Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

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Enzedder
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by Enzedder »

booji boy wrote:
Not sure players who were never any good to start with count do they? The OP says 'genuinely world class'.

So why were Stephen Donald and Sione Lauaki mentioned? :P
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CrazyIslander
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by CrazyIslander »

eldanielfire wrote:
Frodder wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
HKCJ wrote:Simon Taylor
Huw Jones
Quite what happened to Huw Jones? One section he's tearing up the 6 Nations, carving excellent running lines for fun and looking like he's a decent pass away from being the world's best 13. Then nothing!
I had Huw Jones (still convinced he's Welsh with that name) to take the Lions 13 shirt after destroying England in the 6Ns. He's really collapsed and as always Foxy will be back for his 3rd tour as starter
The thing is, Foxy is the sort of player who form is irrelevant. He will always suddenly get into form when big games come about.
But he was guaranteed his place because of Gatland. In that environment who's to say Jones wouldnt be as successful? Ditto AWJ, who's to say someone like Lawes wouldnt have done well. Those Lions squads gave every player a platform theyve never had.
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Uncle Fester
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by Uncle Fester »

Ian Madigan
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Re: Players whose form fell of a 'cliff'?

Post by tubbyj »

eldanielfire wrote:
True Blue wrote:
BlueThunder wrote:Charles Piatau, one day he was tearing it up for the Blues and then next minute "poof" he disappeared off the face of the earth, never to be seen again.
He could have been a great imo. He chose the money though.

To be fair he is one of ten siblings so I imagine the family pressure to earn would be enormous and he makes a lot of money overseas.
He always made this case. All Black Rugby just isn't as important as the situation of his families poverty to him. Fair play, it brings sport into context.
Which goes to show people will believe anything if said with conviction. If his family were so important to him wouldn't he want to spend his 20-40s living in the same city/country/hemisphere as them the majority of the time rather than in the opposite hemisphere especially if you could still earn money not that much lower than what you would in the other hemisphere to help them out financially. Wouldn't it be better to around in person to make sure that money is being spent on worthwhile things that will genuinely benefit their futures and help them out long term rather than just giving large sums of money from 18,000km away and hoping it is spent wisely?
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booji boy
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by booji boy »

Phantomb wrote:Ron Cribb.

Was a sensation at the Crusaders, knocking Scott Robertson out of the AB's. Played in both the 'Game of the Century' in 2000 and scored a fantastic solo try in the thrilling Super Rugby final between CRU and BRU.

Then in 2001 he went to the Blues, went to shit (and so did the Crusaders) and went to Japan in 2003.
John Mitchell and Robbie Deans happened to Ron Cribb.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by booji boy »

Enzedder wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Not sure players who were never any good to start with count do they? The OP says 'genuinely world class'.

So why were Stephen Donald and Sione Lauaki mentioned? :P
Must have missed them.

Stephen Donald's form didn't drop off a cliff. He was consistent throughout his career. Perhaps unfairly maligned after the loss in Hong Kong but The Don achieved immortality in the 2011 RWC Final. :smug: :thumbup:
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by jdogscoop »

Phantomb wrote:Ron Cribb.

Was a sensation at the Crusaders, knocking Scott Robertson out of the AB's. Played in both the 'Game of the Century' in 2000 and scored a fantastic solo try in the thrilling Super Rugby final between CRU and BRU.

Then in 2001 he went to the Blues, went to shit (and so did the Crusaders) and went to Japan in 2003.
Good shout. Went from being an ace AB 8 to being a judder bar for every decent international 8 going. fudge he sucked quickly.
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Re: Players whose form fell of a 'cliff'?

Post by Brumby_in_Vic »

tubbyj wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
True Blue wrote:
BlueThunder wrote:Charles Piatau, one day he was tearing it up for the Blues and then next minute "poof" he disappeared off the face of the earth, never to be seen again.
He could have been a great imo. He chose the money though.

