Question for any muso, band member types - Drums

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Dark
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Question for any muso, band member types - Drums

Post by Dark »

Was watching a video of Queen at Wembley from years ago when Freddie was still around.

There looks like about 70,000 ish people in the crowd.

Obviously the guitars can just be pushed into amps and pumped through speakers so every one can hear it.

I have just always wondered how the basic drum kit works.

Is it just shit loads of microphones set up the right distance round the kit?

Also the band seemed to have no ear pieces in to actually hear themselves.

Must have been hard to do in those days with trying to get the timing right.
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Slim 293
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Re: Question for any muso, band member types - Drums

Post by Slim 293 »

Microphones...

Image
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Dark
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Post by Dark »

Slim 293 wrote:Microphones...

Image
:thumbup:

Thanks heaps!

That is really quite cool really.

Must have to be adjusted for certain songs etc, which accentuate the beat etc.

(Just thinking "We will Rock you")
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shanky
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Post by shanky »

Didn’t Phil Collins do something different with mikes that created that particular effect he’s famous for?
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Slim 293
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Post by Slim 293 »

Recording drums with Steve Albini if you want to geek out...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmP9z-xTRz0
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Post by Slim 293 »

shanky wrote:Didn’t Phil Collins do something different with mikes that created that particular effect he’s famous for?
Gated reverb drums...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxz6jShW-3E

https://www.musicradar.com/news/drums/c ... ght-590970
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Post by Dark »

shanky wrote:Didn’t Phil Collins do something different with mikes that created that particular effect he’s famous for?

I remember reading that John Deacon got Taylor to stuff the drums with blankets to make a crisper sound on "Another one bites the dust" and I think Led Zep positioning the whole kit in different rooms/halls when recording depending how big the rooms/halls were.

It is a bit of a science I will never be good enough to understand, but I think the technical side is probably severely underrated
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shanky
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Post by shanky »

Slim 293 wrote:
shanky wrote:Didn’t Phil Collins do something different with mikes that created that particular effect he’s famous for?
Gated reverb drums...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxz6jShW-3E

https://www.musicradar.com/news/drums/c ... ght-590970
Fascinating. Thanks. :thumbup:
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Dark
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Post by Dark »

Slim 293 wrote:
shanky wrote:Didn’t Phil Collins do something different with mikes that created that particular effect he’s famous for?
Gated reverb drums...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxz6jShW-3E

https://www.musicradar.com/news/drums/c ... ght-590970

Those are actually really cool videos

Thanks

:thumbup:
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Post by Dark »

Apologies.

Probably would have been more polite to post the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmSbCgVBaMM
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Post by mr bungle »

Nice one, Slim. The band will utilise foldback speakers to hear whatever parts of the mix they’re after.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stage_monitor_system
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Post by Dark »

mr bungle wrote:Nice one, Slim. The band will utilise foldback speakers to hear whatever parts of the mix they’re after.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stage_monitor_system
Cheers Bungle

I had seen those at concerts but never really thought about what they were for.

Kind of cool actually.

When you think about stadium concerts there is litterally out of time stuff going on all over the place the further out you go, so timing it must be an art form in itself.
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Post by Dark »

Having said that we are talking milliseconds, but still not good if you screw it up
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Post by A5D5E5 »

Dark wrote:Having said that we are talking milliseconds, but still not good if you screw it up
They are called delay towers.

https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/ho ... udio-10471
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Post by Dark »

A5D5E5 wrote:
Dark wrote:Having said that we are talking milliseconds, but still not good if you screw it up
They are called delay towers.

https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/ho ... udio-10471
Yeah, I had actually heard of them before I started thinking about the drum thing.

Didn't know about the differences in weather and temperature though.

It actually sounds quite full on,
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Post by Clive »

Back in the day the bands would use stage monitors not in ear, I have to say sound quality was much better in the 70 and 80's, queen for example had a custom built PA system.
Bands like Floyd Zeppelin Yes, had some of the finest PA systems in the world, huge speaker cabinets and better sound quality.
Now its all digital and sound shit.
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Post by Slim 293 »

The Grateful Dead wall of sound...

