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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:53 am 
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Interesting article from Robert Fisk, a jouno who's actually on the ground in Syria; http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syr ... 07726.html
No doubt in the pay of Assad or a shill for Putin though... ;)
OAN report from Douma; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSXwG-901yU


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:40 am 
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Red Chopper wrote:
Interesting article from Robert Fisk, a jouno who's actually on the ground in Syria; http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syr ... 07726.html
No doubt in the pay of Assad or a shill for Putin though... ;)
OAN report from Douma; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSXwG-901yU


The literal 'fog of war.'
That's the problem, and one we saw a helluva lot in Mosul. Many suspected attacks, or even people in the vicinity of actual chemical attacks weren't actually affected by the agent at all, probably 2/3rds of casualties I treated for suspected chemical exposure weren't actually affected by the stuff. It doesn't mean the attacks weren't real - they f**king were - it just indicates that terrified people (esp civilians) on the ground aren't the best people available to authenticate the type of weapon being used or diagnose their own symptoms. They see some funny cloud, they smell something funny, they aren't going to stick around, take a taste test, calmly check their pulse, or start measuring their own pupils. They're going to call it gas and not risk themselves for the sake of accuracy in war reporting.
They may be overcome with hypoxia sheltering from the chemicals... is that any more morally sound than being killed by the chemical itself? Only if you think someone eaten by Lions while hiding in their cage from an escaped Gorilla is any better off.

When possible, the OPCW and other organizations have been able to take samples from attacks and been able to confirm the use of chemical agents across Syria, that's not in doubt. Not every time some panicky bitch starts shrieking "SARIN!" is going to be an attack of course, but hell, we can't really start hating on people being bombarded with chemical weapons by their own government just because they don't get it right every damn time.
Chemical weapons are a psychological weapon just as much as they are a Weapon of Mass Destruction. In fact, they're often not effectively deployed, and are far more use keeping a population cowed and terrified, they don't need to kill everyone, they just have to show that they can get to them in their pathetic little bomb shelters they're huddling in.
Much easier to wipe out everyone there to get to the bad guys with these weapons than go house to house, especially when you don't care about civilian casualties.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:46 am 
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Quote:
No doubt in the pay of Assad or a shill for Putin though... ;)


Yep...pretty much:

https://twitter.com/_RichardHall/status ... 3425107970


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:54 pm 
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Have a read of this: https://www.conflictarm.com/download-fi ... le_id=2574

It is a best attempt at identifying the sources of IS weaponry, and the US is right up there as a source.

It's abundantly clear that the US has had their finger in this war reasonably deeply, and against the Syrian government, for some time, and that they're happy to provide weapons to supposed enemies. I see no reason to trust their statements on Syria any more than those of the Russians - and in this case, logic, and a fair bit of evidence suggests that the Syrian government did not gas civilians. Meanwhile, the UK is selling cluster bombs to the Saudis to use on Yemen (and Yemeni civilians). The Russians are certainly on the wrong side of some things in this multi-theatre proxy war, but they're not the ones on the wrong side in the Middle East. We are.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:04 pm 
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tc27 wrote:
Anyway - Vlad cant protect his client regime in the ME and was too scared to even turn on his vaunted missile defenses to protect Syria whilst his Russian trained and equipped allies ended up launching dozens of missiles pointlessly after the strike had finished.


Managed to finally get rid of that pesky stash of Egyptian cotton


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:11 pm 
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pontifex wrote:
Have a read of this: https://www.conflictarm.com/download-fi ... le_id=2574

It is a best attempt at identifying the sources of IS weaponry, and the US is right up there as a source.

It's abundantly clear that the US has had their finger in this war reasonably deeply, and against the Syrian government, for some time, and that they're happy to provide weapons to supposed enemies. I see no reason to trust their statements on Syria any more than those of the Russians - and in this case, logic, and a fair bit of evidence suggests that the Syrian government did not gas civilians. Meanwhile, the UK is selling cluster bombs to the Saudis to use on Yemen (and Yemeni civilians). The Russians are certainly on the wrong side of some things in this multi-theatre proxy war, but they're not the ones on the wrong side in the Middle East. We are.


