere and in everything.
It's an interesting point. It s religion taught on MBA courses and management masters of all hues. I'd know as I did one. You have people of all sorts of political persuasions on these courses but they are all learning the same thing and that is being lean and efficiencies can be found everywhere. I know of an organisation that got rid of receptionists and then with a straight face at a meeting with me said they had a tenth of the complaints they had in that setting. No fücking shit and it won't surprise you to hear the number of complaints about communication soared
A lot is down to the horrible management consultancy culture of business. People advice to rectify a problem, targets are set. But while targets are met it is often met in a way that causes bigger problems elsewhere or done on a false economy, where the savings will mean even bigger investment is needed to deal with the issues down the line as they get worse. But of course these successful managers or consultants have moved on by then and never learn or worry about the more long term problems they left behind or created.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by EverReady »

Are you now trying to fight with me. Apologise immediately
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by jdogscoop »

towny wrote:If that’s what you read in my post, the English language must have changed since I’ve been overseas.
Every function in a business should be focused on helping the company more effectively produce whatever it is it produces.

Other than the removal of obvious waste, any efficiency or productivity gain that does anything other than this, is a mirage. If multiple departments drive efficiencies within their own departments as siloes, the company’s value chain becomes very inefficient.

I didn’t make this up and it’s farkin fact. However, department bosses generally think that their department has more lofty goals than being a mere cog in a big wheel, and their bosses and the shareholders generally don’t understand, or care about, fark-all other than how to hit some irrelevant KPI.
You wrote off the entire HR (People and Culture) function, which deserved everything it got.

It was an ignorant comment.
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EverReady
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by EverReady »

That's a huge factor. People moving on having saved loads of money but leaving a shit heap
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by EverReady »

I should note Towny I am talking primarily about the application of these efficiencies on public services. It has its place but can be too widespread
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by towny »

EverReady wrote:
towny wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
towny wrote:
EverReady wrote:Who would have thought putting poorly trained and paid security guards on the job would go wrong. Managers can be awful stupid but when it comes to blame they exceed all expectations
Our society’s push for ‘efficiency’ over ‘effectiveness’ is the root cause of so many problems. It cripples companies, governments and systems.
With a Labor government it's also being speculated they turned down the ADF/Police assistance due to the jobs jobs jobs nature of the private approach.
Blah, blah, blah...

It’s not a political party - it’s almost everywhere and in everything.
It's an interesting point. It s religion taught on MBA courses and management masters of all hues. I'd know as I did one. You have people of all sorts of political persuasions on these courses but they are all learning the same thing and that is being lean and efficiencies can be found everywhere. I know of an organisation that got rid of receptionists and then with a straight face at a meeting with me said they had a tenth of the complaints they had in that setting. No fücking shit and it won't surprise you to hear the number of complaints about communication soared
I’ve argued with McDisney experts about this very thing. It’s lazy, easy disprovable thinking.

Don’t get me wrong - you can sometimes cut layers of shit out of an organisation - anything that doesn’t contribute to the primary goal of the organisation should be culled. Half of companies are just legacy structures from previous decisions.

You story is a very apt one. I recall QR cutting most of their development officers 15 years ago - one covered all of the state north of Brisbane. What was the objective of QR that they could cut this workforce? Not surprising that Qld Country supplies a big chunk of talent to the NRL but a country boy hasn’t cracked the Reds since....... who knows?

But hey! QR was so efficient (at doing the wrong thing). Don’t even get me started on automation in the mining industry.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by eldanielfire »

towny wrote:If that’s what you read in my post, the English language must have changed since I’ve been overseas.
Every function in a business should be focused on helping the company more effectively produce whatever it is it produces.

Other than the removal of obvious waste, any efficiency or productivity gain that does anything other than this, is a mirage. If multiple departments drive efficiencies within their own departments as siloes, the company’s value chain becomes very inefficient.

I didn’t make this up and it’s farkin fact. However, department bosses generally think that their department has more lofty goals than being a mere cog in a big wheel, and their bosses and the shareholders generally don’t understand, or care about, fark-all other than how to hit some irrelevant KPI.
As someone said, efficiency doesn't mean effectiveness. And how you measure that efficiency is a matter of choice. Take for example a middle high market shopping chain. It has some bad periods so it makes itself more efficient and productive. Typically this means staff are cut and job descriptions are spread among remaining staff. They also slim down what they sell which increase production speed and lowers costs.

