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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:14 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
It might be. However we might have to start by reducing the number of groupings who some believe are a race. Muslims for example.


Am I compelled to start there? Couldn't I start with "white" instead?

Start where you like. Will you be finished by lunchtime?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:15 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Give Michael Johnson a call:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvan ... eview.html

One of the great tragedies of our age is that an entire generation has been brainwashed into not noticing what is right in front of their eyes. It's been a mighty trick, one that to me is incomprehensible, but there you go, and we have our very own representative on this bored.


I've genuinely had flat earthers say basically the same thing to me as far as "brainwashed into not noticing what is right in front of their eyes" goes


I've never met a flt earther. But on a clear day with binoculars you can see the masts of shops over the horizon before their bulk. Or the tips of mountains and not their base. Or the curvature of the earth from a tall mountain.

So they'd have to be reaching to deny the evidence of their eyes. However, stick a six year old child in a room with a Somalian, an Icelander, and a Korean, and ask them if they notice anything, and they will.


Stick a six year old child in a room with a Ghanaian, a Kenyan and a Swaziland native and they will notice something. But it could very well be the wrong thing.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:16 pm 
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Farva wrote:
Is it kind of arguing semantics here.
Whether the bloke was being a racist or a bigot (he told Datsiyari to go back to Uran so he was definitely being racist there) is kind of beyond the point. He was being a wanker and should be called on it. Thankfully he has been.

Saying Muslims arent a race so he wasnt racist is a plain and sime deflecrion of what is going on.


This


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:18 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
No, you're playing silly games conflating two entirely different things.


You've got me and bimboman confused


I haven't. You've argued this before, and so have a few others. I've read a few books arguing the non-existence of 'race' or whatever you want to call it, and indeed, even the UN have declared that it doesn't exist. It is the very definition of stupidity, and most anthropoligical schools should be immediately closed down.


Something something slabs of sweeping generalisations slamming down on my head or some bullshit.

And yeah, "Africa is a continent not a unified area which can be used to predict biological traits" is my point, raised in response to bimbo's attempt to paint my position as ridiculous because of Sickle Cell Disease. You are making my point for me


Last edited by Chuckles1188 on Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:20 pm 
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Isn't Africa the most genetically diverse continent?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:21 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
Which suggests that appealing to science when trying to understand human behaviour is a fool's errand.

So.

Let's ask again - why is "Muslim" not a race?



Because however everybody and everything else in the world chooses to define race bar you and that mental American women who decided she was "black" race has little or not element of choice attached to it, whether it is used as a biological reference word or geographical and cultural.

Muslim is a choice of belief and cannot be construed as anything else except by wilful stupidity.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:23 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
No, you're playing silly games conflating two entirely different things.


You've got me and bimboman confused


I haven't. You've argued this before, and so have a few others. I've read a few books arguing the non-existence of 'race' or whatever you want to call it, and indeed, even the UN have declared that it doesn't exist. It is the very definition of stupidity, and most anthropoligical schools should be immediately closed down.


Something something slabs of sweeping generalisations slamming down on my head or some bullshit.

And yeah, "Africa is a continent not a unified area which can be used to predict biological traits" is my point, raised in response to bimbo's attempt to paint my position as ridiculous because of Sickle Cell Disease. You are making my point for me



You knew what I meant by African when I used it, to fall back on pedantry of not using "sub Saharan" in my analogy is amazing consider you've unilaterally decided the term "race" is up to the user to define.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:23 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Which suggests that appealing to science when trying to understand human behaviour is a fool's errand.

So.

Let's ask again - why is "Muslim" not a race?



Because however everybody and everything else in the world chooses to define race bar you and that mental American women who decided she was "black" race has little or not element of choice attached to it, whether it is used as a biological reference word or geographical and cultural.

Muslim is a choice of belief and cannot be construed as anything else except by wilful stupidity.


Rachel Dolezal was doing a fantastic job of demonstrating that there are a number of elements of race which are a choice until her parents weighed in, at which point the large number of people like you who think race is not a choice decided she was lying.

Seneca: Richard Spencer for one


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:24 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
No, you're playing silly games conflating two entirely different things.