The Iraqi army completely collapsed in Mosul and Northern Iraq, leaving behind tonnes of heavy weapons and small arms. It's not surprise the US is up there considering they were also the biggest supplier to the Iraqi army.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:22 pm 
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message #2527204 wrote:
tc27 wrote:
Anyway - Vlad cant protect his client regime in the ME and was too scared to even turn on his vaunted missile defenses to protect Syria whilst his Russian trained and equipped allies ended up launching dozens of missiles pointlessly after the strike had finished.


Managed to finally get rid of that pesky stash of Egyptian cotton


Chocolate Covered Cotton?


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:24 pm 
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pontifex wrote:
Have a read of this: https://www.conflictarm.com/download-fi ... le_id=2574

It is a best attempt at identifying the sources of IS weaponry, and the US is right up there as a source.

It's abundantly clear that the US has had their finger in this war reasonably deeply, and against the Syrian government, for some time, and that they're happy to provide weapons to supposed enemies. I see no reason to trust their statements on Syria any more than those of the Russians - and in this case, logic, and a fair bit of evidence suggests that the Syrian government did not gas civilians. Meanwhile, the UK is selling cluster bombs to the Saudis to use on Yemen (and Yemeni civilians). The Russians are certainly on the wrong side of some things in this multi-theatre proxy war, but they're not the ones on the wrong side in the Middle East. We are.


Without getting too deep into the latest five minutes of shenanigans going on I can't help but agree tbh.

Too put it simply, we're basically backing oil rich bedouins over a civilization older than ours.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:27 pm 
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Once again it boils down to the rank stupidity of the "Enemy of my enemy" approach to foreign relations.
It's all too easy for both sides to be arseholes, and for the civilians caught up in it to be the ones getting royally shafted, yet again.
Rinse.
Repeat.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:37 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:
Once again it boils down to the rank stupidity of the "Enemy of my enemy" approach to foreign relations.
It's all too easy for both sides to be arseholes, and for the civilians caught up in it to be the ones getting royally shafted, yet again.
Rinse.
Repeat.


What does?


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:42 pm 
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RuggaBugga wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Once again it boils down to the rank stupidity of the "Enemy of my enemy" approach to foreign relations.
It's all too easy for both sides to be arseholes, and for the civilians caught up in it to be the ones getting royally shafted, yet again.
Rinse.
Repeat.


What does?


So many of the attempts, missteps, and clusterfucks getting involved in the Middle East from other nations.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:54 pm 
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Quote:
a civilization older than ours.


The Persians ?


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:02 pm 
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Bullettyme wrote:
pontifex wrote:
Have a read of this: https://www.conflictarm.com/download-fi ... le_id=2574

It is a best attempt at identifying the sources of IS weaponry, and the US is right up there as a source.

It's abundantly clear that the US has had their finger in this war reasonably deeply, and against the Syrian government, for some time, and that they're happy to provide weapons to supposed enemies. I see no reason to trust their statements on Syria any more than those of the Russians - and in this case, logic, and a fair bit of evidence suggests that the Syrian government did not gas civilians. Meanwhile, the UK is selling cluster bombs to the Saudis to use on Yemen (and Yemeni civilians). The Russians are certainly on the wrong side of some things in this multi-theatre proxy war, but they're not the ones on the wrong side in the Middle East. We are.


The Iraqi army completely collapsed in Mosul and Northern Iraq, leaving behind tonnes of heavy weapons and small arms. It's not surprise the US is up there considering they were also the biggest supplier to the Iraqi army.

Read the article. Some anti-tank weapons were sold by the Bulgarian manufacturer to the US, for their use exclusively, within 59 days of being found in the arms of ISIS soldiers. Their provenance is not all, or even mainly, via Mosul.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:19 pm 
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:lol: Yeah, I'm not reading 200 pages of it today. Will do another time. A brief skim sets out that 50% of the arms come from Russia and China. I've no doubt that the US vetting system was a complete crock, and has has been involved since the start.

