Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

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Ellafan
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Ellafan »

Mullet 2 wrote:
Ellafan wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:How is a State of Union game any different from the Waratahs playing the Reds?
Message me on facebook and I'll explain it, you silly old bugger. er.

I'm not falling for that trick again

I've enough dick pics thanks
Yeah right.
towny
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by towny »

Ellafan wrote:
towny wrote:

Sadly, this is fantastic news for NZ Rugby. You guys will have a turf war played out in multiple industries all squabbling over the best content in town - rugby. You plums will be awash with silly money.

SKY will be an early casualty. If I was at McDisney, I would be telling them to do a deal with Optus or Vodaphone asap.
No Towny, no, they have the best rugby comp in the world. They dictate the price. Haven't you been listening?

They also have the best team - brand All Bleck.

McKinsey has told them. (1) Go hard, screw over your saanzaar partners, and while you at it, (2) it's time to screw over the home unions and WR and get the full worth of the All bleck's brand into your coffers.

You see. said McKinsey, they need you. They can't do without you. Because you are so precious.

....

Yeah right.

Image
:lol:

I doubt the McDisney plan will get NZR close to what The Hammer will. They’re paid per hour dudes working in a pyramid scheme and he’s the bloke they write case studies about. Plus, his plan will likely be far more than just bullying in order to get a bigger chunk of the currently conceived pie.
Dan54.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Dan54. »

towny wrote:Without the cables and set-top box, Sky is just another streaming service. That’s a battlefield with some of the worlds biggest companies going for the win - Netflix, Amazon, Disney....

SKY is going toe to toe with them? No lock-in? No contracts? And you think they’ll be around based on...... reasons.

They’re dead as disco. The only card they have is the rugby. It’s why they’ll be willing to pay overs for it. That’s great for NZR.
Well isn't Fox trying to go head to head with same companies with kayo? And Optus? I agree they all fighting big boys, but your argument seems to be around the fact that NZR tied in with Sky, seems RA putting a lot eggs in Optus basket too, if we are to believe the press releases form RA, and not the Optus boss who claimed Optus got no interest a few months ago.
I actually like Ralene's idea and now Hamish's idea of Optus and FTA , but all we reading is paper releases trying to put pressure on 5-5 TT, which is ok, that's how they choose to negotiate there nothing wrong in it. Seems strange that discussion on Super has developed into a big cock contest on how good or bad Sky tv etc is.
towny
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by towny »

Fox is farked. I’ve said that 100 times. I made it pretty clear that I think NZR is in a really good spot. Hopefully my prediction that a NZ company was going to struggle didn’t offend your sensibilities.

You cannot go head to head with Netflix and co with streaming because of economies of scale. They own all the good content, so you’re left with what they don’t want. The competitiveness of FTA and Cable TV is that they are prepared to pay more than sport is worth - it’s the only thing they actually can buy as Netflix and co don’t want it. There is great value in live sport but very little for non-live. This doesn’t suit Netflix business model. They don’t care how much they spend on content, because they can make the money back over and over for years in 100 countries. That’s why they can charge so little. Each time that someone watches this content - it costs Netflix nothing. Zero marginal cost. Every day, Netflix has more content and do they offer fractionally more value to customers, who are increasingly hard to win over.

Cable tv bundles live sport in with heaps of cheap crap, and overall it works out okay. But, this means they are utterly dependent on the live sport so they pay whatever they must to get it. More than it’s worth. Their profits slowly reduce and they can buy less and less of the cheap crap that they need to fill up the bundle. They don’t make money off the sport and people need more than old MASH episodes to pay $50/m. So it’s a spiral.

Streaming doesn’t cut the mustard because there is no bundle - Kayo is just sport. It’s okay as a side-business as it has zero marginal cost on top of what they’ve already paid for, but on its own it doesn’t stand up, because live sport costs more than its worth. For Kayo to provide just Rugby in Australia that would probaby need 100k subscribers paying $60 a month - they’d have to pay for all 12 months, which means months with nothing on. You can’t make the numbers work. And so that’s a spiral.

Almost all of the old media is dying. Few will make it - FTA will go on for a while. But Foxtel and SKY will be underwater very soon, if not already. And the ABs will get to wrong the last of the juice out of them to the end, before jumping on a better horse. Nice spot to be in.

Unless NZR try to be smart again and go for equity - that was just naive and cost them $15m. Just take the cash.
Dan54.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Dan54. »

Agree with most of it Towny, is Optus streaming going to cut it? If they have a bit of rugby and soccer, will that work? So are RA going wrong way in going to Optus. I know there was some talk a couple of years ago that NZR were in pretty serious discussions with Prime , think they may of used them to stream a couple of games?
RandomNavigat0r
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by RandomNavigat0r »

towny wrote:Fox is farked. I’ve said that 100 times. I made it pretty clear that I think NZR is in a really good spot. Hopefully my prediction that a NZ company was going to struggle didn’t offend your sensibilities.

