Pick your current All Black XXIII

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Ali's Choice
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Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Ali's Choice »

Based on everything, current form, experience, historical performances etc The only rule is they must be available and fit - so no injured or overseas based players.

15. Beauden Barrett
14. Sevu Reece
13. Jack Goodhue
12. Anton Lienart-Brown
11. Reiko Ioane
10. Richie Mo'unga
9. Aaron Smith

8. Hoskins Sotutu
7. Sam Cane (c)
6. Ardie Savea
5. Sam Whitelock
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
3. Nepo Laulala
2. Codie Taylor
1. Joe Moody

16. Dane Coles
17. Tyrell Lomax
18. Ofa Tu'ungafasi
19. Paripari Parkinson
20. Shannon Frizell
21. TJ Perenara
22. Ngani Laumape
23. Jordie Barrett

The only positions I'm unhappy with is the make-up of our backrow. I would love to play Ardie Savea at 8 and play Frizell as 6, but I think Sotutu is the form loose forward in SR Aotearoa and this is the time in the RWC cycle to be introducing new players. I don't like Ardie Savea at 6, but I would be reluctant to start Frizell (the form 6 in NZ) alongside a rookie no.8. We need experience and Savea has that.

Also the bench lock position is obviously a bit left-field but I think PPP is the best of the next generation of locks.

Jordie Barrett beats McKenzie for the 23 jersey because he has more versatility in the outside backs and we don't need someone who can play 10 on the bench.
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Mr Mike
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Mr Mike »

No specialist loosehead reserve is a concern, we are very light there.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Ali's Choice »

Mr Mike wrote:No specialist loosehead reserve is a concern, we are very light there.
There is no doubt that LH prop is our weakest position right now. Looking across the franchises there are a number of LH props that are never going to be good enough to play test rugby (eg. Ben May, Alex Hodgman, Aidan Ross, Daniel Lienart Brown). We've actually got decent depth at TH prop, but our LH stocks are dire.
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CrazyIslander
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by CrazyIslander »

I reckon Laumape at 12 with either SLB/Goodhue 13.
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Flockwitt
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Flockwitt »

Ali's Choice wrote:The only positions I'm unhappy with is the make-up of our backrow. I would love to play Ardie Savea at 8 and play Frizell as 6, but I think Sotutu is the form loose forward in SR Aotearoa and this is the time in the RWC cycle to be introducing new players. I don't like Ardie Savea at 6, but I would be reluctant to start Frizell (the form 6 in NZ) alongside a rookie no.8. We need experience and Savea has that.
A mix doesn't need to be set in stone as a starting loose trio. A horses for courses approach can be taken given the talent there. Having Ardie on the bench for a grinding first half where Cane, Sotutu and Frizell tackle everything in sight would only take a few games to get into the swing of things and Ardie can then slot in where best fits against the opposition. Or if they deliberately want a wide game in the first half to make the opposition run their legs off they can go with Sam and Ardie left and right.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Ali's Choice »

Flockwitt wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:The only positions I'm unhappy with is the make-up of our backrow. I would love to play Ardie Savea at 8 and play Frizell as 6, but I think Sotutu is the form loose forward in SR Aotearoa and this is the time in the RWC cycle to be introducing new players. I don't like Ardie Savea at 6, but I would be reluctant to start Frizell (the form 6 in NZ) alongside a rookie no.8. We need experience and Savea has that.
A mix doesn't need to be set in stone as a starting loose trio. A horses for courses approach can be taken given the talent there. Having Ardie on the bench for a grinding first half where Cane, Sotutu and Frizell tackle everything in sight would only take a few games to get into the swing of things and Ardie can then slot in where best fits against the opposition. Or if they deliberately want a wide game in the first half to make the opposition run their legs off they can go with Sam and Ardie left and right.
I still think that Ardie Savea is the best openside flanker in NZ and if he isn't wearing the All Black 7 jersey then we aren't picking our best team and we aren't using his talentsas effectively as possible. I also think that if he isn't wearing 7 then his best position is off the bench, because I don't think he's an elite test standard 8 or 6.
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Normac
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Normac »

Has Will Jordan not played his way into a spot? Him and Sotutu are the two standouts that I would expect to debut this year. Ioane hasn't done enough to warrant a starting wing spot in my opinion.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Ali's Choice »

