**OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

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Chips
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Chips »

ovalball wrote:
I remain, utterly unconvinced about Eddie. We've made zero progress in the last 18 months and there's precious few signs that he is acknowledging/tackling the real problems in the team.

I am coming around to the same POV. Loads in the southern hemisphere press that the ARU want Jones back after the RWC - regardless of his contract extension with England. Might not be a bad offer to take up - I can't see any decent coach worth his salt wanting a 2-year hand-over period sat next to Jones anyway.
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Raggs
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Raggs »

DragsterDriver wrote:That’s a stubborn back row selection, I guess he’s given them some faith and a lifeline.

Glad he didn’t throw ford under the bus- massive dropping brown though, for all his critics it’s still a big one.
Wonder if Eddie has decided that the 6N is basically gone, and is now trying to move a few small things forwards.
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Joost
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Joost »

Raggs wrote:I'll be doing ruck marks for this one. Different challenge to Scotland I suspect, but still hopefully informative.
Yeah, expecting a lot more counter-rucking and choke tackles than the jackaling against Scotland. In that context, I’d say retaining 3 locks makes sense. Guess we’ll also be looking to kick for territory and disrupt the French lineout.

Should be plenty of impact from the forwards bench!
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happyhooker
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by happyhooker »

But despite playing 3 locks we don't seem to challenge opposition line-outs that much.
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Petros
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Petros »

certainly not what we expected
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Raggs
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Raggs »

happyhooker wrote:But despite playing 3 locks we don't seem to challenge opposition line-outs that much.
I think we've contested a bit more than we did last year, but would agree that we don't seem to be going after every one as you'd expect.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by tc27 »

Personally im happy with the side - would like to think Underhill would have started if available.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

happyhooker wrote:But despite playing 3 locks we don't seem to challenge opposition line-outs that much.
Indeed!

I’m a little excited about Cowan dickie getting a run out anyway, especially if Simmonds is on and the game opens up.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by blindcider »

Chips wrote:It's seems ironic that Brown gets dropped when heavy rain on a bog pitch are predicted, but let's hope Watson has a good game and then Brown's exclusion becomes permanent.

Everything is a horses for courses selection - France have a huge pack and an even bigger centre. Ypres 2018.
Still reckon Watson is wasted at Fullback. We do need options at 15 but I can't see Watson as the permanent answer. I think I would have preferred Daly to come in at 15 tbh (although I'm not convinced he is the answer there either).
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Chips
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Chips »

blindcider wrote:
Chips wrote:It's seems ironic that Brown gets dropped when heavy rain on a bog pitch are predicted, but let's hope Watson has a good game and then Brown's exclusion becomes permanent.

Everything is a horses for courses selection - France have a huge pack and an even bigger centre. Ypres 2018.
Still reckon Watson is wasted at Fullback. We do need options at 15 but I can't see Watson as the permanent answer. I think I would have preferred Daly to come in at 15 tbh (although I'm not convinced he is the answer there either).


[Rumsfeld]As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know like Brown is shite and getting worse. We also know there are known unknowns such as Daly, could he be a great fullback; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. [/Rumsfeld]


The answer might well not be Watson or Daly - but we know already that Brown is not the right option.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ovalball »

Petros wrote:certainly not what we expected
Only the Watson for Brown selection - everything else is predictable - it was only the media suggesting that Ford would be dropped - that back row x(
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by SamShark »

Hopefully the weather isn't awful - it's not guaranteed full on rain (sun around too in the afternoon), but likely to be wet.

I was expecting the Hask to come in but regardless I'm fine with the team.

If we win we'll move on from there - a loss and calls for a wider rethink will grow louder.

Some good "finishers" on the bench with Cowan Dickie, Sinckler, Simmonds and Joseph all very mobile.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ovalball »

Chips wrote:
blindcider wrote:
Chips wrote:It's seems ironic that Brown gets dropped when heavy rain on a bog pitch are predicted, but let's hope Watson has a good game and then Brown's exclusion becomes permanent.

Everything is a horses for courses selection - France have a huge pack and an even bigger centre. Ypres 2018.
Still reckon Watson is wasted at Fullback. We do need options at 15 but I can't see Watson as the permanent answer. I think I would have preferred Daly to come in at 15 tbh (although I'm not convinced he is the answer there either).


[Rumsfeld]As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know like Brown is shite and getting worse. We also know there are known unknowns such as Daly, could he be a great fullback; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. [/Rumsfeld]


The answer might well not be Watson or Daly - but we know already that Brown is not the right option.

