Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

All things Rugby
Dan54.
Posts: 866
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:23 am

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Dan54. »

towny wrote:Wasn’t NZR supposed to announce stuff by now? What happened to their timeline? Their plan seems to have lasted 20 minutes.
Were they? I thought they were meeting with RA last week, nothing will come out of that for a few weeks I wouldn't think.
User avatar
Bindi
Posts: 7404
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Plum

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Bindi »

Was all for the Trans-Tasman comp a few weeks ago, but the AU comp has been my favourite season for many a year. Don't see the point in dealing with the NZ management. They seem happy to go their own way, anyway.

A few extra teams with some quality ring-ins and we have a very watchable competition. Just need to get the corporates onside and start nailing the advertising.
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 29811
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Ali's Choice »

towny wrote:Great news if WR does support a Pacifica team.
It is generally spelled 'Pasifika' ;)
User avatar
Working Class Rugger
Posts: 4006
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: STRAYA plum!!!

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Working Class Rugger »

Bindi wrote:Was all for the Trans-Tasman comp a few weeks ago, but the AU comp has been my favourite season for many a year. Don't see the point in dealing with the NZ management. They seem happy to go their own way, anyway.

A few extra teams with some quality ring-ins and we have a very watchable competition. Just need to get the corporates onside and start nailing the advertising.
:thumbup:
grievous
Posts: 12357
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Tahstown

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by grievous »

Bindi wrote:Was all for the Trans-Tasman comp a few weeks ago, but the AU comp has been my favourite season for many a year. Don't see the point in dealing with the NZ management. They seem happy to go their own way, anyway.

A few extra teams with some quality ring-ins and we have a very watchable competition. Just need to get the corporates onside and start nailing the advertising.
Yep and all teams play in one country which means more games to attend, more revenue. Lets run our own shop.
User avatar
Ellafan
Posts: 5096
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Ellafan »

.
Last edited by Ellafan on Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Ellafan
Posts: 5096
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Ellafan »

Dan54. wrote:
towny wrote:Wasn’t NZR supposed to announce stuff by now? What happened to their timeline? Their plan seems to have lasted 20 minutes.
Were they? I thought they were meeting with RA last week, nothing will come out of that for a few weeks I wouldn't think.

Image
towny
Posts: 19165
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:53 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by towny »

Ali's Choice wrote:
towny wrote:Great news if WR does support a Pacifica team.
It is generally spelled 'Pasifika' ;)
Well it shouldn’t be.
User avatar
Thomas
Posts: 16858
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: STRAYA!

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Thomas »

Bindi wrote:Was all for the Trans-Tasman comp a few weeks ago, but the AU comp has been my favourite season for many a year. Don't see the point in dealing with the NZ management. They seem happy to go their own way, anyway.

A few extra teams with some quality ring-ins and we have a very watchable competition. Just need to get the corporates onside and start nailing the advertising.
Yep.

I'd be happy with that as well. NZ can keep their dinky little 870-round competition.
User avatar
wamberal
Posts: 1095
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by wamberal »

Bindi wrote: A few extra teams with some quality ring-ins and we have a very watchable competition. Just need to get the corporates onside and start nailing the advertising.
I am also beginning to favour a local comp, especially if we have a big enough war chest to pinch some up and coming Keewees (just to spite the buggers!)


If ever there was a time for the local rugby-loving plutocrats to step up to the mark, it is now - or never.
User avatar
Farva
Posts: 17415
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: STRAYA PLUM

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Farva »

A local comp will be fun, but at the moment there are only 5 teams, so we are no better situation than NZ in that regard.

For me a TT comp is by far and away the optimum.
User avatar
Kahu
Posts: 3681
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:58 am

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Kahu »

The myth that fewer and stronger teams builds stronger international sides and higher quality and more profitable competitions is behind this whole mess. NRC and Mitre 10 Cup formats is the future that has greater potential exponential growth.
User avatar
Working Class Rugger
Posts: 4006
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: STRAYA plum!!!

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Working Class Rugger »

Farva wrote:A local comp will be fun, but at the moment there are only 5 teams, so we are no better situation than NZ in that regard.

For me a TT comp is by far and away the optimum.
Yeah. Nah. I was once a supporter of the idea of a TT competition but the more I've watched SR Au the more I've enjoyed it and realised just how much more I care about the games than playing teams from NZ, SA or Arg as a primary source of competition. If there's a TT or Asia-Pacific element to it in the future I'd much rather it be in a Cup format than a proper league.

The only caveat to that is i we went with TT of more than 12 teams. None of this 8-10 team league bullshit. Played over a full home and away schedule.
User avatar
Farva
Posts: 17415
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: STRAYA PLUM

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Farva »

Working Class Rugger wrote:
Farva wrote:A local comp will be fun, but at the moment there are only 5 teams, so we are no better situation than NZ in that regard.

For me a TT comp is by far and away the optimum.
Yeah. Nah. I was once a supporter of the idea of a TT competition but the more I've watched SR Au the more I've enjoyed it and realised just how much more I care about the games than playing teams from NZ, SA or Arg as a primary source of competition. If there's a TT or Asia-Pacific element to it in the future I'd much rather it be in a Cup format than a proper league.