To be fair he is one of ten siblings so I imagine the family pressure to earn would be enormous and he makes a lot of money overseas.
He always made this case. All Black Rugby just isn't as important as the situation of his families poverty to him. Fair play, it brings sport into context.
Which goes to show people will believe anything if said with conviction. If his family were so important to him wouldn't he want to spend his 20-40s living in the same city/country/hemisphere as them the majority of the time rather than in the opposite hemisphere especially if you could still earn money not that much lower than what you would in the other hemisphere to help them out financially. Wouldn't it be better to around in person to make sure that money is being spent on worthwhile things that will genuinely benefit their futures and help them out long term rather than just giving large sums of money from 18,000km away and hoping it is spent wisely?
:roll: Bristol are paying him close to £1 million a season. NZ can’t compete with that and don’t blame the player for taking the offer.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by Brumby_in_Vic »

Tom Bowman started off well for the Wallabies and was gone not long after that.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by CrazyIslander »

Brumby_in_Vic wrote:Tom Bowman started off well for the Wallabies and was gone not long after that.
I thought he would be better than John Eales but I think injuries ruined him.
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Re: Players whose form fell of a 'cliff'?

Post by eldanielfire »

tubbyj wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
True Blue wrote:
BlueThunder wrote:Charles Piatau, one day he was tearing it up for the Blues and then next minute "poof" he disappeared off the face of the earth, never to be seen again.
He could have been a great imo. He chose the money though.

To be fair he is one of ten siblings so I imagine the family pressure to earn would be enormous and he makes a lot of money overseas.
He always made this case. All Black Rugby just isn't as important as the situation of his families poverty to him. Fair play, it brings sport into context.
Which goes to show people will believe anything if said with conviction. If his family were so important to him wouldn't he want to spend his 20-40s living in the same city/country/hemisphere as them the majority of the time rather than in the opposite hemisphere especially if you could still earn money not that much lower than what you would in the other hemisphere to help them out financially. Wouldn't it be better to around in person to make sure that money is being spent on worthwhile things that will genuinely benefit their futures and help them out long term rather than just giving large sums of money from 18,000km away and hoping it is spent wisely?
You can't be that clueless. He's being paid 1 million a year at Bristol. That's almost 2 million NZD. I doubt he'd be on that as an All Black yet, if ever. Last I heard the ABs have 1 or 2 players on a little under 1 million NZD, who have had a long history as key players and a big drop-off to the rest. I'm sure he visits he family.

As for hoping they spend it wisely. We have no idea how he gets them the cash, he might buy houses, send them to good schools or give them money when something is needed or if they earn it. Why the assumption they wouldn't spent it well or that he's send masses of cash without any strings or goals attached to it.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by True Blue »

I was pretty salty when Piuatu left as I personally believe he was the best back to come out of Blues/Auckland in the 2010s, but then you see his family situation and you have to respect it. No one is going to turn down a 2x (or more) salary increase for doing the same job. I wouldn't. How many of us work overseas or at least in different cities from our birth, and yet we get shitty at rugby players with a short 15 year career for doing the same?

Personally I thought it was petty of Hansen for not selecting him for the RWC in 2015, but then again, Hansen had a bit of a petty streak imo.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by CrazyIslander »

True Blue wrote:I was pretty salty when Piuatu left as I personally believe he was the best back to come out of Blues/Auckland in the 2010s, but then you see his family situation and you have to respect it. No one is going to turn down a 2x (or more) salary increase for doing the same job. I wouldn't. How many of us work overseas or at least in different cities from our birth, and yet we get shitty at rugby players with a short 15 year career for doing the same?