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Post by A5D5E5 »

Clive wrote:Back in the day the bands would use stage monitors not in ear, I have to say sound quality was much better in the 70 and 80's, queen for example had a custom built PA system.
Bands like Floyd Zeppelin Yes, had some of the finest PA systems in the world, huge speaker cabinets and better sound quality.
Now its all digital and sound shit.
What metrics are you using to compare the sound? If you were around in the 70s and 80s to hear PF, LZ, Yes and Queen then your ears are definitely not a reliable comparison.
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Post by shanky »

A5D5E5 wrote:
Clive wrote:Back in the day the bands would use stage monitors not in ear, I have to say sound quality was much better in the 70 and 80's, queen for example had a custom built PA system.
Bands like Floyd Zeppelin Yes, had some of the finest PA systems in the world, huge speaker cabinets and better sound quality.
Now its all digital and sound shit.
What metrics are you using to compare the sound? If you were around in the 70s and 80s to hear PF, LZ, Yes and Queen then your ears are definitely not a reliable comparison.
Judging by his posts, I suspect old Clive spent the entire 70s head-banging.
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Post by Short Man Syndrome »

Dark wrote:
shanky wrote:Didn’t Phil Collins do something different with mikes that created that particular effect he’s famous for?

I remember reading that John Deacon got Taylor to stuff the drums with blankets to make a crisper sound on "Another one bites the dust" and I think Led Zep positioning the whole kit in different rooms/halls when recording depending how big the rooms/halls were.

It is a bit of a science I will never be good enough to understand, but I think the technical side is probably severely underrated
I’m yet to see a bass drum that didn’t have a blanket or similar stuffed into it, they sound most odd without them - I don’t know why they don’t just design them differently.

Fold backs (wedges) are also very useful if you have any wild Steve Harris’ in the area. They like to perch with one foot on them, showing off their beautiful spandex colours. That, and being able to hear whether you are singing in key or not.
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Post by A5D5E5 »

Short Man Syndrome wrote:
Dark wrote:
shanky wrote:Didn’t Phil Collins do something different with mikes that created that particular effect he’s famous for?

I remember reading that John Deacon got Taylor to stuff the drums with blankets to make a crisper sound on "Another one bites the dust" and I think Led Zep positioning the whole kit in different rooms/halls when recording depending how big the rooms/halls were.

It is a bit of a science I will never be good enough to understand, but I think the technical side is probably severely underrated
I’m yet to see a bass drum that didn’t have a blanket or similar stuffed into it, they sound most odd without them - I don’t know why they don’t just design them differently.

Fold backs (wedges) are also very useful if you have any wild Steve Harris’ in the area. They like to perch with one foot on them, showing off their beautiful spandex colours. That, and being able to hear whether you are singing in key or not.
Spot the pro!
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Post by Clive »

A5D5E5 wrote:
Clive wrote:Back in the day the bands would use stage monitors not in ear, I have to say sound quality was much better in the 70 and 80's, queen for example had a custom built PA system.
Bands like Floyd Zeppelin Yes, had some of the finest PA systems in the world, huge speaker cabinets and better sound quality.
Now its all digital and sound shit.
What metrics are you using to compare the sound? If you were around in the 70s and 80s to hear PF, LZ, Yes and Queen then your ears are definitely not a reliable comparison.
Please go on.
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Clive
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Post by Clive »

shanky wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Clive wrote:Back in the day the bands would use stage monitors not in ear, I have to say sound quality was much better in the 70 and 80's, queen for example had a custom built PA system.
Bands like Floyd Zeppelin Yes, had some of the finest PA systems in the world, huge speaker cabinets and better sound quality.
Now its all digital and sound shit.
What metrics are you using to compare the sound? If you were around in the 70s and 80s to hear PF, LZ, Yes and Queen then your ears are definitely not a reliable comparison.
Judging by his posts, I suspect old Clive spent the entire 70s head-banging.
A repost by a 12 year old, how pathetic.
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Post by Flametop »

