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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 4:00 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Waratah wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Yeah well I'm definitely not one of them then. Whatever fat white western people need, it's definitely not an egocentric, identity-driven political movement fighting for their allegedly infringed-upon rights.

Seneca's not fat.

Very lean at the moment. My 5k Parkrun times are on fire.

I'm offended by that. You imply that by being thin and able to run 5Km that I am not, and that you are somehow better than me. I notice you did not deny being white and western, another implicit condescension. If I were non-white, thin, and fit, then you'd look like a right twat.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 5:20 pm 
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MungoMan wrote:
Don't think on it too long on it. Life is too short. And fatcat is just a mouthy but thinskinned fúckstick in any event.


And you're supposed to be one of the more intelligent pensioners on here?

I've got very thick skin thank you. 8)


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 5:50 pm 
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Waratah wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Waratah wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Yeah well I'm definitely not one of them then. Whatever fat white western people need, it's definitely not an egocentric, identity-driven political movement fighting for their allegedly infringed-upon rights.

Seneca's not fat.

Very lean at the moment. My 5k Parkrun times are on fire.

I'm offended by that. You imply that by being thin and able to run 5Km that I am not, and that you are somehow better than me. I notice you did not deny being white and western, another implicit condescension. If I were non-white, thin, and fit, then you'd look like a right twat.


:lol:


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:05 pm 
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https://t.co/tsxMVVNCgt

Quote:
Jared Holt
‏ @jaredlholt

Richard Spencer, a leading figure in the "alt-right" movement, says that the alt-right does not actually support free speech, but rather pretends to do so for "radically pragmatic" reasons


Interesting!


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:24 am 
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paddyor wrote:
https://t.co/tsxMVVNCgt

Quote:
Jared Holt
‏ @jaredlholt

Richard Spencer, a leading figure in the "alt-right" movement, says that the alt-right does not actually support free speech, but rather pretends to do so for "radically pragmatic" reasons


Interesting!


Not really. The dude claims he's going to be able to create a white ethnostate out of the US peacefully. He's clearly full of shit, and has been cornered on his authoritarianism by people you would probably label alt-right. He's playing the same game as the identitarian left, and it's no surprise he shares their predeliction for authoritarianism. Horseshoe theory and all that.

The only reason you claim that's 'interesting' is because you collapse people who are not alt-right in with people who are. Authoritarianism and identitarianism are commonalities among the alt-right and the identitarian left, since they share a basic worldview. Their only disagreement is on which group power interests they want to promote.

Identity politics is a shit game. I don't see how anybody wins it.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:38 am 
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America's 'smartest man' on identity politics https://www.quora.com/What-is-Chris-Lan ... y-politics :

Quote:
My view on identity politics is that it can be justified only if everyone of any ethnicity is entitled to participate, in which case it is necessary for all (because failing to assert it, as when White people of European ancestry fail to assert it lest they be branded as “racists”, means leaving oneself and one’s group defenseless against competition for resources and opportunity). Alternatively, lest any group be denied its identity while others assert their own, group identity must be equitably denied to everyone.

Human identity is stratified, and thus has both individual and group levels. Accordingly, we can (and sometimes must) reason in terms of group identity. But when group self-identification is officially granted to some groups yet denied to others against which they compete, this can only result in imbalance and injustice. For example, when some overpopulating groups which have overtaxed their own resources by reproductive incontinence and homegrown oligarchy are allowed to migrate into the sovereign territories of worldwide ethnic minorities - e.g., people of European descent - and enjoy special “oppressed” status whereby they reap special benefits such as free food, free housing, free education, free healthcare, affirmative action, reproductive subsidies, and special treatment under the law, and are even credited with moral superiority due to their alleged “oppression”, this can result in the destruction of the national, cultural, and ethnic identity of the hosts, leading ultimately to their extinction. Incoming groups which assert their own collective identities while denying their hosts any reciprocal right of political group cohesion thus amount to noxious, invasive, and ultimately lethal socioeconomic parasites. Obviously, any governmental authority which enforces or encourages such asymmetry - e.g., the European Union - is illegitimate.

Bear in mind that once we cease to treat individuals as individuals per se, thus allowing members of their respective groups to assert their ethnic, cultural, or religious (etc.) identities against their “oppressors”, their group properties and statistics are automatically opened to scrutiny and comparative analysis. For example, if after several generations of special treatment in the educational sphere (compulsory school integration, special programs, modifications of educational procedure, racially defined college admission preferences, etc.), a particular “oppressed” group fails as a whole to outgrow these measures, its members are no longer entitled to exemption from objective characterization in terms of associated group statistics; if one wants to enjoy the social benefits attending ethically loaded group-defined properties like “belonging to an oppressed group”, one must submit to rational policies formed on the basis of not just individual assessment, but empirically confirmed group-defined properties such as “belonging to a group exhibiting a relatively low mean IQ and a tendency to violently disrupt the educational environment”. Continuing to pursue racially parameterized measures of human worth and achievement can only lead to personal injustice, social degradation, and biological degeneration (because such measures inevitably supplant any rational form of social, economic, and reproductive selection).

In short, identity politics should either be shut down immediately, or the majority populations of Europe and North America should be encouraged to assert their own ethnic and cultural identities and group interests with full force. Any governmental, academic, religious, or media authority which tries to prevent it is clearly unworthy of respect and obedience.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 3:20 am 
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fatcat wrote:
MungoMan wrote:
Don't think on it too long on it. Life is too short. And fatcat is just a mouthy but thinskinned fúckstick in any event.


And you're supposed to be one of the more intelligent pensioners on here?

I've got very thick skin thank you. 8)

:lol: Obviously!

