What next for the South African Teams

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mdaclarke
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What next for the South African Teams

Post by mdaclarke »

If Super Rugby comes to an end what next?

I would like to see all 4 go north and make a pro 18.

I hope the Cheetahs don't loose out. Not bothered about the Kings
grievous
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by grievous »

Good to see you accepted the Super dooper thing is dead.
Now if you think our shit fight with the Kiwis right now is something wait till you try with the Celts :lol:
mdaclarke
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by mdaclarke »

grievous wrote:Good to see you accepted the Super dooper thing is dead.
Now if you think our shit fight with the Kiwis right now is something wait till you try with the Celts :lol:

I still hope Super Rugby survives but have to deal with things as they are, not how I want them to be.

Will be South African v Welsh TV money
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Jim Lahey
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by Jim Lahey »

Can you not take back the Kings and Cheetahs and just go back to Currie Cup?
Expanding competitions rarely, if ever, enriches them in our dear sport.
mdaclarke
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by mdaclarke »

Jim Lahey wrote:Can you not take back the Kings and Cheetahs and just go back to Currie Cup?
Expanding competitions rarely, if ever, enriches them in our dear sport.
Could do, but I think CVC will want the Big South African Teams in the competition
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sonic_attack
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by sonic_attack »

Currie Cup. Just get back to roots and have a quality local competition of local value. Saffers don't need 9 months of rugby anymore than NZ does.

Just kill it at home in a regular normal season.
SteveM
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by SteveM »

The competition is owned by the celtic nations and the CVC deal was on the cards before the SA teams joined.

The Italian teams pay about 3million euros a season between them to play in the Pro 14.

SA teams add little interest to the competition. In short no one up here cares about SA Rugby.
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CMAN
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by CMAN »

The obvious and most preferred option would be to emulate the English and French leagues. That means an eight team Currie Cup competition delivering 16 weeks of tribal rugby. Then we need our top 2-4 teams taking part in the European Champion Cup for the international component.

This would be the most sustainable solution and make it pandemic proof in future as domestic competitions beat cross border competitions any day. It will also draw interest from interested parties like CVC and will give SAR the extra capital not having to share a cent with other unions. Once this is up and running the next logical step would be to pull out from the Rugby Championship as it makes no sense having your domestic and international club competitions in one time zone and the Boks 66% in the NZ time zone. This is the future.
Ulsters Red Hand
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by Ulsters Red Hand »

Would love to see some of the Super teams in the pro 14/18. Getting to see the World Cup winners could work wonders here in terms of drumming up some interest. Even better still it could mean we could get rid of the Welsh as well :nod:
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by Ulsters Red Hand »

CMAN wrote:The obvious and most preferred option would be to emulate the English and French leagues. That means an eight team Currie Cup competition delivering 16 weeks of tribal rugby. Then we need our top 2-4 teams taking part in the European Champion Cup for the international component.

This would be the most sustainable solution and make it pandemic proof in future as domestic competitions beat cross border competitions any day. It will also draw interest from interested parties like CVC and will give SAR the extra capital not having to share a cent with other unions. Once this is up and running the next logical step would be to pull out from the Rugby Championship as it makes no sense having your domestic and international club competitions in one time zone and the Boks 66% in the NZ time zone. This is the future.
Even if you ignore the fact that you're not a European side, why should you play in the European champions cup without making up one of the domestic leagues?
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CMAN
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by CMAN »

Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
CMAN wrote:The obvious and most preferred option would be to emulate the English and French leagues. That means an eight team Currie Cup competition delivering 16 weeks of tribal rugby. Then we need our top 2-4 teams taking part in the European Champion Cup for the international component.

This would be the most sustainable solution and make it pandemic proof in future as domestic competitions beat cross border competitions any day. It will also draw interest from interested parties like CVC and will give SAR the extra capital not having to share a cent with other unions. Once this is up and running the next logical step would be to pull out from the Rugby Championship as it makes no sense having your domestic and international club competitions in one time zone and the Boks 66% in the NZ time zone. This is the future.
Even if you ignore the fact that you're not a European side, why should you play in the European champions cup without making up one of the domestic leagues?
Same time zone and why wouldn’t French or English teams not want to compete against the best SA teams. They have their bread and butter competitions and we have ours. At the end of the day broadcasters will decide and SA will bring their own broadcaster to the table.
mdaclarke
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by mdaclarke »

CMAN wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
CMAN wrote:The obvious and most preferred option would be to emulate the English and French leagues. That means an eight team Currie Cup competition delivering 16 weeks of tribal rugby. Then we need our top 2-4 teams taking part in the European Champion Cup for the international component.