The wedges aren’t there to hear the music.
With your guitar strap at the correct length and your guitar hanging at the right height (halfway between your feet and your knees... occasionally you will need to put a foot up and rest the guitar on your knee.
Galloping Steve Harris indeed.
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Post by A5D5E5 »

Clive wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Clive wrote:Back in the day the bands would use stage monitors not in ear, I have to say sound quality was much better in the 70 and 80's, queen for example had a custom built PA system.
Bands like Floyd Zeppelin Yes, had some of the finest PA systems in the world, huge speaker cabinets and better sound quality.
Now its all digital and sound shit.
What metrics are you using to compare the sound? If you were around in the 70s and 80s to hear PF, LZ, Yes and Queen then your ears are definitely not a reliable comparison.
Please go on.
You stated that the sound quality in the 70s and 80s was "much better". I'm asking you how you are making this assessment.
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Clive
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Post by Clive »

A5D5E5 wrote:
Clive wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Clive wrote:Back in the day the bands would use stage monitors not in ear, I have to say sound quality was much better in the 70 and 80's, queen for example had a custom built PA system.
Bands like Floyd Zeppelin Yes, had some of the finest PA systems in the world, huge speaker cabinets and better sound quality.
Now its all digital and sound shit.
What metrics are you using to compare the sound? If you were around in the 70s and 80s to hear PF, LZ, Yes and Queen then your ears are definitely not a reliable comparison.
Please go on.
You stated that the sound quality in the 70s and 80s was "much better". I'm asking you how you are making this assessment.
Simple guitars amps basses PA was of a better standard, prized guitars come from the sixties, and thats a live sound, albums produced in the sixties 70;s are better in quality, its why we have people willing to pay lots of money for a mint Dark side Of Moon, or a vintage les Paul.
Or Vintage tube Marshall amps, My hearing is as good now as it was then and yes its been tested.
The music was better bands like the Who Floyd Purple Zep, were at their peak, today its dry and dull as beige wallpaper.
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Post by A5D5E5 »

Clive wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Clive wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Clive wrote:Back in the day the bands would use stage monitors not in ear, I have to say sound quality was much better in the 70 and 80's, queen for example had a custom built PA system.
Bands like Floyd Zeppelin Yes, had some of the finest PA systems in the world, huge speaker cabinets and better sound quality.
Now its all digital and sound shit.
What metrics are you using to compare the sound? If you were around in the 70s and 80s to hear PF, LZ, Yes and Queen then your ears are definitely not a reliable comparison.
Please go on.
You stated that the sound quality in the 70s and 80s was "much better". I'm asking you how you are making this assessment.
Simple guitars amps basses PA was of a better standard, prized guitars come from the sixties, and thats a live sound, albums produced in the sixties 70;s are better in quality, its why we have people willing to pay lots of money for a mint Dark side Of Moon, or a vintage les Paul.
Or Vintage tube Marshall amps, My hearing is as good now as it was then and yes its been tested.
The music was better bands like the Who Floyd Purple Zep, were at their peak, today its dry and dull as beige wallpaper.
Utter, utter bollocks. And I am somebody who ranks the day I bought my first Les Paul and Marshall alongside the birth of my children as the best days in my life. I'm afraid you just got old. It's shit, but it happens.

The reason people pay lots of money for a mint copy of a mass produced record is nostalgia. I agree that some old guitars are great, but so are comparable modern ones. There isn't a chance in a million years you could tell if a recording had an original '59 or a modern re-issue (or quite possibly a PRS or any number of other similar guitars).

Amp technology has improved but if you still want a replica handwired plexi or AC30 from 50 years ago you can have one.