Not sure what the "wrong side" is in the ME though really. You'd want to flesh that out. And as for "evidence and logic" part of your post, haven't been presented with a) and evidence and b) any logic apart from the discredited "he's winning the war why would he do this". Must just be a coincidence that Ghouta capitulated so soon after the alleged chemical attacks. For me the previous points to the Assad government, a long with the usual Russian obfuscation.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:23 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Quote:
a civilization older than ours.


The Persians ?


Yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:26 pm 
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RuggaBugga wrote:
Bowens wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
Bowens wrote:
You're good man. But Syria is on all our radars now, and with smart phones and sociaml media everyone has access to info they didn't necessarily during Iraq 1 & 2. We have seen this movie before.

Is f**king frkightening that people prefer to believe hostile propaganda on FB than their own governemnt. And that they think that fabricated, bullshitting memes somehow give them the 'bigger picture' rather than obfuscating the truth as they are designed to do


FB memes? This is a pretty cliched argument. The people sharing those seem to mostly be Baby Boomers like Taranaki Snapper. I use Twitter to follow some independent media (who probably have better records when fact-checked than some mainstream sources). That's about it. Imagine being a big enough doofus to still trust people like Brian Williams on Syria after all that has transpired in recent years.


Like who?


Mainly TYT network but I watch and read stuff from all different viewpoints. Basically anyone who doesn't shill for corporations.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:27 pm 
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Bowens wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
a civilization older than ours.


The Persians ?


Yes.



It's an obscene comparison if you take the current regimes. And is it really even older than post "Magna Carta" UK or federal France from the 10th century ?


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:35 pm 
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message #2527204 wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:

By 'The western alliance' I take it you mean 3 of the 5 permanent members of the UN body that has primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security?

Assad has been warned on many occasions not to use chemical weapons and there have been 400 reports of his forces using them since then. It is a UN security matter if international treaties are flouted.



So according to which UN resolution did the governments of the USA, UK and France attack Syria, a sovereign country, earlier this month ? Who give them the right to deploy troops and military personnel in Syria, uninvited ? Why do they assist and abet forces illegally waging an armed conflict with teh legal government of Syria ? On whose authority ?

In Syria the mentioned Western countries are simply terrorist states, aiding and fomenting terror. Nothing more. Quite despicable, actually, but they have form ...


Parties to the Geneva Conventions and their additional protocols are explicitly obligated not only to respect their treaty obligations, but also to ensure respect for them.

According to which resolution can Russia ignore the laws regarding chemical weapons?

The use of chemical weapons is a war crime
The use of chemical weapons is a violation of international criminal law
The use of chemical weapons in a widespread and systematic attack against a civilian population is a crime against humanity.



Did Russia deploy chemical weapons ? Where and when ? Dates and places....


So, Russia is guilty, because you say so, and they'd better provide evidence that they are not ?


Parties to the Geneva Conventions and their additional protocols are explicitly obligated not only to respect their treaty obligations, but also to ensure respect for them.

In 2003 both the US and UK broke those protocols. Blair and Bush have never been prosecuted in the International court in the Hague. You can't pick and chose when to apply the GC.

On top of that. Drone strikes carried out by the Western Alliance or mostly US have bombed hospitals, civilians and even funeral functions where children were killed. They are the last ones to be enforcing any international protocols.

And that's not even taking into account the questionable evidence about Assads guilt.

Enough with the propaganda and leave those countries alone. You've done enough damage already.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:37 pm 
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Bullettyme wrote:
:lol: Yeah, I'm not reading 200 pages of it today. Will do another time. A brief skim sets out that 50% of the arms come from Russia and China. I've no doubt that the US vetting system was a complete crock, and has has been involved since the start.

