Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

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grievous
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Tahstown

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by grievous »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:51 pm
grievous wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:21 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:38 am Yes - it could be. Depends what trying to achieve, but yes.
The relationship isn’t that great - clear view (remember Steve Hansen bleating about it) that Aus have not supported NZ despite the NZ RFU propping up Aus over parts of the last century.

The advice to look after themselves comes directly from JO’N.

It’s not in NZs interest to develop depth in Aussie player base, or play Aussie teams when they are just not good enough. Clearly the $$ are of interest...
Looks like you've swallowed all that hook line and sinker, Im not really surprised.
Anyway, NZR didn't get their way so deal with it.
Grevie - look at the RA website.
Look at the history tab.
RA call it out themselves.
They’re the ones calling FACT.
Learn your own history.
I looked what am I looking for? Between the claims that NZ has propped us as a rugby nation to we stole your WC to anything that Hansen says we did ...I cant keep up.
RandomNavigat0r
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Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:32 am

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by RandomNavigat0r »

Western Force doing what it believes is right for themselves after being burned by RA in the past.
Western Force admits it is sounding out NZ

WAYNE SMITH
RUGBY UNION

AN HOUR AGO SEPTEMBER 7, 2020
NO COMMENTS

The Western Force have acknowledged the possibility that they could be based in New Zealand next year as part of Super Rugby Aotearoa, even as reports filter across the Tasman that there will be some cross-over fixtures against Kiwi sides at the end of the domestic competitions.

Matt Hodgson, the former Force skipper who has become head of Andrew Forrest’s Global Rapid Rugby, told The Australian on Monday that the Perth club was anxiously awaiting some formal decisions about what the 2021 season and beyond would look like before deciding which path to take.

“There are many things to go through,” Hodgson said. “Obviously if we are in NZ we’ve probably got to be based in there because the trans-Tasman travel budget will be up by the time you start planning these things. It’s an interesting one.”


Rugby Australia appears to have only the vaguest idea that the Force is even considering relocating to NZ but clearly, if that was to happen, it would have immense ramifications for Australian rugby. For starters, it would mean there would be only four professional franchises remaining here – the NSW Waratahs, Queensland Reds, the Brumbies and the Melbourne Rebels – which would leave the Super Rugby AU competition next year light one team, possibly two.

There have been reports of the Sunwolves returning to play in Australia but there are a staggering amount of logistical problems to be overcome before that happens. It has not even been decided yet whether a Japanese side is even needed; and if it is, would it need to relocate to Australia or might it be possible for them to play some matches at home.

It might seem ingratitude by the Force to even be contemplating a trans-Tasman move after they have just been invited back into the Australian rugby fold. Yet it was not charity behind RA’s invitation but a crass need for a fifth team to give the Super Rugby AU competition credibility. After being unceremoniously culled from Super Rugby in 2017, the Force does not owe RA anything.

“Whatever we are presented with, we will take the best option for the Western Force, that’s for sure,” Hodgson said. “We can’t just look at what 2021 is going to present but what does the future hold. That’s where we need to look at it. Align ourselves to make sure that the Western Force is secure in whatever path we take.”

There seems no malice in the Force sounding out the NZ Rugby. But after spending three traumatic years on the outer, they can hardly be blamed for now using Forrest’s considerable financial might to their own advantage.

“I just think we have to weigh up everything. I think we were very pleased to be back this year and playing football. At the start of the year there might have been the option of not playing any football. We are just waiting to be presented with what it looks like from multiple different avenues. I think everyone is waiting to see what the proposal from Rugby Australia is and the like.”

One of the options is for the leading teams in the NZ and Australian competitions to play cross-over finals at the end of the 2021 season, an idea the Kiwis appear to be now embracing. Indeed, resistance to a full trans-Tasman competition in 2022, with all five Australian teams and a Pasifika side, appears to have faded away.

A NZ-based Force would thoroughly test the loyalty of the famed Sea of Blue, the ferociously-dedicated organisation of club fans. It would mean a second season in which the Force would not play a serious competition match on WA soil. And yet even if that disappointment could be overcome, the time difference between NZ and Perth presents fundamental problems. A 7pm kick-off in Auckland on a Friday night converts to 3pm on a working day in Perth. And even if the Force could arrange for all their matches to be played on a Saturday, a 3pm kick-off would still cut directly across WA club rugby fixtures.

The upside, however, would be that the Force would be exposed to a full year of NZ competition ahead of the 2022 season when, as reported in The Australian, the domestic competitions will give way to a trans-Tasman series.

The Force finished the Super Rugby AU competition unluckily without a win, eight straight losses, and there is no question that they would need to bolster their playing strength immeasurably to survive against the likes of the Crusaders and the Blues. As it happens, though, they look like being immeasurably stronger next year.

Coach Tim Sampson admitted they had attempted to recruit disgruntled Wallabies second-rower Izack Rodda for this year’s domestic competition and while they failed, they would be pursuing him for next season. “Matt and I have put a list together,” Sampson said.

Hodgson acknowledged the club would indeed be pursuing Rodda, but a whole lot of other players beside. “You only have to look at the ability of the player and the status of that position in Australia at the moment, we’d be silly not to look at someone like him,” said Hodgson, adding that the two other Queensland “defectors”, Harry Hocking and Isaac Lucas, were also likely to be approached.

“Yeah and you’d look at Will Skelton, you’d look at multiple players over there. We are definitely in the market for those kinds of players and we would work closely with Rugby Australia if they wanted those players to come back and play for the Wallabies.”

Certainly RA is excited by the prospect of using Force funds to bring home such overseas-based players as Rory Arnold, Adam Coleman, Sean McMahon and Liam Gill, but they also need to be wary that because the Forrest-owned club does not have any financial constraints on it, they could be creating a superclub in Perth.
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Zakar
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Zakar »

:lol:
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Ellafan
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Ellafan »

Zakar wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:00 am :lol:
Wayne Smith ... :roll:
grievous
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by grievous »

RandomNavigat0r wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:55 am Western Force doing what it believes is right for themselves after being burned by RA in the past.
Western Force admits it is sounding out NZ

WAYNE SMITH
RUGBY UNION

AN HOUR AGO SEPTEMBER 7, 2020
NO COMMENTS

The Western Force have acknowledged the possibility that they could be based in New Zealand next year as part of Super Rugby Aotearoa, even as reports filter across the Tasman that there will be some cross-over fixtures against Kiwi sides at the end of the domestic competitions.

Matt Hodgson, the former Force skipper who has become head of Andrew Forrest’s Global Rapid Rugby, told The Australian on Monday that the Perth club was anxiously awaiting some formal decisions about what the 2021 season and beyond would look like before deciding which path to take.

“There are many things to go through,” Hodgson said. “Obviously if we are in NZ we’ve probably got to be based in there because the trans-Tasman travel budget will be up by the time you start planning these things. It’s an interesting one.”


Rugby Australia appears to have only the vaguest idea that the Force is even considering relocating to NZ but clearly, if that was to happen, it would have immense ramifications for Australian rugby. For starters, it would mean there would be only four professional franchises remaining here – the NSW Waratahs, Queensland Reds, the Brumbies and the Melbourne Rebels – which would leave the Super Rugby AU competition next year light one team, possibly two.

There have been reports of the Sunwolves returning to play in Australia but there are a staggering amount of logistical problems to be overcome before that happens. It has not even been decided yet whether a Japanese side is even needed; and if it is, would it need to relocate to Australia or might it be possible for them to play some matches at home.

It might seem ingratitude by the Force to even be contemplating a trans-Tasman move after they have just been invited back into the Australian rugby fold. Yet it was not charity behind RA’s invitation but a crass need for a fifth team to give the Super Rugby AU competition credibility. After being unceremoniously culled from Super Rugby in 2017, the Force does not owe RA anything.

“Whatever we are presented with, we will take the best option for the Western Force, that’s for sure,” Hodgson said. “We can’t just look at what 2021 is going to present but what does the future hold. That’s where we need to look at it. Align ourselves to make sure that the Western Force is secure in whatever path we take.”

There seems no malice in the Force sounding out the NZ Rugby. But after spending three traumatic years on the outer, they can hardly be blamed for now using Forrest’s considerable financial might to their own advantage.

“I just think we have to weigh up everything. I think we were very pleased to be back this year and playing football. At the start of the year there might have been the option of not playing any football. We are just waiting to be presented with what it looks like from multiple different avenues. I think everyone is waiting to see what the proposal from Rugby Australia is and the like.”