Normac wrote:Has Will Jordan not played his way into a spot? Him and Sotutu are the two standouts that I would expect to debut this year. Ioane hasn't done enough to warrant a starting wing spot in my opinion.
It's going to be very hard for Will Jordan to get a look in. At fullback he's competing against Beauden Barrett, Damien McKenzie and Jordie Barrett, and at 14 he's competing against Sevu Reece and Jordie Barrett again. I think he will get test capped this season, but I don't think he'll be a starting AB until he can establish himself as a starter at the Crusaders.
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Normac
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Normac »

I can see him becoming a Ben Smith type player that can cover wing/fullback and, if played on the wing, will complement the other winger who has out and out pace and finishing ability like Reece with his more rounded game
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Wilderbeast »

I think Jordan could claim a wing spot alongside Reece but he needs to start for the crusaders.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Ali's Choice »

Wilderbeast wrote:I think Jordan could claim a wing spot alongside Reece but he needs to start for the crusaders.
What are your thoughts on Reiko Ioane at 13?

I must admit, I am not a fan. When he's playing well he's the world's best left winger, but IMO he's only so-so at centre. His main issues are he has a relatively weak passing game, he has no tactical kicking game and his defensive work is also only average. He's a brilliant ball runner but there's much more to playing centre than running with the ball.
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Wilderbeast »

I confess I haven’t followed as closely as you but I get a sense that he’s going alright without being amazing. Certainly haven’t seen anything special to make me sit up and take note. I don’t think we can move him back to wing though as he seems to have lost his explosiveness. Reece seems to have stolen it somehow?

IMO, Ioane would struggle to make the ABs under any coach but Foster.
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by UncleFB »

Wilderbeast wrote:I confess I haven’t followed as closely as you but I get a sense that he’s going alright without being amazing. Certainly haven’t seen anything special to make me sit up and take note. I don’t think we can move him back to wing though as he seems to have lost his explosiveness. Reece seems to have stolen it somehow?

IMO, Ioane would struggle to make the ABs under any coach but Foster.
WTF. Ioane would walk into the ABs and start under any coach except Hansen when he lost the plot last year. A mostly injured Ioane on the wing out ran and out scored all the other NZ contenders in last years Super comp, bar maybe Reece who got an armchair ride at the Crusaders (got shown up at RWC though).
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Ali's Choice »

UncleFB wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:I confess I haven’t followed as closely as you but I get a sense that he’s going alright without being amazing. Certainly haven’t seen anything special to make me sit up and take note. I don’t think we can move him back to wing though as he seems to have lost his explosiveness. Reece seems to have stolen it somehow?

IMO, Ioane would struggle to make the ABs under any coach but Foster.
WTF. Ioane would walk into the ABs and start under any coach except Hansen when he lost the plot last year. A mostly injured Ioane on the wing out ran and out scored all the other NZ contenders in last years Super comp, bar maybe Reece who got an armchair ride at the Crusaders (got shown up at RWC though).
:roll:
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Bayern »

The love-in with Goodhue is hilarious, he's never been anything more than an ordinary player...
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Wilderbeast »

UncleFB wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:I confess I haven’t followed as closely as you but I get a sense that he’s going alright without being amazing. Certainly haven’t seen anything special to make me sit up and take note. I don’t think we can move him back to wing though as he seems to have lost his explosiveness. Reece seems to have stolen it somehow?

IMO, Ioane would struggle to make the ABs under any coach but Foster.
WTF. Ioane would walk into the ABs and start under any coach except Hansen when he lost the plot last year. A mostly injured Ioane on the wing out ran and out scored all the other NZ contenders in last years Super comp, bar maybe Reece who got an armchair ride at the Crusaders (got shown up at RWC though).
The next RWC is years away. This is the time for rejuvenation. Wingers are first to lose their spots and there is heavy pressure for outside back positions between BB, DMac, Reece, JB, Bridge, Jordan. Even Ennor who made the squad last year. I don’t think a new coach would show any loyalty to Ioane’s past form and would be more interested in whether he’s going to get better or worse from here.

But I’d make a poor coach uncle, so don’t get too upset about my reckons :P
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Peteray »

Just one thing. Every time we move players to accommodate others so we can have 'both on the park,' we have come unstuck! Fullback must surely be between DMac and JordieB. Jordan is a definite 14/15, I think, even more so than Ben Smith was, so he can surely be accommodated on the bench. The midfield is also confused with Goodhue a certainty, but where? Inside ALB or outside Lumpy, and what do we do with Reiko? BBarrett and RMo must fight out 10 on form, and Snecky still heads off TJP at 9. Cane is not playing well enough, but lack of an experienced 8 will probably see Ardie there, Cane and Frizzell the other two. Sam and Paddy are the two senior locks, while PPP should be on the bench, and the front row could be any of 3 or 4 for every position. Foster's conundrum will not be who to play, but who not to.
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Sonny Blount »

Bayern wrote:The love-in with Goodhue is hilarious, he's never been anything more than an ordinary player...