I’m pretty sure no-one on the bored has ever accused me of being intelligent, tho’. And FWIW I’m still in the workforce. :x


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 8:48 am 
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pontifex wrote:
America's 'smartest man' on identity politics https://www.quora.com/What-is-Chris-Lan ... y-politics :

Quote:
My view on identity politics is that it can be justified only if everyone of any ethnicity is entitled to participate, in which case it is necessary for all (because failing to assert it, as when White people of European ancestry fail to assert it lest they be branded as “racists”, means leaving oneself and one’s group defenseless against competition for resources and opportunity). Alternatively, lest any group be denied its identity while others assert their own, group identity must be equitably denied to everyone.

Human identity is stratified, and thus has both individual and group levels. Accordingly, we can (and sometimes must) reason in terms of group identity. But when group self-identification is officially granted to some groups yet denied to others against which they compete, this can only result in imbalance and injustice. For example, when some overpopulating groups which have overtaxed their own resources by reproductive incontinence and homegrown oligarchy are allowed to migrate into the sovereign territories of worldwide ethnic minorities - e.g., people of European descent - and enjoy special “oppressed” status whereby they reap special benefits such as free food, free housing, free education, free healthcare, affirmative action, reproductive subsidies, and special treatment under the law, and are even credited with moral superiority due to their alleged “oppression”, this can result in the destruction of the national, cultural, and ethnic identity of the hosts, leading ultimately to their extinction. Incoming groups which assert their own collective identities while denying their hosts any reciprocal right of political group cohesion thus amount to noxious, invasive, and ultimately lethal socioeconomic parasites. Obviously, any governmental authority which enforces or encourages such asymmetry - e.g., the European Union - is illegitimate.

Bear in mind that once we cease to treat individuals as individuals per se, thus allowing members of their respective groups to assert their ethnic, cultural, or religious (etc.) identities against their “oppressors”, their group properties and statistics are automatically opened to scrutiny and comparative analysis. For example, if after several generations of special treatment in the educational sphere (compulsory school integration, special programs, modifications of educational procedure, racially defined college admission preferences, etc.), a particular “oppressed” group fails as a whole to outgrow these measures, its members are no longer entitled to exemption from objective characterization in terms of associated group statistics; if one wants to enjoy the social benefits attending ethically loaded group-defined properties like “belonging to an oppressed group”, one must submit to rational policies formed on the basis of not just individual assessment, but empirically confirmed group-defined properties such as “belonging to a group exhibiting a relatively low mean IQ and a tendency to violently disrupt the educational environment”. Continuing to pursue racially parameterized measures of human worth and achievement can only lead to personal injustice, social degradation, and biological degeneration (because such measures inevitably supplant any rational form of social, economic, and reproductive selection).

In short, identity politics should either be shut down immediately, or the majority populations of Europe and North America should be encouraged to assert their own ethnic and cultural identities and group interests with full force. Any governmental, academic, religious, or media authority which tries to prevent it is clearly unworthy of respect and obedience.


Jehayzuss.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:43 am 
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Santa wrote:
pontifex wrote:
America's 'smartest man' on identity politics https://www.quora.com/What-is-Chris-Lan ... y-politics :

Quote:
My view on identity politics is that it can be justified only if everyone of any ethnicity is entitled to participate, in which case it is necessary for all (because failing to assert it, as when White people of European ancestry fail to assert it lest they be branded as “racists”, means leaving oneself and one’s group defenseless against competition for resources and opportunity). Alternatively, lest any group be denied its identity while others assert their own, group identity must be equitably denied to everyone.

Human identity is stratified, and thus has both individual and group levels. Accordingly, we can (and sometimes must) reason in terms of group identity. But when group self-identification is officially granted to some groups yet denied to others against which they compete, this can only result in imbalance and injustice. For example, when some overpopulating groups which have overtaxed their own resources by reproductive incontinence and homegrown oligarchy are allowed to migrate into the sovereign territories of worldwide ethnic minorities - e.g., people of European descent - and enjoy special “oppressed” status whereby they reap special benefits such as free food, free housing, free education, free healthcare, affirmative action, reproductive subsidies, and special treatment under the law, and are even credited with moral superiority due to their alleged “oppression”, this can result in the destruction of the national, cultural, and ethnic identity of the hosts, leading ultimately to their extinction. Incoming groups which assert their own collective identities while denying their hosts any reciprocal right of political group cohesion thus amount to noxious, invasive, and ultimately lethal socioeconomic parasites. Obviously, any governmental authority which enforces or encourages such asymmetry - e.g., the European Union - is illegitimate.

Bear in mind that once we cease to treat individuals as individuals per se, thus allowing members of their respective groups to assert their ethnic, cultural, or religious (etc.) identities against their “oppressors”, their group properties and statistics are automatically opened to scrutiny and comparative analysis. For example, if after several generations of special treatment in the educational sphere (compulsory school integration, special programs, modifications of educational procedure, racially defined college admission preferences, etc.), a particular “oppressed” group fails as a whole to outgrow these measures, its members are no longer entitled to exemption from objective characterization in terms of associated group statistics; if one wants to enjoy the social benefits attending ethically loaded group-defined properties like “belonging to an oppressed group”, one must submit to rational policies formed on the basis of not just individual assessment, but empirically confirmed group-defined properties such as “belonging to a group exhibiting a relatively low mean IQ and a tendency to violently disrupt the educational environment”. Continuing to pursue racially parameterized measures of human worth and achievement can only lead to personal injustice, social degradation, and biological degeneration (because such measures inevitably supplant any rational form of social, economic, and reproductive selection).

In short, identity politics should either be shut down immediately, or the majority populations of Europe and North America should be encouraged to assert their own ethnic and cultural identities and group interests with full force. Any governmental, academic, religious, or media authority which tries to prevent it is clearly unworthy of respect and obedience.