In the short term the company makes more money. In the long term the customer base gets upset at the loss in staff who have time for them, poorer staff attitudes, poorer choice of items to buy and thus brand loyalty weakens if there is an effective competitor they lose customers and go into long term decline. This is the flaws in many efficiency focused mindsets.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by towny »

jdogscoop wrote:
towny wrote:If that’s what you read in my post, the English language must have changed since I’ve been overseas.
Every function in a business should be focused on helping the company more effectively produce whatever it is it produces.

Other than the removal of obvious waste, any efficiency or productivity gain that does anything other than this, is a mirage. If multiple departments drive efficiencies within their own departments as siloes, the company’s value chain becomes very inefficient.

I didn’t make this up and it’s farkin fact. However, department bosses generally think that their department has more lofty goals than being a mere cog in a big wheel, and their bosses and the shareholders generally don’t understand, or care about, fark-all other than how to hit some irrelevant KPI.
You wrote off the entire HR (People and Culture) function, which deserved everything it got.

It was an ignorant comment.
Nonsense. I did no such thing.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by eldanielfire »

towny wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
towny wrote:If that’s what you read in my post, the English language must have changed since I’ve been overseas.
Every function in a business should be focused on helping the company more effectively produce whatever it is it produces.

Other than the removal of obvious waste, any efficiency or productivity gain that does anything other than this, is a mirage. If multiple departments drive efficiencies within their own departments as siloes, the company’s value chain becomes very inefficient.

I didn’t make this up and it’s farkin fact. However, department bosses generally think that their department has more lofty goals than being a mere cog in a big wheel, and their bosses and the shareholders generally don’t understand, or care about, fark-all other than how to hit some irrelevant KPI.
You wrote off the entire HR (People and Culture) function, which deserved everything it got.

It was an ignorant comment.
Nonsense. I did no such thing.
You may not have intended it but it can be read that way with your statement indicating only primary goals matter.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by MungoMan »

EverReady wrote:I should note Towny I am talking primarily about the application of these efficiencies on public services. It has its place but can be too widespread
And I was very much speaking about the acceptance of free market doctrine as something akin to natural law in the context of public services.

I spent the last 20 plus years of my working life as a mines or energy policy analyst / advisor to Labor and coalition (National and Liberal) state governments.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by towny »

If you want, I can rant about culture too. Another buzz word that isn’t understood by most that use it.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Ellafan »

Cullen wrote:
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Not to mention the guards were on Jobkeeper while being paid cash in hand. And the company was billing for 8 guards when only 2 were on site.
That isn't a Labor issue.
:roll:
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towny
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by towny »

EverReady wrote:I should note Towny I am talking primarily about the application of these efficiencies on public services. It has its place but can be too widespread
I suspect it’s the same at its core; however scales of magnitude more complicated. What is the ‘objective’ of a public service department? That’s not clear and extraordinarily political. I’ll stay away from that quagmire as I’d be shooting at shadows.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by towny »

eldanielfire wrote:
towny wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
towny wrote:If that’s what you read in my post, the English language must have changed since I’ve been overseas.
Every function in a business should be focused on helping the company more effectively produce whatever it is it produces.

Other than the removal of obvious waste, any efficiency or productivity gain that does anything other than this, is a mirage. If multiple departments drive efficiencies within their own departments as siloes, the company’s value chain becomes very inefficient.

I didn’t make this up and it’s farkin fact. However, department bosses generally think that their department has more lofty goals than being a mere cog in a big wheel, and their bosses and the shareholders generally don’t understand, or care about, fark-all other than how to hit some irrelevant KPI.
You wrote off the entire HR (People and Culture) function, which deserved everything it got.

It was an ignorant comment.
Nonsense. I did no such thing.
You may not have intended it but it can be read that way with your statement indicating only primary goals matter.
There should only one goal. The primary goal. What other goal should there be?
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by eldanielfire »

towny wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
towny wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
towny wrote:If that’s what you read in my post, the English language must have changed since I’ve been overseas.
Every function in a business should be focused on helping the company more effectively produce whatever it is it produces.