Great player. Goodhue and ALB are locked in through to the next world cup.
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Dan54. »

I would think on form for whole year I would have Jordie at 15, probably goodhue at 12(Lumpy bloody close though) and ALB at 13? I was quite impressed with Ioane at 13, but not real sure. Loosies I would love to see are Cane, Frizell and Sotutu at 8, Ardie on bench, much as I like him I not sure he big enough for 8?
Bayern
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Bayern »

Sonny Blount wrote:
Bayern wrote:The love-in with Goodhue is hilarious, he's never been anything more than an ordinary player...

Great player. Goodhue and ALB are locked in through to the next world cup.
Oh I'm not expecting Fossie to think outside the box or make a raft of changes. I don't believe he has the wherewithall for the first and the latter would be admitting past mistakes.
Advantage South Africa/England....
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Wilderbeast »

Calling Foster shit for picking Goodhue would be quite the take...
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by jdogscoop »

Sonny Blount wrote:
Bayern wrote:The love-in with Goodhue is hilarious, he's never been anything more than an ordinary player...

Great player. Goodhue and ALB are locked in through to the next world cup.
Yeah, Bayern needs to put down the crack pipe.

Goodhue is near to our best centre.
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Bayern »

jdogscoop wrote:
Sonny Blount wrote:
Bayern wrote:The love-in with Goodhue is hilarious, he's never been anything more than an ordinary player...

Great player. Goodhue and ALB are locked in through to the next world cup.
Yeah, Bayern needs to put down the crack pipe.

Goodhue is near to our best centre.
This from the dullard that spouted Beau’unga was the key to negating the rush defense, how did that pan out Bobo? Love to stop and chat but alas bigger fish to fry, keep them coming though you're a riot.
Goodhue is our best centre, Oh my aching sides....
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Ali's Choice »

Goodhue is our best centre. Is this even up for debate? He's a phenomenal talent who has been close to the best midfielder on display in every match he's played this year.
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Wilderbeast »

Bayern wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
Sonny Blount wrote:
Bayern wrote:The love-in with Goodhue is hilarious, he's never been anything more than an ordinary player...

Great player. Goodhue and ALB are locked in through to the next world cup.
Yeah, Bayern needs to put down the crack pipe.

Goodhue is near to our best centre.
This from the dullard that spouted Beau’unga was the key to negating the rush defense, how did that pan out Bobo? Love to stop and chat but alas bigger fish to fry, keep them coming though you're a riot.
Goodhue is our best centre, Oh my aching sides....
Tbf, England didn’t beat us with rush defence.
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Magpie26 »

Bayern wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
Sonny Blount wrote:
Bayern wrote:The love-in with Goodhue is hilarious, he's never been anything more than an ordinary player...

Great player. Goodhue and ALB are locked in through to the next world cup.
Yeah, Bayern needs to put down the crack pipe.

Goodhue is near to our best centre.
This from the dullard that spouted Beau’unga was the key to negating the rush defense, how did that pan out Bobo? Love to stop and chat but alas bigger fish to fry, keep them coming though you're a riot.
Goodhue is our best centre, Oh my aching sides....
Pretty darn well if you watched the SA and Ireland games in the RWC. England didn't win because of their rush defence.
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Couch »

I think I speak for most people in saying Sam Cane number 7 Jersey is highly contestable, I'd put Lachlan Boshier and Dalton Papalii ahead of him in the loosies right now.
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Kiwias »

Couch wrote:I think I speak for most people in saying Sam Cane number 7 Jersey is highly contestable, I'd put Lachlan Boshier and Dalton Papalii ahead of him in the loosies right now.
A very convincing post apart from one small point, so trivial I feel dirty for raising it. Boshier is a blindside flanker.
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Zakar »

Can you pick that 6'2 ranga lock that plays for the Canes? And Garden Bishop at 10?
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by jdogscoop »

No one in their right might would pick Blacksick and Toilet-Bachop in the All Blacks.
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by jdogscoop »

Couch wrote:I think I speak for most people in saying Sam Cane number 7 Jersey is highly contestable, I'd put Lachlan Boshier and Dalton Papalii ahead of him in the loosies right now.
Die in a ditch, cvnt.
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by jdogscoop »

Bayern wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
Sonny Blount wrote:
Bayern wrote:The love-in with Goodhue is hilarious, he's never been anything more than an ordinary player...