You've got me and bimboman confused


I haven't. You've argued this before, and so have a few others. I've read a few books arguing the non-existence of 'race' or whatever you want to call it, and indeed, even the UN have declared that it doesn't exist. It is the very definition of stupidity, and most anthropoligical schools should be immediately closed down.


Something something slabs of sweeping generalisations slamming down on my head or some bullshit.

And yeah, "Africa is a continent not a unified area which can be used to predict biological traits" is my point, raised in response to bimbo's attempt to paint my position as ridiculous because of Sickle Cell Disease. You are making my point for me



You knew what I meant by African when I used it, to fall back on pedantry of not using "sub Saharan" in my analogy is amazing consider you've unilaterally decided the term "race" is up to the user to define.


No, bimbo, I honestly didn't know what you meant. And I'm genuinely curious to know whether you actually knew what you meant well enough to describe it. "Sub-Saharan" isn't a particularly meaningful scientific distinction either.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
Farva wrote:
Is it kind of arguing semantics here.
Whether the bloke was being a racist or a bigot (he told Datsiyari to go back to Uran so he was definitely being racist there) is kind of beyond the point. He was being a wanker and should be called on it. Thankfully he has been.

Saying Muslims arent a race so he wasnt racist is a plain and sime deflecrion of what is going on.


This



Sorry , you are claiming Muslim is a race and totally disagree with Farva, but as you were.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:26 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Farva wrote:
Is it kind of arguing semantics here.
Whether the bloke was being a racist or a bigot (he told Datsiyari to go back to Uran so he was definitely being racist there) is kind of beyond the point. He was being a wanker and should be called on it. Thankfully he has been.

Saying Muslims arent a race so he wasnt racist is a plain and sime deflecrion of what is going on.


This



Sorry , you are claiming Muslim is a race and totally disagree with Farva, but as you were.


I'm agreeing with him entirely. The question of whether the man was being treated in a bigoted and unacceptable fashion of the kind which we generally describe as "racism" does not hinge on whether being Muslim or a member of a "race" is a choice


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:28 pm 
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Until people start using "religionist" to mean prejudiced against adherents of a religious faith, the reality is that "racist" is really the only word we have to describe the concept


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:31 pm 
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Quote:
No, bimbo, I honestly didn't know what you meant. And I'm genuinely curious to know whether you actually knew what you meant well enough to describe it. "Sub-Saharan" isn't a particularly meaningful scientific distinction either.



It can affect people from Arabia as well. But it's prevelance is a large block of Africa. Any ways you've reduced any argument about Muslim being a race (for which you've actually made no argument for really other than to redefine any common use of the word race) to a generisation about sickle cell illness.

You're not genuinly curious at all.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:31 pm 
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Quote:
No, bimbo, I honestly didn't know what you meant. And I'm genuinely curious to know whether you actually knew what you meant well enough to describe it. "Sub-Saharan" isn't a particularly meaningful scientific distinction either.



It can affect people from Arabia as well. But it's prevelance is a large block of Africa. Any ways you've reduced any argument about Muslim being a race (for which you've actually made no argument for really other than to redefine any common use of the word race) to a generisation about sickle cell illness.

You're not genuinly curious at all.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:33 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Farva wrote:
Is it kind of arguing semantics here.
Whether the bloke was being a racist or a bigot (he told Datsiyari to go back to Uran so he was definitely being racist there) is kind of beyond the point. He was being a wanker and should be called on it. Thankfully he has been.

Saying Muslims arent a race so he wasnt racist is a plain and sime deflecrion of what is going on.


This



Sorry , you are claiming Muslim is a race and totally disagree with Farva, but as you were.


I'm agreeing with him entirely. The question of whether the man was being treated in a bigoted and unacceptable fashion of the kind which we generally describe as "racism" does not hinge on whether being Muslim or a member of a "race" is a choice



No you asked why Muslim isn't a race, if your point was racism is an acceptable word for general bigotry that would have been the point you made.

You didn't you asked and argued about whether Muslim was a race.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:34 pm 
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Given 'race' has no scientific meaning and is a social construct I'm plumping for Kiwi expat for the answer and any twat who wants to argue otherwise is just trying to oppress me.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Which suggests that appealing to science when trying to understand human behaviour is a fool's errand.

