IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

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Mullet 2
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IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by Mullet 2 »

https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... ssion=true

Probably already in a culture war thread but I'm not reading one of those shitshows.

Fair play to the IRB for being the first ones to call stop on this madness.
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by Hellraiser »

Mullet 2 wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... ssion=true

Probably already in a culture war thread but I'm not reading one of those shitshows.

Fair play to the IRB for being the first ones to call stop on this madness.

They still use the term "ciswomen" though, so let's not break our arms jacking them off just yet.
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by DOB »

Hellraiser wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... ssion=true

Probably already in a culture war thread but I'm not reading one of those shitshows.

Fair play to the IRB for being the first ones to call stop on this madness.

They still use the term "ciswomen" though, so let's not break our arms jacking them off just yet.
They've a fine needle to thread in this day and age, so let's cut them some slack in that department. They're leaving the door open enough to say they're being progressive, while managing to draw a line.
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by rfurlong »

science trumps feelings .... glad someone has come out and said it

watch rugby getting bashed online now for being a colonial, imperialist, sexist, privileged, cisgendered, white fiefdom...
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by kiwidutchie »

Image

This is the Australian Womens Handball team from 2018. Now Handball is a non contact sport. Imagine what could have happened in a contact sport where a trans player with a larger body mass slams into a smaller, slighter player who is a biological female.

You also have to remember that professional sport is a work environment, and there is an obligation on employers to provide a safe working environment as well.

This is a case of ideology meeting reality.
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Gavin Duffy
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by Gavin Duffy »

D'ya reckon he's grabbing their arses in a gesture of female solidarity.

Also, to clarify - that's OLYMPIC handball. Not to be confused with actual handball.
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by fatcat »

kiwidutchie wrote:Image

This is the Australian Womens Handball team from 2018. Now Handball is a non contact sport. Imagine what could have happened in a contact sport where a trans player with a larger body mass slams into a smaller, slighter player who is a biological female.

You also have to remember that professional sport is a work environment, and there is an obligation on employers to provide a safe working environment as well.

This is a case of ideology meeting reality.
That's the team manager, nitwit.
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by nardol »

You my must holiday in Thailand a lot
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by fatcat »

nardol wrote:You my must holiday in Thailand a lot
Why, do you think he looks like Elon Musk's pedo diver?
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by rfurlong »

fatcat wrote:
kiwidutchie wrote:Image

This is the Australian Womens Handball team from 2018. Now Handball is a non contact sport. Imagine what could have happened in a contact sport where a trans player with a larger body mass slams into a smaller, slighter player who is a biological female.

You also have to remember that professional sport is a work environment, and there is an obligation on employers to provide a safe working environment as well.

This is a case of ideology meeting reality.
That's the team manager, nitwit.
:lol:

The number 6 is giving you the eye fatcat :thumbup:
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

The correct decision.

This insanity needs to stop.
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by Salient »

Blackrock Bullet wrote:The correct decision.

This insanity needs to stop.
Only going to get worse Bro, Hollyweird currently living up to the name with reported new hiring rules :shock:
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by camroc1 »

As World Rugby’s working group notes, players who are assigned male at birth and whose puberty and development is influenced by androgens/testosterone “are stronger by 25%-50%, are 30% more powerful, 40% heavier, and about 15% faster than players who are assigned female at birth (who do not experience an androgen-influenced development).”
What a roundabout way of saying biological males are stronger, faster and more powerful than biological females.
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by Nolanator »

camroc1 wrote:
As World Rugby’s working group notes, players who are assigned male at birth and whose puberty and development is influenced by androgens/testosterone “are stronger by 25%-50%, are 30% more powerful, 40% heavier, and about 15% faster than players who are assigned female at birth (who do not experience an androgen-influenced development).”
What a roundabout way of saying biological males are stronger, faster and more powerful than biological females.
Like DOB said, they're navigating treacherous waters, in terms of the communication. They have to be very precise and scientific in their language to avoid any criticisms of their decision being based on prejudice etc.
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by eldanielfire »

Nolanator wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
As World Rugby’s working group notes, players who are assigned male at birth and whose puberty and development is influenced by androgens/testosterone “are stronger by 25%-50%, are 30% more powerful, 40% heavier, and about 15% faster than players who are assigned female at birth (who do not experience an androgen-influenced development).”
What a roundabout way of saying biological males are stronger, faster and more powerful than biological females.
Like DOB said, they're navigating treacherous waters, in terms of the communication. They have to be very precise and scientific in their language to avoid any criticisms of their decision being based on prejudice etc.
Also to avoid the lawyers winning.
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by DOB »

Nolanator wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
As World Rugby’s working group notes, players who are assigned male at birth and whose puberty and development is influenced by androgens/testosterone “are stronger by 25%-50%, are 30% more powerful, 40% heavier, and about 15% faster than players who are assigned female at birth (who do not experience an androgen-influenced development).”
What a roundabout way of saying biological males are stronger, faster and more powerful than biological females.
Like DOB said, they're navigating treacherous waters, in terms of the communication. They have to be very precise and scientific in their language to avoid any criticisms of their decision being based on prejudice etc.
They have to be very precise in their language.
They also have to be very scientific in their language.
But they also have to carefully negotiate certain areas where these 2 things can clash.