Jehayzuss.


I must admit to not fully understanding that, but what I did understand seems totally reasonable to me.

Regarding the last sentence, I find it worrisome that in Sweden, asserting your "Swedishness" is considered "racist" and inappropriate, yet the same people go out of their way to support women walking around in Sweden wearing full burqas on account of accepting a foreign culture. Surely same rules apply? Regarding the "Swedishness", one example is a small pendant I have which I bought at a Viking museum, it's a replica of Mjölnir (Thor's hammer) that was found in a Viking grave. I wore it happily for months until people started telling me "that's racist, you shouldn't wear it". Pretty sad I think. I thought it was cool AF.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:48 am 
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Mog The Almighty wrote:
Santa wrote:
pontifex wrote:
America's 'smartest man' on identity politics https://www.quora.com/What-is-Chris-Lan ... y-politics :

Quote:
My view on identity politics is that it can be justified only if everyone of any ethnicity is entitled to participate, in which case it is necessary for all (because failing to assert it, as when White people of European ancestry fail to assert it lest they be branded as “racists”, means leaving oneself and one’s group defenseless against competition for resources and opportunity). Alternatively, lest any group be denied its identity while others assert their own, group identity must be equitably denied to everyone.

Human identity is stratified, and thus has both individual and group levels. Accordingly, we can (and sometimes must) reason in terms of group identity. But when group self-identification is officially granted to some groups yet denied to others against which they compete, this can only result in imbalance and injustice. For example, when some overpopulating groups which have overtaxed their own resources by reproductive incontinence and homegrown oligarchy are allowed to migrate into the sovereign territories of worldwide ethnic minorities - e.g., people of European descent - and enjoy special “oppressed” status whereby they reap special benefits such as free food, free housing, free education, free healthcare, affirmative action, reproductive subsidies, and special treatment under the law, and are even credited with moral superiority due to their alleged “oppression”, this can result in the destruction of the national, cultural, and ethnic identity of the hosts, leading ultimately to their extinction. Incoming groups which assert their own collective identities while denying their hosts any reciprocal right of political group cohesion thus amount to noxious, invasive, and ultimately lethal socioeconomic parasites. Obviously, any governmental authority which enforces or encourages such asymmetry - e.g., the European Union - is illegitimate.

Bear in mind that once we cease to treat individuals as individuals per se, thus allowing members of their respective groups to assert their ethnic, cultural, or religious (etc.) identities against their “oppressors”, their group properties and statistics are automatically opened to scrutiny and comparative analysis. For example, if after several generations of special treatment in the educational sphere (compulsory school integration, special programs, modifications of educational procedure, racially defined college admission preferences, etc.), a particular “oppressed” group fails as a whole to outgrow these measures, its members are no longer entitled to exemption from objective characterization in terms of associated group statistics; if one wants to enjoy the social benefits attending ethically loaded group-defined properties like “belonging to an oppressed group”, one must submit to rational policies formed on the basis of not just individual assessment, but empirically confirmed group-defined properties such as “belonging to a group exhibiting a relatively low mean IQ and a tendency to violently disrupt the educational environment”. Continuing to pursue racially parameterized measures of human worth and achievement can only lead to personal injustice, social degradation, and biological degeneration (because such measures inevitably supplant any rational form of social, economic, and reproductive selection).

In short, identity politics should either be shut down immediately, or the majority populations of Europe and North America should be encouraged to assert their own ethnic and cultural identities and group interests with full force. Any governmental, academic, religious, or media authority which tries to prevent it is clearly unworthy of respect and obedience.


Jehayzuss.


I must admit to not fully understanding that, but what I did understand seems totally reasonable to me.

Regarding the last sentence, I find it worrisome that in Sweden, asserting your "Swedishness" is considered "racist" and inappropriate, yet the same people go out of their way to support women walking around in Sweden wearing full burqas on account of accepting a foreign culture. Surely same rules apply? Regarding the "Swedishness", one example is a small pendant I have which I bought at a Viking museum, it's a replica of Mjölnir (Thor's hammer) that was found in a Viking grave. I wore it happily for months until people started telling me "that's racist, you shouldn't wear it". Pretty sad I think. I thought it was cool AF.


Reminds me of something in the news today.

Image

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44220574


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:00 am 
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Bindi wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Santa wrote:
pontifex wrote:
America's 'smartest man' on identity politics https://www.quora.com/What-is-Chris-Lan ... y-politics :

Quote:
My view on identity politics is that it can be justified only if everyone of any ethnicity is entitled to participate, in which case it is necessary for all (because failing to assert it, as when White people of European ancestry fail to assert it lest they be branded as “racists”, means leaving oneself and one’s group defenseless against competition for resources and opportunity). Alternatively, lest any group be denied its identity while others assert their own, group identity must be equitably denied to everyone.

Human identity is stratified, and thus has both individual and group levels. Accordingly, we can (and sometimes must) reason in terms of group identity. But when group self-identification is officially granted to some groups yet denied to others against which they compete, this can only result in imbalance and injustice. For example, when some overpopulating groups which have overtaxed their own resources by reproductive incontinence and homegrown oligarchy are allowed to migrate into the sovereign territories of worldwide ethnic minorities - e.g., people of European descent - and enjoy special “oppressed” status whereby they reap special benefits such as free food, free housing, free education, free healthcare, affirmative action, reproductive subsidies, and special treatment under the law, and are even credited with moral superiority due to their alleged “oppression”, this can result in the destruction of the national, cultural, and ethnic identity of the hosts, leading ultimately to their extinction. Incoming groups which assert their own collective identities while denying their hosts any reciprocal right of political group cohesion thus amount to noxious, invasive, and ultimately lethal socioeconomic parasites. Obviously, any governmental authority which enforces or encourages such asymmetry - e.g., the European Union - is illegitimate.

