How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coaches?

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Ali's Choice
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How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coaches?

Post by Ali's Choice »

He served his apprenticeship with Sumner in the CHCH metro comp, taking them from the 2nd division to a Premier division title.

He then guided Canterbury to three provincial titles. And has backed that up with four Super Rugby trophies in a row with the Crusaders. That is 7 titles in seven seasons as a professional head coach.

So where does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coaches?
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by MungoMan »

Ali's Choice wrote:He served his apprenticeship with Sumner in the CHCH metro comp, taking them from the 2nd division to a Premier division title.

He then guided Canterbury to three provincial titles. And has backed that up with four Super Rugby trophies in a row with the Crusaders. That is 7 titles in seven seasons as a professional head coach.

So where does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coaches?
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Muttonbirds »

He reminds me of Boris Johnson. A shaggy-haired clown, faking it for all he's worth behind a well structured club.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by JB1981 »

You have missed a title with the under 20s in there too. He is certainly the Midas of NZ coaches with an ability to turn teams he touches into gold. Right now he must be the most successful NZ coach to have never coached the ABs (at least in the professional era). Without time with the ABs though it’s hard to place him. I think most of us, other than the NZ Rugby board, would agree that wherever Scott Robertson sits in the Pantheon, it is considerably higher than Ian Foster.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by trapper »

Is he off contract at the end of this season? I’d imagine offers would be pouring in.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Ali's Choice »

trapper wrote:Is he off contract at the end of this season? I’d imagine offers would be pouring in.
Foster and NZR will be thrilled if he leaves NZ and heads offshore. His presence is a constant reminder of their lousy decision to appoint a dud as the All Black coach.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Wilderbeast »

Purely based on achievements, he’s no better than Robbie deans at super rugby level, and not in the conversation for international plaudits.

Amusingly, if the world ended today, Gatland ranks higher.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Ali's Choice »

Wilderbeast wrote:Purely based on achievements, he’s no better than Robbie deans at super rugby level, and not in the conversation for international plaudits.

Amusingly, if the world ended today, Gatland ranks higher.
Fair enough. Using your rationale Robertson ranks below anyone who has ever coached at test level, regardless of how poor their record was?
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Wilderbeast »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:Purely based on achievements, he’s no better than Robbie deans at super rugby level, and not in the conversation for international plaudits.

Amusingly, if the world ended today, Gatland ranks higher.
Fair enough. Using your rationale Robertson ranks below anyone who has ever coached at test level, regardless of how poor their record was?
No, he’s just not in the conversation. Robertson is one of the best coaches super rugby has ever seen but he needs to go international before we can truly compare him to some of our greats. Otherwise he simply don’t have the information we need to rank him.

At the moment, he might as well be Will Jordan. Super talented with a tonne of super rugby titles but untested internationally.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Peteray »

He must be a good coach, or he wouldn't get the results he has.

Foster's first faux pas was a huge one, appointing Cane so far out from any selection. Dumb, dumb, dumb, as he's made a rod for his own back. Good as Sam is, he is surely behind Savea, Hunt, Kirifi, Papaili and Boshier just now at 7.

Where does Robertson lie in the great scheme. The NZRFU has always had international experience as a key criteria, so Razor probably needs to go 'away' for a bit. In the public eye...Robertson, MacDonald, Brown, Joseph, Holland, Schmidt, Foster, Gatland... In the RFU ratings Foster, ummmmmmmmmm, ...................
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by JB1981 »

Wilderbeast wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:Purely based on achievements, he’s no better than Robbie deans at super rugby level, and not in the conversation for international plaudits.

Amusingly, if the world ended today, Gatland ranks higher.
Fair enough. Using your rationale Robertson ranks below anyone who has ever coached at test level, regardless of how poor their record was?
No, he’s just not in the conversation. Robertson is one of the best coaches super rugby has ever seen but he needs to go international before we can truly compare him to some of our greats. Otherwise he simply don’t have the information we need to rank him.

At the moment, he might as well be Will Jordan. Super talented with a tonne of super rugby titles but untested internationally.
That is a strict criteria but fair enough. If Will Jordan equates to Razor, do we need to start referring to Jordie Foster?
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by boere wors »

Does Robertson speak french? Him coaching France would be great...
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Auckman »

MungoMan wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:He served his apprenticeship with Sumner in the CHCH metro comp, taking them from the 2nd division to a Premier division title.

He then guided Canterbury to three provincial titles. And has backed that up with four Super Rugby trophies in a row with the Crusaders. That is 7 titles in seven seasons as a professional head coach.

So where does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coaches?
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by jdogscoop »

Comfortably the best coach in NZ.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by jdogscoop »

Wilderbeast wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:Purely based on achievements, he’s no better than Robbie deans at super rugby level, and not in the conversation for international plaudits.