One of the options is for the leading teams in the NZ and Australian competitions to play cross-over finals at the end of the 2021 season, an idea the Kiwis appear to be now embracing. Indeed, resistance to a full trans-Tasman competition in 2022, with all five Australian teams and a Pasifika side, appears to have faded away.

A NZ-based Force would thoroughly test the loyalty of the famed Sea of Blue, the ferociously-dedicated organisation of club fans. It would mean a second season in which the Force would not play a serious competition match on WA soil. And yet even if that disappointment could be overcome, the time difference between NZ and Perth presents fundamental problems. A 7pm kick-off in Auckland on a Friday night converts to 3pm on a working day in Perth. And even if the Force could arrange for all their matches to be played on a Saturday, a 3pm kick-off would still cut directly across WA club rugby fixtures.

The upside, however, would be that the Force would be exposed to a full year of NZ competition ahead of the 2022 season when, as reported in The Australian, the domestic competitions will give way to a trans-Tasman series.

The Force finished the Super Rugby AU competition unluckily without a win, eight straight losses, and there is no question that they would need to bolster their playing strength immeasurably to survive against the likes of the Crusaders and the Blues. As it happens, though, they look like being immeasurably stronger next year.

Coach Tim Sampson admitted they had attempted to recruit disgruntled Wallabies second-rower Izack Rodda for this year’s domestic competition and while they failed, they would be pursuing him for next season. “Matt and I have put a list together,” Sampson said.

Hodgson acknowledged the club would indeed be pursuing Rodda, but a whole lot of other players beside. “You only have to look at the ability of the player and the status of that position in Australia at the moment, we’d be silly not to look at someone like him,” said Hodgson, adding that the two other Queensland “defectors”, Harry Hocking and Isaac Lucas, were also likely to be approached.

“Yeah and you’d look at Will Skelton, you’d look at multiple players over there. We are definitely in the market for those kinds of players and we would work closely with Rugby Australia if they wanted those players to come back and play for the Wallabies.”

Certainly RA is excited by the prospect of using Force funds to bring home such overseas-based players as Rory Arnold, Adam Coleman, Sean McMahon and Liam Gill, but they also need to be wary that because the Forrest-owned club does not have any financial constraints on it, they could be creating a superclub in Perth.
Careful who you get into bed with WA, you have been warned.
Cmon down the Western Sunwolves!
RandomNavigat0r
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Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:32 am

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by RandomNavigat0r »

grievous wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:15 am
RandomNavigat0r wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:55 am Western Force doing what it believes is right for themselves after being burned by RA in the past.
Western Force admits it is sounding out NZ

WAYNE SMITH
RUGBY UNION

AN HOUR AGO SEPTEMBER 7, 2020
NO COMMENTS

The Western Force have acknowledged the possibility that they could be based in New Zealand next year as part of Super Rugby Aotearoa, even as reports filter across the Tasman that there will be some cross-over fixtures against Kiwi sides at the end of the domestic competitions.

Matt Hodgson, the former Force skipper who has become head of Andrew Forrest’s Global Rapid Rugby, told The Australian on Monday that the Perth club was anxiously awaiting some formal decisions about what the 2021 season and beyond would look like before deciding which path to take.

“There are many things to go through,” Hodgson said. “Obviously if we are in NZ we’ve probably got to be based in there because the trans-Tasman travel budget will be up by the time you start planning these things. It’s an interesting one.”


Rugby Australia appears to have only the vaguest idea that the Force is even considering relocating to NZ but clearly, if that was to happen, it would have immense ramifications for Australian rugby. For starters, it would mean there would be only four professional franchises remaining here – the NSW Waratahs, Queensland Reds, the Brumbies and the Melbourne Rebels – which would leave the Super Rugby AU competition next year light one team, possibly two.

There have been reports of the Sunwolves returning to play in Australia but there are a staggering amount of logistical problems to be overcome before that happens. It has not even been decided yet whether a Japanese side is even needed; and if it is, would it need to relocate to Australia or might it be possible for them to play some matches at home.

It might seem ingratitude by the Force to even be contemplating a trans-Tasman move after they have just been invited back into the Australian rugby fold. Yet it was not charity behind RA’s invitation but a crass need for a fifth team to give the Super Rugby AU competition credibility. After being unceremoniously culled from Super Rugby in 2017, the Force does not owe RA anything.

“Whatever we are presented with, we will take the best option for the Western Force, that’s for sure,” Hodgson said. “We can’t just look at what 2021 is going to present but what does the future hold. That’s where we need to look at it. Align ourselves to make sure that the Western Force is secure in whatever path we take.”

There seems no malice in the Force sounding out the NZ Rugby. But after spending three traumatic years on the outer, they can hardly be blamed for now using Forrest’s considerable financial might to their own advantage.

“I just think we have to weigh up everything. I think we were very pleased to be back this year and playing football. At the start of the year there might have been the option of not playing any football. We are just waiting to be presented with what it looks like from multiple different avenues. I think everyone is waiting to see what the proposal from Rugby Australia is and the like.”

One of the options is for the leading teams in the NZ and Australian competitions to play cross-over finals at the end of the 2021 season, an idea the Kiwis appear to be now embracing. Indeed, resistance to a full trans-Tasman competition in 2022, with all five Australian teams and a Pasifika side, appears to have faded away.

A NZ-based Force would thoroughly test the loyalty of the famed Sea of Blue, the ferociously-dedicated organisation of club fans. It would mean a second season in which the Force would not play a serious competition match on WA soil. And yet even if that disappointment could be overcome, the time difference between NZ and Perth presents fundamental problems. A 7pm kick-off in Auckland on a Friday night converts to 3pm on a working day in Perth. And even if the Force could arrange for all their matches to be played on a Saturday, a 3pm kick-off would still cut directly across WA club rugby fixtures.

The upside, however, would be that the Force would be exposed to a full year of NZ competition ahead of the 2022 season when, as reported in The Australian, the domestic competitions will give way to a trans-Tasman series.

The Force finished the Super Rugby AU competition unluckily without a win, eight straight losses, and there is no question that they would need to bolster their playing strength immeasurably to survive against the likes of the Crusaders and the Blues. As it happens, though, they look like being immeasurably stronger next year.

Coach Tim Sampson admitted they had attempted to recruit disgruntled Wallabies second-rower Izack Rodda for this year’s domestic competition and while they failed, they would be pursuing him for next season. “Matt and I have put a list together,” Sampson said.

Hodgson acknowledged the club would indeed be pursuing Rodda, but a whole lot of other players beside. “You only have to look at the ability of the player and the status of that position in Australia at the moment, we’d be silly not to look at someone like him,” said Hodgson, adding that the two other Queensland “defectors”, Harry Hocking and Isaac Lucas, were also likely to be approached.

“Yeah and you’d look at Will Skelton, you’d look at multiple players over there. We are definitely in the market for those kinds of players and we would work closely with Rugby Australia if they wanted those players to come back and play for the Wallabies.”

Certainly RA is excited by the prospect of using Force funds to bring home such overseas-based players as Rory Arnold, Adam Coleman, Sean McMahon and Liam Gill, but they also need to be wary that because the Forrest-owned club does not have any financial constraints on it, they could be creating a superclub in Perth.
Careful who you get into bed with WA, you have been warned.
Cmon down the Western Sunwolves!
Looks like common sense prevailed.
Western Force future assured, says Rugby Australia director Scott Johnson

Nick Taylor
The West Australian
Wed, 9 September 2020 3:40PM


Western Force have secured their place in the sport’s future, according to Rugby Australia’s director of rugby Scott Johnson.
Johnson was not surprised by how competitive the side was in trying conditions in the Australian Super Rugby competition and having players picked for the Wallabies training squad was just reward.
The Force were controversially axed by RA three years ago but Johnson said: “They are part of the rugby landscape of Australia.
“From a rugby standpoint I see them as being a part of us.
“We’d like to think they are part of the future. It’s good to have them around that’s for sure.”
Johnson echoed the sentiments of new RA chairman Hamish McLennan.
McLennan told thewest.com.au in July, after the Force had been invited back into Super Rugby: “I envisage they will be in for the long term.”
Reports that the Force could relocate to New Zealand to play in their Super Rugby competition next year have been dismissed by insiders as “drawing a very, very long bow”.
The Force were winless but always competitive in the Super competition and were left heartbroken on a couple of occasions, particularly after the last minute 34-30 loss in the final game to the Melbourne Rebels.
“They didn’t surprise me. I was very, very pleased. They added to the tournament because they were competitive,” Johnson said.
“They were always going to be competitive if they didn’t get excessive injuries
“They were competitive right to the bitter end. It could have easy not to show up in that last game but to get that result was testament to everyone involved.
“Everything about it said so much about the people involved.
“It reflects well on the coaching team, on the people overseeing the program as much as the players.
“It was an arduous time and you judge people at the heavy and hard times.
“It wasn’t easy, they never complained, they got on with it. They should be congratulated.”
Three players, No.8 Brynard Stander, hooker Feleti Kaitu’u and centre Kyle Godwin have been called into the Wallabies extended training squad. Others are knocking on the door.
“That’s reward for good effort. They certainly grabbed our attention enough to say let’s have a good look,” Johnson said.
“The beauty of the Force is they uncover people who were locked out on the east coast and give them a future as well as produce their own talent.”
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Ellafan
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Ellafan »

Reports that the Force could relocate to New Zealand to play in their Super Rugby competition next year have been dismissed by insiders as “drawing a very, very long bow”
Wayne Smith :lol:
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shanky
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by shanky »

So, what have we learned?

