Suspicion still exists wrong man was given All Black role..

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RandomNavigat0r
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Suspicion still exists wrong man was given All Black role..

Post by RandomNavigat0r »

Does Fosters selection confirm that any moron can coach the All Blacks or will he run the team into the ground similar to Wayne Smith's flakey All Blacks in 2000/2001? I guess we wont find out until the world cup is upon us. But with absolutely nothing wrong with the current All Black outfit and everything wrong with the Wallabies then France 2023 should be in the bag, right?
Suspicion still exists that the wrong man was given charge of the All Blacks.

27 July 2020, 8:37am
By Hamish Bidwell

Ian Foster must be cursing COVID-19.

In case you missed it, Foster was a very unpopular choice as All Blacks head coach. So unpopular that, if you believe a recent player poll, even they aren’t too enthused about him or his staff.

In an ideal world, Foster would be three tests into his tenure by now. Three tests - two against Wales and one against Scotland - that you assume would have provided him with a winning start to life in charge.

Instead the tentative opening of the test rugby window is scheduled for October 24, with preliminary plans in place for New Zealand to host the entire Rugby Championship during November and December.

None of that’s over the line, of course, meaning no one’s really had a chance to come to terms with the fact Foster really is the All Blacks’ coach.

Even all these months on, it seems hard to comprehend that New Zealand Rugby (NZR) could actually appoint the guy.

Surely this is the most sought-after job in world rugby and one fit for only the finest applicants. With all due respect to Foster, it’s still hard not to feel there were better options out there.

The suspension of test rugby hasn’t helped him, though.

It was only the other week when former All Blacks coach Steve Hansen was quoted on a variety of issues, including the state of Australian rugby. Scribes everywhere leapt upon those comments and there were the inevitable long bows drawn suggesting New Zealand rugby folk are insufferably smug and arrogant.

Overlooked in all that was Foster. Perhaps emboldened by the words of his old boss, he piped up too. Difference was no one really took umbrage.

The issue there is one of standing. Hansen has plenty and Foster very little and that won’t change until he can coax two or three years worth of emphatic performances from the men in the black.

In the meantime, though, the man is scarcely relevant.

Again, the cancellation of this month’s tests against Wales and Scotland hasn’t helped.

In the absence of test footy, Super Rugby Aotearoa has further underlined what a fine job Scott Robertson does as coach of the Crusaders.

Rain, hail or shine, the players in that team continually produce performances their fans can be proud of. Most of the time those performances translate into wins too.

A story surfaced recently suggesting Robertson rather baffled the panel trying to pick between he and Foster for the All Blacks’ coaching job last year.

First of all, many people end up confused after talking to Robertson. Whether by accident or design, the man isn’t the easiest to get a straight answer from.

But the Crusaders’ players seem to understand him all right and surely they’re the only people that matter.

More important, though, is this idea that presentations to panels matter. That a coach should be judged not on his record, but on the way he interviews for a job.

Robertson didn’t inherit a Crusaders franchise in rude health. There’d been a gradual decline under Todd Blackadder, so the results in the three and a bit years since speak volumes for Robertson and his methods.

Players and coaches have come and gone, but the outcomes have always stayed the same.

That’s the difficulty for Foster. People think Robertson is a good coach because that belief is borne out in the Crusaders’ results week after week, year after year.

Foster hasn’t been afforded that luxury yet, that chance to prove there was more to his appointment than cronyism and succession planning. That he can emerge from Hansen’s shadow and show us all he’s worthy of the role he inherited.

Unfortunately, the longer it takes to get test rugby back on the schedule, the longer the suspicion will persist that the wrong man was given charge of the All Blacks.
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kiwigreg369
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Post by kiwigreg369 »

Fair article, reasonable point made.
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Ted.
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Post by Ted. »

"Suspicion"????

It's proven beyond any doubt, Foster has done nothing. Nothing!
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message #2527204
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Post by message #2527204 »

Surely this is the most sought-after job in world rugby and one fit for only the finest applicants.
It has to be the easiest job in world rugby.
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Muttonbirds
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Post by Muttonbirds »

message #2527204 wrote:
Surely this is the most sought-after job in world rugby and one fit for only the finest applicants.
It has to be the easiest job in world rugby.
Are you saying New Zealand rugby players are superior to those from other countries?
Bayern
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Post by Bayern »

message #2527204 wrote:
Surely this is the most sought-after job in world rugby and one fit for only the finest applicants.
It has to be the easiest job in world rugby.
Those days are gone '204, whist Kiwi ballskill sets are top drawer a more tactically astute coach can negate that with ease, we saw that quite recently.... I'm guessing we are going to see it again
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Lemoentjie
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Post by Lemoentjie »