Bear in mind that once we cease to treat individuals as individuals per se, thus allowing members of their respective groups to assert their ethnic, cultural, or religious (etc.) identities against their “oppressors”, their group properties and statistics are automatically opened to scrutiny and comparative analysis. For example, if after several generations of special treatment in the educational sphere (compulsory school integration, special programs, modifications of educational procedure, racially defined college admission preferences, etc.), a particular “oppressed” group fails as a whole to outgrow these measures, its members are no longer entitled to exemption from objective characterization in terms of associated group statistics; if one wants to enjoy the social benefits attending ethically loaded group-defined properties like “belonging to an oppressed group”, one must submit to rational policies formed on the basis of not just individual assessment, but empirically confirmed group-defined properties such as “belonging to a group exhibiting a relatively low mean IQ and a tendency to violently disrupt the educational environment”. Continuing to pursue racially parameterized measures of human worth and achievement can only lead to personal injustice, social degradation, and biological degeneration (because such measures inevitably supplant any rational form of social, economic, and reproductive selection).

In short, identity politics should either be shut down immediately, or the majority populations of Europe and North America should be encouraged to assert their own ethnic and cultural identities and group interests with full force. Any governmental, academic, religious, or media authority which tries to prevent it is clearly unworthy of respect and obedience.


Jehayzuss.


I must admit to not fully understanding that, but what I did understand seems totally reasonable to me.

Regarding the last sentence, I find it worrisome that in Sweden, asserting your "Swedishness" is considered "racist" and inappropriate, yet the same people go out of their way to support women walking around in Sweden wearing full burqas on account of accepting a foreign culture. Surely same rules apply? Regarding the "Swedishness", one example is a small pendant I have which I bought at a Viking museum, it's a replica of Mjölnir (Thor's hammer) that was found in a Viking grave. I wore it happily for months until people started telling me "that's racist, you shouldn't wear it". Pretty sad I think. I thought it was cool AF.


Reminds me of something in the news today.

Image

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44220574


Ugh. Don't get me started. "Cultural appropriation" is such bullshit. Maoris should be happy that people want to adopt their culture. She's married to a Maori man, she wants to adopt his culture. She thinks it's cool. "No, that's only for our racial group". GTFO. If you're not mocking another culture, then it's fine. F-ck me, even if you are mocking another culture it's fine (although be prepared for a righteous punch to the face if you do).

I've heard of much worse examples than that though. Like people complaing about white girls wearing loop-earings because it's "cultural appropriation". Probably the dumbest one was some bunch of knob-jockey SJW's protesting about cultural appropriation because some white people were having a Japaense tea party in kimonos and shit as part of some festival or something (I can't remember exactly). When the Japanese were actually asked about it, they said they thought it was fantastic that western people wanted to adopt and share their culture.

It genuinely worries me how f-cking stupid people are and where it's going to lead western society over the next century.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:29 am 
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Mog The Almighty wrote:
Regarding the "Swedishness", one example is a small pendant I have which I bought at a Viking museum, it's a replica of Mjölnir (Thor's hammer) that was found in a Viking grave. I wore it happily for months until people started telling me "that's racist, you shouldn't wear it". Pretty sad I think. I thought it was cool AF.


That is fcked in the head.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:34 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Regarding the "Swedishness", one example is a small pendant I have which I bought at a Viking museum, it's a replica of Mjölnir (Thor's hammer) that was found in a Viking grave. I wore it happily for months until people started telling me "that's racist, you shouldn't wear it". Pretty sad I think. I thought it was cool AF.


That is fcked in the head.


I suspect there may be a few embellishments to that particular story.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:37 am 
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Which groupuscule has chosen the Thor's hammer as an emblem?


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:41 am 
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Bindi wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Regarding the "Swedishness", one example is a small pendant I have which I bought at a Viking museum, it's a replica of Mjölnir (Thor's hammer) that was found in a Viking grave. I wore it happily for months until people started telling me "that's racist, you shouldn't wear it". Pretty sad I think. I thought it was cool AF.


That is fcked in the head.


I suspect there may be a few embellishments to that particular story.


He didn't mention the horned helmet, battle axe and bear skin suit he turned up to work in as well?


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:45 am 
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Bindi wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Regarding the "Swedishness", one example is a small pendant I have which I bought at a Viking museum, it's a replica of Mjölnir (Thor's hammer) that was found in a Viking grave. I wore it happily for months until people started telling me "that's racist, you shouldn't wear it". Pretty sad I think. I thought it was cool AF.


That is fcked in the head.


I suspect there may be a few embellishments to that particular story.


Such as what :?:


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:46 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Bindi wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Regarding the "Swedishness", one example is a small pendant I have which I bought at a Viking museum, it's a replica of Mjölnir (Thor's hammer) that was found in a Viking grave. I wore it happily for months until people started telling me "that's racist, you shouldn't wear it". Pretty sad I think. I thought it was cool AF.


That is fcked in the head.


I suspect there may be a few embellishments to that particular story.


He didn't mention the horned helmet, battle axe and bear skin suit he turned up to work in as well?


Vikings never wore horned helmets. It's a myth. But ... even if I did do that, it might be batshit, but it's not "racist".


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:57 am 
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Yeah, accusations of cultural appropriation feel to me like a child in the midst of a tantrum counter-productively smashing their own toys.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:07 pm 
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Tschussie wrote:
Yeah, accusations of cultural appropriation feel to me like a child in the midst of a tantrum counter-productively smashing their own toys.