You cannot go head to head with Netflix and co with streaming because of economies of scale. They own all the good content, so you’re left with what they don’t want. The competitiveness of FTA and Cable TV is that they are prepared to pay more than sport is worth - it’s the only thing they actually can buy as Netflix and co don’t want it. There is great value in live sport but very little for non-live. This doesn’t suit Netflix business model. They don’t care how much they spend on content, because they can make the money back over and over for years in 100 countries. That’s why they can charge so little. Each time that someone watches this content - it costs Netflix nothing. Zero marginal cost. Every day, Netflix has more content and do they offer fractionally more value to customers, who are increasingly hard to win over.

Cable tv bundles live sport in with heaps of cheap crap, and overall it works out okay. But, this means they are utterly dependent on the live sport so they pay whatever they must to get it. More than it’s worth. Their profits slowly reduce and they can buy less and less of the cheap crap that they need to fill up the bundle. They don’t make money off the sport and people need more than old MASH episodes to pay $50/m. So it’s a spiral.

Streaming doesn’t cut the mustard because there is no bundle - Kayo is just sport. It’s okay as a side-business as it has zero marginal cost on top of what they’ve already paid for, but on its own it doesn’t stand up, because live sport costs more than its worth. For Kayo to provide just Rugby in Australia that would probaby need 100k subscribers paying $60 a month - they’d have to pay for all 12 months, which means months with nothing on. You can’t make the numbers work. And so that’s a spiral.

Almost all of the old media is dying. Few will make it - FTA will go on for a while. But Foxtel and SKY will be underwater very soon, if not already. And the ABs will get to wrong the last of the juice out of them to the end, before jumping on a better horse. Nice spot to be in.

Unless NZR try to be smart again and go for equity - that was just naive and cost them $15m. Just take the cash.
How are they in a good position? Sure they may have a bidding war for their next domestic competition, but its bidding for horse shit, NZL have no realistic product for their domestic competition that wont go stale fast. Sure their All Blsck brand is valuable but it cant pay the bills for every level of competition they play at, and without a meaningful tier 2 comp the only bidding that will be happening is bidding for shit. I cant imagine a local 5 team circle jerk will have any value to take to broadcasters in years 3, 4 and 5. If people were getting bored of Super Rugby over the last 20 years it wouldnt surprise me if they are already sick of watching the same teams play over and over again and we are only in year 1. All I can say is good luck to them, I wouldnt want to be in their position to be fair, atleast Australia has a market for pro sport, NZL clearly doesnt.
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Zakar
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Zakar »

Dan54. wrote:Agree with most of it Towny, is Optus streaming going to cut it? If they have a bit of rugby and soccer, will that work? So are RA going wrong way in going to Optus. I know there was some talk a couple of years ago that NZR were in pretty serious discussions with Prime , think they may of used them to stream a couple of games?
Optus has 10.4m customers in Australia.

Foxtel has 2.2m.
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kiap
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by kiap »

Not sure what to make of this from Pandaram...
  • Cornered Kiwis may turn to Pasifika

    Jamie Pandaram, Senior Sports Writer
    8:06 PM August 11, 2020


    Quietly, behind the scenes, players of Pacific Island heritage in Australia and New Zealand have been asked about their eligibility for a Kiwi-based Pasifika Super Rugby team in 2021. And there has even been devious approaches from Kiwis to the Western Force about playing in a New Zealand domestic tournament.

    New Zealand Rugby have painted themselves in a corner after announcing plans for their Super Rugby competition that invited “expressions of interest” from Australian teams, making clear only two would be considered due to their lack of competitiveness.

    “We’ve got to do whatever we can to get competitive teams against our teams,” All Blacks coach Ian Foster told New Zealand’s Newshub a fortnight ago. “We‘re pretty secure in our five so once they (Australia) get their number, I guess we sit around and have a conversation.

    “It‘s got to be competitive, it’s got to be financially viable. We‘ve seen in the past (with Super Rugby) that if you let in teams that actually can’t survive, then you’ve got to keep changing the competition around.”

    To the surprise of the Kiwis and frankly most Aussies, Rugby Australia did not budge. RA chairman Hamish McLennan and interim chief Rob Clarke have made it clear it’s five Australian teams in a trans-Tasman competition, or they’ll snub the Kiwis and form their own domestic tournament. New Zealand hasn’t contacted them since.

    RA has business to sort out and is rightly pressuring their counterparts for an answer. Now, it appears the Kiwis are scrambling for an alternative to the Aussies’ preferred trans-Tasman model. But in doing so, they’re betraying the key tenets of their initial proposal, which is to field eight competitive teams and not water down the quality of their Super squads.