In an ideal world, Foster would be three tests into his tenure by now. Three tests - two against Wales and one against Scotland - that you assume would have provided him with a winning start to life in charge.
Sickening arrogance
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Post by Muttonbirds »

Bayern wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
Surely this is the most sought-after job in world rugby and one fit for only the finest applicants.
It has to be the easiest job in world rugby.
Those days are gone '204, whist Kiwi ballskill sets are top drawer a more tactically astute coach can negate that with ease, we saw that quite recently.... I'm guessing we are going to see it again
NZ has been playing for some weeks now. The NH is several phases away from beating Covid and playing seriously so I reckon NZ is going to thrash the UK teams for the next season or two at least.

We are waiting for you to catch up.
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eldanielfire
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Post by eldanielfire »

Ted. wrote:"Suspicion"????

It's proven beyond any doubt, Foster has done nothing. Nothing!
He hasn't even won the originally scheduled matches against Scotland and Wales yet FFS! :x
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Tehui
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Post by Tehui »

He has the amazing ability to talk without moving his lips. That's surely got to count for something.
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Post by CrazyIslander »

He's the wrong man but he's the right man.
He's shit but he's suppose to be, coz Gatland will takeover before RWC23. The worst case scenario if he succeeds in the meantime.
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Monkey Magic
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Post by Monkey Magic »

For goodness sake we've never lost to the scots and they couldn't even get out of their pool at the world cup, and he still hasn't chalked up a win?

Poor man's John Mitchell
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Post by jambanja »

CrazyIslander wrote:He's the wrong man but he's the right man.
He's shit but he's suppose to be, coz Gatland will takeover before RWC23. The worst case scenario if he succeeds in the meantime.
:lol: As a bok fan I hope so
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Post by MungoMan »

Tehui wrote:He has the amazing ability to talk without moving his lips. That's surely got to count for something.
It is a gift, true.

Then again, Spaka had the ability to move his lips without disturbing his synapses.
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eldanielfire
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Post by eldanielfire »

Tehui wrote:He has the amazing ability to talk without moving his lips. That's surely got to count for something.

Missing out in a career in ventriloquism.
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Ellafan
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Post by Ellafan »

Surely this is the most sought-after job in world rugby and one fit for only the finest applicants.
The hubris is strong in this one.

Image
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koroke hangareka
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Post by koroke hangareka »

It's not hubris when it's just the plain unadorned truth, lad.
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Post by Short Man Syndrome »

Lemoentjie wrote:
In an ideal world, Foster would be three tests into his tenure by now. Three tests - two against Wales and one against Scotland - that you assume would have provided him with a winning start to life in charge.
Sickening arrogance
Suck, Un. Ung.

There's no way this new and untested ABs side could have lived with the battle-hardened and fully operational Welsh side, who can feel rightly robbed of a first test series win in NZ this summer.

Curse you, Covid19, curse you to hell.
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Jerome Manning
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Post by Jerome Manning »

The weird thing is how it was all decided 2 (pius) years ago.
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Clogs
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Post by Clogs »

S'funny I thought this might be about some poor unfortunate South African that got sick from food poisoning in 1995.
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Post by Wilderbeast »

NZRU old men’s club at its worst. The most positive spin I can think of is that Foster was appointed with one eye firmly on a similar decision several years ago, with Deans coaching the seemingly invincible Crusaders and Henry coming unstuck in the RWC. Problem is, Robertson has every appearance of being better than Deans, and Foster ain’t got shit on pre 2007-RWC Henry.

Absolutely bizarre selection. One we all saw coming too. What does that say?
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Post by Couch »

Question is whether he survives before the world cup even starts.

The public are going to crucify him if he even begins to have a losing streak.
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Wilderbeast wrote:NZRU old men’s club at its worst. The most positive spin I can think of is that Foster was appointed with one eye firmly on a similar decision several years ago, with Deans coaching the seemingly invincible Crusaders and Henry coming unstuck in the RWC. Problem is, Robertson has every appearance of being better than Deans, and Foster ain’t got shit on pre 2007-RWC Henry.

Absolutely bizarre selection. One we all saw coming too. What does that say?
That it's a closed shop and you have to serve as assistant coach to have a sniff of becoming All Blacks coach.

Think about it. No one is going to have a better record at Super level as an AB head coach candidate than Scott Robertson. No one.

That means you have to already be in the inner circle. I suspect Brad Mooar, Greg Feek and John Plumtree now have a better chance of becoming head coach, because they are the assistant coaches.

Thus ensuring the continued supply of a pipeline of inferior coaches.

