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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 12:40 pm 
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You hear a lot of this from butt hurt Nat voters. That they don't support National and they take each election as it comes depending on the policies.

What a load of bullshit.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 1:54 pm 
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Thai guy wrote:
You hear a lot of this from butt hurt Nat voters. That they don't support National and they take each election as it comes depending on the policies.

What a load of bullshit.


All good

Don't really care what you think either way

Good luck with your "Labour for life. Cos me dad did!!!!"


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 2:08 pm 
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More crap. Every single thing you post here is as rigid as mine, but unlike you I don't pretend to be some centrist who changes his values every 5 minutes.

Be brave and own your ideology.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 2:15 pm 
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Thai guy wrote:
More crap. Every single thing you post here is as rigid as mine, but unlike you I don't pretend to be some centrist who changes his values every 5 minutes.

Be brave and own your ideology.


We don't live in the US

I'll pick an idealogy when the two main parties in NZ don't keep switching from center left to center right every other other year it suits them.

There is actually very little difference.between both


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:05 pm 
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Thai guy wrote:
Be brave and own your ideology.
be like water my friend


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:26 pm 
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Has anyone called Bridges on his trickle down comments? Or are we only looking for fuck-ups by Jacinda?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:30 pm 
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How about that idiot Bridges and his trickle down comments? Even dumber than Pullya Benefits comment about JA not doing any work. National is screwed with these two at the helm. Mind you, that might be part and parcel of the strategy.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 1:12 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
Has anyone called Bridges on his trickle down comments? Or are we only looking for fuck-ups by Jacinda?
There's still a massive number of mainstream journos shilling for the Nats and they are going very easy on Bridges in a way which was totally absent in their treatment of Goff, Cunliffe, and Little.

I think it's partly to do with access. For instance one of them, Stacey Kirk, has her nose so far up National's arse she struggles getting interviews with government people and in order to complete columns for her employer is forced to prop up the only people who will speak to her which is the opposition. She in particular is making a valiant attempt at legitimising Bridges' brain-farts.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 1:19 am 
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The inequality in Auckland has fudge all to do with incomes and everything to do with the cost of housing sucking away those incomes into the bank accounts of property owners.

Trickle down economics is widely misunderstood and the case in Auckland is something it cannot be applied to as investment in property does not create prosperity.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 1:30 am 
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deadduck wrote:
The inequality in Auckland has fudge all to do with incomes and everything to do with the cost of housing sucking away those incomes into the bank accounts of property owners.

Trickle down economics is widely misunderstood and the case in Auckland is something it cannot be applied to as investment in property does not create prosperity.


Sorry, are these two comments compatible?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 2:14 am 
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Until you own a property freehold, it generates next to no wealth. And even when it does, it only generates wealth for the owner and the providers of services they buy to maintain it (insurance companies etc). Still though, this wealth is just a transfer of money from the renters to the owners. The overall level of prosperity in the economy is the same. It's this sort of investment that drives inequality, because as the cost of the investment increases, the rent the owner demands must increase which means the tenants get ever poorer.

If instead the investment was in commercial property, or into a business, that would generate wealth for everyone involved. While the investor would still gain wealth, it would not be at the expense of the poorer end of the economy. The economy instead grows.

Over simplified I realise, economics always is, but the principle is clear and that is the key to trickle down economics - reduced taxation MUST be accompanied by increased investment in wealth generating sectors - otherwise it does not work. And that's why it doesn't really work to its full extent in reality, because people just tend to buy bigger houses or boats etc with the extra money.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 2:21 am 
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deadduck wrote:

Over simplified I realise, economics always is, but the principle is clear and that is the key to trickle down economics - reduced taxation MUST be accompanied by increased investment in wealth generating sectors - otherwise it does not work. And that's why it doesn't really work to its full extent in reality, because people just tend to buy bigger houses or boats etc with the extra money.


I don't believe trickle down works. There's enough stuff on it floating around Australia currently to convince me it's a fake theory. It's a handly label to justify boosting the wrong end of the economy.

What you seem to be outlining is the problem with the profit available to be made in housing and the only way to counter that, without costing the wider economy more in propping up the lower end, is to limit profit through either tax or some other mechanism.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 4:02 am 
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Trickle down only works if the ones at the top allow it.

Which kind of screws the whole concept up if the people at the top happen to be greedy.