Hopefully they have scientific studies to back up the numbers they've provided.
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by RodneyRegis »

What's this 'assigned' nonsense?
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by Hellraiser »

RodneyRegis wrote:What's this 'assigned' nonsense?

Just that. Nonsense.
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by DOB »

DOB wrote: They have to be very precise in their language.
They also have to be very scientific in their language.
But they also have to carefully negotiate certain areas where these 2 things can clash.
To add; They also have to be very careful to not let Hellraiser or Rodney Regis appear as mouthpieces for the sport.
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by eldanielfire »

DOB wrote:
DOB wrote: They have to be very precise in their language.
They also have to be very scientific in their language.
But they also have to carefully negotiate certain areas where these 2 things can clash.
To add; They also have to be very careful to not let Hellraiser or Rodney Regis appear as mouthpieces for the sport.
Or Mullet! :lol:
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by DOB »

eldanielfire wrote:
DOB wrote:
DOB wrote: They have to be very precise in their language.
They also have to be very scientific in their language.
But they also have to carefully negotiate certain areas where these 2 things can clash.
To add; They also have to be very careful to not let Hellraiser or Rodney Regis appear as mouthpieces for the sport.
Or Mullet! :lol:
I think even the IRB would have worked that one out a long, long time ago.
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by rfurlong »

DOB wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
DOB wrote:
DOB wrote: They have to be very precise in their language.
They also have to be very scientific in their language.
But they also have to carefully negotiate certain areas where these 2 things can clash.
To add; They also have to be very careful to not let Hellraiser or Rodney Regis appear as mouthpieces for the sport.
Or Mullet! :lol:
I think even the IRB would have worked that one out a long, long time ago.
Mullet as Inclusion and Diversity Officer in World Rugby? Where do I sign that Change.org petition?
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by eldanielfire »

rfurlong wrote:
DOB wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
DOB wrote:
DOB wrote: They have to be very precise in their language.
They also have to be very scientific in their language.
But they also have to carefully negotiate certain areas where these 2 things can clash.
To add; They also have to be very careful to not let Hellraiser or Rodney Regis appear as mouthpieces for the sport.
Or Mullet! :lol:
I think even the IRB would have worked that one out a long, long time ago.
Mullet as Inclusion and Diversity Officer in World Rugby? Where do I sign that Change.org petition?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbup:
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by DOB »

rfurlong wrote: Mullet as Inclusion and Diversity Officer in World Rugby? Where do I sign that Change.org petition?
"Prods allowed, as long as they agree to attend the club carvery lunch one Sunday in every month."
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by Clogs »

fatcat wrote:
kiwidutchie wrote:Image

This is the Australian Womens Handball team from 2018. Now Handball is a non contact sport. Imagine what could have happened in a contact sport where a trans player with a larger body mass slams into a smaller, slighter player who is a biological female.

You also have to remember that professional sport is a work environment, and there is an obligation on employers to provide a safe working environment as well.

This is a case of ideology meeting reality.
That's the team manager, nitwit.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

And it is this. This right here. That keeps me returning to this website. That really tickled me.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by Nieghorn »

Speaking of careful language ... what does this bit from near the end of the article mean?

Does "remain involved" mean ... still come out to watch or maybe coach or ref?
However, World Rugby says it is committed to encourage transgender people to remain involved with rugby...
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by Nolanator »

DOB wrote:
DOB wrote: They have to be very precise in their language.
They also have to be very scientific in their language.
But they also have to carefully negotiate certain areas where these 2 things can clash.
To add; They also have to be very careful to not let Hellraiser or Rodney Regis appear as mouthpieces for the sport.
:lol:
Exactly!
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by Mog The Almighty »

I know I'll probably get flamed for this, but there was an interesting Joe Rogan podcast on transgender issues a couple of days ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtftWcgXjdg

One interesting statistic was that if you take one of (or the?) most successful US female Olympic runner, who has more medals than Usain Bolt, at the time she broke the world record for the 400m in the Olympics, there were over 300 high school boys in the country that could have beaten her.