    A rushed together Pasifika team, comprised largely of off-contract or unsigned Islander players, is hardly going to challenge the Crusaders next year. There are reports two overseas teams may be interested in aligning with NZ’s tournament. If that doesn’t transpire the Kiwis would be forced to water down their Super squads by adding regional teams that compete in the ITM Cup.

    When New Zealand made their bold eight-team announcement, South African rugby boss Jurie Roux was caught off guard. “If anybody kicked anyone out of Super Rugby, it was New Zealand kicking themselves out,” Roux said.

    Perhaps the Kiwis made their big move and then expected Australia — desperate for a broadcast deal – to fall into line. That won’t happen. If the Kiwis come back, tail between legs, it will be the greatest takedown since George Gregan’s 1994 tackle on Jeff Wilson.

    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/ ... 322f555e0d
comments: show
Mark
3 hours ago
I hope RA stick to their guns

DOUG
5 hours ago
Australia sticking to 5 teams??? ...The mediocrity will continue ...NZ has made a honest assessment of our game and should only accept 3/4 teams in a trans tasman comp ...but typically our Aussie parochialism and ego gets in the way...amazed the force is now a non- negotiable aspect of a new competition..will we never learn .... if we revert to a domestic only comp like the current format then rugby truly is a second tier sport for good in this country

[list]Roger
3 hours ago
RA does not speak for, or control, the Western Force. You can’t negotiate about something you don’t own . I think that is a great thing.[/list]

Roger
5 hours ago (Edited)
Can’t wait for Global Rapid Rugby to start next year. Entertainment ,new rules, less never ending scrums, and a good night out as well.

Barry J
6 hours ago
NZ Super Rugby have been playing to mainly packed arenas. Super Ruby Aust has been playing to "spot the donkey" That sort of blows apart the idea that 25million will get more money for Aust.

Jason
6 hours ago
Excellent idea, Kiwis play for All-blacks, Aussies play for Wallabies, South Pacific plays for the South Pacific. Australia and New Zealand governments fund the development of both Fiji and broader barbarian squad through aid distributions. EVeryone is happy except for Australian administrators and coaches that may have to actually develop young players rather than import early developers.

[list]Rod
2 hours ago
Jason, I get what you are saying, but what about the son of Fijian parents who happens to be born in Brisbane (or Rotarua)? Or the Samoan family that moves to Sydney (or Auckland) with a son not yet at school? Do we deny those boys the chance to play for their adopted country and do we deny their adopted country the chance to benefit from their talent?
[/list]

Warren
6 hours ago
NZ has five very competitive sides , they don’t need ours.
If I were them I’d pursue the Force, Fiji and perhaps the Brumbies.
Let McLennan, Clark, NSW and the Reds play with themselves. They are good at it.

David
8 hours ago
NZ has not "quietly" been asking about Pasifica players. It has said publicly it is considering such a team and of course its invite to the Western Force is for the ITM competition. Pasifika players already in New Zealand but not in the current Super squads is an obvious option.
The NZ Super competition has been a huge success attracting bigger crowds than some Bledisloe Cup games. It is nonsense to suggest NZ has "painted itself into a corner" which is actually what Australia has done. Kiwis won't be interested in watching most of the current Australian super teams playing over there. We can have a formidable test team but you only have to watch the games to see we cannot be competitive in Super rugby overseas with talent spread over five teams. Not enough of it. Jamie is sabre rattling

Kathryn
9 hours ago
It is quite simple - first and foremost you need public interest and this comes with sizable regional loyalties from real rugby fans - New Zealand and South Africa can point to 4 or 5 centres of that nature; Australia 2 only.

If professional rugby is the other requirement then that brings with it broad coverage via digital networks and cost recovery. Here Australia is in a stronger position.

Actually not so simple as the two major requirements work against each other - but I believe we cannot be a little bit pregnant on either issue.

Push me to choose? Drop full time professionalism and focus getting back the real core fan base in each country.

Michael B

Nick
9 hours ago
Funny that the Rebels beat the Highlanders, the Brumbies beat the Chiefs and the Reds should have beaten the Crusaders all in NZ prior to the initial lockdown. If we haev to stand alone add a team from Adealide (during super rugby league they had a team and very good crowds), a team from Japan and the Dura.

[list]David
8 hours ago
shoulda coulda woulda

DOUG
5 hours ago
whats the number of wins over kiwis since 2015 ? or are we counting " near " wins ...less than 10 in 5 years..appalling record[/list]

Barry J
9 hours ago
Until Australian rugby wakes up to themselves and faces the facts they will continue to wallow in self pity while blaming NZ rugby for the lack of talent in Aust.

[list]John
8 hours ago
So kiwis keep telling us, over and over and over and over and over.

Why is it that kiwis are so manically obsessed about Australia having NZ coaches and administrators, and bad mouthing Australians and Australian rugby every single day ?

It’s like there is some propaganda arm of the NZRFU designated to constantly try and brainwash Australians in to believing they are no good and that only kiwis can save them.

Something I have long suspected.