Amusingly, if the world ended today, Gatland ranks higher.
Fair enough. Using your rationale Robertson ranks below anyone who has ever coached at test level, regardless of how poor their record was?
No, he’s just not in the conversation. Robertson is one of the best coaches super rugby has ever seen but he needs to go international before we can truly compare him to some of our greats. Otherwise he simply don’t have the information we need to rank him.

At the moment, he might as well be Will Jordan. Super talented with a tonne of super rugby titles but untested internationally.
Does anyone else have the sneaking suspicion that Wilderbeast is Mark Robinson?
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Wilderbeast »

Jordie has started to show the goods this year. Don’t tar his name with foster plz.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by JPNZ »

Muttonbirds wrote:He reminds me of Boris Johnson. A shaggy-haired clown, faking it for all he's worth behind a well structured club.
I’ve read it many times on this forum but would someone just re-re-ban this waste of oxygen already? I thought the CV thread and then the Melbourne Covid thread were bad. Now you try talking about rugby?

Dig yourself a hole
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by deverix »

This is how I would rank the NZ coaches (professional-era only) based on a combination of variables such as rugby intellect, astuteness, general success as coach and contribution to the game (not limited to NZ) overall..

It's very difficult to rank coaches against others considering different players, circumstances, teams coached, (obviously this is very subjective) but the title of the thread asks for this specifically, so..


1 - Wayne Smith

2 - Tony Brown

3 - Joe Schmidt

4 - Graham Henry

5 - Dave Rennie

6 - Robbie Deans

7 - Warren Gatland

8 - Vern Cotter

9 - John Plumtree

10 - Jamie Joseph


Currently, I would place Scott Robertson (4-5) between Dave Rennie and Graham Henry.

Like others have pointed out, it's very hard to judge until Robertson has coached internationally.

I suspect Razor will become very successful international coach, and finish his career potentially anywhere between (2-4).
Last edited by deverix on Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:23 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Wilderbeast »

Harsh on Henry and generous on Brown is my initial assessment of that list.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by JB1981 »

Wilderbeast wrote:Jordie has started to show the goods this year. Don’t tar his name with foster plz.
He has done well at Super level this year but I have heard on here that he’d need to do that at international level for us to judge him. Otherwise he’s just an arguably less talented Will Jordan with fewer titles ;-).
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Kiwias »

Wilderbeast wrote:Harsh on Henry and generous on Brown is my initial assessment of that list.
My take on Tony Brown is that he is a superb assistant coach, a bit like Wayne Smith, but does not rank in the top tier of professional coaches.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by deverix »

Wilderbeast wrote:Harsh on Henry and generous on Brown is my initial assessment of that list.
The key thing for me that separates Smith, Brown and Schmidt is tactical smarts/analytical factor/rugby nous - despite head coaching not their forte. They almost deserve a sub-category.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Tehui »

deverix wrote:This is how I would rank the NZ coaches (professional-era only)

1 - Wayne Smith

2 - Tony Brown

3 - Joe Schmidt

4 - Graham Henry

5 - Dave Rennie
Da fuq you been smoking?
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Peteray »

I currently see Tony Brown, as someone said, in that category with Wayne Smith. Better as part of the brainstrust, with significant tactical and skills input. As such while JJ drives Japan, it has always been Brown that has done for them exactly as Smith has done for the AB's for a long time. The schemers behind the throne. Robertson at the helm with, Schmidt, Brown, MacDonald, and Dermody would appear to be close to a 'Dream Team,' a couple of years down the track.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by trapper »

The top two on that list! Hahahaha
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Auckman »

JPNZ wrote:
Muttonbirds wrote:He reminds me of Boris Johnson. A shaggy-haired clown, faking it for all he's worth behind a well structured club.
I’ve read it many times on this forum but would someone just re-re-ban this waste of oxygen already? I thought the CV thread and then the Melbourne Covid thread were bad. Now you try talking about rugby?

Dig yourself a hole
nah he balances out all the right-wing loons on here. :nod:
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by jdogscoop »

JB1981 wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:Jordie has started to show the goods this year. Don’t tar his name with foster plz.
He has done well at Super level this year but I have heard on here that he’d need to do that at international level for us to judge him. Otherwise he’s just an arguably less talented Will Jordan with fewer titles ;-).
:lol: :thumbup:
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Wilderbeast »

JB1981 wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:Jordie has started to show the goods this year. Don’t tar his name with foster plz.
He has done well at Super level this year but I have heard on here that he’d need to do that at international level for us to judge him. Otherwise he’s just an arguably less talented Will Jordan with fewer titles ;-).
I agree, JB should be discussed in the same sentence as Jordan :nod:

Not Foster.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Glaston »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:Purely based on achievements, he’s no better than Robbie deans at super rugby level, and not in the conversation for international plaudits.