Personally I thought it was petty of Hansen for not selecting him for the RWC in 2015, but then again, Hansen had a bit of a petty streak imo.
I wouldn't blame Hansen, I reckon it was a directive from the top. But the jersey is the only currency the NZRU has to stop/reward players who stay. IMO Julian Savea didn't deserve to go to RWC15 over Piutau on form but deserved it more because of loyalty and contribution. It is what it is, Piutau got his money, Savea got his medal.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by Jerome Manning »

Completely injury, but James Ryan was a sad loss to the All Blacks in the mid 2000s.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by af73 »

eldanielfire wrote:
Frodder wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
HKCJ wrote:Simon Taylor
Huw Jones
Quite what happened to Huw Jones? One section he's tearing up the 6 Nations, carving excellent running lines for fun and looking like he's a decent pass away from being the world's best 13. Then nothing!
I had Huw Jones (still convinced he's Welsh with that name) to take the Lions 13 shirt after destroying England in the 6Ns. He's really collapsed and as always Foxy will be back for his 3rd tour as starter
The thing is, Foxy is the sort of player who form is irrelevant. He will always suddenly get into form when big games come about.
Jones got injured, nothing serious but missed the 1st few games of the following season. Club coach (Rennie) seemed to prefer at times the hard working club pro to the star name and there was also the emergence of Kyle Steyn.

Jones looks to be the type of player that benefits from a consistent run of games and while his form on return from injury wasn't bad and certainly no worse than his rivals for the jersey, the apparent drop of from what had gone before made it stand out.

At national level....the unfathomable (to most except Townsend) Chris Harris happened :x
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by UncleFB »

True Blue wrote:I was pretty salty when Piuatu left as I personally believe he was the best back to come out of Blues/Auckland in the 2010s, but then you see his family situation and you have to respect it. No one is going to turn down a 2x (or more) salary increase for doing the same job. I wouldn't. How many of us work overseas or at least in different cities from our birth, and yet we get shitty at rugby players with a short 15 year career for doing the same?

Personally I thought it was petty of Hansen for not selecting him for the RWC in 2015, but then again, Hansen had a bit of a petty streak imo.
I don't think that's true at all, Piutau isn't special, lots of ABs (PI or not) could have commanded way more overseas than in NZ and yet they stayed. He went for the coin and I have no issue with that, but I have no sympathy for him for missing the RWC, he rolled the dice knowing there was a chance he'd miss out.
booji boy wrote:
Phantomb wrote:Ron Cribb.

Was a sensation at the Crusaders, knocking Scott Robertson out of the AB's. Played in both the 'Game of the Century' in 2000 and scored a fantastic solo try in the thrilling Super Rugby final between CRU and BRU.

Then in 2001 he went to the Blues, went to shit (and so did the Crusaders) and went to Japan in 2003.
John Mitchell and Robbie Deans happened to Ron Cribb.
Yep, there's way more than 'went to shit' with him, got injured, Mitchell sold him down the river (with Cully and Goldie), but as he didn't have the mana of those two got into a fight with the fish heads (had to sue the NZRU IIRC) and that was his career done.

Although he should have stayed at the Crusaders ... it was the easiest way to get into the ABs back then ... Sam Broomhall ...
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by Sonny Blount »

Royce Willis came and went.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by Jerome Manning »

Sonny Blount wrote:Royce Willis came and went.
My 1999 prediction was that Royce Willis and Norm Maxwell would form an all time great AB locking combo.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by UncleFB »

Sonny Blount wrote:Royce Willis came and went.
His form didn't fall of a cliff, he picked up too many injuries and moved to Japan for the actual easy rugby back then.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by booji boy »

Re Piutau I think if these guys are the incumbent All Black starters than more of them would stay but when they are in and out of the squad week in week out it must affect their earning power and you can't blame them for looking for more job security. Stephen Luatua is another who Springs to mind. Might have been the long term successor to Kaino but a slight dip in form saw him dropped.