The only caveat to that is i we went with TT of more than 12 teams. None of this 8-10 team league bullshit. Played over a full home and away schedule.
At the moment we have 5 teams. That means two games a week and if it runs for say 16 weeks, that is playing each team 3 times plus 3 byes. It gets very repetitive. People will lose interest. There will be no finals either.
We could introduce more teams, but then we have the NPC.
A 12 team, home and away, TT comp with the sunwolves and another team from somewhere (NZ to dilute the teams there?) works for me.
User avatar
Working Class Rugger
Posts: 4006
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: STRAYA plum!!!

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Working Class Rugger »

Farva wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
Farva wrote:A local comp will be fun, but at the moment there are only 5 teams, so we are no better situation than NZ in that regard.

For me a TT comp is by far and away the optimum.
Yeah. Nah. I was once a supporter of the idea of a TT competition but the more I've watched SR Au the more I've enjoyed it and realised just how much more I care about the games than playing teams from NZ, SA or Arg as a primary source of competition. If there's a TT or Asia-Pacific element to it in the future I'd much rather it be in a Cup format than a proper league.

The only caveat to that is i we went with TT of more than 12 teams. None of this 8-10 team league bullshit. Played over a full home and away schedule.
At the moment we have 5 teams. That means two games a week and if it runs for say 16 weeks, that is playing each team 3 times plus 3 byes. It gets very repetitive. People will lose interest. There will be no finals either.
We could introduce more teams, but then we have the NPC.
A 12 team, home and away, TT comp with the sunwolves and another team from somewhere (NZ to dilute the teams there?) works for me.
Why not have the NRC? Seriously. Just reworked to involve the current franchises and Fiji at a minimum. We could even look to get Manuma Samoa involved as well. Actually. Stuff it. We could involve the three actual teams from GRR that are already in place at a minimum. Or at least their players.

We have at any one time over 150 players plying their trade overseas. That's more than enough to fill two squads. A lot will depend on availability and the level of PE involved if reports of interest are true. But if Toronto can pick up Montero with a salary cap of $500k USD we could easily match that.

Regarding the Sunwolves. They're gone. There's no use suggesting them.
User avatar
Working Class Rugger
Posts: 4006
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: STRAYA plum!!!

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Working Class Rugger »

Farva wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
Farva wrote:A local comp will be fun, but at the moment there are only 5 teams, so we are no better situation than NZ in that regard.

For me a TT comp is by far and away the optimum.
Yeah. Nah. I was once a supporter of the idea of a TT competition but the more I've watched SR Au the more I've enjoyed it and realised just how much more I care about the games than playing teams from NZ, SA or Arg as a primary source of competition. If there's a TT or Asia-Pacific element to it in the future I'd much rather it be in a Cup format than a proper league.

The only caveat to that is i we went with TT of more than 12 teams. None of this 8-10 team league bullshit. Played over a full home and away schedule.
At the moment we have 5 teams. That means two games a week and if it runs for say 16 weeks, that is playing each team 3 times plus 3 byes. It gets very repetitive. People will lose interest. There will be no finals either.
We could introduce more teams, but then we have the NPC.
A 12 team, home and away, TT comp with the sunwolves and another team from somewhere (NZ to dilute the teams there?) works for me.
But on a TT competition. The best way to get to 12 would be to have a combined PI team based in NZ heavily leaning toward Samoan and Tongan talent with the Fiji Drua/Lautui playing out of the Islands focusing primarily on Fijian talent. This way NZ could have their 5 and we could have ours.
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 29811
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Ali's Choice »

Interesting that negotiations are well and truly underway, both RA and NZR are very quiet. No more mega phone diplomacy. No more critical comments to media outlets. Both sides have been very quiet for a while now.
User avatar
Working Class Rugger
Posts: 4006
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: STRAYA plum!!!

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Working Class Rugger »

Ali's Choice wrote:Interesting that negotiations are well and truly underway, both RA and NZR are very quiet. No more mega phone diplomacy. No more critical comments to media outlets. Both sides have been very quiet for a while now.
Could mean that. Could mean they're currently trying to flesh out domestic based structures. Literally the only thing I've seen since the meeting is an article suggesting SRA may be maintained through next season with no mention of crossover. (https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/20 ... eason.html)

What's odd regardless of whatever path they've chosen is the lack of leaking that's going on from both parties. If common ground had been found and terms for negotiations had been set we'd have seen something from the usual suspects. But nothing from what I can tell.

Which has me leaning toward the possible fleshing out of domestic structures. With NZ going with what they've currently running and releasing information about the need to potentially continue with SRA as is next season if things don't turnaround. While RA may be talking to PE interests behind the scenes and keeping a tight lid on things due to the nature of those talks.