Great player. Goodhue and ALB are locked in through to the next world cup.
Yeah, Bayern needs to put down the crack pipe.

Goodhue is near to our best centre.
This from the dullard that spouted Beau’unga was the key to negating the rush defense, how did that pan out Bobo? Love to stop and chat but alas bigger fish to fry, keep them coming though you're a riot.
Goodhue is our best centre, Oh my aching sides....
Mo'unga is a great 10 for repelling the rush defence.

What doesn't help, you complete fvcking retard, is when your forwards are getting done twice over.

There's fvck all Jesus H. Christ himself can do in that situation. Game over.
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Harveys »

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Bayern
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Bayern »

jdogscoop wrote:
Bayern wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
Sonny Blount wrote:
Bayern wrote:The love-in with Goodhue is hilarious, he's never been anything more than an ordinary player...

Great player. Goodhue and ALB are locked in through to the next world cup.
Yeah, Bayern needs to put down the crack pipe.

Goodhue is near to our best centre.
This from the dullard that spouted Beau’unga was the key to negating the rush defense, how did that pan out Bobo? Love to stop and chat but alas bigger fish to fry, keep them coming though you're a riot.
Goodhue is our best centre, Oh my aching sides....
Mo'unga is a great 10 for repelling the rush defence.

What doesn't help, you complete fvcking retard, is when your forwards are getting done twice over.

There's fvck all Jesus H. Christ himself can do in that situation. Game over.
More shite from the dullard who spent 2 days post match blaming the backs singling Reiko Ioane in particular even though he didn't actually play. You know nothing about rugby or anything else and prove that everytime you bang your bulbous forehead on the keyboard. You're an utter wanker with a big mouth that embarasses decent kiwis, that's all.
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by jdogscoop »

Bayern Ballbag wrote:
This from the dullard that spouted Beau’unga was the key to negating the rush defense, how did that pan out Bobo? Love to stop and chat but alas bigger fish to fry, keep them coming though you're a riot.
Goodhue is our best centre, Oh my aching sides....
jdogthegreat wrote:Mo'unga is a great 10 for repelling the rush defence.

What doesn't help, you complete fvcking retard, is when your forwards are getting done twice over.

There's fvck all Jesus H. Christ himself can do in that situation. Game over.
Bayern Ballbag wrote:More shite from the dullard who spent 2 days post match blaming the backs singling Reiko Ioane in particular even though he didn't actually play. You know nothing about rugby or anything else and prove that everytime you bang your bulbous forehead on the keyboard. You're an utter wanker with a big mouth that embarasses decent kiwis, that's all.
More bilge from an erroneous bellend. Please speed off a cliff at your earliest convenience.
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Couch »

Kiwias wrote:
Couch wrote:I think I speak for most people in saying Sam Cane number 7 Jersey is highly contestable, I'd put Lachlan Boshier and Dalton Papalii ahead of him in the loosies right now.
A very convincing post apart from one small point, so trivial I feel dirty for raising it. Boshier is a blindside flanker.
So is Cane
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by kiwigreg369 »

I think they’ll have another look at BB at 10.
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by CrazyIslander »

Did you guys see Laumape burn Beaudy on the outside ftom almost a standing start?
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Wilderbeast »

CrazyIsland :roll: er wrote:Did you guys see Laumape burn Beaudy on the outside ftom almost a standing start?
He wrong footed him. Think BB catches him with more ground but I don’t think anyone expected such pace from Laumape.
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Re: Pick your current All Black XXIII

Post by Sonny Blount »

jdogscoop wrote:
Bayern wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
Sonny Blount wrote:
Bayern wrote:The love-in with Goodhue is hilarious, he's never been anything more than an ordinary player...

Great player. Goodhue and ALB are locked in through to the next world cup.
Yeah, Bayern needs to put down the crack pipe.

Goodhue is near to our best centre.
This from the dullard that spouted Beau’unga was the key to negating the rush defense, how did that pan out Bobo? Love to stop and chat but alas bigger fish to fry, keep them coming though you're a riot.
Goodhue is our best centre, Oh my aching sides....
Mo'unga is a great 10 for repelling the rush defence.

What doesn't help, you complete fvcking retard, is when your forwards are getting done twice over.

There's fvck all Jesus H. Christ himself can do in that situation. Game over.

It was the backs who f**ked the forwards last year, they were out flanking their own pack.
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