Other than the removal of obvious waste, any efficiency or productivity gain that does anything other than this, is a mirage. If multiple departments drive efficiencies within their own departments as siloes, the company’s value chain becomes very inefficient.

I didn’t make this up and it’s farkin fact. However, department bosses generally think that their department has more lofty goals than being a mere cog in a big wheel, and their bosses and the shareholders generally don’t understand, or care about, fark-all other than how to hit some irrelevant KPI.
You wrote off the entire HR (People and Culture) function, which deserved everything it got.

It was an ignorant comment.
Nonsense. I did no such thing.
You may not have intended it but it can be read that way with your statement indicating only primary goals matter.
There should only one goal. The primary goal. What other goal should there be?
Staff welfare?
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by CrazyIslander »

Staff welfare is part of the goals of production. You make sure your staff is looked after and you'd have better productivity.
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towny
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by towny »

eldanielfire wrote:
towny wrote: There should only one goal. The primary goal. What other goal should there be?
Staff welfare?
What exactly do you mean by that and why do you think it’s important?
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Ellafan »

MungoMan wrote:
Farva wrote:
towny wrote:Apologies if I misquoted you. I didn’t mean to sound nearly as rude as I did.
I personally think party politics is irrelevant with this subject.
Quite true. You could make the argument that a Liberal govt would pursue a small govt policy and so privatise.

It was an effort to select a model that has not worked. It’s disappointing and a disaster, but it’s not an ideological decision.

Having said that the small govt idea is hurting at the moment with privately held care homes hurting badly too.
It absolutely was! But it was / is common to the major Strayan parties of government.
I'm with you Mungo. We either have the Westminster system of responsibility, or we don't. It's all very well for labour supporters here to say "not Dan's fault", but yes it is his fault, as much as the Ruby Princess was Gladys' fault. You either have agency responsibility, or you switch over to the structural theory and divest power to permanent, professional civil servants.

Now, did Vic labour party cabinet reject the disciplined ADF who would do the job properly to put in underpaid no-qualifications security guards?

Yes.

Did they do it because being a bit left they don't want the fascist army on the street ordering citizens about, or to save money?

Doesn't matter.

In the Westminster system, the buck stops in Dan's (and Gladys' etc) lap. and a good thing it is. Those bastards' snouts are in a very tasty public trough, and if they have to work hard for the money, good.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by CrazyIslander »

They should've used police/army or atleast skne medical staff supervision at the hotels. However, they've used their methods from the start and it worked initially.
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towny
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by towny »

Apologies, I am thread-jacking this thread. Though I may have done this once or twice in the past, this thread is a good one and deserves clear air, regardless of the extreme quality of other subjects I bring.

Theory of Constraints by Eli Godratt is, imho, the best way to see how (value chain) organisations should be run, as opposed to how most actually are run. It unintentionally dovetails really well with the more famous (but misunderstood) theories of Disruptive Innovation by Clay Christensen. Get into it if you’re curious. If you’re keen to hear more of my musings, visit me at http://www.townyprobablyknowswhy.se

Anyway, back to talking about careless farkwit victorians and/or immigrants - the plums.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by kiap »

Image
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by kiap »

kiap wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Sundy wrote:If the HC challenge succeeds and the virus returns to the WA community the Liberal Party will be all but finished in WA for the next few elections. I know a good few dyed in the wool libs who are swinging across the political divide
Probably not enough Federal seats in WAto worry ScoMo, and the WA libs aren't going to win the next state election regardless of the outcome of the High Court challenge.
WA state libs have already tested the breeze and swung behind closure. Federal is where the issue could still have some play.

Qld and WA were the only states where the coalition got more than half the available seats.

ScoMo absolutely needed that 17 seat difference in Qld but still would have lost without the 6-seat overtop in WA.
<ahem> ... Not that it'll stop Humpty Dumpty's case proceding, but ScoMo and Porter eventually started to get a sniff of the building political winds:

  • Commonwealth withdraws from Clive Palmer border case

    ... Political analyst Peter Kennedy said he believed the Federal Government was trying to distance itself from an eventual High Court outcome which might be poorly received by WA voters.