So.

Let's ask again - why is "Muslim" not a race?



Because however everybody and everything else in the world chooses to define race bar you and that mental American women who decided she was "black" race has little or not element of choice attached to it, whether it is used as a biological reference word or geographical and cultural.

Muslim is a choice of belief and cannot be construed as anything else except by wilful stupidity.


Rachel Dolezal was doing a fantastic job of demonstrating that there are a number of elements of race which are a choice until her parents weighed in, at which point the large number of people like you who think race is not a choice decided she was lying.

Seneca: Richard Spencer for one



Don't state what I do or don't believe . You don't know what I believe. Anything I've said here has been about common acceptability of word use and choices of description. If you think someone's colour and appearance is a choice that person has made then I've a spiritual church for you to attend.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:41 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Until people start using "religionist" to mean prejudiced against adherents of a religious faith, the reality is that "racist" is really the only word we have to describe the concept


Islamophobe seems to work pretty well for those who wish to rant about that stuff.

Anti-Dentite for those prejudiced against Dentists.



On this basis the writer and producers of the "book of Mormon" should be sent to prison.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:52 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Until people start using "religionist" to mean prejudiced against adherents of a religious faith, the reality is that "racist" is really the only word we have to describe the concept


Islamophobe seems to work pretty well for those who wish to rant about that stuff.

Anti-Dentite for those prejudiced against Dentists.



On this basis the writer and producers of the "book of Mormon" should be sent to prison.


The Mormons handled that with remarkable good humour.


Yes, they really took the message that Mormonism ultimately helped make them better people on the chin


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:06 pm 
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I don't give a f uck what the Mormons thought , I'm offended on their behalf and they should be patronised and protected.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:11 pm 
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So is racism now to be considered to be on a scale of seriouness depending on the group that are being "sinned" against?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:16 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Sefton wrote:
Given 'race' has no scientific meaning and is a social construct I'm plumping for Kiwi expat for the answer and any twat who wants to argue otherwise is just trying to oppress me.


Another one of your highly useful interventions. Thanks for your input.

It's got as much use as the shite that is getting spouted all over this thread.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:18 pm 
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Mick Mannock wrote:
So is racism now to be considered to be on a scale of seriouness depending on the group that are being "sinned" against?


context innit.

Being mzungu in east africa you experience loads of "racism" but as you are comparatively rich and powerful it's like water off a ducks back.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:24 pm 
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Mick Mannock wrote:
So is racism now to be considered to be on a scale of seriouness depending on the group that are being "sinned" against?



It appears so, though of course we have come up with a name for these groupings especially as "race" has now been banned from usage.

Do you think we should seprate off "beliefs" from real groups , obviously some don't. It's very complex.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:37 pm 
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Maybe I need an Albanian drug dealing, philosophical dwarf on a bar stool to give it the authenticity that your posts are famed for.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:37 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
ukjim wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
So is racism now to be considered to be on a scale of seriouness depending on the group that are being "sinned" against?


context innit.

Being mzungu in east africa you experience loads of "racism" but as you are comparatively rich and powerful it's like water off a ducks back.


Are you mzungu?


Aren't we all a little bit mzungu now and then.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:38 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
So is racism now to be considered to be on a scale of seriouness depending on the group that are being "sinned" against?



It appears so, though of course we have come up with a name for these groupings especially as "race" has now been banned from usage.

Do you think we should seprate off "beliefs" from real groups , obviously some don't. It's very complex.

We can only take someones declared beliefs on trust


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Sefton wrote:
Maybe I need an Albanian drug dealing, philosophical dwarf on a bar stool to give it the authenticity that your posts are famed for.


SamShark could dress up for you?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:41 pm 
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ScarfaceClaw wrote:
Sefton wrote:
Maybe I need an Albanian drug dealing, philosophical dwarf on a bar stool to give it the authenticity that your posts are famed for.


SamShark could dress up for you?

I'll leave it to Houts, he seems to get under Sneaker's skin.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:44 pm 
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tbf, quibbling about whether racist is the right word to describe the dickheadery of the guys in the video shouldn't really be the headline.