Hansen expected these guys to hang around and earn less simply for the pride of the AB jersey. I wish we could keep players like these in NZ but don't begrudge them chasing financial security.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by Normac »

Brett Cameron. Can't even nail a full 80 minutes for his club side after his All Black career.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by Ali's Choice »

Normac wrote:Brett Cameron. Can't even nail a full 80 minutes for his club side after his All Black career.
His form hasn't fallen off a cliff though, because he's actually improved since he was test capped. He's terrible, but he's better now than he used to be. Another one of Steve Hansen, Ian Foster and Grant Fox's genius selections.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by Clive »

Alex Cuthbert fell off the cliff onto his head with his trousers and pants round his ankles, For some reason Gats kept on picking him, it was painful to watch, I've never seen player turn to shit so quickly, by the time he played his last match for Wales, the country wanted to Lynch him, but first have him flogged tied to gate 3 of the Principality stadium, then boiled in oil.
He recovered though and plays well for Exeter.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

Clive wrote:Alex Cuthbert fell off the cliff onto his head with his trousers and pants round his ankles, For some reason Gats kept on picking him,
Yeah, what kind of idiot coach would want to try and instill confidence in a test Lion by sticking with him and not discarding him completely through a rough patch?

You mug.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by Mahoney »

Why is 'cliff' in quotes? I presume the quotes are being used to signal that a metaphor is being used, but the metaphor is 'fell off a cliff', or at a stretch, if we accept that form as an abstract concept is something that non metaphorically goes up and down, 'off a cliff'. It makes no sense to quote 'cliff' in isolation.

(Not that any of it needs quoting - it's obvious that it's a metaphor, obvious what it means and such a cliche that any english speaker can be reasonably expected to be familiar with it as a metaphor anyway. It's making me think of one of those irritating people who does double quote hands in the air when they are talking, only even more irritating because they're putting it round the wrong bit of the phrase.)
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by Mahoney »

Four days I've been refraining from making that deeply petty post. Four days. And then I cracked.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by booji boy »

Image

I never have any success posting images from my tablet though someone once quoted my post and got it working. Any help gratefully accepted.
Last edited by booji boy on Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

You know whose form never fell? Cliff Morgan.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by Mahoney »

booji boy wrote:Image

I never have any success posting images from my tablet though someone once quoted my post and got it working. Any help gratefully accepted.
You need the image's address, not the address of the page it's on.
Image
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by booji boy »

Mahoney wrote:
booji boy wrote:Image

I never have any success posting images from my tablet though someone once quoted my post and got it working. Any help gratefully accepted.
You need the image's address, not the address of the page it's on.
Image
Cheers :thumbup:
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Re: Players who fell off a 'performance cliff'?

Post by badmannotinjapan »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Jerome Manning wrote:Rodney So'oialo and Jerry Collins.
JC not so much, but So'oialo is a great call. He went from hero to zero nearly as quickly as Julian Savea.
JC couldn't hurt a flie in his last season. He was awful. It was sad. Very sad to witness his decline.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by badmannotinjapan »

UncleFB wrote:
True Blue wrote:I was pretty salty when Piuatu left as I personally believe he was the best back to come out of Blues/Auckland in the 2010s, but then you see his family situation and you have to respect it. No one is going to turn down a 2x (or more) salary increase for doing the same job. I wouldn't. How many of us work overseas or at least in different cities from our birth, and yet we get shitty at rugby players with a short 15 year career for doing the same?

Personally I thought it was petty of Hansen for not selecting him for the RWC in 2015, but then again, Hansen had a bit of a petty streak imo.
I don't think that's true at all, Piutau isn't special, lots of ABs (PI or not) could have commanded way more overseas than in NZ and yet they stayed. He went for the coin and I have no issue with that, but I have no sympathy for him for missing the RWC, he rolled the dice knowing there was a chance he'd miss out.
booji boy wrote:
Phantomb wrote:Ron Cribb.

Was a sensation at the Crusaders, knocking Scott Robertson out of the AB's. Played in both the 'Game of the Century' in 2000 and scored a fantastic solo try in the thrilling Super Rugby final between CRU and BRU.