I think it would be fair to say that Watson is likely to be better than Brown would be - if he's given the shirt, full time, between now and the RWC. Watson will improve, Brown will only get worse (as will the likes of Cole and Hartley).
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45jumper
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by 45jumper »

Strange call to drop Brown given the likely conditions. Looking forward to seeing that back three if they get good ball though :thumbup:
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SamShark
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by SamShark »

45jumper wrote:Strange call to drop Brown given the likely conditions. Looking forward to seeing that back three if they get good ball though :thumbup:

Indeed - Watson's last 15 showing in that insane game versus Australia (was it?) wasn't the best yardstick.
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blindcider
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by blindcider »

SamShark wrote:
45jumper wrote:Strange call to drop Brown given the likely conditions. Looking forward to seeing that back three if they get good ball though :thumbup:

Indeed - Watson's last 15 showing in that insane game versus Australia (was it?) wasn't the best yardstick.
He's also been ropey when pushed there as a replacement
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by matta25 »

How many tackles will Farrell miss on Bastareaud :(( ? Tough call to drop Joseph, as ever.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

If he’s trained at 15 this week he may be more settled? Wonder how brown will cope as a dirtracker, he’s reputed to be a bit of an arsehole.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by eldanielfire »

matta25 wrote:How many tackles will Farrell miss on Bastareaud :(( ? Tough call to drop Joseph, as ever.
JJ was tough. I'd be tempted to see how a half with |Ford at 10 and a half with Farrell at 10 will go. The big problem is the backrow though. A lock at 6 and a 6 at 7 is not a successful backrow. Eddie himself knows Robshaw is not a 7. He's said it, so where is this evidence come form he should play at 7? It's bonkers.
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Chips
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Chips »

eldanielfire wrote:
matta25 wrote:How many tackles will Farrell miss on Bastareaud :(( ? Tough call to drop Joseph, as ever.
JJ was tough. I'd be tempted to see how a half with |Ford at 10 and a half with Farrell at 10 will go. The big problem is the backrow though. A lock at 6 and a 6 at 7 is not a successful backrow. Eddie himself knows Robshaw is not a 7. He's said it, so where is this evidence come form he should play at 7? It's bonkers.



Jones has backed himself into a corner unnecessarily. He's not been picking players in form, or, more infuriatingly, he's ignoring experience gained from the Argentina tour like Wilson and Armand completely and wasted 3 or 4 England sessions looking at Gary Graham.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by matta25 »

LCD's been training with the squad all 6N right? It's not another scrum half thing where Eddie thinks he only needs two hookers?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

matta25 wrote:LCD's been training with the squad all 6N right? It's not another scrum half thing where Eddie thinks he only needs two hookers?
Brought him in this week I believe.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by eldanielfire »

Chips wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
matta25 wrote:How many tackles will Farrell miss on Bastareaud :(( ? Tough call to drop Joseph, as ever.
JJ was tough. I'd be tempted to see how a half with |Ford at 10 and a half with Farrell at 10 will go. The big problem is the backrow though. A lock at 6 and a 6 at 7 is not a successful backrow. Eddie himself knows Robshaw is not a 7. He's said it, so where is this evidence come form he should play at 7? It's bonkers.



Jones has backed himself into a corner unnecessarily. He's not been picking players in form, or, more infuriatingly, he's ignoring experience gained from the Argentina tour like Wilson and Armand completely and wasd 3 or 4 England sessions looking at Gary Graham.
Gary Graham is actually a good 7 though, a bit if a beast at the breakdown. Worth a look.

The issue is Eddie Jones this past half year is he has turned into a voyeur. He likes to look at new England players but he doesn't like adding them into the team.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Keith »

JJ rightfully dropped, he's been worse than shit, but whay the fuck have we picked that fucking back row again? It's the most obvious area of weakness and he's picked it time and again :x
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by JM2K6 »

DragsterDriver wrote:If he’s trained at 15 this week he may be more settled? Wonder how brown will cope as a dirtracker, he’s reputed to be a bit of an arsehole.
Is he? His reputation appears to be that he's a lovely and chilled out guy when he's not playing a game of rugby.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by geordie_6 »

With the backrow, and aside from issues around loyalty, I can only think he is expecting a different challenge at the breakdown than Scotland so believes this backrow can manage.

Hughes might also be better this week having had the extra match fitness boost.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by openclashXX »

Eddie has officially crossed over into the bizarro selection world of being a proper England coach

Team gets smashed at the breakdown and loses? Make changes... at wing and fullback :?

"Oh the breakdown isn't a one-man job, everybody in the team is responsible" :yawn:

Perhaps England should just abolish back row players altogether and pick whoever they want there - get Sinckler and Cowan-Dickie on the flanks and Joseph at Number 8

After all the breakdown isn't a one-man show :roll:
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by terryfinch »

Real possibility we could lose three games on the bounce I fear. Side just doesn't feel right. Too many players that don't quite fit.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by mr flaps »

openclashXX wrote:Eddie has officially crossed over into the bizarro selection world of being a proper England coach

Team gets smashed at the breakdown and loses? Make changes... at wing and fullback :?