Interested to see something sometime soon.
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 29811
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Ali's Choice »

Working Class Rugger wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:Interesting that negotiations are well and truly underway, both RA and NZR are very quiet. No more mega phone diplomacy. No more critical comments to media outlets. Both sides have been very quiet for a while now.
Could mean that. Could mean they're currently trying to flesh out domestic based structures.
Seems unlikely to me. If the relationship had broken down after 25 years of trans-Tasman co-operation with SR, I believe that we'd have heard all about it. There would be no reason whatsoever for the unions to keep quiet about a separation and even if they did there would be lots of leaks. Nope, the TT is clearly still very much on the cards despite the desires of many posters on this forum.
User avatar
Working Class Rugger
Posts: 4006
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: STRAYA plum!!!

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Working Class Rugger »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:Interesting that negotiations are well and truly underway, both RA and NZR are very quiet. No more mega phone diplomacy. No more critical comments to media outlets. Both sides have been very quiet for a while now.
Could mean that. Could mean they're currently trying to flesh out domestic based structures.
Seems unlikely to me. If the relationship had broken down after 25 years of trans-Tasman co-operation with SR, I believe that we'd have heard all about it. There would be no reason whatsoever for the unions to keep quiet about a separation and even if they did there would be lots of leaks. Nope, the TT is clearly still very much on the cards despite the desires of many posters on this forum.
We'll find out eventually.
RandomNavigat0r
Posts: 640
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:32 am

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by RandomNavigat0r »

Working Class Rugger wrote:
Farva wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
Farva wrote:A local comp will be fun, but at the moment there are only 5 teams, so we are no better situation than NZ in that regard.

For me a TT comp is by far and away the optimum.
Yeah. Nah. I was once a supporter of the idea of a TT competition but the more I've watched SR Au the more I've enjoyed it and realised just how much more I care about the games than playing teams from NZ, SA or Arg as a primary source of competition. If there's a TT or Asia-Pacific element to it in the future I'd much rather it be in a Cup format than a proper league.

The only caveat to that is i we went with TT of more than 12 teams. None of this 8-10 team league bullshit. Played over a full home and away schedule.
At the moment we have 5 teams. That means two games a week and if it runs for say 16 weeks, that is playing each team 3 times plus 3 byes. It gets very repetitive. People will lose interest. There will be no finals either.
We could introduce more teams, but then we have the NPC.
A 12 team, home and away, TT comp with the sunwolves and another team from somewhere (NZ to dilute the teams there?) works for me.
Why not have the NRC? Seriously. Just reworked to involve the current franchises and Fiji at a minimum. We could even look to get Manuma Samoa involved as well. Actually. Stuff it. We could involve the three actual teams from GRR that are already in place at a minimum. Or at least their players.

We have at any one time over 150 players plying their trade overseas. That's more than enough to fill two squads. A lot will depend on availability and the level of PE involved if reports of interest are true. But if Toronto can pick up Montero with a salary cap of $500k USD we could easily match that.

Regarding the Sunwolves. They're gone. There's no use suggesting them.
Well the sunwolves might have been going to GRR. It was reported that they were prior to their extension this year in SuperRugby. With both GRR and SuperRugby now up in the air anything could happen.

But the current 5 teams
Force
Waratahs
Reds
Rebels
Brumbies

Plus the 5 GRR sides:
Fiji Latui
Manuma Samoa
China Lions
South China Tigers
Malaysia Valke

Throw in
Sunwolves (if they still exist)
Future South Australia
Future Tonga

Then you have a pretty good and respectable 10 team comp without any NZL teams except Bay Of Plenty who play as the China Lions.

Then add South Australia in the future, and maybe a Tongan side and thats a pretty awesome 12/13 team comp without needing NZL. Then their media and fans can keep telling us how well their little 5 team circle jerk is going whilst we play in a proper comp.
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 29811
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Ali's Choice »

RandomNavigat0r wrote: Well the sunwolves might have been going to GRR. It was reported that they were prior to their extension this year in SuperRugby. With both GRR and SuperRugby now up in the air anything could happen.

But the current 5 teams
Force
Waratahs
Reds
Rebels
Brumbies

Plus the 5 GRR sides:
Fiji Latui
Manuma Samoa
China Lions
South China Tigers
Malaysia Valke

Throw in
Sunwolves (if they still exist)
Future South Australia
Future Tonga

Then you have a pretty good and respectable 10 team comp without any NZL teams except Bay Of Plenty who play as the China Lions.

Then add South Australia in the future, and maybe a Tongan side and thats a pretty awesome 12/13 team comp without needing NZL. Then their media and fans can keep telling us how well their little 5 team circle jerk is going whilst we play in a proper comp.
What a stupid idea. And what an utterly ridiculous comp. The only thing "proper" about your suggested comp is that it's proper crap. RA won't touch that with a barge pole. That would be the worst pro comp imaginable. What kind of ratings do you think Future South Australia vs South China Tigers would generate in the key markets of Sydney, Melb and Brisbane?
User avatar
sonic_attack
Posts: 4111
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Contact:

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by sonic_attack »

Why are you trying to pop randomsalivators bubble AC. You're a constant bring down for Australian rugby.

Clearly, this is what Australia needs in a competition. It's simply a question of content and the broadcasters and philanthropists will be all over it and Australian rugby will be rolling in it.
User avatar
Working Class Rugger
Posts: 4006
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: STRAYA plum!!!