No country would be so obsessed with a constant Roar of kiwis, day after day after day, year after year after year, trying to drag Australian rugby down. Surely ?

OJ

[list]Marty
7 hours ago
I'm not sure writing about obsession really works as people start to look a bit deeper and it starts to go in one ear and out the other. The kiwis don't employ those working here. We do.

Barry J
5 hours ago
OJ, I don't care if Aust has a reincarnated Vince Lombardi coaching them. Every coach needs talent to be successful. Aust had a golden era from '86 to 01. Then player power took hold.

Ian
5 hours ago
NZ is obsessed with rugby union. It's sad how limited their national conversation is when the only topic they want to discuss is their national religion. And it's boring too ... start a conversation with a Kiwi and if you can't talk about rugby they really have nothing to say, the silence descends.

jules
5 hours ago
OJ, as long as you keep inventing & believing this NZ conspiracy stuff rather than looking objectively at why we're struggling, the kiwis will continue to laud it over us. NZ rugby needs us but one-sided games will lose the crowds so the template need to be right from the start. Chopping & changing the format over the years has lost too many fans everywhere.
[/list]
[/list]

Stephen
9 hours ago
In NZ, the Chiefs have not won a game, not one, the Highlanders have won 2.
NZRU want to tell us that if we combined all of the best players playing in Aus that we could only get 2 teams.
It may well be true that today we are pushing it to have 5 teams but if the professional rugby players playing in France, England and Japan came back or even just half of them, we would be fine. If we had not lost so many good rugby players to League over the last 5 years we would be fine.
The point is if we get our house in order we can have 5 but then we start to beat NZ, they don’t want that.

[list]John
8 hours ago
How can the kiwis justify keeping the Auckland Blues ? They have been completely and utterly hopeless for a decade or more. So what if they have fluked a couple of wins this year because the other kiwi teams have been so bad ?
OJ

[list]Stephen
7 hours ago
That was the point I was making, the Highlanders only 2 wins were against the Chiefs, the Blues wins were against Chiefs 2, Highlanders 2 and one with the Hurricanes.
Only the Hurricanes and Crusaders have beaten every other team.
So it would seem NZ may be good for about 2 or 3 teams.

[list]Gragar
5 hours ago
Either you haven't watched the games or you are not a good judge. The games have brought quality performances which promote interest in rugby. The obsession with winning is not helping form a strong comp.
The Force was ditched for finance and quality reasons now the call is for them to return. That's great. They have the finance now but not much else has changed while they have been away playing kick and giggle rugby.

Rod
3 hours ago
Stephen, having watched every SR NZ and SR AU game I reckon the Chiefs would still beat three if not four of the SR AU sides. Sadly, the overall standard of rugby over there eclipses what we can offer these days.[/list]
[/list][/list]

Ray
11 hours ago
The Kiwis as usual have a point, and that is that the standard of rugby in Australia is at a very low ebb thanks to the disastrous reign of Clyne and Castle. However I think it is in their long-term interests to bear with us as we start the arduous process of rebuilding the game in Australia, it can and will be done but will take some years of hard work. And playing against the best players in the world is crucial for our redevelopment.

[list]Mick
3 hours ago
The rot set in a long time before those two incompetents were at the helm. But I agree, playing against the best is great, but continually losing against the best is soul-destroying for an athlete. Our elite should be just that, elite. We can field two, possibly three sides who can be consistently competitive. And before anyone comments that we beat the kiwi's earlier this year, the for-and-against between 2015 and February 2020 was 46 wins to one on New Zealand soil.[/list]

Henry
11 hours ago
"To the surprise of the Kiwis and frankly most Aussies.." Not this Aussie and I doubt many. You're off the mark here, Jamie.

Michael
12 hours ago
I sense the tide is turning.

Katie
12 hours ago
The proposed new competition which looks the most promising and interesting is not the tired outdated 5/5 NZ Australia but the new proposed Super 8 competition comprising 2 teams from Australia, 2 teams from NZ, 2 teams from South Africa and 1 team from Japan and South America to be played over four weeks The costs involved in running the proposed 5/5 Au/NZ competition and the lack of major public support in both countries should influence RA more heavily than they apparently do.

[list]Stephen
9 hours ago
No - the NZ proposal is 5 teams from NZ.

[list]Katie
7 hours ago (Edited)
There are various options[/list]
[/list]

Steve
15 hours ago
The arrogant kiwis tried a bluff and bluster and it's blown up in their faces, as it did in 2003 concerning the hosting of the RWC.
They believe that pre-eminence in on-field performance equates to off-field expertise, but the reality is that they have a high quality rugby team but a low quality administration.