That's a bit unfair. I don't have much truck with it as a concept but there is occasionally a point and some substance to the criticism.

For indigenes, for example, it is the last thing to go in a longer process of more substantial appropriations.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:10 pm 
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Santa wrote:
Tschussie wrote:
Yeah, accusations of cultural appropriation feel to me like a child in the midst of a tantrum counter-productively smashing their own toys.


That's a bit unfair. I don't have much truck with it as a concept but there is occasionally a point and some substance to the criticism.

For indigenes, for example, it is the last thing to go in a longer process of more substantial appropriations.

Fair. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:13 pm 
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Santa wrote:
Tschussie wrote:
Yeah, accusations of cultural appropriation feel to me like a child in the midst of a tantrum counter-productively smashing their own toys.


That's a bit unfair. I don't have much truck with it as a concept but there is occasionally a point and some substance to the criticism.

For indigenes, for example, it is the last thing to go in a longer process of more substantial appropriations.


Or when those appropriations are trivialised and / or mocked as well. See the famous Haka incident at Auckland University.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:22 pm 
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La soule wrote:
Which groupuscule has chosen the Thor's hammer as an emblem?


Since you Alt right edgy types can answer questions, I had to go on google my self. Pricks.

Here it is:

Quote:
Although its traditional origins are non-racist, and although most Asatruers today are not racist, the Thor's Hammer symbol has been appropriated by neo-Nazis and other white supremacists, especially those who practice racist or white supremacist versions of neo-Norse beliefs under the guise of Odinism or Wotanism. White supremacists will often even create racist versions of the Thor's Hammer, incorporating swastikas or other hate symbols into the decoration.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:23 pm 
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Man In Black wrote:
Santa wrote:
Tschussie wrote:
Yeah, accusations of cultural appropriation feel to me like a child in the midst of a tantrum counter-productively smashing their own toys.


That's a bit unfair. I don't have much truck with it as a concept but there is occasionally a point and some substance to the criticism.

For indigenes, for example, it is the last thing to go in a longer process of more substantial appropriations.


As the pre-eminent Māori of the bored, I wanted to ask your opinion of the Pakeha woman who got a moko tattoo. She did it sincerely, so does that make it ok? Married to a Māori guy too. Bit of a minefield this stuff.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12057551


Kia ora e hoa.

I'm not too fussed on this one. I doubt that it will catch on. She looks strange and may be a bit mental which is probably punishment enough. I mean why would she get one?

So say the Maori people.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:26 pm 
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Haven't those white supremacist types incorporated some Celtic (in the Irish sense) symbols too?


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:27 pm 
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Tschussie wrote:
Haven't those white supremacist types incorporated some Celtic (in the Irish sense) symbols too?


And trousers. They wear trousers so...


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:29 pm 
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Santa wrote:
Tschussie wrote:
Haven't those white supremacist types incorporated some Celtic (in the Irish sense) symbols too?


And trousers. They wear trousers so...


Interesting


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Santa wrote:
Tschussie wrote:
Haven't those white supremacist types incorporated some Celtic (in the Irish sense) symbols too?


And trousers. They wear trousers so...

Bit hot right now but once the weather turns I will reclaim these symbols in the name of love.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:38 pm 
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I wear dreadlocks on my bollocks but I would never dream of getting them out on the tube. Too many Guardian readers.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:52 pm 
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La soule wrote:
La soule wrote:
Which groupuscule has chosen the Thor's hammer as an emblem?


Since you Alt right edgy types can answer questions, I had to go on google my self. Pricks.

Here it is:

Quote:
Although its traditional origins are non-racist, and although most Asatruers today are not racist, the Thor's Hammer symbol has been appropriated by neo-Nazis and other white supremacists, especially those who practice racist or white supremacist versions of neo-Norse beliefs under the guise of Odinism or Wotanism. White supremacists will often even create racist versions of the Thor's Hammer, incorporating swastikas or other hate symbols into the decoration.


Well, this is the thing ... are they actually racist?

There is definitely a weird group that "pretends" to worship the old gods and tries to live their life according to those paganish beliefs, and they are proud of their ancestry. It's all about respect,honour, being powerful, pride in yourself and all that. But like I said, anything that is "proud of being Swedish" is considered racist here. So people who absolutely revel in their Swedishness and their Swedish ancestary are obviously "super racists", right? Well, maybe. But also maybe not.

Having said that, there are real racists in Sweden, just like there is everywhere. And I'm sure there is some of those "Odinism" type guys who are actually really racist. But I don't think it's the majority. I think mostly they're just weirdos.

I've listened a little bit to this guy, "The Golden One". Disclaimer: I am definitely not a right-wing nationalist, I've just listened to some of his videos more out of a kind of bizarre fascination. He's not stupid but he's pretty odd and he's a super-nationalist, Old-Gods, "modern Viking" type guy and he constantly gets called a racist by the Swedish media, etc. The thing is, I haven't actually heard him express any genuinely racist view. Which doesn't mean he hasn't or doesn't. It just means if he has, I haven't yet heard it. So is this what they're talking about when they say "white supremacist"? I dunno. Maybe. Maybe he is. He's definitely "different".

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheLatsbrah

(for size)
Spoiler: show
Image


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Mog The Almighty wrote:


Quote:
Description
This is a channel dedicated to how glorious and magnificent I am.


:lol: :lol: :lol:
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:59 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:


Quote:
Description
This is a channel dedicated to how glorious and magnificent I am.


:lol: :lol: :lol:
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

:lol:

He's pretty funny with his weird narcissism. He is serious in that you should strive to be someone who you can be proud of, and if you achieve that, then there's nothing wrong with being proud of what you made of yourself. But all its also obviously a bit tongue-in-cheek.