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Working Class Rugger »

RandomNavigat0r wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
Farva wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
Farva wrote:A local comp will be fun, but at the moment there are only 5 teams, so we are no better situation than NZ in that regard.

For me a TT comp is by far and away the optimum.
Yeah. Nah. I was once a supporter of the idea of a TT competition but the more I've watched SR Au the more I've enjoyed it and realised just how much more I care about the games than playing teams from NZ, SA or Arg as a primary source of competition. If there's a TT or Asia-Pacific element to it in the future I'd much rather it be in a Cup format than a proper league.

The only caveat to that is i we went with TT of more than 12 teams. None of this 8-10 team league bullshit. Played over a full home and away schedule.
At the moment we have 5 teams. That means two games a week and if it runs for say 16 weeks, that is playing each team 3 times plus 3 byes. It gets very repetitive. People will lose interest. There will be no finals either.
We could introduce more teams, but then we have the NPC.
A 12 team, home and away, TT comp with the sunwolves and another team from somewhere (NZ to dilute the teams there?) works for me.
Why not have the NRC? Seriously. Just reworked to involve the current franchises and Fiji at a minimum. We could even look to get Manuma Samoa involved as well. Actually. Stuff it. We could involve the three actual teams from GRR that are already in place at a minimum. Or at least their players.

We have at any one time over 150 players plying their trade overseas. That's more than enough to fill two squads. A lot will depend on availability and the level of PE involved if reports of interest are true. But if Toronto can pick up Montero with a salary cap of $500k USD we could easily match that.

Regarding the Sunwolves. They're gone. There's no use suggesting them.
Well the sunwolves might have been going to GRR. It was reported that they were prior to their extension this year in SuperRugby. With both GRR and SuperRugby now up in the air anything could happen.

But the current 5 teams
Force
Waratahs
Reds
Rebels
Brumbies

Plus the 5 GRR sides:
Fiji Latui
Manuma Samoa
China Lions
South China Tigers
Malaysia Valke

Throw in
Sunwolves (if they still exist)
Future South Australia
Future Tonga

Then you have a pretty good and respectable 10 team comp without any NZL teams except Bay Of Plenty who play as the China Lions.

Then add South Australia in the future, and maybe a Tongan side and thats a pretty awesome 12/13 team comp without needing NZL. Then their media and fans can keep telling us how well their little 5 team circle jerk is going whilst we play in a proper comp.
The three teams I've bolded are either unlikely to happen (Lions), have just declared bankruptcy(Valke) or do not exist (Sunwolves).
User avatar
Farva
Posts: 17415
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: STRAYA PLUM

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Farva »

Working Class Rugger wrote:
Farva wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
Farva wrote:A local comp will be fun, but at the moment there are only 5 teams, so we are no better situation than NZ in that regard.

For me a TT comp is by far and away the optimum.
Yeah. Nah. I was once a supporter of the idea of a TT competition but the more I've watched SR Au the more I've enjoyed it and realised just how much more I care about the games than playing teams from NZ, SA or Arg as a primary source of competition. If there's a TT or Asia-Pacific element to it in the future I'd much rather it be in a Cup format than a proper league.

The only caveat to that is i we went with TT of more than 12 teams. None of this 8-10 team league bullshit. Played over a full home and away schedule.
At the moment we have 5 teams. That means two games a week and if it runs for say 16 weeks, that is playing each team 3 times plus 3 byes. It gets very repetitive. People will lose interest. There will be no finals either.
We could introduce more teams, but then we have the NPC.
A 12 team, home and away, TT comp with the sunwolves and another team from somewhere (NZ to dilute the teams there?) works for me.
Why not have the NRC? Seriously. Just reworked to involve the current franchises and Fiji at a minimum. We could even look to get Manuma Samoa involved as well. Actually. Stuff it. We could involve the three actual teams from GRR that are already in place at a minimum. Or at least their players.

We have at any one time over 150 players plying their trade overseas. That's more than enough to fill two squads. A lot will depend on availability and the level of PE involved if reports of interest are true. But if Toronto can pick up Montero with a salary cap of $500k USD we could easily match that.

Regarding the Sunwolves. They're gone. There's no use suggesting them.
An NRC would be nice but I just dont think it will generate the interest or be at the standard to bridge the gap between semi pro (which is what it will be) to international level.
I dont think Aus can support more than 5 pro teams at the moment with the funds we have (and even that is a stretch) and if the only pro rugby we have is internationals then we will quickly fall away.
NZ is in a similar situation - what do NPC players get? $50k? You wont keep the young guys who will go to Europe and as soon as someone is out of the international squad, they are gone too.
I cant really see bringing in the GRR teams as sustainable either unfortunately.
Honestly, a TT is the best option.

Best bit of all this is we know that SA arent in the negotiations - they dont keep quiet when its going on and would be loudly claiming that they keep the comp afloat.
User avatar
Working Class Rugger
Posts: 4006
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: STRAYA plum!!!

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Working Class Rugger »

Ali's Choice wrote:
RandomNavigat0r wrote: Well the sunwolves might have been going to GRR. It was reported that they were prior to their extension this year in SuperRugby. With both GRR and SuperRugby now up in the air anything could happen.