That Oz has 3 competitive teams and 1-2 development teams

Bit like every other ‘super’ nation really. :thumbup:
towny
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Location: Perth

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by towny »

We learned, that despite a massive player drain, if we could choose anyone in the world for the test team, there is no one that’s hands-down better than the kids we’ve got at home.

Guys like Darwin and Turinui, whom I rate, think that the player standard isn’t as good as it was 15 years ago. But those two at their best wouldn’t get close to the current Wobs team. We used to get spanners like Huxley winning player awards ffs.

Australia has never had better depth than we have now.
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shanky
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by shanky »

Yup.

We’re in pretty good shape

I look at Petaia and think ‘that kid will be an all time legend’.

That’s a rare feeling for us after we’ve been treated like a good looking sheila on a Saturday night, in NZ’s version of Gilead, for several years.
towny
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Location: Perth

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by towny »

shanky wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:22 pm Yup.

We’re in pretty good shape

I look at Petaia and think ‘that kid will be an all time legend’.

That’s a rare feeling for us after we’ve been treated like a good looking sheila on a Saturday night, in NZ’s version of Gilead, for several years.
+1

I look back at those 90s teams and am blown away by the legendary names - Burke, Horan, etc. But now we have some kids that are of that level.

Only injury will stop Petaia and Tupou making the ‘all-time’ team.
Blokes like LSL, McReight, Uelese and McDermott will be somewhere between very good and great.

Something, somewhere is being done differently and Oz rugby is heading towards good times.
towny
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Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:53 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by towny »

This story was in the Oz.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/ ... 8307a0702d
Australian rugby too often looks at itself through the eyes of the AFL or NRL or, for that matter, through the eyes of the cashed-up northern hemisphere clubs, seeing only its limitations. Yet imagine being an emerging sport in this country and looking with envy at rugby’s opportunities.

Take baseball for example.

Cam Vale is the chief executive officer of Baseball Australia. Not the biggest sport in Australia but not the smallest either. Not surprisingly he hates the term “second tier”. He has basically been in sports administration all his working life, from finance officer at St Kilda football club to CFO of the Melbourne Storm, Chief Operating Officer and interim CEO at North Melbourne Football Club, CEO of Hockey Australia and now he is boss of Baseball Australia.

Rugby is one of the few sports in which he hasn’t worked but he admits that, like just about every other sporting administrator, he has watched rugby’s journey in recent years with fascination. The phase “watching a train wreck in slow motion” comes to mind but that’s not how Vale sees it.

He looks at Andrew Forrest’s push into Asia with his Global Rapid Rugby with admiration, sensing the enormous opportunities there, but more recently he has been taken by Rugby Australia’s flirtation with the Sunwolves.

In particular, Australia is looking to bring the Sunwolves into the Super Rugby AU competition as a sixth team. Lately, as the global pandemic makes international sport more and more problematic, the conversation has turned to whether the Sunwolves should relocate to Australia in 2021.

“As I’m watching the rugby journey, really back three years, from the Force issue, to all the challenges they’ve had of late, to the broadcast deal, and I’m seeing this Sunwolves one and it’s staring me in the face,” said Vale. “You would absolutely base that team in Australia”.

But first, a little background in Australian baseball. For the past two years, the Geelong-Korea team has played in the Australian Baseball League. It is an all-Korean side made up of a mix of players from the Korean professional league (KBO), with five of the 10 clubs sending out players to Australia.

All Geelong-Korea games are broadcast on Korean free-to-air television which, as anyone who has been to Korea would know, swallows baseball whole, playing it virtually 24/7.

Geelong’s Korean owners, Happy Rising, pay for all the television production costs of their games and then sell them to their own domestic consumers, while giving Baseball Australia content for its partnership with Kayo. And there are other benefits.

Geelong-Korea has been the driver for three KBO teams to visit Australia for their three-to-four week spring training camps. Australia, as well, has begun infiltrating its own juniors into the GK ranks, with the eventual aim that they will fill about 10 spots in the 25-man playing roster.

So successful has this model been that Vale is now looking seriously at replicating the GK experience with the two other major Asian markets, Japan and Taiwan, bringing teams from those two countries into the Australian baseball fold.

True, when Vale credits GK with saving Baseball Australia, he is talking no more than $350,000 in direct benefits and maybe another $150,000 in indirect spin-offs. But everything is relative and now Baseball Australia has direct access to Korea — where interest is year-round with the population of over 50 million even if the country is blanketed in snow. And soon, if all goes well, its reach will extend to Japan (population 126 million) and Taiwan (27 million).

Back now to Vale’s thoughts on the Sunwolves.

“Putting the Japanese team into the Australian part of Super Rugby is a no-brainer,” he said. “Base the Sunwolves in a major regional hub like Wollongong or in a city like Adelaide that probably won’t have a Super Rugby team of its own. And I imagine direct international TV rights revenue from Japan might be helpful to RA at the moment.”

Like everything to do with Asia, patience is required. It may be hard for Australian rugby to play the long game at present, when it is barely keeping the wolf from the door, but Vale believes by planning astutely now, Australia can be well placed for the years to come.
Cairns Sunwolves??
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Zakar
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Zakar »

towny wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:49 pm This story was in the Oz.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/ ... 8307a0702d
Australian rugby too often looks at itself through the eyes of the AFL or NRL or, for that matter, through the eyes of the cashed-up northern hemisphere clubs, seeing only its limitations. Yet imagine being an emerging sport in this country and looking with envy at rugby’s opportunities.

Take baseball for example.

Cam Vale is the chief executive officer of Baseball Australia. Not the biggest sport in Australia but not the smallest either. Not surprisingly he hates the term “second tier”. He has basically been in sports administration all his working life, from finance officer at St Kilda football club to CFO of the Melbourne Storm, Chief Operating Officer and interim CEO at North Melbourne Football Club, CEO of Hockey Australia and now he is boss of Baseball Australia.

Rugby is one of the few sports in which he hasn’t worked but he admits that, like just about every other sporting administrator, he has watched rugby’s journey in recent years with fascination. The phase “watching a train wreck in slow motion” comes to mind but that’s not how Vale sees it.

He looks at Andrew Forrest’s push into Asia with his Global Rapid Rugby with admiration, sensing the enormous opportunities there, but more recently he has been taken by Rugby Australia’s flirtation with the Sunwolves.

In particular, Australia is looking to bring the Sunwolves into the Super Rugby AU competition as a sixth team. Lately, as the global pandemic makes international sport more and more problematic, the conversation has turned to whether the Sunwolves should relocate to Australia in 2021.

“As I’m watching the rugby journey, really back three years, from the Force issue, to all the challenges they’ve had of late, to the broadcast deal, and I’m seeing this Sunwolves one and it’s staring me in the face,” said Vale. “You would absolutely base that team in Australia”.

But first, a little background in Australian baseball. For the past two years, the Geelong-Korea team has played in the Australian Baseball League. It is an all-Korean side made up of a mix of players from the Korean professional league (KBO), with five of the 10 clubs sending out players to Australia.

All Geelong-Korea games are broadcast on Korean free-to-air television which, as anyone who has been to Korea would know, swallows baseball whole, playing it virtually 24/7.

Geelong’s Korean owners, Happy Rising, pay for all the television production costs of their games and then sell them to their own domestic consumers, while giving Baseball Australia content for its partnership with Kayo. And there are other benefits.

Geelong-Korea has been the driver for three KBO teams to visit Australia for their three-to-four week spring training camps. Australia, as well, has begun infiltrating its own juniors into the GK ranks, with the eventual aim that they will fill about 10 spots in the 25-man playing roster.

So successful has this model been that Vale is now looking seriously at replicating the GK experience with the two other major Asian markets, Japan and Taiwan, bringing teams from those two countries into the Australian baseball fold.