Unless you have some entity overseeing it and controlling it there are too many things that can stop it. But you can't because that would be even worse for other reasons


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:00 am 
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Un-fecking-believable. Where are The Greens here? Did they not even think of writing this into their agreement with Labour? Why aren't they screaming from the rooftops? And will someone please set up an unaligned green party?

http://norightturn.blogspot.com.au/2018 ... ustry.html

Politically an opportunity for National to get a private members' bill in as a wedge issue for The Greens and Labour.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:10 am 
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The Nats are having a massive hissy-fit at the speaker of the house. Seems they don't like to be probed when one of them insults the Prime Minister and doesn't own up.

Welcome to opposition, Nats. It's hard, get used to it. :lol:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/104155890/national-accuses-speaker-of-pushing-the-stupid-little-girl-story


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:14 am 
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I wonder how much is usually picked up on the tapes for the alleged comment not to be audible.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:21 am 
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Well, Mallard is about the only one that actually claims to have heard it and he's gone on to launch a full on witch hunt in the media

Nobody is owning up to it, or if any of the Labour MPs heard it they're not naming names
You can't hear it on the recording either


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:23 am 
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Yeah, the tapes aren't good enough. We are instead relying on the honesty and integrity of National mps...


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:24 am 
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Audible or not, this is not the first time Brownlee has got his knickers in a twist at a perceived angle against national. Surely he realises a ranting letter to the speaker makes it much worse for his party? Personally, I think it’s a hangover from 9 years in power and he hasn’t shaken the arrogance yet.still expects the media to jump at his command and eat out of his hand.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:25 am 
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deadduck wrote:
Well, Mallard is about the only one that actually claims to have heard it and he's gone on to launch a full on witch hunt in the media

Nobody is owning up to it, or if any of the Labour MPs heard it they're not naming names
You can't hear it on the recording either


I thought it was a bit of a beat up when Newshub went nuclear on it but Gerry has turned the whole thing into a joke on national.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:27 am 
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I see the original Stuff article notes:

Quote:
A snap poll of Stuff's political team found three reporters could not hear the remark at all, while two could hear something like "stupid little girl" - but couldn't be sure this wasn't something else.


So it seems plausible that Trevor Mallard is making a lot of noise about an insult that may never have been spoken.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:29 am 
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JB1981 wrote:
I see the original Stuff article notes:

Quote:
A snap poll of Stuff's political team found three reporters could not hear the remark at all, while two could hear something like "stupid little girl" - but couldn't be sure this wasn't something else.


So it seems plausible that Trevor Mallard is making a lot of noise about an insult that may never have been spoken.


It’s possible, and this story had died until Gerry revived it.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:29 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
Yeah, the tapes aren't good enough. We are instead relying on the honesty and integrity of National mps...

And the Speaker, and members from all other parties, everyone viewing and all of the media who were present. And yet there's nothing conclusive.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:30 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
JB1981 wrote:
I see the original Stuff article notes:

Quote:
A snap poll of Stuff's political team found three reporters could not hear the remark at all, while two could hear something like "stupid little girl" - but couldn't be sure this wasn't something else.


So it seems plausible that Trevor Mallard is making a lot of noise about an insult that may never have been spoken.


It’s possible, and this story had died until Gerry revived it.

True, with his comments and Paula Bennett's remarks they have definitely kept the story live.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 9:04 am 
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This evil little man

Image

who is propped up in his electorate by the National party despite being a vociferous promoter of self-reliance, wants to stop this

Image

turning into this.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 9:59 am 
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MCB to cost NZ $1Billion. :shock: That's quite a bill National left us with. Never mind, the townies will pay, again.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/05/mycoplasma-bovis-could-cost-new-zealand-1-billion.html


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:03 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
MCB to cost NZ $1Billion. :shock: That's quite a bill National left us with. Never mind, the townies will pay, again.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/05/mycoplasma-bovis-could-cost-new-zealand-1-billion.html

Why bring farmers vs townies into it?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:07 am 
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I like Seymour. He gets way more stick than he deserves.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:20 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
I like Seymour. He gets way more stick than he deserves.
He is extremely thick.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:21 am 
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JB1981 wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
MCB to cost NZ $1Billion. :shock: That's quite a bill National left us with. Never mind, the townies will pay, again.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/05/mycoplasma-bovis-could-cost-new-zealand-1-billion.html

Why bring farmers vs townies into it?
Because we are going to pay for their screw-up. Yet again.

And I'm not even talking about those who work the farms. They are just ordinary people happy to work in a polluting industry but there are heaps of them around. I'm talking about these new Agri-business oligarchs who own multiple farms and hungrily chew up more and more unsuitable land for dirty dairying forcing sloppy, untested practice and non-compliance on their workers.


Last edited by Thai guy on Wed May 23, 2018 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:28 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
I like Seymour. He gets way more stick than he deserves.
He is extremely thick.