    "I think the Commonwealth realised that there was a chance that they might win the legal argument, but they might lose the political war in WA, and I think that was a big factor in Mr Morrison's decision," Mr Kennedy said.

    "Western Australians have strongly supported the hard border, and any decision to tear that down, which might lead to an increase in coronavirus cases, would be disastrous from a health point of view, and very bad politically.

    "I've got no doubt that the Federal Liberals saw the opinion polls and they got the opinion of Western Australians and passed that on to the Prime Minister."

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-02/ ... r/12515948
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by MungoMan »

kiap wrote:
kiap wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Sundy wrote:If the HC challenge succeeds and the virus returns to the WA community the Liberal Party will be all but finished in WA for the next few elections. I know a good few dyed in the wool libs who are swinging across the political divide
Probably not enough Federal seats in WAto worry ScoMo, and the WA libs aren't going to win the next state election regardless of the outcome of the High Court challenge.
WA state libs have already tested the breeze and swung behind closure. Federal is where the issue could still have some play.

Qld and WA were the only states where the coalition got more than half the available seats.

ScoMo absolutely needed that 17 seat difference in Qld but still would have lost without the 6-seat overtop in WA.
<ahem> ... Not that it'll stop Humpty Dumpty's case proceding, but ScoMo and Porter eventually started to get a sniff of the building political winds:

  • Commonwealth withdraws from Clive Palmer border case

    ... Political analyst Peter Kennedy said he believed the Federal Government was trying to distance itself from an eventual High Court outcome which might be poorly received by WA voters.

    "I think the Commonwealth realised that there was a chance that they might win the legal argument, but they might lose the political war in WA, and I think that was a big factor in Mr Morrison's decision," Mr Kennedy said.

    "Western Australians have strongly supported the hard border, and any decision to tear that down, which might lead to an increase in coronavirus cases, would be disastrous from a health point of view, and very bad politically.

    "I've got no doubt that the Federal Liberals saw the opinion polls and they got the opinion of Western Australians and passed that on to the Prime Minister."

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-02/ ... r/12515948
Saw the ABC article and sniggered mit gusto.

Cya later Fattie, we’re getting off here.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by guy smiley »

It’s a meaningless gesture. The case is before the court, they’ve assisted the plaintiff and clearly sided with him. Their material assistance is complete. This is just the usual PR spin but in this case I think they’ve miscalculated public opinion and cooked their WA goose.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by shanky »

EverReady wrote:Are you now trying to fight with me. Apologise immediately
Image
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Harveys »

towny wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
towny wrote:If that’s what you read in my post, the English language must have changed since I’ve been overseas.
Every function in a business should be focused on helping the company more effectively produce whatever it is it produces.

Other than the removal of obvious waste, any efficiency or productivity gain that does anything other than this, is a mirage. If multiple departments drive efficiencies within their own departments as siloes, the company’s value chain becomes very inefficient.

I didn’t make this up and it’s farkin fact. However, department bosses generally think that their department has more lofty goals than being a mere cog in a big wheel, and their bosses and the shareholders generally don’t understand, or care about, fark-all other than how to hit some irrelevant KPI.
You wrote off the entire HR (People and Culture) function, which deserved everything it got.

It was an ignorant comment.
Nonsense. I did no such thing.

This clown engaged with mutton page after page then starts firing wild shots at other posters, he’s on the turps.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Muttonbirds »

Any resident Melbourne posters go to work today? Am trying to confirm the rules around work restrictions as it is not clear from the statement by the Premier yesterday and media reports today.

What I have noticed is:
  • Restaurants, cafes and markets are all allowed to trade for takeaways only.

    Hairdressers are still open.

    Butchers, bakers and shopping malls are all still open.
These are already some of the big differences between NZ L4 and Melbourne L4. In NZ none of this was possible.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Farva »

Muttonbirds wrote:Any resident Melbourne posters go to work today? Am trying to confirm the rules around work restrictions as it is not clear from the statement by the Premier yesterday and media reports today.

What I have noticed is:
  • Restaurants, cafes and markets are all allowed to trade for takeaways only.

    Hairdressers are still open.