True, when Vale credits GK with saving Baseball Australia, he is talking no more than $350,000 in direct benefits and maybe another $150,000 in indirect spin-offs. But everything is relative and now Baseball Australia has direct access to Korea — where interest is year-round with the population of over 50 million even if the country is blanketed in snow. And soon, if all goes well, its reach will extend to Japan (population 126 million) and Taiwan (27 million).

Back now to Vale’s thoughts on the Sunwolves.

“Putting the Japanese team into the Australian part of Super Rugby is a no-brainer,” he said. “Base the Sunwolves in a major regional hub like Wollongong or in a city like Adelaide that probably won’t have a Super Rugby team of its own. And I imagine direct international TV rights revenue from Japan might be helpful to RA at the moment.”

Like everything to do with Asia, patience is required. It may be hard for Australian rugby to play the long game at present, when it is barely keeping the wolf from the door, but Vale believes by planning astutely now, Australia can be well placed for the years to come.
Cairns Sunwolves??
Cairns Sunwolves is a great idea.
grievous
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by grievous »

Interesting fact about baseball I didn't know we supported a Korean team. What I knew about our national beanball comp was we as expected supported many US players, its a small comp but we actually put out decent teams in the past and have won Olympic medals.
Hubris aside, WR have an active media dept, a piece this week about growing numbers in Asia which RA should have an eye on the horizon to.
Over two million new rugby participants in Asia shows impact beyond Rugby World Cup 2019
World Rugby’s Year in Review 2019 publishes rugby’s latest global participation data, with 43.1 per cent of Asia’s new participants female.

09/09/2020 19:30

Rugby World Cup 2019 may be remembered by most for what happened on the field, but it’s the events off it that have really made it the most impactful in the tournament’s history – and that’s not hyperbole. The tournament is already the biggest ever Rugby World Cup in terms of sporting, social and financial impact – generating a record £4.3 billion in economic output, as outlined in a recent report by EY.

Japan 2019, the first RWC in Asia, has proved to be a real game-changer for the sport across the world’s most populous continent. In new data revealed in World Rugby’s Year in Review 2019, the tournament has inspired 2.25 million new rugby participants in Asia, including 1.18 million in Japan alone. World Rugby Chairman, Sir Bill Beaumont, described this as “perhaps the most important ‘try’ of the tournament”.

As well as the Brave Blossoms’ outstanding performances at RWC 2019, both World Rugby’s Get Into Rugby and Impact Beyond programmes are responsible for inspiring this new generation of rugby fanatics in Japan and beyond to help create a lasting legacy for the tournament.

50 PER CENT INCREASE IN NATIONAL U18 GIRLS’ SIDES IN ASIA

World Rugby’s Get Into Rugby programme was created with one goal in mind: to encourage players of all ages from across the globe to try, play and stay in rugby. Active in 2,010 locations, the programme partners with regional associations and unions worldwide to deliver rugby in a safe, enjoyable and progressive way.

Of Get Into Rugby’s 2.1 million global participants throughout 2019, 45 per cent were based in Asia. Five of the top 10 countries in terms of participation numbers are in Asia, in India, Japan, UAE, Pakistan and China. These results are not only the culmination of RWC 2019, but also the incredible groundwork put in by Get Into Rugby – and Impact Beyond – in the years building up to the tournament.

Encouraging new rugby participants to stay in the sport is one of Get Into Rugby’s main focuses. This is why the fact that the programme’s graduates are representing their countries in international age-grade rugby at an ever-increasing rate is hugely encouraging for Get Into Rugby. And the growth in one age group in particular – U18 girls – is showing the greatest promise.

During the most recent RWC cycle – the four years between England 2015 and Japan 2019 – the number of national U18 girls’ sides in Asia increased by 50 per cent. Ninety per cent of those players honed their skills through the Get Into Rugby programme.

And the impact stretches beyond Asia. Two current members of the Fijiana sevens team came through Get Into Rugby. The same can be said for two Vanuatu players representing their country at the Oceania Rugby Women’s Sevens Championship 2019 – the Pacific island nation’s first-ever appearance at the tournament. A third of the 18 players in the Kenya Lionesses squad in the last three years came through Get Into Rugby.

While many Get Into Rugby graduates entered the international arena in 2019, the year also saw various nations continue to make progress on their own journey through the programme. We saw the first inter-school rugby festival in St Lucia; the Solomon Islands hosted their first-ever Get Into Rugby tag festival, which over 200 children attended; and Get Into Rugby was introduced to the school curriculum in Afghanistan.

A LASTING LEGACY

Together with Get Into Rugby, the Impact Beyond programme is a central pillar in World Rugby’s mission to grow the game globally, running alongside major World Rugby events, such as and most notably Rugby World Cup, and the Olympic Games to inspire and engage future generations.

In the build up to and during RWC 2019, Impact Beyond’s chief aim was to convert the rugby potential within Japan and Asia. World Rugby’s Impact Beyond report reveals that, in Japan alone, more than 769,000 schoolchildren have been introduced to tag rugby in over 6,000 elementary schools thanks to the work of the programme.

The programme’s influence has not only been felt in Japan – in total 22 Asian rugby unions were involved in Impact Beyond in the build up to RWC 2019. As many as 237,000 players in Pakistan, 180,000 in China, 106,000 in India, as well as many, many others in Bangladesh, the Philippines, Malaysia, Nepal, Sri Lanka and Indonesia, are experiencing rugby for the first time. In further progress still, 43.1 per cent of Asia’s new rugby participants are girls and women.

Impact Beyond initiatives such as the 19-country stop RWC 2019 Trophy Tour, an exchange project bringing young players from across Asia to experience the thrill of RWC 2019 firsthand, and RWC 2019 partners, such as Land Rover, delivering youth participation days alongside legends like Jonny Wilkinson and Bryan Habana, have all played a role in driving such encouraging growth.

Rugby is a sport which prides itself on character-building values, and, as part of the Impact Beyond 2019 programme, more than £2 million was pledged in a fantastic show of solidarity from the global rugby family to support ChildFund Pass It Back, the principal RWC 2019 charity partner. Funds raised are transforming the lives of more than 25,000 vulnerable children in disadvantaged communities across Asia through an integrated life skills and rugby curriculum.

Both Impact Beyond and Get Into Rugby have and will continue to play a crucial role in growing rugby globally and broadening the game’s diversity across gender, ethnicity, age, and social backgrounds. With the Olympic Games in Tokyo on the horizon, the opportunity to further increase awareness and excitement for rugby in Japan and around the world has never been greater.
Im sure Kiwiass will tell us there was still no benefit of a Japan WC.
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wamberal
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by wamberal »

A puff piece par excellence. Reminds me of a piece written a decade or two ago about the potential for the game in the PRC.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by akann »

towny wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:10 pm We learned, that despite a massive player drain, if we could choose anyone in the world for the test team, there is no one that’s hands-down better than the kids we’ve got at home.

Guys like Darwin and Turinui, whom I rate, think that the player standard isn’t as good as it was 15 years ago. But those two at their best wouldn’t get close to the current Wobs team. We used to get spanners like Huxley winning player awards ffs.

Australia has never had better depth than we have now.
I agree about overall depth but not if you are talking quality. The Wobs from the late 90s early 00s had a handful of the world's best players or at least players who were in the top 2 or 3 in the world. I don't think there's one current Aussie player who can be considered to be the world's best. Thor and Petaia could be in time but not atm.
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kiwigreg369
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by kiwigreg369 »

I’m a big fan Marika Koroibete - he’s the closest for me.
grievous
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by grievous »

wamberal wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:16 am A puff piece par excellence. Reminds me of a piece written a decade or two ago about the potential for the game in the PRC.
I said hubris but......Sooo you agree with Kiwiass, no benefit of the the WC being ain Asia? Try not to recall your days as an expat if you can.
towny
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by towny »

akann wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:46 am
towny wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:10 pm We learned, that despite a massive player drain, if we could choose anyone in the world for the test team, there is no one that’s hands-down better than the kids we’ve got at home.

Guys like Darwin and Turinui, whom I rate, think that the player standard isn’t as good as it was 15 years ago. But those two at their best wouldn’t get close to the current Wobs team. We used to get spanners like Huxley winning player awards ffs.

