Your most embarrassing oversight of an international player

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Jim Lahey
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Your most embarrassing oversight of an international player

Post by Jim Lahey »

Conversely with the other thread, you thought this player was fairly average/shit and were scratching your head as to why your international coach continued to pick him. Turns out after a while the coach was right and you looked like a pillock.

Andrew Trimble for me. Thought he was overhyped from the start. Tits for hands, couldn’t kick, questionable decision making. Turned out to be one of Ulster and Ireland’s best backs this century.

Honourable mentions go to Rory Best, CJ Stander and big Dev.
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Conspicuous
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Conspicuous »

Jim Lahey wrote:Conversely with the other thread, you thought this player was fairly average/shit and were scratching your head as to why your international coach continued to pick him. Turns out after a while the coach was right and you looked like a pillock.

Andrew Trimble for me. Thought he was overhyped from the start. Tits for hands, couldn’t kick, questionable decision making. Turned out to be one of Ulster and Ireland’s best backs this century.

Honourable mentions go to Rory Best, CJ Stander and big Dev.
Tommy Bowe. Watching his early performances for Ireland in 2005-06 I never would have predicted that he’d go on to be our leading international try scorer, two time Lion and one of our greatest ever wingers
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Jim Lahey
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Jim Lahey »

Conspicuous wrote:
Jim Lahey wrote:Conversely with the other thread, you thought this player was fairly average/shit and were scratching your head as to why your international coach continued to pick him. Turns out after a while the coach was right and you looked like a pillock.

Andrew Trimble for me. Thought he was overhyped from the start. Tits for hands, couldn’t kick, questionable decision making. Turned out to be one of Ulster and Ireland’s best backs this century.

Honourable mentions go to Rory Best, CJ Stander and big Dev.
Tommy Bowe. Watching his early performances for Ireland in 2005-06 I never would have predicted that he’d go on to be our leading international try scorer, two time Lion and one of our greatest ever wingers
Had my own reservations on Tommy as well in the early days. Just looked like less rounded version of Shaggy. But he quickly proved me wrong, while it took me longer to warm to Trimble.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by eldanielfire »

Jonathan Davies. Early on I just thought he didn't have much. Say 2008-2009 ish. Now a consistently world class 13 for nearly a decade. A player who brings his A game to big matches as well.

Shane Williams. Always thought he was a decent but small attacker, but the general consistency of excellence he was under Gatland surprised me.

Josh Adams. Didn't think much of him. 2 years later I'm a convert, he's a wing genius. Much like Tommy Bowe, he's faster than he looks, has perfect execution of skills and just reads the game superbly.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Ali's Choice »

Sam Cane: I never liked him when he first burst onto the scene. Partly because he was a bench player for the Chiefs but seemed to have a guaranteed place in the AB match day 23. I just assumed he was Steve Hansen's personal cabana boy/private dancer. But I'll concede now that he is a decent, test standard flanker.
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UncleFB
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by UncleFB »

Ali's Choice wrote:Sam Cane: I never liked him when he first burst onto the scene. Partly because he was a bench player for the Chiefs but seemed to have a guaranteed place in the AB match day 23. I just assumed he was Steve Hansen's personal cabana boy/private dancer. But I'll concede now that he is a decent, test standard flanker.
When all along it was anyone named Barrett who was his personal cabana boy/private dancer,
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camroc1
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by camroc1 »

Blatant Earl call-out thread.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by eldanielfire »

UncleFB wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:Sam Cane: I never liked him when he first burst onto the scene. Partly because he was a bench player for the Chiefs but seemed to have a guaranteed place in the AB match day 23. I just assumed he was Steve Hansen's personal cabana boy/private dancer. But I'll concede now that he is a decent, test standard flanker.
When all along it was anyone named Barrett who was his personal cabana boy/private dancer,
:lol:
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Beaver_Shark »

Duane Vermeulen for me. I used to see a slow number 8 with limited skills early on in his career. I thought he'd never be more than a solid super rugby player.

Then out of the blue (for me at least), he was suddenly world class.
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boere wors
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by boere wors »

Beaver_Shark wrote:Duane Vermeulen for me. I used to see a slow number 8 with limited skills early on in his career. I thought he'd never be more than a solid super rugby player.