Amusingly, if the world ended today, Gatland ranks higher.
Fair enough. Using your rationale Robertson ranks below anyone who has ever coached at test level, regardless of how poor their record was?

Pretty much any one can drive fast if they have a Ferrari, put them in a Robin Reliant and see how they go.





















He should try coaching in Wales.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by True Blue »

I'd take him over Foster any day of the week.

He does have a very robust setup helping him though. Canterbury/Crusaders more than any other organization adapted best to the professional era.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Couch »

Great coach, he seems a real people person, an all round good bloke.

I'd rather him coach the All Blacks than the incumbent, but I think he needs international experience first to test the waters, Jamie Joseph is the most qualified to coach the All Blacks imo
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Wilderbeast »

Gatland is the most qualified to coach the all blacks. Qualifications aren’t everything. I’d rather take a punt on Robertson than risk losing him overseas. Who’s to say he would come back when the NZRU finally accepted him? How many overseas NZ coaches applied last year?
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Dan54. »

Wilderbeast wrote:Gatland is the most qualified to coach the all blacks. Qualifications aren’t everything. I’d rather take a punt on Robertson than risk losing him overseas. Who’s to say he would come back when the NZRU finally accepted him? How many overseas NZ coaches applied last year?
Actually hard to ever work out, I think NZ is one of the few places that people apply to coach ABs generally, most countries seem to just pick who they want and appoint them. Rennie was approached by Aussie, Gats has never applied for coaching job (he says) Eddie Jones didn't apply to do England did he.

but as for the thread, you would have to say Razor rates really high as a coach, I mean he seems at least as good as anyone around at moment that I can see. Anyone can say what's he like with a lesser team, but who's to say he not the reason Crusaders are so good, he certainly must be a huge part of it.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by booji boy »

Razor Robertson must rate up there with the very best NZ coaches and the only thing remaining is for him to prove he can be successful at international level. But he can't prove that until he is given the opportunity. The NZRFU decision to appoint Foster has to be the worst head coach selection since John Mitchell.

This idea that All Black coaches have to have international experience is ridiculous and only developed because Henry went away and coached Wales way back in 1998. At the time he thought John Hart had a lock on the AB coaches role and he wouldn't get a look in for many years. So he took up another international coaching opportunity. Hansen's only international experience was being left carrying the can in Wales when Henry abruptly left and Foster only has experience as an assistant to Hansen.

I liken Razor to Rassie Erasmus who in 18 months was able to turn around South Africa's fortunes and win the RWC. Fresh young coach with fresh tactics and fresh ideas. NZ should have appointed proven winner Robertson to lead the NZ game into the future. Instead they appointed proven loser Foster. :thumbdown:
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Wilderbeast »

I think it’s nothing more than an artificial barrier so the nzru can continue to pick their favourites.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by HouseOfPane »

The best in NZ IMO. You can't win four titles in a row and not be very good. Coaches are similar to players - if they do well, then there has to be an opportunity to reach the next level. The question is, what does he want to do? Obviously covid has had a massive impact, but does he just continue to plug away at the crusaders and wait for his opportunity? Or does he go abroad? Interesting times.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Jeff the Bear »

Wasn't Deans equally fêted until he went abroad and bombed. Surely Robertson would have to go outside of NZ to 'prove' himself.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by Wilderbeast »

Jeff the Bear wrote:Wasn't Deans equally fêted until he went abroad and bombed. Surely Robertson would have to go outside of NZ to 'prove' himself.
Yes, though deans applied against Henry. Henry is a shitload better than Foster. That said, you’ve hit my single reservation about Robertson but as I said earlier, I’d still take a punt on him.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Best Super Rugby coach going.
Probably one of the best coaches in world rugby.
Clearly has intention to coach NZ, hopefully he gets his opportunity.
Unsure if any intention to coach elsewhere but there must be offers he’s so good.

Whether he has to coach elsewhere he’d no doubt be even better for the experience.

All that said hard to trust someone with a combover.
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Re: How does Scott Robertson rate in the pantheon of NZ coac

Post by HouseOfPane »

I think the key is just 'opportunity'.

The age-old arguments over good coaches v good setups doesn't really matter if the right combination of the two is found. I believe Robbie Deans would be viewed much differently today, if he got that All Blacks job, but unfortunately for him, he was up a against a very good coach in Sir Ted. All you can do as a player/coach/etc. is do your job well enough to get to that next level, and I think Robertson has done that.

I don't think that he has to go abroad to 'prove' himself, but he might want to take up that challenge.
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