Australia has never had better depth than we have now.
I agree about overall depth but not if you are talking quality. The Wobs from the late 90s early 00s had a handful of the world's best players or at least players who were in the top 2 or 3 in the world. I don't think there's one current Aussie player who can be considered to be the world's best. Thor and Petaia could be in time but not atm.
Agree 100%. But it’s been a while since we’ve had this kind of spark coming through. We aren’t there yet - but we are on the way to a good place if we keep our head down.
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Salient
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by Salient »

grievous wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:50 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:51 pm
grievous wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:21 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:38 am Yes - it could be. Depends what trying to achieve, but yes.
The relationship isn’t that great - clear view (remember Steve Hansen bleating about it) that Aus have not supported NZ despite the NZ RFU propping up Aus over parts of the last century.

The advice to look after themselves comes directly from JO’N.

It’s not in NZs interest to develop depth in Aussie player base, or play Aussie teams when they are just not good enough. Clearly the $$ are of interest...
Looks like you've swallowed all that hook line and sinker, Im not really surprised.
Anyway, NZR didn't get their way so deal with it.
Grevie - look at the RA website.
Look at the history tab.
RA call it out themselves.
They’re the ones calling FACT.
Learn your own history.
I looked what am I looking for? Between the claims that NZ has propped us as a rugby nation to we stole your WC to anything that Hansen says we did ...I cant keep up.
That's because you are a dumb arse :thumbup:
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kiwigreg369
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Seems like the best place to put this. Doesn't seem critical at the moment, but will be soon. NSW approach seems more prudent.
Waratahs bank on big broadcast deal to stem flow of players
Tom Decent
September 12, 2020 — 8.00pm

Waratahs boss Paul Doorn says the organisation will lose more potential recruits like Kyle Godwin and be unable to re-sign players such as Ned Hanigan until it receives clarity from Rugby Australia about the value of a new broadcast deal.

It comes as hope grows that a successful Australia-based Rugby Championship can bolster the code’s popularity and improve its future financial position.

In the aftermath of a “disappointing” season, during which the Waratahs finished second last in Super Rugby AU, Doorn understands COVID-19 has thrown a major spanner in the works. But he said there was frustration about the uncertainty heading into next year.

As revealed by the Herald last month, the Waratahs have taken a more cautious approach than their Super Rugby counterparts, considering slashing $1 million off their player salary budget.

While other teams continue to sign players in anticipation of a favourable broadcast deal, Doorn said the risk mitigation advice NSW had been given was that it would be "crazy" to continue signing players as normal.

RA has begun formal negotiations regarding a new broadcast deal from next year. While it is unclear how many broadcasters registered interest, Foxtel and Network 10, who show rugby at present, are understood to both be at the table.

There was understandable excitement on Friday on their behalf when Australia managed to secure hosting rights for a six-week Rugby Championship tournament.

The November and early December time slot is a winner by way of there being no other major football code on TV on weekends, and interim RA chief executive Rob Clarke believes rugby’s golden opportunity can be a win for broadcasters, too.

“I know the broadcasters are very excited by it, and so they should be,” Clarke said. “I know Fox and Ten will love the fact they’re getting such quality rugby at that time of the year and it will drive, I hope, some subscriptions and viewership for them.”

Clarke wouldn't talk about ongoing broadcast discussions, but there are rumblings inside Super Rugby franchises still in the dark about what they can and can't do.

There is also the stark reality that if the Rugby Championship had to be cancelled, due to a COVID-19 outbreak or another issue, the rest of this year's broadcast money would not flow in, a situation that would have a trickle-down effect for everyone in the game.

It’s why RA and the NSW government are going to such extreme lengths to make sure arriving teams, such as those from Argentina who have had players test positive to COVID-19, will be isolated in a hub with strict protocols enforced to ensure the tournament goes ahead.

“The message to Rugby Australia is we’re just desperate for them to get the best possible outcome and to know as soon as we possibly can,” Doorn said. “The only assurances we’ve got from Rugby Australia include our funding for this quarter and the final quarter of the year. That’s as far as it goes. I don’t want to comment at all about the discussions with Rugby Australia, clearly because that’s a commercially sensitive time for those guys.

“If and when the financials of next year and televisions deals are known, and our funding with Rugby Australia is known, then we’ve got an ability to be able to grow into that. You’ve just got to be a bit careful that you don’t overcommit or fully commit at this point in time.”

The Waratahs have had to be very selective with who they sign and it has cost them a couple of big names. While they’ve announced Will Harrison and Jack Maddocks will be on the books next year, the club could not come to an agreement with Force centre Godwin, who was all but a done deal to come to NSW.

There’s also 20-Test Hanigan, who Doorn said was a player they wanted to keep but, given the circumstances, wasn't able to hold onto.

“We’ve not been able to secure some of the players back when the freeze was first lifted,” Doorn said. “The Ned Hanigans and those guys we would have loved to have kept but just weren’t in a position at that point in time. It has been challenging to say the least. Our goal here is to put together the best possible roster that we can but still live within our means for 2021.

“Everyone fully appreciates where we’re at. Even I would say there are levels of frustration, not with the business, just the environment we’re living in.”
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by RandomNavigat0r »

This is apparently the Pasifika team the NZRU want to enter into the Super Rugby Aotearoa competition. This is the same side that played in Global Rapid Rugby, they were rag dolled by the Force endlessly in GRR yet we had the NZRU saying that the AUS teams had to be a certain standard and should drop 2 or 3 teams, what utter horse shit. It turns out that a side that would basically come last in the Australian NRC is being entered into Super Rugby Aotearoa in 2022. NZL could be stuck with 5 teams again next year

Super Rugby: Asia Pacific Dragons rule themselves out of 2021 contention

Paul Cully
15:38, Sep 25 2020
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Twitter

Strike the Asia Pacific Dragons from the list of possible Pasifika entrants into an expanded Super Rugby Aotearoa competition in 2021.

While New Zealand Rugby is closing in on a decision about the 2021 competition, the Dragons insist they only want to be considered from 2022 onwards, and will instead focus on setting up a World Tens series to tap into the US market and take advantage of the Sevens format's current woes.
.
“We believe in order for any team to be successful in 2021 they must be already in dialogue with marketable players off-shore who can support the young talent coming through the ranks in competitions such as the Mitre 10 Cup and also in the Pacific Islands,” Sam Lawrence, the general manager of Dragons owners Carinat Sports Marketing, told Stuff on Friday.

“Super Rugby Aotearoa was brutal.



“It's the best competition in the world in the way of quality and in order to compete you're going to need a talented squad with experienced players.

“Our involvement in the World Tens Series in 2020 and also 2021 would provide the ideal opportunity and build up to participate in Super Rugby 2022.”


The addition of potential teams into Super Rugby Aotearoa now appears to be a two-step process, with NZ Rugby first set to finalise its plans for next year before looking again at potential franchises for 2022.

NZ Rugby is expected to make a decision on 2021 by the end of the month, but the tight timeline for bidders to get a team together for the start of next year has clearly made some bidders nervous.


“NZ Rugby have advised they will look at the 2022 competition once the 2021 structure is in place,” Lawrence said. “We will likely be re-engaged during November.

“They have been fairly transparent on the process, and we continue to remain in dialogue with NZ Rugby and also Rugby Australia.”.

.
Carinat will instead focus on its hybrid Tens series with an event in Bermuda from late October to early November, when former Wallaby and Tonga coach Toutai Kefu will coach the Dragons.

Lawrence sees the Bermuda event as precursor to an expanded series in 2021 and beyond that the Dragons will use to supplement the incomes of Super Rugby players.

“The big thing for us is that it strengthens our bid in terms of if we are going to go after players that are overseas,” Lawrence said.

“They can come and play Super Rugby, and then they don't have to go back overseas for the second half of the season.

”They would stay with the APD [Dragons] brand, and not have to take their family and set up somewhere else.


Kiwi Mitchell Scott is tackled during the Global Rapid Rugby match between the Asia Pacific Dragons and Western Force last year.

”In terms of attracting families back to New Zealand, where the quality of life is amazing, and they can still be full-time, professional rugby players for 12 months of the year.”

The Tens series is also seen as a way to make a splash in the US market, and comes at a time when unions such as England are pulling the plug on Sevens funding in the wake of the Covid-19 cash crunch.

“We identified that the Sevens game is pretty much dead in the water,” Lawrence said.

”You can see that the national bodies are not supporting it any more.

“Sevens is dead in the water, the 15s game is very confusing for emerging markets to understand, whereas Tens is the great hybrid.

“It's going to provide entertainment and that’s where we think we can attract the US market.”

.
The US market remains something of the holy grail for rugby, simply because of its sheer scale.

“The big thing we want to tap into...the US sports market is worth $60 billion,” Lawrence said.

”World Rugby is valued at about $1 billion.

“If we can tap into that $60 billion, even at the lowest levels possible, it's a game changer.