This would be the most sustainable solution and make it pandemic proof in future as domestic competitions beat cross border competitions any day. It will also draw interest from interested parties like CVC and will give SAR the extra capital not having to share a cent with other unions. Once this is up and running the next logical step would be to pull out from the Rugby Championship as it makes no sense having your domestic and international club competitions in one time zone and the Boks 66% in the NZ time zone. This is the future.
Even if you ignore the fact that you're not a European side, why should you play in the European champions cup without making up one of the domestic leagues?
Same time zone and why wouldn’t French or English teams not want to compete against the best SA teams. They have their bread and butter competitions and we have ours. At the end of the day broadcasters will decide and SA will bring their own broadcaster to the table.

This. South Africa are the 3x and current world champions. Their teams have players like PSDT, Malherbe and Vermeulen. (the Bulls, Sharks, Stormers and Lions are much bigger clubs than the Cheetahs and especially Kings) If they play in European leagues/competitions more chance of keeping their players.
Ulsters Red Hand
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by Ulsters Red Hand »

CMAN wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
CMAN wrote:The obvious and most preferred option would be to emulate the English and French leagues. That means an eight team Currie Cup competition delivering 16 weeks of tribal rugby. Then we need our top 2-4 teams taking part in the European Champion Cup for the international component.

This would be the most sustainable solution and make it pandemic proof in future as domestic competitions beat cross border competitions any day. It will also draw interest from interested parties like CVC and will give SAR the extra capital not having to share a cent with other unions. Once this is up and running the next logical step would be to pull out from the Rugby Championship as it makes no sense having your domestic and international club competitions in one time zone and the Boks 66% in the NZ time zone. This is the future.
Even if you ignore the fact that you're not a European side, why should you play in the European champions cup without making up one of the domestic leagues?
Same time zone and why wouldn’t French or English teams not want to compete against the best SA teams. They have their bread and butter competitions and we have ours. At the end of the day broadcasters will decide and SA will bring their own broadcaster to the table.
Got to set some boundaries.
Ulsters Red Hand
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by Ulsters Red Hand »

mdaclarke wrote:
CMAN wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
CMAN wrote:The obvious and most preferred option would be to emulate the English and French leagues. That means an eight team Currie Cup competition delivering 16 weeks of tribal rugby. Then we need our top 2-4 teams taking part in the European Champion Cup for the international component.

This would be the most sustainable solution and make it pandemic proof in future as domestic competitions beat cross border competitions any day. It will also draw interest from interested parties like CVC and will give SAR the extra capital not having to share a cent with other unions. Once this is up and running the next logical step would be to pull out from the Rugby Championship as it makes no sense having your domestic and international club competitions in one time zone and the Boks 66% in the NZ time zone. This is the future.
Even if you ignore the fact that you're not a European side, why should you play in the European champions cup without making up one of the domestic leagues?
Same time zone and why wouldn’t French or English teams not want to compete against the best SA teams. They have their bread and butter competitions and we have ours. At the end of the day broadcasters will decide and SA will bring their own broadcaster to the table.

This. South Africa are the 3x and current world champions. Their teams have players like PSDT, Malherbe and Vermeulen. (the Bulls, Sharks, Stormers and Lions are much bigger clubs than the Cheetahs and especially Kings) If they play in European leagues/competitions more chance of keeping their players.
I'd welcome them in the domestic league but they can get stuffed if they think they can play in the ERC
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CMAN
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by CMAN »

Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
mdaclarke wrote:
CMAN wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
CMAN wrote:The obvious and most preferred option would be to emulate the English and French leagues. That means an eight team Currie Cup competition delivering 16 weeks of tribal rugby. Then we need our top 2-4 teams taking part in the European Champion Cup for the international component.

This would be the most sustainable solution and make it pandemic proof in future as domestic competitions beat cross border competitions any day. It will also draw interest from interested parties like CVC and will give SAR the extra capital not having to share a cent with other unions. Once this is up and running the next logical step would be to pull out from the Rugby Championship as it makes no sense having your domestic and international club competitions in one time zone and the Boks 66% in the NZ time zone. This is the future.
Even if you ignore the fact that you're not a European side, why should you play in the European champions cup without making up one of the domestic leagues?
Same time zone and why wouldn’t French or English teams not want to compete against the best SA teams. They have their bread and butter competitions and we have ours. At the end of the day broadcasters will decide and SA will bring their own broadcaster to the table.

This. South Africa are the 3x and current world champions. Their teams have players like PSDT, Malherbe and Vermeulen. (the Bulls, Sharks, Stormers and Lions are much bigger clubs than the Cheetahs and especially Kings) If they play in European leagues/competitions more chance of keeping their players.
I'd welcome them in the domestic league but they can get stuffed if they think they can play in the ERC
The only ones that will be stuffed will be the Irish teams if they face superior SA teams, and what would it look like if the SA winners of this league have to step aside for unworthy runner up Irish teams who do not qualify on merit for the ERC.