Then out of the blue (for me at least), he was suddenly world class.
Don't worry, you are in good company. Even Springbok coach Peter de Villiers didn't realize his class and kept selecting Pierre Spiess for years. :D
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Willie Falloon
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Willie Falloon »

camroc1 wrote:Blatant Earl call-out thread.
Conor Murray for you then
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JB1981
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by JB1981 »

On behalf of Josh Kronfeld who I assume doesn’t post here. This on a young Richie McCaw’s selection:
England-based Kronfeld said after the team were named that All Black jerseys were being handed out too easily.

"It seems incredible to me that they so easily can put No 7s in ... now they've got a guy off one NPC season," said Kronfeld, once regarded as the world's best openside flanker.
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booji boy
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by booji boy »

JB1981 wrote:On behalf of Josh Kronfeld who I assume doesn’t post here. This on a young Richie McCaw’s selection:
England-based Kronfeld said after the team were named that All Black jerseys were being handed out too easily.

"It seems incredible to me that they so easily can put No 7s in ... now they've got a guy off one NPC season," said Kronfeld, once regarded as the world's best openside flanker.
Tbf to Kronfeld he put in years of toil for Otago before he was picked for the AB's. His performance for Otago versus the 1993 Lions was superb but he still didn't make the AB's until 1995.
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Nolanator
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Nolanator »

Willie Falloon wrote:
camroc1 wrote:Blatant Earl call-out thread.
Conor Murray for you then
Thought about this earlier. Murray was absolutely not ready for international rugby when he was first brought through by Deccie. Whatever about the player he became after 2013, he should never have been starting in 2011.

Players who struggled at the start but ultimately came very good are a difficult one in terms of judging them. Thinking that they'd never come good is different to thinking they weren't good enough at that time.
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booji boy
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by booji boy »

Maa Nonu for me. From 2003-07 I thought he was just a one dimensional bosher who was greedy, lacked vision and creativity and tended to die with the ball or worse lose the ball in contact.

However from 2008-15 he established his combination with Conrad Smith and became truly world class and one of my favourite players. He is now talked about as potentially the greatest ever AB 12.

I think consistency of selection helped from 2008. From 2003-07 he chopped and changed from wing to centre to second five and shared the midfield duties with Tana Umaga, Aaron Mauger, Luke McAlistair etc. From 2008 he and Smith were consistently selected at 12/13 and his skills broadened immensely.
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earl the beaver
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by earl the beaver »

Nolanator wrote:
Willie Falloon wrote:
camroc1 wrote:Blatant Earl call-out thread.
Conor Murray for you then
Thought about this earlier. Murray was absolutely not ready for international rugby when he was first brought through by Deccie. Whatever about the player he became after 2013, he should never have been starting in 2011.

Players who struggled at the start but ultimately came very good are a difficult one in terms of judging them. Thinking that they'd never come good is different to thinking they weren't good enough at that time.
Cammy was still going on about him in 2017 FFS, by which stage he had been the best scrumhalf in Europe (and arguably at time the world) for 4 years.
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Willie Falloon
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Willie Falloon »

Nolanator wrote:
Willie Falloon wrote:
camroc1 wrote:Blatant Earl call-out thread.
Conor Murray for you then
Thought about this earlier. Murray was absolutely not ready for international rugby when he was first brought through by Deccie. Whatever about the player he became after 2013, he should never have been starting in 2011.

Players who struggled at the start but ultimately came very good are a difficult one in terms of judging them. Thinking that they'd never come good is different to thinking they weren't good enough at that time.
Murray was behind Reddan in 2011
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Nolanator »

Earl, yeah, fair enough. That was pain daft.

Willie, he was at times, but Murray started the biggest match that year.
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Jeff the Bear
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Jeff the Bear »

Aaron Wainwright for me. Thought he was a big lummox and that he was just filling a shirt until someone better came along/injured players got back...and notwithstanding that he's had a drop in form lately and is still at the beginning of his career, he has in in his time become a linchpin in a Grandslam, the longest winning run in Welsh history, and helped Wales to within a gnats chuff of a World Cup Final.
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by BlueThunder »

I thought Mils was flakey, error prone and not up to Super rugby standard. He turned out quite the opposite.
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by PornDog »

Nolanator wrote:
Willie Falloon wrote:
camroc1 wrote:Blatant Earl call-out thread.
Conor Murray for you then
Thought about this earlier. Murray was absolutely not ready for international rugby when he was first brought through by Deccie. Whatever about the player he became after 2013, he should never have been starting in 2011.
Ah he definitely should have been heavily involved in International rugby - my issues at the time were that he started every single game he was available for (including even the shitty non cap game against Fiji I think) from the '11 WC QF on, which he absolutely shouldn't have. For a whole host of reasons.