Chris
16 hours ago
NZRU overplayed their hand. Even with rugby not the main code Australia still has a bigger economy and more backing. It can still work out but “park your egos at the door man”

[list]David
8 hours ago
NZ haven't played their hand yet. Keep up with the play

Mick
3 hours ago
I think they may end up scoring just before the final hooter Chris, just like they always do when we appear to be just ahead. We are just not in any position to dictate anything! RA are looking and acting tough but will capitulate, they know we aren't competitive and they know the game is dying. Methinks they will show a brave face for the punters and end up cutting Melbourne and the Force. Those teams may end up playing in the kiwi domestic competition so there may be a silver lining.
[/list]

Cristy
18 hours ago
Australian rugby playing domestically with 5 teams is weakened and watered down. Time they looked in the mirror and tried to build with 2-3 strong teams and used a promotion relegation system to incentive the building of the others. There position of wanting 5 teams involved just weakens everyone.

[list]John
8 hours ago
Kiwis don’t want Australia to have a large pool of players to select from. Pure and simple.
If we could just get rid of a few kiwi coaches we might go much better
OJ[/list]

Stephen
18 hours ago
Great to see Clarke and McLennan flexing some muscle. We are a nation of 26million and shouldn’t be dictated to by the Kiwis, who owe a huge part of their success to us.
Bravo RA.

Angus
19 hours ago (Edited)
The reality for NZ is that, if Australian teams don’t join their comp, the Kiwis will have to go it alone with 5 teams ( not sustainable) - or they will have to bring in some lesser quality teams from the Mitre Cup, PI or Japan (none of which will be very strong). That would contradict the whole reason NZ went down this track in the first place. The whole expressions of interest thing is starting to look a little silly.

[list]Jamie
18 hours ago
silly or arrogant?

[list]Simon
7 hours ago
Both[/list]

Katie
7 hours ago
NZs plan is to have a domestic competition with the Crusaders Blues Hurricanes, Chiefs and Highlanders with the two top teams competing against the two top teams from Australia South Africa and 1 team from Japan and South America over a four week period. This has the advantage of reducing the cost of travel, and providing a wider international TV audience for the TV networks Why is this so problematic for Australia?[/list]

Mick
2 hours ago
But they don't need us, that's the point. Their competition is absolutely brilliant with those five teams!! The ratings and crowds suggest this will continue to be a success and is most definitely sustainable. I would be interested in how you think it is not?
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shanky
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by shanky »

I expect it means that Foxtel want NZ to join the party.
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Ellafan
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Ellafan »

And there has even been devious approaches from Kiwis to the Western Force about playing in a New Zealand domestic tournament.
One infers that can only mean the NPC.

Why would NZR invite the Force to play in the NPC?

Discuss.
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kiap
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by kiap »

Ellafan wrote:
And there has even been devious approaches from Kiwis to the Western Force about playing in a New Zealand domestic tournament.
One infers that can only mean the NPC.

Why would NZR invite the Force to play in the NPC?

Discuss.
Dunno. Increase the the length of their out-of-state tour from 10 weeks to 20 weeks plus?

Reduce the SR-Au teams to four?
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BlueThunder
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by BlueThunder »

Hopefully this is all posturing and bargaining from the NZRU. I would be happy to see 5 Aussie teams in a trans Tasman competition. We need to stick together against the northern fuckwrs. We can't afford more than 5 fully professional teams. New Zealanders that want to limit Australia's options are being shortsighted.
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Ellafan
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Ellafan »

kiap wrote:
Ellafan wrote:
And there has even been devious approaches from Kiwis to the Western Force about playing in a New Zealand domestic tournament.
One infers that can only mean the NPC.

Why would NZR invite the Force to play in the NPC?

Discuss.
Dunno. Increase the the length of their out-of-state tour from 10 weeks to 20 weeks plus?

Reduce the SR-Au teams to four?
I'm am thinking the latter as one possibility.

Surely, though they are not so stupid as to think they will get anywhere trying to bypass RA and interfere internally in RA's teams?

They would have be pretty thick-headed to not get the message after Roger Davis showed them door.

Maybe McKinsey told them to take steps to kill GRR because it diverted PI attention from the 6th NZ SR side in South Auckland?
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shanky
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by shanky »

No offence to anyone, but GRR was pants

Going nowhere, a tax deduction for Mindaroo perhaps
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Ellafan
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Ellafan »

shanky wrote:No offence to anyone, but GRR was pants

Going nowhere, a tax deduction for Mindaroo perhaps
Yes covid might have seen it quietly fade.

Maybe McKinsey told NZR that they could get their grubby fingers into the Mindaroo PE cash tin if they gave Twiggy a polish up.

Good luck with that.
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Working Class Rugger
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Working Class Rugger »

Could someone explain to me how the Asia-Pacific Dragons would be more competitive than the Force let alone any of the other four Aussie teams? Because next to the Hawaiian dream team and two bids from Auckland they appear to be one of the interested parties in joining SRA.