So rather we have our league, the French and English theirs, and the Celts and Italians their pro whatever.
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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

Please don’t join us
Nolanator
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by Nolanator »

It'll be Pro18.
Too many teams, no rivalries, massive travel distances. :thumbdown:
iarmhiman
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by iarmhiman »

no thanks. Get the status of the Currie Cup back to where it used to be as well as setting up a regional African competition
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Mullet 2
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by Mullet 2 »

These Africans are fierce uppity for a bunch of beggars with no mates
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CMAN
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by CMAN »

Nolanator wrote:It'll be Pro18.
Too many teams, no rivalries, massive travel distances. :thumbdown:
I’m totally against having our teams in the Pro whatever competition. It should go back to the Pro 12 and that’s that.
mdaclarke
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by mdaclarke »

Nolanator wrote:It'll be Pro18.
Too many teams, no rivalries, massive travel distances. :thumbdown:
I think you are right.

1 option may be

3 conferences of 6 teams. Each team plays the other in their conference twice and the others outside the conference once. Every team plays each other at least once.

Conference A = South Africa
Conference B = Wales and Italy
Conference C = Ireland and Scotland
mdaclarke
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by mdaclarke »

Mullet 2 wrote:These Africans are fierce uppity for a bunch of beggars with no mates
and 3 World Cups
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Mullet 2
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by Mullet 2 »

mdaclarke wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:These Africans are fierce uppity for a bunch of beggars with no mates
and 3 World Cups
Congrats, to South Africa.

Maybe they can get some cash on ebay for the replicas.
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PornDog
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by PornDog »

mdaclarke wrote:
Nolanator wrote:It'll be Pro18.
Too many teams, no rivalries, massive travel distances. :thumbdown:
I think you are right.

1 option may be

3 conferences of 6 teams. Each team plays the other in their conference twice and the others outside the conference once. Every team plays each other at least once.

Conference A = South Africa
Conference B = Wales and Italy
Conference C = Ireland and Scotland
The absolutely worst option of any possible solutions. You can kiss pro rugby goodbye in all of our countries if they are stupid enough to go down that route.
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Mullet 2
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by Mullet 2 »

mdaclarke wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:These Africans are fierce uppity for a bunch of beggars with no mates
and 3 World Cups
Congrats, to South Africa.

Maybe they can get some cash on ebay for the replicas.
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PornDog
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by PornDog »

Forum is drunk!!
Nolanator
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by Nolanator »

Conference systems are absolutely wank.
brat
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by brat »

Mullet 2 wrote:
mdaclarke wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:These Africans are fierce uppity for a bunch of beggars with no mates
and 3 World Cups
Congrats, to South Africa.

Maybe they can get some cash on ebay for the replicas.
Yeh one world cup every 12 years and nothing much else in between

Also their super sides have been pretty poor apart from a few years

Good luck with that
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Brumby_in_Vic
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by Brumby_in_Vic »

CMAN agreed about the Currie Cup the big issue is the weak Rand and the economic situation.
Ulsters Red Hand
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by Ulsters Red Hand »

Nolanator wrote:It'll be Pro18.
Too many teams, no rivalries, massive travel distances. :thumbdown:
Ok so we are agreed to get rid of the Welsh and it’s still the pro14 :nod:
mdaclarke
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by mdaclarke »

Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
Nolanator wrote:It'll be Pro18.
Too many teams, no rivalries, massive travel distances. :thumbdown:
Ok so we are agreed to get rid of the Welsh and it’s still the pro14 :nod:
Do you want to risk the loss of Welsh TV money
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Ali's Choice
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by Ali's Choice »

Will the South Africans be insisting for non-neutral referees like they did in Super Rugby? Because I am sure the Celtic rugby fans will soon grow tired of 20-1 penalty counts being officiated by South African referees in favour of their local teams. Openlyt biased referees was one of the main reasons why Super Rugby was failing, and yet the South African rugby fans loved it. The more brazen the bias was, the more they taunted NZ and Australian fans. The more lopsided the penalty counts the louder they laughed.
robmatic
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by robmatic »

Ali's Choice wrote:Will the South Africans be insisting for non-neutral referees like they did in Super Rugby? Because I am sure the Celtic rugby fans will soon grow tired of 20-1 penalty counts being officiated by South African referees in favour of their local teams. Openlyt biased referees was one of the main reasons why Super Rugby was failing, and yet the South African rugby fans loved it. The more brazen the bias was, the more they taunted NZ and Australian fans. The more lopsided the penalty counts the louder they laughed.
You maybe haven't seen the standard of reffing in the PRO14.
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Jim Lahey
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Re: What next for the South African Teams

Post by Jim Lahey »

robmatic wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:Will the South Africans be insisting for non-neutral referees like they did in Super Rugby? Because I am sure the Celtic rugby fans will soon grow tired of 20-1 penalty counts being officiated by South African referees in favour of their local teams. Openlyt biased referees was one of the main reasons why Super Rugby was failing, and yet the South African rugby fans loved it. The more brazen the bias was, the more they taunted NZ and Australian fans. The more lopsided the penalty counts the louder they laughed.
You maybe haven't seen the standard of reffing in the PRO14.
I’d argue thats down to incompetence rather than bias.
Excluding Nige if he’s reffing Munster of course.
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