But the current 5 teams
Force
Waratahs
Reds
Rebels
Brumbies

Plus the 5 GRR sides:
Fiji Latui
Manuma Samoa
China Lions
South China Tigers
Malaysia Valke

Throw in
Sunwolves (if they still exist)
Future South Australia
Future Tonga

Then you have a pretty good and respectable 10 team comp without any NZL teams except Bay Of Plenty who play as the China Lions.

Then add South Australia in the future, and maybe a Tongan side and thats a pretty awesome 12/13 team comp without needing NZL. Then their media and fans can keep telling us how well their little 5 team circle jerk is going whilst we play in a proper comp.
What a stupid idea. And what an utterly ridiculous comp. The only thing "proper" about your suggested comp is that it's proper crap. RA won't touch that with a barge pole. That would be the worst pro comp imaginable. What kind of ratings do you think Future South Australia vs South China Tigers would generate in the key markets of Sydney, Melb and Brisbane?
If a South Australian based team emerged with the right recruiting. May be no worse than the Force or Rebels. But if we were to go domestic then just use the basic structure of the NRC. Move the current franchises in the places of Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra etc. and either run the two country teams as proper franchises with actual bases. Bring in the Drua/Lautui and there's 8 teams to start.

That would provide us with 14 weeks of regular competition and two of finals for a total of 58 games. Not perfect but certainly not bad. There's a lot of issues to overcome to achieve that. Not questioning that but this would be a solid jumping off point. Establish plans down the road to add 2 more teams and we'll be somewhere close to what we need.
User avatar
Working Class Rugger
Posts: 4006
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: STRAYA plum!!!

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Working Class Rugger »

Farva wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
Farva wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
Farva wrote:A local comp will be fun, but at the moment there are only 5 teams, so we are no better situation than NZ in that regard.

For me a TT comp is by far and away the optimum.
Yeah. Nah. I was once a supporter of the idea of a TT competition but the more I've watched SR Au the more I've enjoyed it and realised just how much more I care about the games than playing teams from NZ, SA or Arg as a primary source of competition. If there's a TT or Asia-Pacific element to it in the future I'd much rather it be in a Cup format than a proper league.

The only caveat to that is i we went with TT of more than 12 teams. None of this 8-10 team league bullshit. Played over a full home and away schedule.
At the moment we have 5 teams. That means two games a week and if it runs for say 16 weeks, that is playing each team 3 times plus 3 byes. It gets very repetitive. People will lose interest. There will be no finals either.
We could introduce more teams, but then we have the NPC.
A 12 team, home and away, TT comp with the sunwolves and another team from somewhere (NZ to dilute the teams there?) works for me.
Why not have the NRC? Seriously. Just reworked to involve the current franchises and Fiji at a minimum. We could even look to get Manuma Samoa involved as well. Actually. Stuff it. We could involve the three actual teams from GRR that are already in place at a minimum. Or at least their players.

We have at any one time over 150 players plying their trade overseas. That's more than enough to fill two squads. A lot will depend on availability and the level of PE involved if reports of interest are true. But if Toronto can pick up Montero with a salary cap of $500k USD we could easily match that.

Regarding the Sunwolves. They're gone. There's no use suggesting them.
An NRC would be nice but I just dont think it will generate the interest or be at the standard to bridge the gap between semi pro (which is what it will be) to international level.
I dont think Aus can support more than 5 pro teams at the moment with the funds we have (and even that is a stretch) and if the only pro rugby we have is internationals then we will quickly fall away.
NZ is in a similar situation - what do NPC players get? $50k? You wont keep the young guys who will go to Europe and as soon as someone is out of the international squad, they are gone too.
I cant really see bringing in the GRR teams as sustainable either unfortunately.
Honestly, a TT is the best option.

Best bit of all this is we know that SA arent in the negotiations - they dont keep quiet when its going on and would be loudly claiming that they keep the comp afloat.
As above. There will be some rather significant hurdles to overcome. No doubt. All I'm suggesting is that a supercharged NRC would be the best available structure already in existence to achieve a domestic set up.
towny
Posts: 19165
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:53 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by towny »

Ali's Choice wrote:
RandomNavigat0r wrote: Well the sunwolves might have been going to GRR. It was reported that they were prior to their extension this year in SuperRugby. With both GRR and SuperRugby now up in the air anything could happen.

But the current 5 teams
Force
Waratahs
Reds
Rebels
Brumbies

Plus the 5 GRR sides:
Fiji Latui
Manuma Samoa
China Lions
South China Tigers
Malaysia Valke

Throw in
Sunwolves (if they still exist)
Future South Australia
Future Tonga

Then you have a pretty good and respectable 10 team comp without any NZL teams except Bay Of Plenty who play as the China Lions.