Not sure what the "wrong side" is in the ME though really. You'd want to flesh that out. And as for "evidence and logic" part of your post, haven't been presented with a) and evidence and b) any logic apart from the discredited "he's winning the war why would he do this". Must just be a coincidence that Ghouta capitulated so soon after the alleged chemical attacks. For me the previous points to the Assad government, a long with the usual Russian obfuscation.

Hypothetically. Let's say Assad gets killed. Who takes over from him??? And would the Western Alliance help rebuild their country??? You don't exactly have a good track record for cleaning up the mess!


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:09 pm 
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Ah yes, those heady days of 2003 when the entire population of 'The West' came together as one, and without a single murmur of dissent, a word of caution or a moment of thought decided collectively to invade Iraq and therefore ensure that nobody would ever be able to then say a word of criticsm in the future should any other country ever decide to commit horrendous war crimes against civilians.
Great days.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:12 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Bowens wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
a civilization older than ours.


The Persians ?


Yes.



is it really even older than post "Magna Carta" UK or federal France from the 10th century ?


bimbo does history :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:18 am 
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Relax everyone. The NZ PM is in Europe and having a meeting with the UK, Aus, and Canadian PM about Vlad. With our guidance that pesky commie will be sorted out. Close thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:10 am 
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She can flick over to Moscow and sort out the little shit - good parental training for her


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:16 am 
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Bowens wrote:
RuggaBugga wrote:
Bowens wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
Bowens wrote:
You're good man. But Syria is on all our radars now, and with smart phones and sociaml media everyone has access to info they didn't necessarily during Iraq 1 & 2. We have seen this movie before.

Is f**king frkightening that people prefer to believe hostile propaganda on FB than their own governemnt. And that they think that fabricated, bullshitting memes somehow give them the 'bigger picture' rather than obfuscating the truth as they are designed to do


FB memes? This is a pretty cliched argument. The people sharing those seem to mostly be Baby Boomers like Taranaki Snapper. I use Twitter to follow some independent media (who probably have better records when fact-checked than some mainstream sources). That's about it. Imagine being a big enough doofus to still trust people like Brian Williams on Syria after all that has transpired in recent years.


Like who?


Mainly TYT network but I watch and read stuff from all different viewpoints. Basically anyone who doesn't shill for corporations.


Haven't seen an awful lot of TYT but I watch a bit of Vice stuff from reporters on the ground in Mosul, Aleppo, Raqqa etc...

I can't speak to the fact checking but in the case of Vice at least are better at simple reporting as opposed to pushing a narrative.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:36 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Bowens wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
a civilization older than ours.


The Persians ?


Yes.



It's an obscene comparison if you take the current regimes. And is it really even older than post "Magna Carta" UK or federal France from the 10th century ?


Erm yes, just a little bit older :lol:

Without really delving into the underlying point which was that the Persian people are a bit more civilised than your average Saudi, how exactly is the current saudi regime any less "obscene" than the Persian one?


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:39 am 
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Zakar wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
tc27 wrote:
Anyway - Vlad cant protect his client regime in the ME and was too scared to even turn on his vaunted missile defenses to protect Syria whilst his Russian trained and equipped allies ended up launching dozens of missiles pointlessly after the strike had finished.


Managed to finally get rid of that pesky stash of Egyptian cotton


Chocolate Covered Cotton?


It is still cotton and cotton is not edible


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:26 pm 
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Skripals were poisoned by a Western nerve agent. BZ.

https://nypost.com/2018/04/14/russia-sw ... d-in-west/


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:31 pm 
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I see after begging to be part of the OPCW investigation the Russians are doing their best to undermine its findings and challenge its legitimacy. Which is pretty convenient as they're doing work in Syria at this moment in time too. They're not very subtle, the Russians.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:32 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Skripals were poisoned by a Western nerve agent. BZ.

https://nypost.com/2018/04/14/russia-sw ... d-in-west/


:roll:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/18/opcw-rejects-russian-claims-of-second-salisbury-nerve-agent


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:34 pm 
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Bullettyme wrote:
I see after begging to be part of the OPCW investigation the Russians are doing their best to undermine its findings and challenge its legitimacy. Which is pretty convenient as they're doing work in Syria at this moment in time too. They're not very subtle, the Russians.