I'm not trolling in the slightest when I say this. But if these are the EOI's they've received then NZR have majorly f**ked up here. And probably should have a broom put through them for essentially alienating the one source of stable and yes, competitive, teams in RA.
Last edited by Working Class Rugger on Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kiap
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by kiap »

Image
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Working Class Rugger
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Working Class Rugger »

kiap wrote:Image
He looks like a Trolls doll with a buzz cut.
grievous
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by grievous »

Tick, tick, tick NZ
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kiwigreg369
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by kiwigreg369 »

It’s like a human centipede watching you guys lick each other’s bums...
The fact you’ve allowed grevious in as part of the circle is telling.


Remember the Aussie plan is to offer more money to NZ which is clear evidence of the value of respective parties.
——-

WCR - I agree, the force have been close, but are clearly a poor fifth. I can’t see a new team being at that level for years.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Working Class Rugger »

kiwigreg369 wrote:It’s like a human centipede watching you guys lick each other’s bums...
The fact you’ve allowed grevious in as part of the circle is telling.


Remember the Aussie plan is to offer more money to NZ which is clear evidence of the value of respective parties.
——-

WCR - I agree, the force have been close, but are clearly a poor fifth. I can’t see a new team being at that level for years.
You don't see the offer as a measure designed to get NZ on board with the 5/5 split model? Because I'd posit that it's exactly why it was offered.

As for the Force. They are competing with a squad not composed with SR in mind for the most part. There were and are still some significant defiencies in their squad. But they aren't insurmountable. I've said this previously but the Force if involved in a 10 team 5/5 TT competition should be allow to source talent from foreign sources and not just in an effort to feed the Wallabies. With the only stipulation being that they maintain the pathway for local talent much as they've done.

If in any one game day squad there are only 8 or so WA locals in the squad but those 8 are of the required standard and the team is competitive then thats a success. On a number of fronts. From a Australia n Rugby perspective it lessens the load on NSW and Qld to produce talent and from a WA perspective it would gi E them a competitive team to follow for fans and strive towards for players.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Of course it is - but it indicates the relative strengths of each party.

—-

I agree on the Force, but would still take them a couple of years to be properly competitive.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Working Class Rugger »

kiwigreg369 wrote:Of course it is - but it indicates the relative strengths of each party.

—-

I agree on the Force, but would still take them a couple of years to be properly competitive.
It indicates that RA are willing to make a deal to get the most logical competition over the line. Giving NZ an larger share of any PE invested in order to realise the mutual benefits of such a structure.

It may take the Force a couple of seasons to get to the the level where they are SR standard. Sure. But that could be applied to any of the PI proposals. The Force would likely get their sooner thanks to existing infrastructure and a money bags owner. Especially if given licence to build the best possible side without the restrictions of eligibility or cap considerations.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by grievous »

kiwigreg369 wrote:It’s like a human centipede watching you guys lick each other’s bums...
Youre one weird dude
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by tubbyj »

So it seems the NZR is working on 2 plans

A compromise with AR, 9 teams 5 NZ + 4 Aussie (Warratahs, Reds, Brumbies and Rebels) the concession being the Force plays in the NZ domestic competition until Australian rugby improves and can justify 5 teams. 4 games a weekend one on Friday, 2 on Saturday night, one on Sunday Afternoon and a bye.

or

Super Rugby Aotearoa continues but with a 6th Pacifica team. 3 games a weekend, one on Friday night, one on Saturday and one on Sunday afternoon. I expect alot of Australian players with Pacific heritage may move to this competition for the higher standard initially but as the RA competition goes bankrupt it will be financially motivated. Eventually they could have a Aussie Barbarians style team as well to allow the bye each weekend based in Sydney picking up the remnants of Australian professional rugby and keeping the game alive over there. If this goes well they could have one in Sydney and one in Queensland in a decade or so all administered by NZR where people live with reality not in fantasy.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by shanky »

Um yeah, because NZR is so financially stable by comparison.

NZR says SRA isn’t sustainable as a stand-alone

https://amp.tvnz.co.nz/news/story/JTJGY ... 56ci1zcmE=
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Dan54. »

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... 55m0y.html

Is this going to make for interesting reading around the negotiating table?
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by shanky »

Dan54. wrote:https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... 55m0y.html

Is this going to make for interesting reading around the negotiating table?
Let’s be honest. Neither comp is remotely sustainable at anything approaching ‘traditional’ levels of finance.

They need each other. They will do the deal at some point. There will be compromise and face-saving on both sides.

The rest is sabre-rattling.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Dan54. »

shanky wrote:
Dan54. wrote:https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... 55m0y.html

Is this going to make for interesting reading around the negotiating table?
Let’s be honest. Neither comp is remotely sustainable at anything approaching ‘traditional’ levels of finance.

They need each other. They will do the deal at some point. There will be compromise and face-saving on both sides.