Those guys were dickheads, and whether it was racist, bigoted, prejudiced, or whatever else, it doesn't really matter. It shouldn't be acceptable behaviour.
Arguing about whether "muslim isn't a race" won't make their behaviour any more acceptable even if it's decided that you can't use racism to describe Islamophobia, Iranian-hate, or calling non-white people monkey and telling them to go back where they came from.

Call it flurovestwearingcocksuckery for all I care at this stage, they're wankers.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Quote:
or calling non-white people monkey



Comparing white people to animals is acceptable then ? Is there a scale of loud where these comparisons are acceptable ?


Last edited by bimboman on Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
tbf, quibbling about whether racist is the right word to describe the dickheadery of the guys in the video shouldn't really be the headline.

Those guys were dickheads, and whether it was racist, bigoted, prejudiced, or whatever else, it doesn't really matter. It shouldn't be acceptable behaviour.
Arguing about whether "muslim isn't a race" won't make their behaviour any more acceptable even if it's decided that you can't use racism to describe Islamophobia, Iranian-hate, or calling non-white people monkey and telling them to go back where they came from.

Call it flurovestwearingcocksuckery for all I care at this stage, they're wankers.


I don't see anyone arguing against that. In the finest traditions of PR, we have decided to argue about something else, however.


err... I wasn't saying that anyone WAS saying that, just that this is what was getting lost in the semantic quibbling going on.

You've reached the point where you're seeing an argument in every post - maybe it's time for a wee lie down.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:49 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Quote:
or calling non-white people monkey



Comparing white people to animals is acceptable then ?


No... that was the point. :?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:51 pm 
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Sefton wrote:
ScarfaceClaw wrote:
Sefton wrote:
Maybe I need an Albanian drug dealing, philosophical dwarf on a bar stool to give it the authenticity that your posts are famed for.


SamShark could dress up for you?

I'll leave it to Houts, he seems to get under Sneaker's skin.


Like Buffalo Bill? It rubs the lotion on its skin etc.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:52 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
or calling non-white people monkey



Comparing white people to animals is acceptable then ?


No... that was the point. :?



Oh right, that's not of course what you typed but as everything is so fluid I'll accept you meant white as well as non white people.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:53 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
tbf, quibbling about whether racist is the right word to describe the dickheadery of the guys in the video shouldn't really be the headline.

Those guys were dickheads, and whether it was racist, bigoted, prejudiced, or whatever else, it doesn't really matter. It shouldn't be acceptable behaviour.
Arguing about whether "muslim isn't a race" won't make their behaviour any more acceptable even if it's decided that you can't use racism to describe Islamophobia, Iranian-hate, or calling non-white people monkey and telling them to go back where they came from.

Call it flurovestwearingcocksuckery for all I care at this stage, they're wankers.


I don't see anyone arguing against that. In the finest traditions of PR, we have decided to argue about something else, however.


err... I wasn't saying that anyone WAS saying that, just that this is what was getting lost in the semantic quibbling going on.

You've reached the point where you're seeing an argument in every post - maybe it's time for a wee lie down.


Um, I wasn't making an argument at all. Projecting much?


Probably :D

Might have read a bit much into your opening sentence, where you said you don't see anyone arguing against that.

You realize we are now arguing about not arguing about stuff? Gawd help us both.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:53 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
or calling non-white people monkey



Comparing white people to animals is acceptable then ?


No... that was the point. :?



Oh right, that's not of course what you typed but as everything is so fluid I'll accept you meant white as well as non white people.


I can only write stuff for you, I can't comprehend them for you.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:56 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Isn't Africa the most genetically diverse continent?


Yes, but a lot of people like bimbo still think phenotyic difference correrates highly with genetic differences.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:03 pm 
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Calculus wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Isn't Africa the most genetically diverse continent?


Yes, but a lot of people like bimbo still think phenotyic difference correrates highly with genetic differences.



No I don't, and nothing I've said demonstrates such a belief. I tend to think of these disgraceful accusations of my thinking as deflection from the accusers beliefs and thoughts.

Lots of disgraceful people use a tactic like this as it covers their own behaviours and guilt.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:11 pm 
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I'm not sure what is being suggested but I'm quite confident that Bimbo has never displayed any bigoted or racist attitude on this forum and holds no such views personally.


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