Surprised more people haven't admitted their misplaced Dev hate.
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Wilderbeast »

booji boy wrote:Maa Nonu for me. From 2003-07 I thought he was just a one dimensional bosher who was greedy, lacked vision and creativity and tended to die with the ball or worse lose the ball in contact.

However from 2008-15 he established his combination with Conrad Smith and became truly world class and one of my favourite players. He is now talked about as potentially the greatest ever AB 12.

I think consistency of selection helped from 2008. From 2003-07 he chopped and changed from wing to centre to second five and shared the midfield duties with Tana Umaga, Aaron Mauger, Luke McAlistair etc. From 2008 he and Smith were consistently selected at 12/13 and his skills broadened immensely.
Same, didn’t rate him coming into the centre’s at all.
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Grandpa
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Grandpa »

Wayne Barnes... when I first saw him in 2007...
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Grandpa
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Grandpa »

Ali's Choice wrote:Sam Cane: I never liked him when he first burst onto the scene. Partly because he was a bench player for the Chiefs but seemed to have a guaranteed place in the AB match day 23. I just assumed he was Steve Hansen's personal cabana boy/private dancer. But I'll concede now that he is a decent, test standard flanker.
To be fair.... the longer time goes on, the more I hope a decent number 7 comes along to put Cane out off his misery.... maybe it's the McCaw legacy blurring my glasses... but Sam just feels average to me... yes, I would have preferred him to Scott Barrett in the WC Semi... but I would have preferred any flanker rather than a lock in the biggest game in 4 years...

Sam Cane is a bit like Taine Randell was... you were sorta waiting for the "Ah ha..." moment... that never came...
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Grandpa
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Grandpa »

booji boy wrote:Maa Nonu for me. From 2003-07 I thought he was just a one dimensional bosher who was greedy, lacked vision and creativity and tended to die with the ball or worse lose the ball in contact.

However from 2008-15 he established his combination with Conrad Smith and became truly world class and one of my favourite players. He is now talked about as potentially the greatest ever AB 12.

I think consistency of selection helped from 2008. From 2003-07 he chopped and changed from wing to centre to second five and shared the midfield duties with Tana Umaga, Aaron Mauger, Luke McAlistair etc. From 2008 he and Smith were consistently selected at 12/13 and his skills broadened immensely.
I always thought Ma'a had something... a something I don't think Laumape will ever have (for those who compare the two). Nonu just needed time and guidance... and he repaid in gold.

But his partner Conrad... I kept thinking who is this slow, awkward looking centre... but then we had those ah ha moments... those running lines... sheer beauty....
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Wilderbeast »

I thought nonu was overrated and we were just desperate for the next Umaga. How wrong I was.
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booji boy
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by booji boy »

Grandpa wrote:
booji boy wrote:Maa Nonu for me. From 2003-07 I thought he was just a one dimensional bosher who was greedy, lacked vision and creativity and tended to die with the ball or worse lose the ball in contact.

However from 2008-15 he established his combination with Conrad Smith and became truly world class and one of my favourite players. He is now talked about as potentially the greatest ever AB 12.

I think consistency of selection helped from 2008. From 2003-07 he chopped and changed from wing to centre to second five and shared the midfield duties with Tana Umaga, Aaron Mauger, Luke McAlistair etc. From 2008 he and Smith were consistently selected at 12/13 and his skills broadened immensely.
I always thought Ma'a had something... a something I don't think Laumape will ever have (for those who compare the two). Nonu just needed time and guidance... and he repaid in gold.

But his partner Conrad... I kept thinking who is this slow, awkward looking centre... but then we had those ah ha moments... those running lines... sheer beauty....
:nod:

The first time I became aware of Conrad was when Henry picked him for the French test in 2004 with Umaga at 12. Seemed a strange selection at the time and I too thought 'who is this skinny, gangly white dude?". But friends who know a lot more about midfield play than me assured me "this guy is bloody good". And so it turned out to be.

Still didn't cement his spot and become the incumbent centre until 2008 though. Umaga was still the incumbent in 2005 and with the constant rotation during that 2005-07 period the midfield chopped and changed a lot. But in 2008 we no longer had the depth for constant rotation and maybe Henry had learned his lesson from the 2007 defeat.
Wilderbeast
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Wilderbeast »

Smith had Wellington/hurricanes playing Umaga at 12 from fairly early on if I recall?
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Ali's Choice »

Grandpa wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:Sam Cane: I never liked him when he first burst onto the scene. Partly because he was a bench player for the Chiefs but seemed to have a guaranteed place in the AB match day 23. I just assumed he was Steve Hansen's personal cabana boy/private dancer. But I'll concede now that he is a decent, test standard flanker.
To be fair.... the longer time goes on, the more I hope a decent number 7 comes along to put Cane out off his misery.... maybe it's the McCaw legacy blurring my glasses... but Sam just feels average to me... yes, I would have preferred him to Scott Barrett in the WC Semi... but I would have preferred any flanker rather than a lock in the biggest game in 4 years...