Then in 2001 he went to the Blues, went to shit (and so did the Crusaders) and went to Japan in 2003.
John Mitchell and Robbie Deans happened to Ron Cribb.
Yep, there's way more than 'went to shit' with him, got injured, Mitchell sold him down the river (with Cully and Goldie), but as he didn't have the mana of those two got into a fight with the fish heads (had to sue the NZRU IIRC) and that was his career done.

Although he should have stayed at the Crusaders ... it was the easiest way to get into the ABs back then ... Sam Broomhall ...
Ron Cribb was my favourite AB at the time. I met him in Japan. He was pissed about what happened. Injuries didn't help. He could have been a long term option at. Big, strong, hit hard and multi-skilled.
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Re: Players who fell off a 'performance cliff'?

Post by badmannotinjapan »

Wilderbeast wrote:Cullen’s final season in NZ was actually quite impressive. Nothing like his earlier years but easily good enough for genuine shock and dismay when he was overlooked for the AB squad.
Except we had an young inform fullback/wing/centre in Mills Muliaina. Better on defense, quick, utility value, better under the high ball and went in to play 100 tests.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by tiddle »

Jim Lahey wrote:Did ROG ever have a decent international game against a tier 1 side after Australia in November 2006?
Discuss.
wales 2009?
He closed out the england 2011 game pretty well.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by tiddle »

Uncle Fester wrote:Ian Madigan
There'll be loud calls for him to be back into team shortly enough
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Re: Players who fell off a 'performance cliff'?

Post by CrazyIslander »

badmannotinjapan wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:Cullen’s final season in NZ was actually quite impressive. Nothing like his earlier years but easily good enough for genuine shock and dismay when he was overlooked for the AB squad.
Except we had an young inform fullback/wing/centre in Mills Muliaina. Better on defense, quick, utility value, better under the high ball and went in to play 100 tests.
Mils was too inexperienced and didnt kick enough. Cullen was a great alround fullback, it's just his running was exceptional.
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badmannotinjapan
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Re: Players who fell off a 'performance cliff'?

Post by badmannotinjapan »

CrazyIslander wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:Cullen’s final season in NZ was actually quite impressive. Nothing like his earlier years but easily good enough for genuine shock and dismay when he was overlooked for the AB squad.
Except we had an young inform fullback/wing/centre in Mills Muliaina. Better on defense, quick, utility value, better under the high ball and went in to play 100 tests.
Mils was too inexperienced and didnt kick enough. Cullen was a great alround fullback, it's just his running was exceptional.
Disagree. Mils was a more complete player. Cully was brilliant on counter attack.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by Jim Lahey »

tiddle wrote:
Jim Lahey wrote:Did ROG ever have a decent international game against a tier 1 side after Australia in November 2006?
Discuss.
wales 2009?
He closed out the england 2011 game pretty well.
From memory he was liability all tournament in 09, dropkick and crossfield kick for Bowe aside.
I was pissed as a fart on a stag in Westport for the England game that year but have blurry memories of him being particularly shite that night and being bailed out by a heroic performance from BOD.
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Re: Players who fell off a 'performance cliff'?

Post by booji boy »

badmannotinjapan wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:Cullen’s final season in NZ was actually quite impressive. Nothing like his earlier years but easily good enough for genuine shock and dismay when he was overlooked for the AB squad.
Except we had an young inform fullback/wing/centre in Mills Muliaina. Better on defense, quick, utility value, better under the high ball and went in to play 100 tests.
Mils was too inexperienced and didnt kick enough. Cullen was a great alround fullback, it's just his running was exceptional.
Disagree. Mils was a more complete player. Cully was brilliant on counter attack.
Cully was brilliant but by 2002/03 injuries had taken their toll and he wasn't the freak that he had been 1996-2000. So yeah Mils was probably the preferred fullback by then. Doesn't make Mitchell's treatment of him any less shabby though.
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Re: Players whose form fell off a 'cliff'?

Post by Nolanator »

Mahoney wrote:Four days I've been refraining from making that deeply petty post. Four days. And then I cracked.
TBF, I had wondered about the quotation marks, myself.
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