“It’s tapping into that potential US sports market. No one has been able to unlock it.

“The barrier to entry into the MLR are very high due to the costs involved.

“Our model is very much a win-win for team owners, tournament owners and obviously the World Tens Series itself.”
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by towny »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:08 am Seems like the best place to put this. Doesn't seem critical at the moment, but will be soon. NSW approach seems more prudent.
Waratahs bank on big broadcast deal to stem flow of players
Tom Decent
September 12, 2020 — 8.00pm

Waratahs boss Paul Doorn says the organisation will lose more potential recruits like Kyle Godwin and be unable to re-sign players such as Ned Hanigan until it receives clarity from Rugby Australia about the value of a new broadcast deal.

It comes as hope grows that a successful Australia-based Rugby Championship can bolster the code’s popularity and improve its future financial position.

In the aftermath of a “disappointing” season, during which the Waratahs finished second last in Super Rugby AU, Doorn understands COVID-19 has thrown a major spanner in the works. But he said there was frustration about the uncertainty heading into next year.

As revealed by the Herald last month, the Waratahs have taken a more cautious approach than their Super Rugby counterparts, considering slashing $1 million off their player salary budget.

While other teams continue to sign players in anticipation of a favourable broadcast deal, Doorn said the risk mitigation advice NSW had been given was that it would be "crazy" to continue signing players as normal.

RA has begun formal negotiations regarding a new broadcast deal from next year. While it is unclear how many broadcasters registered interest, Foxtel and Network 10, who show rugby at present, are understood to both be at the table.

There was understandable excitement on Friday on their behalf when Australia managed to secure hosting rights for a six-week Rugby Championship tournament.

The November and early December time slot is a winner by way of there being no other major football code on TV on weekends, and interim RA chief executive Rob Clarke believes rugby’s golden opportunity can be a win for broadcasters, too.

“I know the broadcasters are very excited by it, and so they should be,” Clarke said. “I know Fox and Ten will love the fact they’re getting such quality rugby at that time of the year and it will drive, I hope, some subscriptions and viewership for them.”

Clarke wouldn't talk about ongoing broadcast discussions, but there are rumblings inside Super Rugby franchises still in the dark about what they can and can't do.

There is also the stark reality that if the Rugby Championship had to be cancelled, due to a COVID-19 outbreak or another issue, the rest of this year's broadcast money would not flow in, a situation that would have a trickle-down effect for everyone in the game.

It’s why RA and the NSW government are going to such extreme lengths to make sure arriving teams, such as those from Argentina who have had players test positive to COVID-19, will be isolated in a hub with strict protocols enforced to ensure the tournament goes ahead.

“The message to Rugby Australia is we’re just desperate for them to get the best possible outcome and to know as soon as we possibly can,” Doorn said. “The only assurances we’ve got from Rugby Australia include our funding for this quarter and the final quarter of the year. That’s as far as it goes. I don’t want to comment at all about the discussions with Rugby Australia, clearly because that’s a commercially sensitive time for those guys.

“If and when the financials of next year and televisions deals are known, and our funding with Rugby Australia is known, then we’ve got an ability to be able to grow into that. You’ve just got to be a bit careful that you don’t overcommit or fully commit at this point in time.”

The Waratahs have had to be very selective with who they sign and it has cost them a couple of big names. While they’ve announced Will Harrison and Jack Maddocks will be on the books next year, the club could not come to an agreement with Force centre Godwin, who was all but a done deal to come to NSW.

There’s also 20-Test Hanigan, who Doorn said was a player they wanted to keep but, given the circumstances, wasn't able to hold onto.

“We’ve not been able to secure some of the players back when the freeze was first lifted,” Doorn said. “The Ned Hanigans and those guys we would have loved to have kept but just weren’t in a position at that point in time. It has been challenging to say the least. Our goal here is to put together the best possible roster that we can but still live within our means for 2021.

“Everyone fully appreciates where we’re at. Even I would say there are levels of frustration, not with the business, just the environment we’re living in.”
Where exactly are they going to lose these players soon? France? UK is asking for a govt bailout. I wouldn’t be surprised if we start seeing a return of stars, and maybe even a few NH blokes looking for a game.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by towny »

RandomNavigat0r wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:24 pm This is apparently the Pasifika team the NZRU want to enter into the Super Rugby Aotearoa competition. This is the same side that played in Global Rapid Rugby, they were rag dolled by the Force endlessly in GRR yet we had the NZRU saying that the AUS teams had to be a certain standard and should drop 2 or 3 teams, what utter horse shit. It turns out that a side that would basically come last in the Australian NRC is being entered into Super Rugby Aotearoa in 2022. NZL could be stuck with 5 teams again next year

Super Rugby: Asia Pacific Dragons rule themselves out of 2021 contention

Paul Cully
15:38, Sep 25 2020
Facebook
Twitter

Strike the Asia Pacific Dragons from the list of possible Pasifika entrants into an expanded Super Rugby Aotearoa competition in 2021.

While New Zealand Rugby is closing in on a decision about the 2021 competition, the Dragons insist they only want to be considered from 2022 onwards, and will instead focus on setting up a World Tens series to tap into the US market and take advantage of the Sevens format's current woes.
.
“We believe in order for any team to be successful in 2021 they must be already in dialogue with marketable players off-shore who can support the young talent coming through the ranks in competitions such as the Mitre 10 Cup and also in the Pacific Islands,” Sam Lawrence, the general manager of Dragons owners Carinat Sports Marketing, told Stuff on Friday.

“Super Rugby Aotearoa was brutal.



“It's the best competition in the world in the way of quality and in order to compete you're going to need a talented squad with experienced players.

“Our involvement in the World Tens Series in 2020 and also 2021 would provide the ideal opportunity and build up to participate in Super Rugby 2022.”


The addition of potential teams into Super Rugby Aotearoa now appears to be a two-step process, with NZ Rugby first set to finalise its plans for next year before looking again at potential franchises for 2022.

NZ Rugby is expected to make a decision on 2021 by the end of the month, but the tight timeline for bidders to get a team together for the start of next year has clearly made some bidders nervous.


“NZ Rugby have advised they will look at the 2022 competition once the 2021 structure is in place,” Lawrence said. “We will likely be re-engaged during November.

“They have been fairly transparent on the process, and we continue to remain in dialogue with NZ Rugby and also Rugby Australia.”.

.
Carinat will instead focus on its hybrid Tens series with an event in Bermuda from late October to early November, when former Wallaby and Tonga coach Toutai Kefu will coach the Dragons.

Lawrence sees the Bermuda event as precursor to an expanded series in 2021 and beyond that the Dragons will use to supplement the incomes of Super Rugby players.

“The big thing for us is that it strengthens our bid in terms of if we are going to go after players that are overseas,” Lawrence said.

“They can come and play Super Rugby, and then they don't have to go back overseas for the second half of the season.

”They would stay with the APD [Dragons] brand, and not have to take their family and set up somewhere else.


Kiwi Mitchell Scott is tackled during the Global Rapid Rugby match between the Asia Pacific Dragons and Western Force last year.

”In terms of attracting families back to New Zealand, where the quality of life is amazing, and they can still be full-time, professional rugby players for 12 months of the year.”

The Tens series is also seen as a way to make a splash in the US market, and comes at a time when unions such as England are pulling the plug on Sevens funding in the wake of the Covid-19 cash crunch.

“We identified that the Sevens game is pretty much dead in the water,” Lawrence said.

”You can see that the national bodies are not supporting it any more.

“Sevens is dead in the water, the 15s game is very confusing for emerging markets to understand, whereas Tens is the great hybrid.

“It's going to provide entertainment and that’s where we think we can attract the US market.”

.
The US market remains something of the holy grail for rugby, simply because of its sheer scale.

“The big thing we want to tap into...the US sports market is worth $60 billion,” Lawrence said.

”World Rugby is valued at about $1 billion.

“If we can tap into that $60 billion, even at the lowest levels possible, it's a game changer.

“It’s tapping into that potential US sports market. No one has been able to unlock it.

“The barrier to entry into the MLR are very high due to the costs involved.

“Our model is very much a win-win for team owners, tournament owners and obviously the World Tens Series itself.”
A 6th team makes sense - increases revenue potential by 50%. Sounds like NZR have finally realised that a strong national team is not the only reason you have rugby comps.

This team might get a few touch-ups early but they’ll quickly scoop up talent and be competitive. NZ can probably manage as many rugby teams as Sydney has league clubs - but 6 seems like a pretty good number to me. I think this will end up working well.