It's well worth a watch, and it seems that the US is going a little bit bonkers on this issue. It's interesting to note that the evidence suggests that the vast majority of children who express an interest in transistion end up as perfectly happy homosexual adults and glad that they did not transition. Also the rate of teenage girls claiming to be trans-gender and then taking hormones and the like in groups (like them and their friends are all trans) is worrying.
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by CrazyIslander »

Clogs wrote:
fatcat wrote:
kiwidutchie wrote:Image

This is the Australian Womens Handball team from 2018. Now Handball is a non contact sport. Imagine what could have happened in a contact sport where a trans player with a larger body mass slams into a smaller, slighter player who is a biological female.

You also have to remember that professional sport is a work environment, and there is an obligation on employers to provide a safe working environment as well.

This is a case of ideology meeting reality.
That's the team manager, nitwit.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

And it is this. This right here. That keeps me returning to this website. That really tickled me.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol:
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by mdaclarke »

Mog The Almighty wrote:I know I'll probably get flamed for this, but there was an interesting Joe Rogan podcast on transgender issues a couple of days ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtftWcgXjdg

One interesting statistic was that if you take one of (or the?) most successful US female Olympic runner, who has more medals than Usain Bolt, at the time she broke the world record for the 400m in the Olympics, there were over 300 high school boys in the country that could have beaten her.

It's well worth a watch, and it seems that the US is going a little bit bonkers on this issue. It's interesting to note that the evidence suggests that the vast majority of children who express an interest in transistion end up as perfectly happy homosexual adults and glad that they did not transition. Also the rate of teenage girls claiming to be trans-gender and then taking hormones and the like in groups (like them and their friends are all trans) is worrying.

This is why we have men's and women's sports. A similar thing happened in football

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a ... %20website.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 57266.html
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by Mullet 2 »

DOB wrote:
rfurlong wrote: Mullet as Inclusion and Diversity Officer in World Rugby? Where do I sign that Change.org petition?
"Prods allowed, as long as they agree to attend the club carvery lunch one Sunday in every month."
You always were soft on the Prods question
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by msp. »

mdaclarke wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:I know I'll probably get flamed for this, but there was an interesting Joe Rogan podcast on transgender issues a couple of days ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtftWcgXjdg

One interesting statistic was that if you take one of (or the?) most successful US female Olympic runner, who has more medals than Usain Bolt, at the time she broke the world record for the 400m in the Olympics, there were over 300 high school boys in the country that could have beaten her.

It's well worth a watch, and it seems that the US is going a little bit bonkers on this issue. It's interesting to note that the evidence suggests that the vast majority of children who express an interest in transistion end up as perfectly happy homosexual adults and glad that they did not transition. Also the rate of teenage girls claiming to be trans-gender and then taking hormones and the like in groups (like them and their friends are all trans) is worrying.

This is why we have men's and women's sports. A similar thing happened in football

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a ... %20website.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 57266.html
That is quite something, the US women's team are amongst the best women's teams in the world, whilst I am sure the Dallas U15 team are good players, I am not sure were they would rank against European or South American U15 teams..
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by kiwidutchie »

fatcat wrote:
kiwidutchie wrote:Image

This is the Australian Womens Handball team from 2018. Now Handball is a non contact sport. Imagine what could have happened in a contact sport where a trans player with a larger body mass slams into a smaller, slighter player who is a biological female.

You also have to remember that professional sport is a work environment, and there is an obligation on employers to provide a safe working environment as well.

This is a case of ideology meeting reality.
That's the team manager, nitwit.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannah_Mouncey
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by wsurfa »

Didnt this Hannah chap get booted out for demanding to shower with the ladies, who weren't too keen on sharing with showers with meat&2veg equipment, the horrible TERFs
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by Leinster in London »

Nieghorn wrote:Speaking of careful language ... what does this bit from near the end of the article mean?

Does "remain involved" mean ... still come out to watch or maybe coach or ref?
However, World Rugby says it is committed to encourage transgender people to remain involved with rugby...
Or play on the mens team. Real Diversity!
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by Mog The Almighty »

It's completely insane that this has been allowed to go as far as it has. When you're offended or insulted by scientific reality, you need to adjust your own ideologies, not try and bend reality to your liking.

People are welcome to identify as whatever they like, and I'll do them the courtesy of going along with it too, but it's simply unfair for "ex-men" to demand to play in women's sporting teams. More than that it's down-right dangerous for sports like rugby.
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by msp. »

Speaking of careful language ... what does this bit from near the end of the article mean?

Does "remain involved" mean ... still come out to watch or maybe coach or ref?

However, World Rugby says it is committed to encourage transgender people to remain involved with rugby...
Assume it will mean it will support transgender teams, but as most clubs struggle to get the numbers for woman's teams, I cannot see many (outside of large cities i.e. London) getting anywhere near the numbers.