Sam Cane is a bit like Taine Randell was... you were sorta waiting for the "Ah ha..." moment... that never came...
I agree, it's like he's still being picked on his potential. Based on what the coaches think he might become in the years ahead. Yet he's played 70 tests,
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Shrekles
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Shrekles »

I am embarrassed to admit that I never thought much of Sam Whitelock until about 5 tests into his career. I will claim I was clouded by his relation to George and Adam however.
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by CrazyIslander »

booji boy wrote:Maa Nonu for me. From 2003-07 I thought he was just a one dimensional bosher who was greedy, lacked vision and creativity and tended to die with the ball or worse lose the ball in contact.

However from 2008-15 he established his combination with Conrad Smith and became truly world class and one of my favourite players. He is now talked about as potentially the greatest ever AB 12.

I think consistency of selection helped from 2008. From 2003-07 he chopped and changed from wing to centre to second five and shared the midfield duties with Tana Umaga, Aaron Mauger, Luke McAlistair etc. From 2008 he and Smith were consistently selected at 12/13 and his skills broadened immensely.
I'm the opposite I rated him as soon as he came on SR in '03. He faced off vs Seilala Mapusua as a battle between youngsters and smashed him. He played centre on his debut in the lost to England. I thought he did well and was astounded Mitchell didn't keep him there considering they only lost coz of Spencer's poor kicking. I was eventually proven right. You're underrating Nonu he's probably the best 12 ever. I'd say as good as Carter or McCaw.
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Shrekles
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Shrekles »

North? Unfortunate autocorrect?
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CrazyIslander
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by CrazyIslander »

Shrekles wrote:North? Unfortunate autocorrect?
Thanks champ
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Shrekles
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Shrekles »

I was about to ask if North had ever played 12 at all let alone how could he be considered one of the best ever...
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Jim Lahey
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Jim Lahey »

I see Nick Williams is retiring.

I think I speak for every Ulster fan by saying that we all thought he was going to be a useless big lump whenever he was announced. He didn’t come with a particularly good reputation from NZ, Munster or Italy. A proper head in hands, WTAF signing when we were screaming out for someone with work rate and grit in the back row at that time.
His first season was phenomenal. Seasons 2 and 3 he mixed the good with the bad, but the big man was excellent again in his final year.

All in all, we all got that one massively wrong.

Happy retirement Nick :thumbup:

Edit. Just realised he wasn’t an international so he doesn’t fit the criteria, but f**k it, still a legend.
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LandOTurk
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by LandOTurk »

A bunch of Welsh on this forum repeatedly said Liam Williams was not international standard. Practically none of them admit it now.
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Mog The Almighty
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Mog The Almighty »

I copped a lot of shit for saying Tupou was the best scrummager in Australia a while back. Of course it's situation normal for know-nothings to heap shit in this place and then fail to even have the dignity to wipe the egg off their face when it becomes obvious.
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Hobo Hooker »

Jim Lahey wrote:I see Nick Williams is retiring.

I think I speak for every Ulster fan by saying that we all thought he was going to be a useless big lump whenever he was announced. He didn’t come with a particularly good reputation from NZ, Munster or Italy. A proper head in hands, WTAF signing when we were screaming out for someone with work rate and grit in the back row at that time.
His first season was phenomenal. Seasons 2 and 3 he mixed the good with the bad, but the big man was excellent again in his final year.

All in all, we all got that one massively wrong.

Happy retirement Nick :thumbup:

Edit. Just realised he wasn’t an international so he doesn’t fit the criteria, but f**k it, still a legend.
yeah, he won a few games for us with his nodding head and unpredictable offloads :lol:
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Nolanator »

Fat Nick is a hero.
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Re: Your most embarrassing oversight of an international pla

Post by Flockwitt »

Dane Coles. I was thinking he was nothing more than a short term stop gap at hooker for the ABs till somebody better came along when he was first capped.

Maybe had never got the Dane Coles award out of the subconscious :lol:
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