It would be great if Australia can get a 6th team - bringing in Fiji Drua seems like a good way to do it.
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kiwigreg369
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Bottom of article on TRC / Sanzaar protocols it’s highlight that Clark(e) thought the Foxtel/Ten deal would be in a couple of weeks. Given RA poor financial position it will be interesting to see the tv deal and how that leaves RA for paying large contracts (given how much they have borrow - 14.2m).
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by towny »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:09 pm Bottom of article on TRC / Sanzaar protocols it’s highlight that Clark(e) thought the Foxtel/Ten deal would be in a couple of weeks. Given RA poor financial position it will be interesting to see the tv deal and how that leaves RA for paying large contracts (given how much they have borrow - 14.2m).
Sure. The Chairman is one of the best in the world at PE for sports, yet you think it’s still about the 1990’s business model. When you hear PE you must not even understand what the conversation is about. Broadcast deal, shmoadcast deal. I’ve been schooling you clowns for months on how it works but you still bring out the same old tired nonsense. Go lie down - this topic is obviously beyond you.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by kiwigreg369 »

I appreciate it’s an Australian thing towny but you don’t half talk a lot of shit and blow your own trumpet / and big up RA without any evidence. As it stands the only facts we know is that RA lost money last year, borrowed heavily, lost its major sponsor, and its revenue streams from tv were 57m per year - and that’s about to be slashed.

All of those facts put RA in a weak position - even if they do manage a PE deal.

PS - my last job was working for the largest PE firm in the world, so I have a limited understanding.
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by towny »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:38 pm I appreciate it’s an Australian thing towny but you don’t half talk a lot of shit and blow your own trumpet / and big up RA without any evidence. As it stands the only facts we know is that RA lost money last year, borrowed heavily, lost its major sponsor, and its revenue streams from tv were 57m per year - and that’s about to be slashed.

All of those facts put RA in a weak position - even if they do manage a PE deal.

PS - my last job was working for the largest PE firm in the world, so I have a limited understanding.
Did you get sacked from a PE firm for not knowing what the fark was going on? Did your company do leveraged buy-outs of old world assets or did you work in digital industries? Nothing you’ve ever said has made me think you’ve understood the argument, so forgive me if I dismiss your claims of even limited understanding. You’re clueless.

btw, Australia lost the same money in 2019 as it did in 2015 - another World Cup year. For the same reasons. The reason the Oz game is in trouble is because people that think like you are in charge. Idiots think that broadcast revenue was what was important - turns out that locking your game behind a paywall is like a cancer. Maybe that’s why, for the first time ever, NZ’s talent pipeline looks so shaky.....

Edit - of course Rugbby Australia is in a weakened state. But repeating this in different ways is your only contribution to the bored. Want to talk rugby or do you just want to throw shit and rubbish the other country? The latter is all a lot of kiwis seem to do these days. Boastful, pompous and bitter. Anyway, let me know, Because I’m good to go either way.
tubbyj
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by tubbyj »

This whole thread reminds me of the Black Knight skit from Monty Pythons the Holy Grail.

For the good of world rugby you don't want to see them go under but when Australian rugby has had all 4 limbs cut off and is bleeding on the ground but their fans are still arrogantly talking themselves up as the greatest thing in the sport and on the verge of a golden era with a rosy financial outlook, all the while continually abusing NZ rugby you can't help but wonder if they don't deserve the blade.
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wamberal
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by wamberal »

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
grievous
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by grievous »

tubbyj wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:36 am This whole thread reminds me of the Black Knight skit from Monty Pythons the Holy Grail.

For the good of world rugby you don't want to see them go under but when Australian rugby has had all 4 limbs cut off and is bleeding on the ground but their fans are still arrogantly talking themselves up as the greatest thing in the sport and on the verge of a golden era with a rosy financial outlook, all the while continually abusing NZ rugby you can't help but wonder if they don't deserve the blade.
You’re dribbling
All we did was say we will make our decisions Foyt our own good. Kiwi bullying tactics didn’t work and you broes have egg on your faces. Rub it in you will have to wear it a while
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kiwigreg369
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Latest - side show to the Foxtel deal - ~30% less than previous. Rule of thumb would put Foxtel at $14 (down from $57m based on 70% of past offer) plus value of new product available.
Network Ten bids for rugby union, Amazon also enters picture
Zoe Samios
September 28, 2020 — 12.00am

Network Ten has bid for the rights to broadcast Wallabies Tests from next year but wants a cheaper deal from Rugby Australia that could put further financial pressure on the embattled code.

The television network currently pays RA about $3.5 million a year to broadcast the Tests as part of a $285 million deal signed in 2015 alongside pay TV companies Foxtel and BSkyB.

Industry sources who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the negotiation process is confidential said that Ten had lodged the bid late last week, offering to broadcast the Wallabies matches on its network again but for a lower price. International Tests played in Australia and New Zealand and all matches of the rugby World Cup that involve the Australian team must be broadcast on free-to-air television under anti-siphoning laws. The length of Ten's new deal is open to discussion as is the potential to pick up new game formats such as a State of Union, a similar format to the NRL's State of Origin. Ten and RA declined to comment.

Securing a new broadcast deal is one of the key priorities for RA because it will give the code financial certainty and the existing broadcast deal expires at the end of the year. A large amount of RA's revenue comes from the money that it receives from broadcasters, but the code is under further financial pressure because long-standing sponsor Qantas ended its relationship with RA after 30 years last week.

One of the challenges for sports codes is the coronavirus pandemic has allowed broadcasters to renegotiate the amount they pay to air sport. For years the cost of broadcasting sport has increased but the suspension of matches and lack of stadium audiences allowed Foxtel, Nine and Seven to secured deals with codes such as the NRL and AFL. Seven is separately currently trying to terminate its contract with Cricket Australia while Foxtel is trying to secure a reduction.

RA's package gives broadcasters the option to select different competitions and types of rugby content and air them on television screens. For example, a broadcaster can bid for combination of existing products like Bledisloe Cup matches and Shute Shield and new products such as a 'State of Union' three-game series. Sources have previously indicated Ten, which is owned by US entertainment giant ViacomCBS, wanted a $1 million annual reduction on what it pays, meaning it would give RA $2.5 million a year. The majority of the sport's broadcasting revenue comes from Foxtel.

Ten is the only free-to-air broadcaster to put in a bid for the rights so far. Seven West Media told Rugby Australia it was not interested while Nine Entertainment Co (owner of this masthead) has informally discussed options. However, no expression of interest or bids have occurred despite the governing body indicating to other bidders that a formal offer was made. Nine is closely watching the negotiation process.

Foxtel has not formally put in its bid but remains in discussions about airing Super Rugby and Test matches. Sources said that Foxtel's main priority is the cricket, not rugby union. Foxtel declined to comment. Fox Sports has broadcast Super Rugby since its began in 1996, but Foxtel boss Patrick Delany said earlier this month the subscription television operator would focus on acquiring TV rights to 'tier-one' sports moving forward.

Amazon, which last week secured the rights to a one-off Eight Nations tournament in Europe, previously declined to comment on whether it was involved in the local tender process. However industry sources since told The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age that they were interested, but is it unclear whether they intend to put in a formal bid. Optus was previously considered the front-runner for the rights to the rugby union but did not express a formal interest in the revised broadcast rights package when it was released last month.

The amount that rugby union receives could be influenced by how the cricket talks play out. If Seven successfully terminates its deal with CA, former broadcaster Nine and Ten could try to replace it and air the Test matches and Big Bash League. There are talks between these two broadcasters about a potential acquisition of the rights. If they pay for the cricket, it does not leave a large amount of money to bid for rugby union.
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kiap
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by kiap »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:04 am~30% less than previous. Rule of thumb would put Foxtel at $14 (down from $57m based on 70% of past offer) plus value of new product available.
How does this work, KG?

Are you a PE guru?
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kiwigreg369
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Well im no recruitment agent.

The last reported Foxtel offer - before RA going to the market - from Foxtel was 20m. That was pre-covid.

So based on 70% of $20m => $14m.

So no clever towny PE dreams here - just straight revenue.
towny
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by towny »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:04 am Latest - side show to the Foxtel deal - ~30% less than previous. Rule of thumb would put Foxtel at $14 (down from $57m based on 70% of past offer) plus value of new product available.
Network Ten bids for rugby union, Amazon also enters picture
Zoe Samios
September 28, 2020 — 12.00am

Network Ten has bid for the rights to broadcast Wallabies Tests from next year but wants a cheaper deal from Rugby Australia that could put further financial pressure on the embattled code.

The television network currently pays RA about $3.5 million a year to broadcast the Tests as part of a $285 million deal signed in 2015 alongside pay TV companies Foxtel and BSkyB.