Fvcking crazy.
Dan54.
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Post by Dan54. »

Well personally, I didn't know if he was best or worst at interviews, but I have to admit we are here in late July, a couple of weeks away from the scheduled first Bledisloe Cup game and we haven't even had a squad named let alone assembled, I personally think it pretty poor, and showing no respect to our Australian friends.
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Post by jdogscoop »

.
Last edited by jdogscoop on Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dan54. wrote:Well personally, I didn't know if he was best or worst at interviews, but I have to admit we are here in late July, a couple of weeks away from the scheduled first Bledisloe Cup game and we haven't even had a squad named let alone assembled, I personally think it pretty poor, and showing no respect to our Australian friends.
Thanks for your input, Mark Robinson.
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eldanielfire
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Post by eldanielfire »

A lot of people point to Foster's record pre-All Blacks as evidence he sin't good enough. Is it not possible that since he worked under Hansen he has learnt a lot and those weaknesses he had as a coach have been filled in and the NZU are aware of that? Also Hansen who knows a lot about test rugby agrees? You know, just adding a bit of balance.
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Post by Wilderbeast »

jdogscoop wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:NZRU old men’s club at its worst. The most positive spin I can think of is that Foster was appointed with one eye firmly on a similar decision several years ago, with Deans coaching the seemingly invincible Crusaders and Henry coming unstuck in the RWC. Problem is, Robertson has every appearance of being better than Deans, and Foster ain’t got shit on pre 2007-RWC Henry.

Absolutely bizarre selection. One we all saw coming too. What does that say?
That it's a closed shop and you have to serve as assistant coach to have a sniff of becoming All Blacks coach.

Think about it. No one is going to have a better record at Super level as an AB head coach candidate than Scott Robertson. No one.

That means you have to already be in the inner circle. I suspect Brad Mooar, Greg Feek and John Plumtree now have a better chance of becoming head coach, because they are the assistant coaches.

Thus ensuring the continued supply of a pipeline of inferior coaches.

Fvcking crazy.
The only end is if someone fucks up diabolically. Not sure I’m willing to accept 1-2 years of terrible performance to break the cycle :(
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Post by Wilderbeast »

eldanielfire wrote:A lot of people point to Foster's record pre-All Blacks as evidence he sin't good enough. Is it not possible that since he worked under Hansen he has learnt a lot and those weaknesses he had as a coach have been filled in and the NZU are aware of that? Also Hansen who knows a lot about test rugby agrees? You know, just adding a bit of balance.
It’s possible. But it’s a tough sell considering the competition in Razor.
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Dan54. wrote:Well personally, I didn't know if he was best or worst at interviews, but I have to admit we are here in late July, a couple of weeks away from the scheduled first Bledisloe Cup game and we haven't even had a squad named let alone assembled, I personally think it pretty poor, and showing no respect to our Australian friends.
Mate, the games are against Australia :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I doubt that Scotland would worry about playing against Australia.
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Chilli wrote:
Dan54. wrote:Well personally, I didn't know if he was best or worst at interviews, but I have to admit we are here in late July, a couple of weeks away from the scheduled first Bledisloe Cup game and we haven't even had a squad named let alone assembled, I personally think it pretty poor, and showing no respect to our Australian friends.
Mate, the games are against Australia :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I doubt that Scotland would worry about playing against Australia.
Mate. That Aus team 11 months ago - even as shit as it was - inflicted the All Blacks' worst loss of all-time.

Of All Time.
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Post by Mr Mike »

kiap wrote:
Chilli wrote:
Dan54. wrote:Well personally, I didn't know if he was best or worst at interviews, but I have to admit we are here in late July, a couple of weeks away from the scheduled first Bledisloe Cup game and we haven't even had a squad named let alone assembled, I personally think it pretty poor, and showing no respect to our Australian friends.
Mate, the games are against Australia :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I doubt that Scotland would worry about playing against Australia.
Mate. That Aus team 11 months ago - even as shit as it was - inflicted the All Blacks' worst loss of all-time.

Of All Time.
Wild exaggeration.


Worst equal.
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kiap
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Mr Mike wrote:
kiap wrote:
Chilli wrote:
Dan54. wrote:Well personally, I didn't know if he was best or worst at interviews, but I have to admit we are here in late July, a couple of weeks away from the scheduled first Bledisloe Cup game and we haven't even had a squad named let alone assembled, I personally think it pretty poor, and showing no respect to our Australian friends.
Mate, the games are against Australia :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I doubt that Scotland would worry about playing against Australia.
Mate. That Aus team 11 months ago - even as shit as it was - inflicted the All Blacks' worst loss of all-time.

Of All Time.
Wild exaggeration.