They are certainly flinging shit all over the place!


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:34 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Skripals were poisoned by a Western nerve agent. BZ.

https://nypost.com/2018/04/14/russia-sw ... d-in-west/


No. "Russia claims that...."

And the OPCW say they're full of shit

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... erve-agent

They in fact describe it as a "craven attempt to mislead the international community"

Shame on you for so willingly becoming a shill for such disinformation.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Homer wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
I see after begging to be part of the OPCW investigation the Russians are doing their best to undermine its findings and challenge its legitimacy. Which is pretty convenient as they're doing work in Syria at this moment in time too. They're not very subtle, the Russians.


They are certainly flinging shit all over the place!


They have 24 theories for the Skripal poisoning, all with zero evidence. Then there's this today. It's a very clear attempt at obfuscation and a deliberate muddying of the waters.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:52 pm 
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What's considerably more ominous about Russia releasing this disinformation is that it shows yet again how brazen they are.
The Swiss lab (OPCW approved) received the samples, including a control sample of a precursor to BZ - 3Q was used, not BZ itself.
Now, it was not disclosed which labs the OPCW were using, which samples went where, what the controls were, or any other information. Yet Russia were able to apparently point out these specifics - complete with deliberately wrong info - very quickly.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:25 pm 
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Bullettyme wrote:
I see after begging to be part of the OPCW investigation the Russians are doing their best to undermine its findings and challenge its legitimacy. Which is pretty convenient as they're doing work in Syria at this moment in time too. They're not very subtle, the Russians.



So the Russians are now owning and subverting a Western (Swiss) independent laboratory ? Wow ...
Should they accept that they (Russia) deal in BZ, a Western nerve agent ?
(which they may, we do not know, do we .... but we will have to take their word, they do not have to PROVE that they anything here ...)
Why suddenly such HUGE concentration of A234 IN IT'S BASE STATE, IN HIGH CONCENTRATIONS which would surely have lead to fatalities ? Was that added on, by the Brits, later ? Quite probably, to make their case ... Why did teh OPCW not report the BZ ? Are they also spinning the narrative ? Seemingly, one suspects ..

Pretty convenient for the UK's narrative bots to suddenly start blaming subversion on Russia. The UK started it, this dance will have to continue to it's logical end (the UK's false flag story, again, imho)

A pretty cheap solution to an embarrassing problem - an out-of-work Russian turned spy, useless and compromised, probably sticking the UK for millions, possibly even blackmailing them ... Kill the bastard, contaminate his samples with A234, and blame Russia ... several flies with one blow.
Ethelred the Unready would have been proud ..


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
I see after begging to be part of the OPCW investigation the Russians are doing their best to undermine its findings and challenge its legitimacy. Which is pretty convenient as they're doing work in Syria at this moment in time too. They're not very subtle, the Russians.



So the Russians are now owning and subverting a Western (Swiss) independent laboratory ? Wow ...
Should they accept that they (Russia) deal in BZ, a Western nerve agent ?
(which they may, we do not know, do we .... but we will have to take their word, they do not have to PROVE that they anything here ...)
Why suddenly such HUGE concentration of A234 IN IT'S BASE STATE, IN HIGH CONCENTRATIONS which would surely have lead to fatalities ? Was that added on, by the Brits, later ? Quite probably, to make their case ... Why did teh OPCW not report the BZ ? Are they also spinning the narrative ? Seemingly, one suspects ..

Pretty convenient for the UK's narrative bots to suddenly start blaming subversion on Russia. The UK started it, this dance will have to continue to it's logical end (the UK's false flag story, again, imho)

A pretty cheap solution to an embarrassing problem - an out-of-work Russian turned spy, useless and compromised, probably sticking the UK for millions, possibly even blackmailing them ... Kill the bastard, contaminate his samples with A234, and blame Russia ... several flies with one blow.
Ethelred the Unready would have been proud ..