Industry sources who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the negotiation process is confidential said that Ten had lodged the bid late last week, offering to broadcast the Wallabies matches on its network again but for a lower price. International Tests played in Australia and New Zealand and all matches of the rugby World Cup that involve the Australian team must be broadcast on free-to-air television under anti-siphoning laws. The length of Ten's new deal is open to discussion as is the potential to pick up new game formats such as a State of Union, a similar format to the NRL's State of Origin. Ten and RA declined to comment.

Securing a new broadcast deal is one of the key priorities for RA because it will give the code financial certainty and the existing broadcast deal expires at the end of the year. A large amount of RA's revenue comes from the money that it receives from broadcasters, but the code is under further financial pressure because long-standing sponsor Qantas ended its relationship with RA after 30 years last week.

One of the challenges for sports codes is the coronavirus pandemic has allowed broadcasters to renegotiate the amount they pay to air sport. For years the cost of broadcasting sport has increased but the suspension of matches and lack of stadium audiences allowed Foxtel, Nine and Seven to secured deals with codes such as the NRL and AFL. Seven is separately currently trying to terminate its contract with Cricket Australia while Foxtel is trying to secure a reduction.

RA's package gives broadcasters the option to select different competitions and types of rugby content and air them on television screens. For example, a broadcaster can bid for combination of existing products like Bledisloe Cup matches and Shute Shield and new products such as a 'State of Union' three-game series. Sources have previously indicated Ten, which is owned by US entertainment giant ViacomCBS, wanted a $1 million annual reduction on what it pays, meaning it would give RA $2.5 million a year. The majority of the sport's broadcasting revenue comes from Foxtel.

Ten is the only free-to-air broadcaster to put in a bid for the rights so far. Seven West Media told Rugby Australia it was not interested while Nine Entertainment Co (owner of this masthead) has informally discussed options. However, no expression of interest or bids have occurred despite the governing body indicating to other bidders that a formal offer was made. Nine is closely watching the negotiation process.

Foxtel has not formally put in its bid but remains in discussions about airing Super Rugby and Test matches. Sources said that Foxtel's main priority is the cricket, not rugby union. Foxtel declined to comment. Fox Sports has broadcast Super Rugby since its began in 1996, but Foxtel boss Patrick Delany said earlier this month the subscription television operator would focus on acquiring TV rights to 'tier-one' sports moving forward.

Amazon, which last week secured the rights to a one-off Eight Nations tournament in Europe, previously declined to comment on whether it was involved in the local tender process. However industry sources since told The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age that they were interested, but is it unclear whether they intend to put in a formal bid. Optus was previously considered the front-runner for the rights to the rugby union but did not express a formal interest in the revised broadcast rights package when it was released last month.

The amount that rugby union receives could be influenced by how the cricket talks play out. If Seven successfully terminates its deal with CA, former broadcaster Nine and Ten could try to replace it and air the Test matches and Big Bash League. There are talks between these two broadcasters about a potential acquisition of the rights. If they pay for the cricket, it does not leave a large amount of money to bid for rugby union.
Wonder about the costs of the renegotiated fax machine contract? 1996 is on the phone - they want their business strategy back.
towny
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by towny »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:04 am Latest - side show to the Foxtel deal - ~30% less than previous. Rule of thumb would put Foxtel at $14 (down from $57m based on 70% of past offer) plus value of new product available.
Network Ten bids for rugby union, Amazon also enters picture
Zoe Samios
September 28, 2020 — 12.00am

Network Ten has bid for the rights to broadcast Wallabies Tests from next year but wants a cheaper deal from Rugby Australia that could put further financial pressure on the embattled code.

The television network currently pays RA about $3.5 million a year to broadcast the Tests as part of a $285 million deal signed in 2015 alongside pay TV companies Foxtel and BSkyB.

Industry sources who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the negotiation process is confidential said that Ten had lodged the bid late last week, offering to broadcast the Wallabies matches on its network again but for a lower price. International Tests played in Australia and New Zealand and all matches of the rugby World Cup that involve the Australian team must be broadcast on free-to-air television under anti-siphoning laws. The length of Ten's new deal is open to discussion as is the potential to pick up new game formats such as a State of Union, a similar format to the NRL's State of Origin. Ten and RA declined to comment.

Securing a new broadcast deal is one of the key priorities for RA because it will give the code financial certainty and the existing broadcast deal expires at the end of the year. A large amount of RA's revenue comes from the money that it receives from broadcasters, but the code is under further financial pressure because long-standing sponsor Qantas ended its relationship with RA after 30 years last week.

One of the challenges for sports codes is the coronavirus pandemic has allowed broadcasters to renegotiate the amount they pay to air sport. For years the cost of broadcasting sport has increased but the suspension of matches and lack of stadium audiences allowed Foxtel, Nine and Seven to secured deals with codes such as the NRL and AFL. Seven is separately currently trying to terminate its contract with Cricket Australia while Foxtel is trying to secure a reduction.

RA's package gives broadcasters the option to select different competitions and types of rugby content and air them on television screens. For example, a broadcaster can bid for combination of existing products like Bledisloe Cup matches and Shute Shield and new products such as a 'State of Union' three-game series. Sources have previously indicated Ten, which is owned by US entertainment giant ViacomCBS, wanted a $1 million annual reduction on what it pays, meaning it would give RA $2.5 million a year. The majority of the sport's broadcasting revenue comes from Foxtel.

Ten is the only free-to-air broadcaster to put in a bid for the rights so far. Seven West Media told Rugby Australia it was not interested while Nine Entertainment Co (owner of this masthead) has informally discussed options. However, no expression of interest or bids have occurred despite the governing body indicating to other bidders that a formal offer was made. Nine is closely watching the negotiation process.

Foxtel has not formally put in its bid but remains in discussions about airing Super Rugby and Test matches. Sources said that Foxtel's main priority is the cricket, not rugby union. Foxtel declined to comment. Fox Sports has broadcast Super Rugby since its began in 1996, but Foxtel boss Patrick Delany said earlier this month the subscription television operator would focus on acquiring TV rights to 'tier-one' sports moving forward.

Amazon, which last week secured the rights to a one-off Eight Nations tournament in Europe, previously declined to comment on whether it was involved in the local tender process. However industry sources since told The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age that they were interested, but is it unclear whether they intend to put in a formal bid. Optus was previously considered the front-runner for the rights to the rugby union but did not express a formal interest in the revised broadcast rights package when it was released last month.

The amount that rugby union receives could be influenced by how the cricket talks play out. If Seven successfully terminates its deal with CA, former broadcaster Nine and Ten could try to replace it and air the Test matches and Big Bash League. There are talks between these two broadcasters about a potential acquisition of the rights. If they pay for the cricket, it does not leave a large amount of money to bid for rugby union.
Link to the article please? Or do we even need to ask where this was reported? ;)
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kiap
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by kiap »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:26 am Well im no recruitment agent.
You sure about that?
kiwigreg369 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:26 am The last reported Foxtel offer - before RA going to the market - from Foxtel was 20m. That was pre-covid.
The pre-covid five-year Foxtel deal Raelene's mob rejected was ~$35m per year (i.e. 25m USD), which was around the same as their 2015 component.

Obviously Foxtel breathed a sigh of relief after that spurning, although clearly it would have been subject to renegotiation anyway, as per every sport almost everywhere. N.B. It is useful to bear in mind Uncle Rupe no longer controls BSkyB, and your cited $57m p.a. was the previous all-markets figure.

Sports broadcast rights are going down - you're right there - but we knew that already. This means RA will be looking at sources elsewhere, including private wealth.

Hence my question - Are you a guru on this - or not?
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kiwigreg369
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by kiwigreg369 »

I got the $20m from that article - but i think it is already the COVID reduced figure, rather than due another shave. And as you say $57m was the global figure.

Optus were rumoured to have offered $30m ish ...

Either way RA will be short of their $57m.

And yep - i can confirm:
- I'm not a recruitment consultant
- I'm not a guru or Towny level PE guru (as i said above i have limited PE knowledge)
RandomNavigat0r
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Re: Trans-Tasman comp to replace Super Rugby in 2021

Post by RandomNavigat0r »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:10 am I got the $20m from that article - but i think it is already the COVID reduced figure, rather than due another shave. And as you say $57m was the global figure.

Optus were rumoured to have offered $30m ish ...

Either way RA will be short of their $57m.

And yep - i can confirm:
- I'm not a recruitment consultant
- I'm not a guru or Towny level PE guru (as i said above i have limited PE knowledge)
Interesting. I was under the impression Optus never even made an offer.
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