Worst equal.
Running in 6 tries puts it over top over our Sydney win by a better Wallaby side 20 years earlier. But that's just me.

Anyway, at least we're willing to turn up against Fozzie's men.

I hear the Saffas are crying off.
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madman
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Post by madman »

is this now the record since ww2 that a New Zealand coach has not won a match?
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Mr Mike
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Post by Mr Mike »

kiap wrote:
Mr Mike wrote:
kiap wrote:Mate. That Aus team 11 months ago - even as shit as it was - inflicted the All Blacks' worst loss of all-time.

Of All Time.
Wild exaggeration.

Worst equal.
Running in 6 tries puts it over top over our Sydney win by a better Wallaby side 20 years earlier. But that's just me.

Anyway, at least we're willing to turn up against Fozzie's men.

I hear the Saffas are crying off.
They struggle against NZ and Australia if they can’t bring their own caterers, just look at their abysmal RWC record against those teams since the game went professional.

99 still felt like more of a genuine old school beating, especially after NZ so started well. 99 and Dunedin 2001 remain the best Australian Bledisloe performances for me.
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kiap
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Post by kiap »

Mr Mike wrote:
kiap wrote:
Mr Mike wrote:
kiap wrote:Mate. That Aus team 11 months ago - even as shit as it was - inflicted the All Blacks' worst loss of all-time.

Of All Time.
Wild exaggeration.

Worst equal.
Running in 6 tries puts it over top over our Sydney win by a better Wallaby side 20 years earlier. But that's just me.

Anyway, at least we're willing to turn up against Fozzie's men.

I hear the Saffas are crying off.
They struggle against NZ and Australia if they can’t bring their own caterers, just look at their abysmal RWC record against those teams since the game went professional.

99 still felt like more of a genuine old school beating, especially after NZ so started well. 99 and Dunedin 2001 remain the best Australian Bledisloe performances for me.
Fair points. In that case, let's hope Chilli can deliver some curry to make the Boks turn up in 2020. :nod:
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Mr Mike wrote:
kiap wrote:
Mr Mike wrote:
kiap wrote:Mate. That Aus team 11 months ago - even as shit as it was - inflicted the All Blacks' worst loss of all-time.

Of All Time.
Wild exaggeration.

Worst equal.
Running in 6 tries puts it over top over our Sydney win by a better Wallaby side 20 years earlier. But that's just me.

Anyway, at least we're willing to turn up against Fozzie's men.

I hear the Saffas are crying off.
They struggle against NZ and Australia if they can’t bring their own caterers, just look at their abysmal RWC record against those teams since the game went professional.

99 still felt like more of a genuine old school beating, especially after NZ so started well. 99 and Dunedin 2001 remain the best Australian Bledisloe performances for me.
Yes, of course the Australian wins against 15-man NZ sides should count for more. The Perth game wouldn't have blown out if Barrett hadn't been red carded.
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Wilderbeast wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:A lot of people point to Foster's record pre-All Blacks as evidence he sin't good enough. Is it not possible that since he worked under Hansen he has learnt a lot and those weaknesses he had as a coach have been filled in and the NZU are aware of that? Also Hansen who knows a lot about test rugby agrees? You know, just adding a bit of balance.
It’s possible. But it’s a tough sell considering the competition in Razor.
Indeed, and considering the meek exit at RWC - with the same attacking blueprint as that used against Ireland - Foster should have followed Hansen out the door. Not much evidence of coaching genius there.
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Post by eldanielfire »

jdogscoop wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:A lot of people point to Foster's record pre-All Blacks as evidence he sin't good enough. Is it not possible that since he worked under Hansen he has learnt a lot and those weaknesses he had as a coach have been filled in and the NZU are aware of that? Also Hansen who knows a lot about test rugby agrees? You know, just adding a bit of balance.
It’s possible. But it’s a tough sell considering the competition in Razor.
Indeed, and considering the meek exit at RWC - with the same attacking blueprint as that used against Ireland - Foster should have followed Hansen out the door. Not much evidence of coaching genius there.
No coach can guarantee great performances all of the time. No matter how good they are. And occasionally opponents raise their games to GOAT levels for one match or one tournament in a way no coach could ever repeat.

The world cup is hard to win, you need a great coach, a great team, everyone in good form and some in great form, the mental focus, opponents who won't tree and put in a GOAT performance and a fair bit of luck. Not all of those are factors coaches can 100% control.
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Post by Wilderbeast »

No one is saying Foster should not be picked solely on his RWC performance though. There is far more to it than that. NZers can accept coaches who lost the rwc (Henry). But Henry gave us two of our most dominant years ever in 05 and 06. Has foster done anything for us?
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