    Butchers, bakers and shopping malls are all still open.
These are already some of the big differences between NZ L4 and Melbourne L4. In NZ none of this was possible.
Its not kicked in yet. There is an announcement today to explain what is and is not allowed.
I doubt that shopping malls or hairdressers will remain open.
I would assume that butchers and bakers will be - they are effectively supermarkets.
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Muttonbirds »

Farva wrote:
Muttonbirds wrote:Any resident Melbourne posters go to work today? Am trying to confirm the rules around work restrictions as it is not clear from the statement by the Premier yesterday and media reports today.

What I have noticed is:
  • Restaurants, cafes and markets are all allowed to trade for takeaways only.

    Hairdressers are still open.

    Butchers, bakers and shopping malls are all still open.
These are already some of the big differences between NZ L4 and Melbourne L4. In NZ none of this was possible.
Its not kicked in yet. There is an announcement today to explain what is and is not allowed.
I doubt that shopping malls or hairdressers will remain open.
I would assume that butchers and bakers will be - they are effectively supermarkets.
Thanks Farva. I've read a few items today that said hairdressers and malls will remain open.

I'm particularly interested in these differences because they are exactly the examples which our opposition and all those calling for fewer restrictions here were pointing to when attacking the government's position.

The NZ government's position was that essential shopping meant food and medicine only. To minimise risk of spread, only a few places were open for food; supermarkets, corner stores and petrol stations. The idea was that the more smaller places you have open the higher the risk of poor protocol. Larger supermarkets were better able to enforce social distancing both inside and out.

The NZ opposition beat the government repeatedly on this but it has turned out they were right.
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Slim 293
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Slim 293 »

Victorian Liberal MP Tim Smith says the government have blood on their hands...

This was the Matthew Guy-lite who complained that stage 3 lockdown restrictions were too harsh because he couldn't play golf.
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jdogscoop
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by jdogscoop »

Tim Smith is an absolute waste of skin.
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jdogscoop
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by jdogscoop »

Muttonbirds wrote:
Farva wrote:
Muttonbirds wrote:Any resident Melbourne posters go to work today? Am trying to confirm the rules around work restrictions as it is not clear from the statement by the Premier yesterday and media reports today.

What I have noticed is:
  • Restaurants, cafes and markets are all allowed to trade for takeaways only.

    Hairdressers are still open.

    Butchers, bakers and shopping malls are all still open.
These are already some of the big differences between NZ L4 and Melbourne L4. In NZ none of this was possible.
Its not kicked in yet. There is an announcement today to explain what is and is not allowed.
I doubt that shopping malls or hairdressers will remain open.
I would assume that butchers and bakers will be - they are effectively supermarkets.
Thanks Farva. I've read a few items today that said hairdressers and malls will remain open.

I'm particularly interested in these differences because they are exactly the examples which our opposition and all those calling for fewer restrictions here were pointing to when attacking the government's position.

The NZ government's position was that essential shopping meant food and medicine only. To minimise risk of spread, only a few places were open for food; supermarkets, corner stores and petrol stations. The idea was that the more smaller places you have open the higher the risk of poor protocol. Larger supermarkets were better able to enforce social distancing both inside and out.

The NZ opposition beat the government repeatedly on this but it has turned out they were right.
You can't just overlay the NZ model on Victoria.

If you did, then thousands of small businesses will fail. We have been in stage 3 for so long that they have already had their profits reduced. If you then forced them to close their doors, they're fvcked. As simple as that.

Stage 3 wasn't a mistake, because despite the fuckwits in NZ gloating saying "look at Australia", the fact is stage 3 restrictions have worked in 7 out of 8 states and territories. It only failed here because of the hotel quarantine debacle.
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Farva
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Farva »

Phase 3 worked in Melbourne too. We were down to single digit case growth.

Restrictions were relaxed and then there was a second outbreak. For some reason it has not worked when implemented again, maybe due to the extent of community transmission, etc.

NZ probably would have worked with phase 3 too. There is an argument that they went too hard. But they are back to normal, so good on them (much like WA, SA, Tas, NT, Qld, etc)
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: Melbourne. Fvcked.

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

So there are over 800 cases that are not linked to the Security debacle and are classed as "Unkown"
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