Then add South Australia in the future, and maybe a Tongan side and thats a pretty awesome 12/13 team comp without needing NZL. Then their media and fans can keep telling us how well their little 5 team circle jerk is going whilst we play in a proper comp.
What a stupid idea. And what an utterly ridiculous comp. The only thing "proper" about your suggested comp is that it's proper crap. RA won't touch that with a barge pole. That would be the worst pro comp imaginable. What kind of ratings do you think Future South Australia vs South China Tigers would generate in the key markets of Sydney, Melb and Brisbane?
Well said.
User avatar
Sensible Stephen
Posts: 3000
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:45 am

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Sensible Stephen »

I am with Farva, TT is the way to go. I don't mind going back down to 4 AU teams if we have to.
RandomNavigat0r
Posts: 640
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:32 am

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by RandomNavigat0r »

Sensible Stephen wrote:I am with Farva, TT is the way to go. I don't mind going back down to 4 AU teams if we have to.
Ok smarty pants. And if the TT doesnt happen because the NZRU wanna act like dicks, then whats your plan?

Every single one of us want a TT comp with an even split in teams. Failing that we need an alternative plan, not just wishing and hoping the TT will come to fruition, because if it doesnt because of the kiwi attitudes its gonna make alot of the TT fan bois look a little stupid because right now the NZR have pushed back, hard, bro, like really hard, hard as.
RandomNavigat0r
Posts: 640
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:32 am

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by RandomNavigat0r »

Ali's Choice wrote:
RandomNavigat0r wrote: Well the sunwolves might have been going to GRR. It was reported that they were prior to their extension this year in SuperRugby. With both GRR and SuperRugby now up in the air anything could happen.

But the current 5 teams
Force
Waratahs
Reds
Rebels
Brumbies

Plus the 5 GRR sides:
Fiji Latui
Manuma Samoa
China Lions
South China Tigers
Malaysia Valke

Throw in
Sunwolves (if they still exist)
Future South Australia
Future Tonga

Then you have a pretty good and respectable 10 team comp without any NZL teams except Bay Of Plenty who play as the China Lions.

Then add South Australia in the future, and maybe a Tongan side and thats a pretty awesome 12/13 team comp without needing NZL. Then their media and fans can keep telling us how well their little 5 team circle jerk is going whilst we play in a proper comp.
What a stupid idea. And what an utterly ridiculous comp. The only thing "proper" about your suggested comp is that it's proper crap. RA won't touch that with a barge pole. That would be the worst pro comp imaginable. What kind of ratings do you think Future South Australia vs South China Tigers would generate in the key markets of Sydney, Melb and Brisbane?
Its about content bro. But seeing NZL has never run a successful pro comp in their lives they wouldnt know what that is.

Stick to your little 5 team wank fest and we will see how valuable your comp is in 3 years time when the Crusaders take on the Highlanders for the 15th time...
RandomNavigat0r
Posts: 640
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:32 am

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by RandomNavigat0r »

Working Class Rugger wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
RandomNavigat0r wrote: Well the sunwolves might have been going to GRR. It was reported that they were prior to their extension this year in SuperRugby. With both GRR and SuperRugby now up in the air anything could happen.

But the current 5 teams
Force
Waratahs
Reds
Rebels
Brumbies

Plus the 5 GRR sides:
Fiji Latui
Manuma Samoa
China Lions
South China Tigers
Malaysia Valke

Throw in
Sunwolves (if they still exist)
Future South Australia
Future Tonga

Then you have a pretty good and respectable 10 team comp without any NZL teams except Bay Of Plenty who play as the China Lions.

Then add South Australia in the future, and maybe a Tongan side and thats a pretty awesome 12/13 team comp without needing NZL. Then their media and fans can keep telling us how well their little 5 team circle jerk is going whilst we play in a proper comp.
What a stupid idea. And what an utterly ridiculous comp. The only thing "proper" about your suggested comp is that it's proper crap. RA won't touch that with a barge pole. That would be the worst pro comp imaginable. What kind of ratings do you think Future South Australia vs South China Tigers would generate in the key markets of Sydney, Melb and Brisbane?
If a South Australian based team emerged with the right recruiting. May be no worse than the Force or Rebels. But if we were to go domestic then just use the basic structure of the NRC. Move the current franchises in the places of Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra etc. and either run the two country teams as proper franchises with actual bases. Bring in the Drua/Lautui and there's 8 teams to start.

That would provide us with 14 weeks of regular competition and two of finals for a total of 58 games. Not perfect but certainly not bad. There's a lot of issues to overcome to achieve that. Not questioning that but this would be a solid jumping off point. Establish plans down the road to add 2 more teams and we'll be somewhere close to what we need.
I honestly really like that format. Throw in the GRR teams that still exist like Manuma Samoa and merge Fiji Latui with Fiji Drua, add one of the Chinese teams if they still exist so we can access the asian lucrative market and we are laughing.

Instead of having QLD country they could have maybe the Goldcoast, and the new Sydney team could maybe be Western Sydney instead of country so the Tahs encompass greater NSW and Eastern Sydney.

It would start to look like something the NRL has then and should accumulate wealth over time. South Australia could be a future project to add, they currently receive more funding than WA from RA so they should be able to scrape together a side to tap into the SA market.
RandomNavigat0r
Posts: 640
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:32 am

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by RandomNavigat0r »

Working Class Rugger wrote:
Farva wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
Farva wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
Yeah. Nah. I was once a supporter of the idea of a TT competition but the more I've watched SR Au the more I've enjoyed it and realised just how much more I care about the games than playing teams from NZ, SA or Arg as a primary source of competition. If there's a TT or Asia-Pacific element to it in the future I'd much rather it be in a Cup format than a proper league.