The rest is sabre-rattling.
Yep, I sure it is, but not sure Tahs possibly weakening their player depth because of money is good stuff to take to the table when you trying to get comp going. I not sure why they released it just now.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by grievous »

tubbyj wrote:So it seems the NZR is working on 2 plans

A compromise with AR, 9 teams 5 NZ + 4 Aussie (Warratahs, Reds, Brumbies and Rebels) the concession being the Force plays in the NZ domestic competition until Australian rugby improves and can justify 5 teams. 4 games a weekend one on Friday, 2 on Saturday night, one on Sunday Afternoon and a bye.

or

Super Rugby Aotearoa continues but with a 6th Pacifica team. 3 games a weekend, one on Friday night, one on Saturday and one on Sunday afternoon. I expect alot of Australian players with Pacific heritage may move to this competition for the higher standard initially but as the RA competition goes bankrupt it will be financially motivated. Eventually they could have a Aussie Barbarians style team as well to allow the bye each weekend based in Sydney picking up the remnants of Australian professional rugby and keeping the game alive over there. If this goes well they could have one in Sydney and one in Queensland in a decade or so all administered by NZR where people live with reality not in fantasy.
so nothing really then, thanks
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by shanky »

The Tah system is broken

NSW produces the majority of all the young talent going around. They have the pick of the cherries.
Still manage to end up paying overs for players from other States or codes or countries.

It has taken a slight turn for the better this year with the fresh blood coming in. Why we are paying Hooper $1m while broke, with barely any competing bids, while we have 2-3 other perfectly serviceable alternatives, is beyond me.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by RandomNavigat0r »

shanky wrote:Um yeah, because NZR is so financially stable by comparison.

NZR says SRA isn’t sustainable as a stand-alone

https://amp.tvnz.co.nz/news/story/JTJGY ... 56ci1zcmE=
We have been saying it all along. Whilst all the kiwis on this forum harp on and on, and on ad nauseum about how fantastic it is playing with themselves twice a week, they then ignore all the obvious issues around it being a sustainable pro comp, which it isnt. As ive said all along NZ has never ever successfully run a pro competition, they dont understand the economics of it, there is this weird mindset that the real world doesnt exist outside their little bubble. The are getting a reality check, didnt take them long to come crawling back begging for an alternative. Looks like the NZR are now willing to look at additional NZ super rugby sides being created, and other obvious things that were clearly pointed out to them before they arrogantly dug themselves a hole.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by grievous »

RandomNavigat0r wrote:
shanky wrote:Um yeah, because NZR is so financially stable by comparison.

NZR says SRA isn’t sustainable as a stand-alone

https://amp.tvnz.co.nz/news/story/JTJGY ... 56ci1zcmE=
We have been saying it all along. Whilst all the kiwis on this forum harp on and on, and on ad nauseum about how fantastic it is playing with themselves twice a week, they then ignore all the obvious issues around it being a sustainable pro comp, which it isnt. As ive said all along NZ has never ever successfully run a pro competition, they dont understand the economics of it, there is this weird mindset that the real world doesnt exist outside their little bubble. The are getting a reality check, didnt take them long to come crawling back begging for an alternative. Looks like the NZR are now willing to look at additional NZ super rugby sides being created, and other obvious things that were clearly pointed out to them before they arrogantly dug themselves a hole.
What have they come back on as an alternative? Haven't seen anything official.
One thing is certain, NZR have looked stupid thinking RA would just rollover to what they wanted, although this probably would of happened under Castle's regime.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Working Class Rugger »

tubbyj wrote:So it seems the NZR is working on 2 plans

A compromise with AR, 9 teams 5 NZ + 4 Aussie (Warratahs, Reds, Brumbies and Rebels) the concession being the Force plays in the NZ domestic competition until Australian rugby improves and can justify 5 teams. 4 games a weekend one on Friday, 2 on Saturday night, one on Sunday Afternoon and a bye.

or

Super Rugby Aotearoa continues but with a 6th Pacifica team. 3 games a weekend, one on Friday night, one on Saturday and one on Sunday afternoon. I expect alot of Australian players with Pacific heritage may move to this competition for the higher standard initially but as the RA competition goes bankrupt it will be financially motivated. Eventually they could have a Aussie Barbarians style team as well to allow the bye each weekend based in Sydney picking up the remnants of Australian professional rugby and keeping the game alive over there. If this goes well they could have one in Sydney and one in Queensland in a decade or so all administered by NZR where people live with reality not in fantasy.
The first one isn't a compromise. It's essentially just their original plan of 8-10 teams. It even leaves room for a PI team to make it 10 which will likely be at the same level of the Force anyway. The offer of the Force playing in the M10 (I assume that's what they are offering) is a load of rubbish. RA have made it clear it's 5 or nothing.

The Force have a f**king billionaire owner who runs it through his philanthropic arm in order to provide him tax benefits. Encourage him on that. So the Force can be brought up to standard by RA giving licence to recruit talent overseas (ideally Aus players but anyone really).