To be fair to him, he is pretty magnificent. He reckons he's never taken steroids. Not sure if I believe that, but he also really doesn't come across like a liar. He comes across as the type of guy who, if he did roid up, would just say it and encourage it and say it's great and magnificent to enhance your body by any means necessary.

Image


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:02 pm 
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Mog The Almighty wrote:
La soule wrote:
La soule wrote:
Which groupuscule has chosen the Thor's hammer as an emblem?


Since you Alt right edgy types can answer questions, I had to go on google my self. Pricks.

Here it is:

Quote:
Although its traditional origins are non-racist, and although most Asatruers today are not racist, the Thor's Hammer symbol has been appropriated by neo-Nazis and other white supremacists, especially those who practice racist or white supremacist versions of neo-Norse beliefs under the guise of Odinism or Wotanism. White supremacists will often even create racist versions of the Thor's Hammer, incorporating swastikas or other hate symbols into the decoration.


Well, this is the thing ... are they actually racist?

There is definitely a weird group that "pretends" to worship the old gods and tries to live their life according to those paganish beliefs, and they are proud of their ancestry. It's all about respect,honour, being powerful, pride in yourself and all that. But like I said, anything that is "proud of being Swedish" is considered racist here. So people who absolutely revel in their Swedishness and their Swedish ancestary are obviously "super racists", right? Well, maybe. But also maybe not.

Having said that, there are real racists in Sweden, just like there is everywhere. And I'm sure there is some of those "Odinism" type guys who are actually really racist. But I don't think it's the majority. I think mostly they're just weirdos.

I've listened a little bit to this guy, "The Golden One". Disclaimer: I am definitely not a right-wing nationalist, I've just listened to some of his videos more out of a kind of bizarre fascination. He's not stupid but he's pretty odd and he's a super-nationalist, Old-Gods, "modern Viking" type guy and he constantly gets called a racist by the Swedish media, etc. The thing is, I haven't actually heard him express any genuinely racist view. Which doesn't mean he hasn't or doesn't. It just means if he has, I haven't yet heard it. So is this what they're talking about when they say "white supremacist"? I dunno. Maybe. Maybe he is. He's definitely "different".

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheLatsbrah

(for size)
Spoiler: show
Image


I don't know. That's why I asked the question. The symbol, according to some random link on google, appears to have been adopted by racist/supremacist groups.

As mentioned by Tschussie, the same appropriation of symbols has happened in other locations. Which is what those Swedes were most likely trying to tell you.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:07 pm 
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Cultural appropriation can be a thing. A funny example is the American appropriation of Ugg boots, which then made them far more popular in Australia. Meanwhile, an American company, Ugg Australia TM, sued traditional Ugg boot manufacturers in Australia over their use of the word Ugg, which they had trademarked. That's a pretty trivial, but also fairly brazen example of how cultural appropriation can be less than a nice form of flattery. That said, the comment by Langan would equally apply in this sphere. If European cultural products were to be defended against appropriators from other cultures, then we'd be in all kinds of funny, annoying trouble.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:09 pm 
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La soule wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
La soule wrote:
La soule wrote:
Which groupuscule has chosen the Thor's hammer as an emblem?


Since you Alt right edgy types can answer questions, I had to go on google my self. Pricks.

Here it is:

Quote:
Although its traditional origins are non-racist, and although most Asatruers today are not racist, the Thor's Hammer symbol has been appropriated by neo-Nazis and other white supremacists, especially those who practice racist or white supremacist versions of neo-Norse beliefs under the guise of Odinism or Wotanism. White supremacists will often even create racist versions of the Thor's Hammer, incorporating swastikas or other hate symbols into the decoration.


Well, this is the thing ... are they actually racist?

There is definitely a weird group that "pretends" to worship the old gods and tries to live their life according to those paganish beliefs, and they are proud of their ancestry. It's all about respect,honour, being powerful, pride in yourself and all that. But like I said, anything that is "proud of being Swedish" is considered racist here. So people who absolutely revel in their Swedishness and their Swedish ancestary are obviously "super racists", right? Well, maybe. But also maybe not.

Having said that, there are real racists in Sweden, just like there is everywhere. And I'm sure there is some of those "Odinism" type guys who are actually really racist. But I don't think it's the majority. I think mostly they're just weirdos.

I've listened a little bit to this guy, "The Golden One". Disclaimer: I am definitely not a right-wing nationalist, I've just listened to some of his videos more out of a kind of bizarre fascination. He's not stupid but he's pretty odd and he's a super-nationalist, Old-Gods, "modern Viking" type guy and he constantly gets called a racist by the Swedish media, etc. The thing is, I haven't actually heard him express any genuinely racist view. Which doesn't mean he hasn't or doesn't. It just means if he has, I haven't yet heard it. So is this what they're talking about when they say "white supremacist"? I dunno. Maybe. Maybe he is. He's definitely "different".

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheLatsbrah

(for size)
Spoiler: show
Image


I don't know. That's why I asked the question. The symbol, according to some random link on google, appear to have been adopted by racist/supremacist groups.

As mentioned by Tschussie, the same appropriation of symbols has happened in other locations. Which what those Swedes were most likely trying to tell you.


Well ... as I said, I think you're "sort of right". My question is only are they really "racist/supremacist groups", or is that just a label that's been unfairly applied? I also don't know the answer.

But yes, it's been adopted by those "worship the old gods" modern-pagan type guys, and their whole gig is making yourself "glorious and magnificent" in the eyes of the gods and being proud of your nation and your ancestary and all that. It's definitely "nationalist", and weird. They're unique humans for sure. They've adopted all the old pagan symbols and stuff. It's part of their "religion". But does that make them racist?