The only caveat to that is i we went with TT of more than 12 teams. None of this 8-10 team league bullshit. Played over a full home and away schedule.
At the moment we have 5 teams. That means two games a week and if it runs for say 16 weeks, that is playing each team 3 times plus 3 byes. It gets very repetitive. People will lose interest. There will be no finals either.
We could introduce more teams, but then we have the NPC.
A 12 team, home and away, TT comp with the sunwolves and another team from somewhere (NZ to dilute the teams there?) works for me.
Why not have the NRC? Seriously. Just reworked to involve the current franchises and Fiji at a minimum. We could even look to get Manuma Samoa involved as well. Actually. Stuff it. We could involve the three actual teams from GRR that are already in place at a minimum. Or at least their players.

We have at any one time over 150 players plying their trade overseas. That's more than enough to fill two squads. A lot will depend on availability and the level of PE involved if reports of interest are true. But if Toronto can pick up Montero with a salary cap of $500k USD we could easily match that.

Regarding the Sunwolves. They're gone. There's no use suggesting them.
An NRC would be nice but I just dont think it will generate the interest or be at the standard to bridge the gap between semi pro (which is what it will be) to international level.
I dont think Aus can support more than 5 pro teams at the moment with the funds we have (and even that is a stretch) and if the only pro rugby we have is internationals then we will quickly fall away.
NZ is in a similar situation - what do NPC players get? $50k? You wont keep the young guys who will go to Europe and as soon as someone is out of the international squad, they are gone too.
I cant really see bringing in the GRR teams as sustainable either unfortunately.
Honestly, a TT is the best option.

Best bit of all this is we know that SA arent in the negotiations - they dont keep quiet when its going on and would be loudly claiming that they keep the comp afloat.
As above. There will be some rather significant hurdles to overcome. No doubt. All I'm suggesting is that a supercharged NRC would be the best available structure already in existence to achieve a domestic set up.
Whatever structure they form they should leave potentially 4 spots open for NZL teams to join. If in the future they want to join because they are going broke as a union amd desperately need the Australian market to survive when no one wants to watch the 700th game between the Blues and Chiefs they can see what its like to have to sacrifice a side, otherwise we watch them go broke and buy up all their players instead..
User avatar
Ali's Choice
Posts: 29811
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Queensland

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Ali's Choice »

RandomNavigat0r wrote:Its about content bro. But seeing NZL has never run a successful pro comp in their lives they wouldnt know what that is.

Stick to your little 5 team wank fest and we will see how valuable your comp is in 3 years time when the Crusaders take on the Highlanders for the 15th time...
You're clearly a f**king idiot. There is no point in content if no-one wants to watch it. The NRC provided content on Foxtel, how did that go? South Australia? South China Tigers? Have you seriously lost your mind?

The Australian sporting public wants tribalism and recognisable brands. Throwing a half dozen new teams into a brand new comp and expecting anyone to warm to any of them is pure fantasy. That sounds like something that your local meth head sleeping rough in the park would come up with. Expansion is how the old SR comp came unstuck and is fraught with danger. For example, RA has pumped good money after bad into the Melbourne Rebels since 2011 and they've barely taken root in Melbourne.

I fully expect a 10 team TT comp to transpire. But if RA do end up going alone the smartest model would be to base their comp around their existing 5 SR AU franchises, and maybe add one more. I'd opt for a Japanese team. Forget South Australia, South China or random PI nothing-teams that even the local islanders won't follow. Six teams is plenty, especially given the current depth of player talent in Australia.

The Currie Cup was at its strongest and most popular when it was 6 teams and so too could be Super Rugby AU. 6 teams, with matches played Friday night, Saturday night and Sunday still gives much more content than the old Super Rugby model did, but it's not compromising on quality, tradition or tribalism. Down the track if the finances work, expansion can happen in a calm, orderly and well planned fashion, using the AFL's expansion into Western Sydney as the template.
User avatar
Mr Mike
Posts: 11068
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Texas

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Mr Mike »

Sensible Stephen wrote:I am with Farva, TT is the way to go. I don't mind going back down to 4 AU teams if we have to.
Thanks Hamish.
grievous
Posts: 12357
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Tahstown

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by grievous »

sonic_attack wrote:Why are you trying to pop randomsalivators bubble AC. You're a constant bring down for Australian rugby.

Clearly, this is what Australia needs in a competition. It's simply a question of content and the broadcasters and philanthropists will be all over it and Australian rugby will be rolling in it.
Id like to see that comp just for your apoplectic reaction on here :lol:
grievous
Posts: 12357
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Tahstown

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by grievous »

Working Class Rugger wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
RandomNavigat0r wrote: Well the sunwolves might have been going to GRR. It was reported that they were prior to their extension this year in SuperRugby. With both GRR and SuperRugby now up in the air anything could happen.