You're second scenario is complete bullshit.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by grievous »

Working Class Rugger wrote:
tubbyj wrote:So it seems the NZR is working on 2 plans

A compromise with AR, 9 teams 5 NZ + 4 Aussie (Warratahs, Reds, Brumbies and Rebels) the concession being the Force plays in the NZ domestic competition until Australian rugby improves and can justify 5 teams. 4 games a weekend one on Friday, 2 on Saturday night, one on Sunday Afternoon and a bye.

or

Super Rugby Aotearoa continues but with a 6th Pacifica team. 3 games a weekend, one on Friday night, one on Saturday and one on Sunday afternoon. I expect alot of Australian players with Pacific heritage may move to this competition for the higher standard initially but as the RA competition goes bankrupt it will be financially motivated. Eventually they could have a Aussie Barbarians style team as well to allow the bye each weekend based in Sydney picking up the remnants of Australian professional rugby and keeping the game alive over there. If this goes well they could have one in Sydney and one in Queensland in a decade or so all administered by NZR where people live with reality not in fantasy.
The first one isn't a compromise. It's essentially just their original plan of 8-10 teams. It even leaves room for a PI team to make it 10 which will likely be at the same level of the Force anyway. The offer of the Force playing in the M10 (I assume that's what they are offering) is a load of rubbish. RA have made it clear it's 5 or nothing.

The Force have a f**king billionaire owner who runs it through his philanthropic arm in order to provide him tax benefits. Encourage him on that. So the Force can be brought up to standard by RA giving licence to recruit talent overseas (ideally Aus players but anyone really).

You're second scenario is complete bullshit.
I think Kiwis lie awake a night thinking up alternative plans that can insult the Oz rugby the most.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by kiap »

Dan54. wrote:Yep, I sure it is, but not sure Tahs possibly weakening their player depth because of money is good stuff to take to the table when you trying to get comp going. I not sure why they released it just now.
A bit of honesty in this situation is better than faking it - because the old normal is gone.

Two things, however ... First, the decision not to go on a spending mission is due to the income unknowns, pending a decision on what competition will exist next year. Second, their room under the cap is due to players already gone and going. The level they're playing with youngsters now has room under the cap.

The will to spend more depends on a competition deal and subsequent share of that, which won't be firming up for at least another month.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by kiap »

tubbyj wrote:So it seems the NZR is working on 2 plans.
Any link on this?

i.e. relatively recent...
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by UncleFB »

grievous wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
tubbyj wrote:So it seems the NZR is working on 2 plans

A compromise with AR, 9 teams 5 NZ + 4 Aussie (Warratahs, Reds, Brumbies and Rebels) the concession being the Force plays in the NZ domestic competition until Australian rugby improves and can justify 5 teams. 4 games a weekend one on Friday, 2 on Saturday night, one on Sunday Afternoon and a bye.

or

Super Rugby Aotearoa continues but with a 6th Pacifica team. 3 games a weekend, one on Friday night, one on Saturday and one on Sunday afternoon. I expect alot of Australian players with Pacific heritage may move to this competition for the higher standard initially but as the RA competition goes bankrupt it will be financially motivated. Eventually they could have a Aussie Barbarians style team as well to allow the bye each weekend based in Sydney picking up the remnants of Australian professional rugby and keeping the game alive over there. If this goes well they could have one in Sydney and one in Queensland in a decade or so all administered by NZR where people live with reality not in fantasy.
The first one isn't a compromise. It's essentially just their original plan of 8-10 teams. It even leaves room for a PI team to make it 10 which will likely be at the same level of the Force anyway. The offer of the Force playing in the M10 (I assume that's what they are offering) is a load of rubbish. RA have made it clear it's 5 or nothing.

The Force have a f**king billionaire owner who runs it through his philanthropic arm in order to provide him tax benefits. Encourage him on that. So the Force can be brought up to standard by RA giving licence to recruit talent overseas (ideally Aus players but anyone really).

You're second scenario is complete bullshit.
I think Kiwis lie awake a night thinking up alternative plans that can insult the Oz rugby the most.
I like to think they read this thread and are just trolling the hell out of all the Oz poster.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Dan54. »

kiap wrote:
tubbyj wrote:So it seems the NZR is working on 2 plans.
Any link on this?

i.e. relatively recent...
I was wondering the same thing kiap, I sure haven't found any yet. Is this just an idea someone has come up with here?
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Ellafan »

Dan54. wrote:
kiap wrote:
tubbyj wrote:So it seems the NZR is working on 2 plans.
Any link on this?

i.e. relatively recent...
I was wondering the same thing kiap, I sure haven't found any yet. Is this just an idea someone has come up with here?
There are definitely two plans ...

But the second part is getting proper recompense for the ABs filling NH stadiums for 5 weeks every November/December.

At a realistic US$2 millon per week, that's a not inconsiderable payday.
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