I hung a small Swedish flag in the window of my apartment when I first arrived here too, and was promptly warned that was extremely racist and to take it down (I moved it inside). So if hanging a flag is racist, you can imagine what being a weirdo ancestor-worshipping nationalist makes you in the eyes of the very socially progressive population of "normal people" in Sweden.


Last edited by Mog The Almighty on Thu May 24, 2018 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:10 pm 
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I have a Norse tattoo I got in the 90s, when Celtic tatts were the thing. Yes, I was a contrarian back then, too (and also underage). A couple of days ago, a mate saw it for the first time. He asked why I had a Nazi tattoo. I fully expected this to start happening, so I'm now careful where I go swimming around here (a t-shirt hides it).


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:22 pm 
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The Neo-Nazi clothing label of choice in Germany, Thor Steiner, changed their logo to effectively the Norwegian flag after a courtcase a few years ago. There's some outdoor clothing brand which has used it much longer (from Norway) Nama something. Does that make people who wear Nama something clothes Nazis? Interesting tidbit - Thor Steiner went bankrupt and was bought by the Qatari royal family.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:22 pm 
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Posts: 9083
Mog The Almighty wrote:
La soule wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
La soule wrote:
La soule wrote:
Which groupuscule has chosen the Thor's hammer as an emblem?


Since you Alt right edgy types can answer questions, I had to go on google my self. Pricks.

Here it is:

Quote:
Although its traditional origins are non-racist, and although most Asatruers today are not racist, the Thor's Hammer symbol has been appropriated by neo-Nazis and other white supremacists, especially those who practice racist or white supremacist versions of neo-Norse beliefs under the guise of Odinism or Wotanism. White supremacists will often even create racist versions of the Thor's Hammer, incorporating swastikas or other hate symbols into the decoration.


Well, this is the thing ... are they actually racist?

There is definitely a weird group that "pretends" to worship the old gods and tries to live their life according to those paganish beliefs, and they are proud of their ancestry. It's all about respect,honour, being powerful, pride in yourself and all that. But like I said, anything that is "proud of being Swedish" is considered racist here. So people who absolutely revel in their Swedishness and their Swedish ancestary are obviously "super racists", right? Well, maybe. But also maybe not.

Having said that, there are real racists in Sweden, just like there is everywhere. And I'm sure there is some of those "Odinism" type guys who are actually really racist. But I don't think it's the majority. I think mostly they're just weirdos.

I've listened a little bit to this guy, "The Golden One". Disclaimer: I am definitely not a right-wing nationalist, I've just listened to some of his videos more out of a kind of bizarre fascination. He's not stupid but he's pretty odd and he's a super-nationalist, Old-Gods, "modern Viking" type guy and he constantly gets called a racist by the Swedish media, etc. The thing is, I haven't actually heard him express any genuinely racist view. Which doesn't mean he hasn't or doesn't. It just means if he has, I haven't yet heard it. So is this what they're talking about when they say "white supremacist"? I dunno. Maybe. Maybe he is. He's definitely "different".

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheLatsbrah

(for size)
Spoiler: show
Image


I don't know. That's why I asked the question. The symbol, according to some random link on google, appear to have been adopted by racist/supremacist groups.

As mentioned by Tschussie, the same appropriation of symbols has happened in other locations. Which what those Swedes were most likely trying to tell you.


Well ... as I said, I think you're "sort of right". My question is only are they really "racist/supremacist groups", or is that just a label that's been unfairly applied? I also don't know the answer.

But yes, it's been adopted by those "worship the old gods" modern-pagan type guys, and their whole gig is making yourself "glorious and magnificent" in the eyes of the gods and being proud of your nation and your ancestary and all that. It's definitely "nationalist", and weird. They're unique humans for sure. They've adopted all the old pagan symbols and stuff. It's part of their "religion". But does that make them racist?

I hung a small Swedish flag in the window of my apartment when I first arrived here too, and was promptly warned that was extremely racist and to take it down (I moved it inside). So if hanging a flag is racist, you can imagine what being a weirdo ancestor-worshipping nationalist makes you in the eyes of the very socially progressive population of "normal people" in Sweden.


I am really sorry for not telling you what you want to hear.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:25 pm 
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http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 87746.html
Quote:
Neo-Nazi Fashion: Thor Steinar and the Changing Look of the German Far Right
SPIEGEL ONLINE, Hamburg, Germany
7-9 minutes
November 20, 2008 10:23 AM

Lilian Engelmann never thought she would see neo-Nazis on her block. The young art curator works in a gallery in the trendy district of Mitte, a neighborhood in central Berlin. Her neighbors include an international cinema, designer hat store, Vietnamese restaurant and -- as of last February -- a store called Tönsberg, which sells clothing popular among right-wing extremists.

"By coming here, the neo-Nazis tried to come into the center of society," Engelmann told SPIEGEL ONLINE. Once local residents and shopowners learned that Tönsberg planned to sell the clothing brand Thor Steinar, they organized against the store. The group led by Engelmann and other shopowners called itself the "Mitte Initiative Against the Far Right," and mounted regular protests.

Neo-Nazis are a fringe group in Germany, where Holocaust denial, praise of Adolf Hitler and the display of Nazi symbols are all illegal. The Office for the Protection of the Constitution, the government's domestic intelligence agency, estimates there are about 40,000 active members of the German far right. The agency can shut down Kameradschaften, gangs or brotherhoods which tend to be violent, but many other groups in the neo-Nazi scene often fly under the legal radar -- like rock bands with suggestive lyrics or stylish clothing companies with coded symbols. As long as they don't display swastikas or explicitly support Hitler or his party, these groups are left alone.

Do These Sneakers Make Me Look Neo-Nazi?