But the current 5 teams
Force
Waratahs
Reds
Rebels
Brumbies

Plus the 5 GRR sides:
Fiji Latui
Manuma Samoa
China Lions
South China Tigers
Malaysia Valke

Throw in
Sunwolves (if they still exist)
Future South Australia
Future Tonga

Then you have a pretty good and respectable 10 team comp without any NZL teams except Bay Of Plenty who play as the China Lions.

Then add South Australia in the future, and maybe a Tongan side and thats a pretty awesome 12/13 team comp without needing NZL. Then their media and fans can keep telling us how well their little 5 team circle jerk is going whilst we play in a proper comp.
What a stupid idea. And what an utterly ridiculous comp. The only thing "proper" about your suggested comp is that it's proper crap. RA won't touch that with a barge pole. That would be the worst pro comp imaginable. What kind of ratings do you think Future South Australia vs South China Tigers would generate in the key markets of Sydney, Melb and Brisbane?
If a South Australian based team emerged with the right recruiting. May be no worse than the Force or Rebels. But if we were to go domestic then just use the basic structure of the NRC. Move the current franchises in the places of Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra etc. and either run the two country teams as proper franchises with actual bases. Bring in the Drua/Lautui and there's 8 teams to start.

That would provide us with 14 weeks of regular competition and two of finals for a total of 58 games. Not perfect but certainly not bad. There's a lot of issues to overcome to achieve that. Not questioning that but this would be a solid jumping off point. Establish plans down the road to add 2 more teams and we'll be somewhere close to what we need.
Trouble is RA never bothered to test and keep interest in SA. instead they wasted time holding multiple tests on the Gold Coast, seduced by Qld government money, look where that ended up.
I applaud putting smaller tests in Newcastle and this year Townsville where to hold the Fiji test but you dont ignore 1m people. Fark even the Adelaide Rams had decent crowds in superleage but RA has never bothered to play a test there.
There is interest in rugby but hard to cultivate it now for a regular club comp, in these times, above two feral AFL teams, Adelaide United soccer, 36ERS, big bash.
User avatar
Farva
Posts: 17415
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: STRAYA PLUM

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Farva »

Sensible Stephen wrote:I am with Farva, TT is the way to go. I don't mind going back down to 4 AU teams if we have to.
That’s it. fudge the Tahs. Scrap those plums I say and leave four supported teams.
grievous
Posts: 12357
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Tahstown

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by grievous »

RandomNavigat0r wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
RandomNavigat0r wrote: Well the sunwolves might have been going to GRR. It was reported that they were prior to their extension this year in SuperRugby. With both GRR and SuperRugby now up in the air anything could happen.

But the current 5 teams
Force
Waratahs
Reds
Rebels
Brumbies

Plus the 5 GRR sides:
Fiji Latui
Manuma Samoa
China Lions
South China Tigers
Malaysia Valke

Throw in
Sunwolves (if they still exist)
Future South Australia
Future Tonga

Then you have a pretty good and respectable 10 team comp without any NZL teams except Bay Of Plenty who play as the China Lions.

Then add South Australia in the future, and maybe a Tongan side and thats a pretty awesome 12/13 team comp without needing NZL. Then their media and fans can keep telling us how well their little 5 team circle jerk is going whilst we play in a proper comp.
What a stupid idea. And what an utterly ridiculous comp. The only thing "proper" about your suggested comp is that it's proper crap. RA won't touch that with a barge pole. That would be the worst pro comp imaginable. What kind of ratings do you think Future South Australia vs South China Tigers would generate in the key markets of Sydney, Melb and Brisbane?
If a South Australian based team emerged with the right recruiting. May be no worse than the Force or Rebels. But if we were to go domestic then just use the basic structure of the NRC. Move the current franchises in the places of Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra etc. and either run the two country teams as proper franchises with actual bases. Bring in the Drua/Lautui and there's 8 teams to start.

That would provide us with 14 weeks of regular competition and two of finals for a total of 58 games. Not perfect but certainly not bad. There's a lot of issues to overcome to achieve that. Not questioning that but this would be a solid jumping off point. Establish plans down the road to add 2 more teams and we'll be somewhere close to what we need.
I honestly really like that format. Throw in the GRR teams that still exist like Manuma Samoa and merge Fiji Latui with Fiji Drua, add one of the Chinese teams if they still exist so we can access the asian lucrative market and we are laughing.

Instead of having QLD country they could have maybe the Goldcoast, and the new Sydney team could maybe be Western Sydney instead of country so the Tahs encompass greater NSW and Eastern Sydney.

It would start to look like something the NRL has then and should accumulate wealth over time. South Australia could be a future project to add, they currently receive more funding than WA from RA so they should be able to scrape together a side to tap into the SA market.
Forget it, league struggles and AFL survives because they pour cash into the team. The club team in the Hospital Cup didn't survive.
grievous
Posts: 12357
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Tahstown

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by grievous »

Farva wrote:
Sensible Stephen wrote:I am with Farva, TT is the way to go. I don't mind going back down to 4 AU teams if we have to.
That’s it. fudge the Tahs. Scrap those plums I say and leave four supported teams.
Natural order if they finish last
Post Reply