It is fine for you to prefer the music from 40 or 50 years ago. I love it too. But it isn't objectively better or worse than anything recorded since. Just different.
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Post by Mick Mannock »

Clive wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Clive wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Clive wrote:Back in the day the bands would use stage monitors not in ear, I have to say sound quality was much better in the 70 and 80's, queen for example had a custom built PA system.
Bands like Floyd Zeppelin Yes, had some of the finest PA systems in the world, huge speaker cabinets and better sound quality.
Now its all digital and sound shit.
What metrics are you using to compare the sound? If you were around in the 70s and 80s to hear PF, LZ, Yes and Queen then your ears are definitely not a reliable comparison.
Please go on.
You stated that the sound quality in the 70s and 80s was "much better". I'm asking you how you are making this assessment.
Simple guitars amps basses PA was of a better standard, prized guitars come from the sixties, and thats a live sound, albums produced in the sixties 70;s are better in quality, its why we have people willing to pay lots of money for a mint Dark side Of Moon, or a vintage les Paul.
Or Vintage tube Marshall amps, My hearing is as good now as it was then and yes its been tested.
The music was better bands like the Who Floyd Purple Zep, were at their peak, today its dry and dull as beige wallpaper.
Um...no.
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Clive
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Post by Clive »

So your argument is you get old your hearing gets worse, I told you my hearing is fine no hearing loss and it was tested last year, I didn't mention recordings and being able to tell the difference of what guitar was what, I was taking live performance those bands I mentioned were at their peak back in the 70's you cannot argue with that, as for nostalgia that to is a untrue statement, I have mint recordings Of Yes The Who Zep floyd bought the year they came out they sound better.

You seem to be concentrating on getting old we look back with tinted glasses, and yet Zeppelin 71 75 peak years Floyd 72 77 peak years
Purple 70 - 74 peak years recording and live performance, most well established journo's would tell you that, I don't know who you like or saw but I attended hundreds of gigs, bands were at their creative best so try reading other peoples post first before you invent things to suit yourself, no wonder this site is going down the tubes.
Just to reiterate live concerts back then is NOT just a case of love it, IT was better, Unless you favourite artist was Phil Collins.
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Post by A5D5E5 »

Clive wrote:So your argument is you get old your hearing gets worse, I told you my hearing is fine no hearing loss and it was tested last year, I didn't mention recordings and being able to tell the difference of what guitar was what, I was taking live performance those bands I mentioned were at their peak back in the 70's you cannot argue with that, as for nostalgia that to is a untrue statement, I have mint recordings Of Yes The Who Zep floyd bought the year they came out they sound better.

You seem to be concentrating on getting old we look back with tinted glasses, and yet Zeppelin 71 75 peak years Floyd 72 77 peak years
Purple 70 - 74 peak years recording and live performance, most well established journo's would tell you that, I don't know who you like or saw but I attended hundreds of gigs, bands were at their creative best so try reading other peoples post first before you invent things to suit yourself, no wonder this site is going down the tubes.
Just to reiterate live concerts back then is NOT just a case of love it, IT was better, Unless you favourite artist was Phil Collins.
I'm not saying your ears are getting worse (though of course everyone loses the ability to hear high frequency sounds as they get older), but rather you are comparing things you heard during your teens and twenties with things you heard 20 or 30 years later (or more). It is impossible to compare things over such timescales and even harder to be objective given how much emotion is tied up in fantastic memories.

You made the point about "why people buy old guitars". My point about recordings is that it is impossible to tell an old guitar from a re-issue on a recording so their reasons are not due to the sound. (And live it is even more impossible - and I note the logical issues with that statement!). It is nostalgia and scarcity not some otherwise unattainable sound.

Now I have read enough guitar magazines and websites to know there are plenty of people who will swear blind that Pearly Gates or The Beast or Jimmy's #1 or #2 or some other guitar from that mythical period sound better than anything that has been produced since. I think it is bollocks. I'm sure they are exceptional guitars, but no more exceptional than many modern guitars. And certainly no better sounding. For proof, I will point to all the great recordings made with non-vintage guitars.

The idea that live sound reproduction reached its zenith at some point in the 70s or 80s and has been getting worse since is absurd. The technology of the 70s isn't some lost magic that nobody can reproduce. It has in part been superseded and replaced for a reason. I love my valve amps as much as the next guitarist, but that is all still in common use (and available to anyone who wants it). But the technology to take that sound and distribute it round a venue or a field is miles better than anything that existed half a century ago.
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