If the Olympics say it is ok, for transgender women to compete as long as they been on testosterone reduction for a year, and world rugby says no.. what happens for Olympic 7's, Who’s rules take precedence? (although it may be academic as a transgender women would not get selected as they could not play in the "selection" matches).
Last edited by msp. on Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by earl the beaver »

msp. wrote:
mdaclarke wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:I know I'll probably get flamed for this, but there was an interesting Joe Rogan podcast on transgender issues a couple of days ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtftWcgXjdg

One interesting statistic was that if you take one of (or the?) most successful US female Olympic runner, who has more medals than Usain Bolt, at the time she broke the world record for the 400m in the Olympics, there were over 300 high school boys in the country that could have beaten her.

It's well worth a watch, and it seems that the US is going a little bit bonkers on this issue. It's interesting to note that the evidence suggests that the vast majority of children who express an interest in transistion end up as perfectly happy homosexual adults and glad that they did not transition. Also the rate of teenage girls claiming to be trans-gender and then taking hormones and the like in groups (like them and their friends are all trans) is worrying.

This is why we have men's and women's sports. A similar thing happened in football

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a ... %20website.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 57266.html
That is quite something, the US women's team are amongst the best women's teams in the world, whilst I am sure the Dallas U15 team are good players, I am not sure were they would rank against European or South American U15 teams..
Men have an athletic advantage in practically all sports but the big ones in football are height and pace.

In men's football the keepers are on average 6'2 and can cover the goal, long range shots tend to be screamers as anything not travelling or swerving means the keeper has time to cover even the top corners. In women's football the keepers don't have the size to cover the goal (or the athleticism tbf) and a well placed shot from outside of the box has a much higher percentage chance of going in, realistically women should play with a smaller net due to this but that is considered sexist.
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by eldanielfire »

msp. wrote:
Speaking of careful language ... what does this bit from near the end of the article mean?

Does "remain involved" mean ... still come out to watch or maybe coach or ref?

However, World Rugby says it is committed to encourage transgender people to remain involved with rugby...
Assume it will mean it will support transgender teams, but as most clubs struggle to get the numbers for woman's teams, I cannot see many (outside of large cities i.e. London) getting anywhere near the numbers.

If the Olympics say it is ok, for transgender women to compete as long as they been on testosterone reduction for a year, and world rugby says no.. what happens for Olympic 7's, Who’s rules take precedence? (although it may be academic as a transgender women would not get selected as they could not play in the "selection" matches).
Sport authorities can have rules separate to the Olympics. So to play Olympic 7's you would need to satisfy World Rugby and Olympic criteria to play.
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Re: IRB first to call bullshit on Trans Sport

Post by eldanielfire »

earl the beaver wrote:
msp. wrote:
mdaclarke wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:I know I'll probably get flamed for this, but there was an interesting Joe Rogan podcast on transgender issues a couple of days ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtftWcgXjdg

One interesting statistic was that if you take one of (or the?) most successful US female Olympic runner, who has more medals than Usain Bolt, at the time she broke the world record for the 400m in the Olympics, there were over 300 high school boys in the country that could have beaten her.

It's well worth a watch, and it seems that the US is going a little bit bonkers on this issue. It's interesting to note that the evidence suggests that the vast majority of children who express an interest in transistion end up as perfectly happy homosexual adults and glad that they did not transition. Also the rate of teenage girls claiming to be trans-gender and then taking hormones and the like in groups (like them and their friends are all trans) is worrying.

This is why we have men's and women's sports. A similar thing happened in football

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a ... %20website.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 57266.html
That is quite something, the US women's team are amongst the best women's teams in the world, whilst I am sure the Dallas U15 team are good players, I am not sure were they would rank against European or South American U15 teams..
Men have an athletic advantage in practically all sports but the big ones in football are height and pace.

In men's football the keepers are on average 6'2 and can cover the goal, long range shots tend to be screamers as anything not travelling or swerving means the keeper has time to cover even the top corners. In women's football the keepers don't have the size to cover the goal (or the athleticism tbf) and a well placed shot from outside of the box has a much higher percentage chance of going in, realistically women should play with a smaller net due to this but that is considered sexist.
Though many sports do have separate measurements for women. Volleyball has a lower net. Tennis uses lighter balls, the hurdles are lower for women in Athletics. as are the throwing items, Shot Putt, Javelin and Discus.

However you are right. Sex politics does come into it. Especially when there is some weird fixation on being like the men rather than optimising for women. The WNBA is a classic example. I read that the bets dunked Brittany Griner has only dunked the ball 12 times in her whole 10 year career. There are 13 year olds in the USA who dunk regularly. The women's shots are poor and look really bad at times. The uniforms are basically women wearing men's clothes.

But there is a political block from the players themselves to reducing the height of the basket (even though they already use a smaller ball), which the main reason the WNBA looks like a poor and unexciting game. It's so bad it's actually lost viewers since the 1990's in an era where most women's sports are growing in followers.
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