Thor Steinar goods were banned in 2004 because of the logo's similarity to symbols worn by SS officers. But the company has rebranded, and its new look is legal. This presents a dilemma for Engelmann's group. Symbols and speech not obviously related to Nazism are protected by German law. So instead of trying to run the store out, her group decided to educate passersby about Tönsberg.

The group won permission from authorities in Mitte to set up a public display detailing the history of the Holocaust, the recent far right scene and neo-Nazi symbols and culture. Three tall boxes plastered with dossiers dot Rosa-Luxemburg Street in Berlin, where Engelmann's gallery stands near Tönsberg.

"We've had people come in and ask, 'If I buy these sneakers, are they sending neo-Nazi signals?'" said Engelmann. "People have a better idea of what kind of store it is."

"People" includes passersby, but also landlords. On Oct. 14, a Berlin court ruled that Tönsberg's landlord was allowed to kick the store out because Tönsberg had failed to fully disclose what types of products it would sell. A similar court decision on Oct. 28 will clear out a store selling Thor Steinar clothing in Magdeburg, a city in eastern Germany. A Hamburg store shut down in early October after protests. Three further stores in Germany sell Thor Steinar goods, but a legal decision on one of them, in Leipzig, is pending.

The brand also stirred a recent controversy in Berlin after a plainclothes policeman wore a Thor Steinar shirt while on duty at a demonstration to mark the anniversary of Kristallnacht -- the Nazi-orchestrated pogroms that swept Germany on November 9, 1938. Dieter Glietsch, head of police in Berlin, said ignorance of the brand was not an excuse. "That a police officer walks around wearing Thor Steinar clothes during the anniversary of the pogrom calls for a thorough investigation," he told the Tagesspiegel newspaper. "It is not as if in Berlin people don't know what the label stands for."

Still, the far right isn't as recognizable as it used to be. Only old-school neo-Nazis shave their heads and tie up their black boots with white laces. Among the younger crowd, a new look is in. Even Engelmann describes Thor Steinar designs as "stylish and fitted," and sometimes its logos are all that set it apart from other casual sportswear.

Mixed Messages

Many of the symbols are straightforward. On one Thor Steinar T-shirt, the word kontaktfreudig is splashed across red splotches that look like spatters of blood. The word could be translated as "outgoing," or more literally, "happy to make contact." The display on Rosa-Luxemburg Street includes clothing with common symbols like an eagle for German pride, or "18" and "88" for "Adolf Hitler" and "Heil Hitler" -- numbers freighted with meaning because of the position of the initials in the alphabet.

Some mainstream clothing companies also hold significance for neo-Nazis. Shirts from the British company Lonsdale, covered in jackets unzipped to display the "NS" -- for National Socialism -- have a meaning in Germany that would go unnoticed in Britain or the United States. The German far right likes the "N" on New Balance shoes for the same reason.

But Thor Steinar is hardly a mainstream brand appropriated by a few extreme customers. The German company "is demonstrably for the scene, by the scene," said Esther Lehnert at the Mobile Counseling Team Berlin, a non-profit that identifies trends in the German far right. Part of Lehnert's job is to instruct teachers in how to identify and reach out to students who may become involved in neo-Nazism. She describes an alarming uptick in youth participation in what's become a "trendy culture."

"They are getting harder to spot," she said, taking a picture out of a folder showing far-right and far-left activists facing off at a march. Both groups wore Che Guevara T-shirts and checked scarves -- long a leftist symbol of solidarity with Palestinians. But the far right co-opted both symbols, she explained, just as neo-Nazis have taken to wearing all black, which used to be an anarchist fashion statement.

Guevara may be the strangest appropriation of all. Neo-Nazis wear his image but don't hesitate to beat up people who look different -- including Latin Americans.

'It's Just a Fashion Label'

Neo-Nazis have been a long-term embarrassment for the German government, which had to beef up security during the 2006 World Cup because of safety concerns for non-white spectators and players. And Germany's domestic intelligence agency describes Thor Steinar as "an identifying mark for right-wing extremists." So why not simply shut the company down?

"It's just a fashion label," a spokesperson for the Office for the Protection of the Constitution told SPIEGEL ONLINE. "We are only watching which symbols they use, to make sure they are not illegal."

The agency has reason to be cautious after its implication in a disastrous effort to outlaw the far right National Democratic Party (NPD) in 2003. Germany's highest court dismissed the case after finding out that important witnesses for the prosecution -- including the NPD head for the state of North Rhine-Westphalia -- worked as informants for the agency. The Federal Constitutional Court ruled that it couldn't ban a party whose policies might have been cast, in part, by government agents.

So groups like Engelmann's are left the task of combating the scene on the local level, and making sure the public knows what neo-Nazis are doing. Thor Steinar has been kicked out of a number of locations, but there is no telling where they will crop up next.

"You just hope people know what is going on and have (local authorities) who are interested in supporting them like we had," said Engelmann. "Otherwise these people can just move right in, and no one says a word."


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:27 pm 
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La soule wrote:
As mentioned by Tschussie, the same appropriation of symbols has happened in other locations. Which is what those Swedes were most likely trying to tell you.

I cannot speak for Sweden but in Ireland any connection that the Celtic Cross may have to white supremacy in other parts of the world is not given a second thought (not given a first thought might be more accurate).

Image


Last edited by Tschussie on Thu May 24, 2018 1:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:28 pm 
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La soule wrote:
I am really sorry for not telling you what you want to hear.


Erm ... wot?

Did you think we were having some kind of argument? Sorry, I didn't realize.

I was just saying it's bizarre that Swedes will go out of their way to accomodate other - very questionable - cultures, but revelling in their own is considered "racist and white supremist".

I thought we were basically agreeing.


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