He strikes me as quite intelligent and very driven. I just disagree with his policies.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:48 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
I like Seymour. He gets way more stick than he deserves.
He is extremely thick.


He strikes me as quite intelligent and very driven. I just disagree with his policies.
I've been in a room with him. He's not intelligent, or at least if he is it's blind libertarianism which pollutes what intelligence there might be.

This Banff Ave thing is classic Seymour though and reminds me of Seneca's Starbucks thread. These guys are segregators. They do not believe in the power of homogenised community to fix the disadvantaged and the elite alike. Seneca was upset that Starbucks used its position on every street corner to become a community provider of space for disadvantaged people. This was actually a social gesture by Starbucks (admittedly under pressure after negative media stories) in response to the excesses of expanding inequalities which sees more and more people unable to live adequately under modern western rules.

Similarly, on Banff Ave, Seymour completely ignores the benefits to both the future social housing residents (solo mothers with young or teenaged kids) and the existing neighbours (who all bought next to or have lived with the HNZ property in question). Narrow minded right wing clowns like Seymour are solely interested in their own future in the electorate rather than a wider stratified community where social pressures are diluted and dispersed. He seeks to concentrate bad outcomes in designated areas just as Seneca seeks to keep people who can't afford a Starbucks coffee out on the street.

It's quite disgusting really.


Last edited by Thai guy on Wed May 23, 2018 10:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:49 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
And I'm not even talking about those who work the farms. They are just ordinary people happy to work in a polluting industry but there are heaps of them around. I'm talking about these new Agri-business oligarchs who own multiple farms and hungrily chew up more and more unsuitable land for dirty dairying forcing sloppy, untested practice and non-compliance on their workers.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

What is it about your sad, miserable existence that makes you so bitter and twisted about ... oh never mind.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:52 am 
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booji boy wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
And I'm not even talking about those who work the farms. They are just ordinary people happy to work in a polluting industry but there are heaps of them around. I'm talking about these new Agri-business oligarchs who own multiple farms and hungrily chew up more and more unsuitable land for dirty dairying forcing sloppy, untested practice and non-compliance on their workers.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

What is it about your sad, miserable existence that makes you so bitter and twisted about ... oh never mind.
Yeah so the two farms at the centre of all this are those of the van Leewens and the Zeestratens (or something like that). They own about 50 farms between them. Why can't you make the connection between increasing agri-business intensification practice and increasing harm to the water table and now to livestock?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 11:24 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
MCB to cost NZ $1Billion. :shock: That's quite a bill National left us with. Never mind, the townies will pay, again.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/05/mycoplasma-bovis-could-cost-new-zealand-1-billion.html



What does this have to do with National?

Do you think the Minister controls the day to day operations of MPI?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 11:28 am 
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deadduck wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
MCB to cost NZ $1Billion. :shock: That's quite a bill National left us with. Never mind, the townies will pay, again.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/05/mycoplasma-bovis-could-cost-new-zealand-1-billion.html



What does this have to do with National?

Do you think the Minister controls the day to day operations of MPI?
Umm, the mismanagement of the very worst bovine disease to strike NZ short of foot and mouth in a $40billion primary economy is hardly "day to day operations".

National fucked this up so bad Nathan Guy had to take out a personal opinion piece in the media today asking for people to stop the blame game.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 11:35 am 
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deadduck wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
MCB to cost NZ $1Billion. :shock: That's quite a bill National left us with. Never mind, the townies will pay, again.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/05/mycoplasma-bovis-could-cost-new-zealand-1-billion.html



What does this have to do with National?

Do you think the Minister controls the day to day operations of MPI?

Your right of course. Nathan Guy and control are mutually exclusive . It requires cohesive thought where none would ever be found


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 11:50 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
deadduck wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
MCB to cost NZ $1Billion. :shock: That's quite a bill National left us with. Never mind, the townies will pay, again.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/05/mycoplasma-bovis-could-cost-new-zealand-1-billion.html



What does this have to do with National?

Do you think the Minister controls the day to day operations of MPI?
Umm, the mismanagement of the very worst bovine disease to strike NZ short of foot and mouth in a $40billion primary economy is hardly "day to day operations".

National fucked this up so bad Nathan Guy had to take out a personal opinion piece in the media today asking for people to stop the blame game.


I think he wrote that because like yourself, many NZers completely overestimate the powers of the Minister, and the Ministry to contain a disease outbreak in a cattle population of 10 million


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 11:56 am 
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Ministers are quick to take the credit for anything positive on their watch. This is the flip side.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 12:05 am 
Nathan Guy is quite retarded.


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