Have a read above and try to comprehend what has been said you conspiracy minded, childishly contrarian halfwit.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:30 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:
What's considerably more ominous about Russia releasing this disinformation is that it shows yet again how brazen they are.
The Swiss lab (OPCW approved) received the samples, including a control sample of a precursor to BZ - 3Q was used, not BZ itself.
Now, it was not disclosed which labs the OPCW were using, which samples went where, what the controls were, or any other information. Yet Russia were able to apparently point out these specifics - complete with deliberately wrong info - very quickly.



Quote:
Minister Sergey Lavrov said Saturday that Moscow received the confidential information from the laboratory in Spiez, Switzerland, that analyzed samples from the site of the March 4 poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter in the English city of Salisbury.

He said the analysis was done at the request of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.


I am waiting with bated breath for the lie to be proved .... TG gave them the argument. Can they use it ? Or is Russia right .... where did they get the report - How did they get it ? Who gave it to them ?

What matters to me is that the narrative is not cut-and-dried Russia poisoned them. There is considerable doubt. Like in other cases involving poisonous stuff ...


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:31 pm 
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Bullettyme wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
I see after begging to be part of the OPCW investigation the Russians are doing their best to undermine its findings and challenge its legitimacy. Which is pretty convenient as they're doing work in Syria at this moment in time too. They're not very subtle, the Russians.



So the Russians are now owning and subverting a Western (Swiss) independent laboratory ? Wow ...
Should they accept that they (Russia) deal in BZ, a Western nerve agent ?
(which they may, we do not know, do we .... but we will have to take their word, they do not have to PROVE that they anything here ...)
Why suddenly such HUGE concentration of A234 IN IT'S BASE STATE, IN HIGH CONCENTRATIONS which would surely have lead to fatalities ? Was that added on, by the Brits, later ? Quite probably, to make their case ... Why did teh OPCW not report the BZ ? Are they also spinning the narrative ? Seemingly, one suspects ..

Pretty convenient for the UK's narrative bots to suddenly start blaming subversion on Russia. The UK started it, this dance will have to continue to it's logical end (the UK's false flag story, again, imho)

A pretty cheap solution to an embarrassing problem - an out-of-work Russian turned spy, useless and compromised, probably sticking the UK for millions, possibly even blackmailing them ... Kill the bastard, contaminate his samples with A234, and blame Russia ... several flies with one blow.
Ethelred the Unready would have been proud ..


Have a read above and try to comprehend what has been said you conspiracy minded, childishly contrarian halfwit.



Ahh. Personal stuff again. Thanks for confirming that you lost the argument.


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:33 pm 
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You're not arguing anything .


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Bullettyme wrote:
You're not arguing anything .



No implicated argument ?


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 Post subject: Re: Vlad's at it again
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:38 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
What's considerably more ominous about Russia releasing this disinformation is that it shows yet again how brazen they are.
The Swiss lab (OPCW approved) received the samples, including a control sample of a precursor to BZ - 3Q was used, not BZ itself.
Now, it was not disclosed which labs the OPCW were using, which samples went where, what the controls were, or any other information. Yet Russia were able to apparently point out these specifics - complete with deliberately wrong info - very quickly.



Quote:
Minister Sergey Lavrov said Saturday that Moscow received the confidential information from the laboratory in Spiez, Switzerland, that analyzed samples from the site of the March 4 poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter in the English city of Salisbury.

He said the analysis was done at the request of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.


I am waiting with bated breath for the lie to be proved .... TG gave them the argument. Can they use it ? Or is Russia right .... where did they get the report - How did they get it ? Who gave it to them ?

What matters to me is that the narrative is not cut-and-dried Russia poisoned them. There is considerable doubt. Like in other cases involving poisonous stuff ...


Read what I wrote above. Look up what a control means in this context, and also what a precursor is.
The Russians have obtained this info through dodgy means, and subverted it for credulous fools to suddenly have an excuse to think it's not so cut and dried.
They've well and truly screwed themselves and the tattered remains of their credibility by this latest stunt.


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