"Oh the breakdown isn't a one-man job, everybody in the team is responsible" :yawn:

Perhaps England should just abolish back row players altogether and pick whoever they want there - get Sinckler and Cowan-Dickie on the flanks and Joseph at Number 8

After all the breakdown isn't a one-man show :roll:

Or did the post game analysis show that much of the problem was Owens being an utter plum?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Raggs »

mr flaps wrote:
openclashXX wrote:Eddie has officially crossed over into the bizarro selection world of being a proper England coach

Team gets smashed at the breakdown and loses? Make changes... at wing and fullback :?

"Oh the breakdown isn't a one-man job, everybody in the team is responsible" :yawn:

Perhaps England should just abolish back row players altogether and pick whoever they want there - get Sinckler and Cowan-Dickie on the flanks and Joseph at Number 8

After all the breakdown isn't a one-man show :roll:

Or did the post game analysis show that much of the problem was Owens being an utter plum?
Owens being, or not being, a plum (didn't think he was awful by any means), didn't stop our players from arriving late to the breakdowns, or failing to clear out the scots.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ovalball »

Raggs wrote:
mr flaps wrote:
openclashXX wrote:Eddie has officially crossed over into the bizarro selection world of being a proper England coach

Team gets smashed at the breakdown and loses? Make changes... at wing and fullback :?

"Oh the breakdown isn't a one-man job, everybody in the team is responsible" :yawn:

Perhaps England should just abolish back row players altogether and pick whoever they want there - get Sinckler and Cowan-Dickie on the flanks and Joseph at Number 8

After all the breakdown isn't a one-man show :roll:

Or did the post game analysis show that much of the problem was Owens being an utter plum?
Owens being, or not being, a plum (didn't think he was awful by any means), didn't stop our players from arriving late to the breakdowns, or failing to clear out the scots.
:thumbup:
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by colonel »

Does anyone feel like we're at the "joe Worsley at 7" point in this era. From a English Fan hysteria point of view?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

openclashXX wrote:Eddie has officially crossed over into the bizarro selection world of being a proper England coach

Team gets smashed at the breakdown and loses? Make changes... at wing and fullback :?

"Oh the breakdown isn't a one-man job, everybody in the team is responsible" :yawn:

Perhaps England should just abolish back row players altogether and pick whoever they want there - get Sinckler and Cowan-Dickie on the flanks and Joseph at Number 8

After all the breakdown isn't a one-man show :roll:
Sinkler and Cowan dickie would inject some pace into the back row.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

JM2K6 wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:If he’s trained at 15 this week he may be more settled? Wonder how brown will cope as a dirtracker, he’s reputed to be a bit of an arsehole.
Is he? His reputation appears to be that he's a lovely and chilled out guy when he's not playing a game of rugby.
You hear that, I hear otherwise- maybe he’s in between.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by matta25 »

After Eddie's bizarre rant to the press about how outstanding Mike Brown has been for 24 games, he gets dropped.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by zzzz »

Don't get all this "we got turned over at the breakdown, so need a proper 7" nonsense.

A good 7 can't defend your own ball. That's about changing your pod system and playing narrower.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

I’ve still got faith in Edward though, for the record. I may think his back row is batshit but overall he’s still going well.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Chips »

matta25 wrote:After Eddie's bizarre rant to the press about how outstanding Mike Brown has been for 24 games, he gets dropped.



"You can only polish a turd for so long before you get shit on your hands"

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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ovalball »

Scrummie wrote:
ovalball wrote:Teo OK, not convinced but I can see the benefit. Watson OK, need someone to get time in the shirt, Daly - just hope he's match ready - he's our best back.

But Fck knows what's with Eddie and the back row - it's just madness - they were awful v the Scots and aren't going to, suddenly, become an international quality unit - even if they manage to do enough against France.

At least he's had to give George a start, so there'll be a little more pace in the pack.


I remain, utterly unconvinced about Eddie. We've made zero progress in the last 18 months and there's precious few signs that he is acknowledging/tackling the real problems in the team.

Another loss would be no bad thing.
24 wins from 26. Wow you’re a tough on to please.

Do you think we're a better team now than we were 18 months ago ??????

Do you think we're on track to win the RWC ?????
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by openclashXX »

The hilarious thing is that Robshaw is a 6, Lawes is officially a 6 (as of this season) and Hughes was initially picked by Eddie as a long-term 6 (prior to the Billy injury)

Not since Croft-Robshaw-Wood have we seen so many blindsides in one back row
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