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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:27 am 
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Gordon Bennett wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
Good to see that the Amazon site will be blocked to Kiwi users very soon. They don;'t want to collect the GST on purchases from Kiwis. Don't care - Kiwi retailers need to be protected (Trump style) and Amazon can get stuffed.

They have to collect for Oz too but there they are opening a store and website for Oz users.


Ha. What rot. If Kiwi retailers weren't massively overcharging for stuff - including Kiwi online retailers - then overseas purchases wouldn't be a thing.

This will do Kiwi retailers more harm in the long run. As soon as Amazon open a branch here, they're f**ked.

I don't agree with deadduck on much, but when goods can be purchased for half the price (even with the GST added on) from overseas, there's something wrong. The problem with the NZ retail sector is the lack of competition. This is too small a market to have dozens of players in the same space, so the consumer gets rorted. And the people lose out the most are at the poorer end. The well-to-do will just pick up the cheaper goods on their next overseas jaunt or use the mail-proxy service that NZ Post (and others) already offer.


I don't blame NZ retailers. They are the meat in the sandwich. Goods shipped into NZ are massively overpriced by the manufacturers and distributors. The poor old retailers are just trying to make a buck on already over priced goods. I've spoken with local retailers and the prices I'm able to get direct from overseas online sellers are less than they have to pay to ship the goods through the licensed distributors. It's a rort alright but the retailers are not to blame.

Who can ever forget those two clowns from Adidas trying to explain why you can buy an All Black jersey in the US for about half the price it costs in NZ. :lol:


There are definitely retailers in the space that you mention, but there are also plenty of retailers out there who push the margins beyond where they need to be - I've had to work with some in the past. The internet trading age has come as quite a shock to them. At the end of the day, regardless, the consumer is the one that suffers - and I don't understand why enzedder would be delighted with that outcome.



No one is doing anything wrong or rorting everyone, it's just the business model has been superseded.

There is no reason to pay CBD rents for storing retail goods on shelves and then to pay staff to tell you which shelf to go to and ring it up for you.

There is a sound logic to charging a consumption tax (GST), but in the modern world it carries tricky collection and enforcement costs. I think we should think about using other models for this reason.

Extracting more GST out of New Zealand consumers just means we can purchase fewer goods and we have less money left over to spend on local services.

If my books, clothes, and boardgames cost more from Amazon then I'm just going to spend the same amount less on coffee, burgers, craft beer and NZ made movies. This is:

- revenue neutral for the NZ gov
- revenue loss for local NZ business
- quality of life loss for NZ consumers


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:39 am 
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I get books from the book depository as I prefer reading from paper to on a device. I can get just about anything I want easily and get it delivered you door from the UK for about a quarter to the third of what it would cost in a book store here IF, and it's a big if, I can find it here at all.

I don't mind paying GST on it, but it won't get me into an NZ bookstore. And for those less fortunate than myself it probably just means buying fewer books or moving to an electronic format.

Books are just one easy example of where we seem to pay significantly more in NZ than they door in other parts of the world. My colleagues from other parts of the world love to give other examples.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:59 am 
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I think NZ consumers are being 'gouged' for price based on a couple of observations I made last year... two identical items I use in Aus selling at twice the retail price in NZ.

That's gouging. I'm sure there's more of it... and I don't agree with the argument that a small market needs higher prices to sustain it. Small items, easily packed and shipped are a relatively low cost product to sell. Like Aus, the NZ retail sector needs a wake up call to alert it to the changed habits of shoppers.

As for taxing imports... why not shift the administration point for the transaction? Take that onerous task out of the seller's hands and apply it to the point of sale, it's a consumption tax after all. You'd do that by having every financial institution apply the charge and pass it on to govt. You could code in any tax free conditions for the consumer to apply.

We live in a world of electronic commerce. It shouldn't be hard to do.

I'd like to see that expanded actually, and made the main tax revenue collection point... every transaction, every one of them, paying a flat rate straight to govt. Can't avoid that, shifting funds is a transaction.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:45 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
I think NZ consumers are being 'gouged' for price based on a couple of observations I made last year... two identical items I use in Aus selling at twice the retail price in NZ.

That's gouging. I'm sure there's more of it... and I don't agree with the argument that a small market needs higher prices to sustain it. Small items, easily packed and shipped are a relatively low cost product to sell. Like Aus, the NZ retail sector needs a wake up call to alert it to the changed habits of shoppers.

As for taxing imports... why not shift the administration point for the transaction? Take that onerous task out of the seller's hands and apply it to the point of sale, it's a consumption tax after all. You'd do that by having every financial institution apply the charge and pass it on to govt. You could code in any tax free conditions for the consumer to apply.

We live in a world of electronic commerce. It shouldn't be hard to do.

I'd like to see that expanded actually, and made the main tax revenue collection point... every transaction, every one of them, paying a flat rate straight to govt. Can't avoid that, shifting funds is a transaction.


So you're suggesting the banks or credit card companies levy the GST?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:58 am 
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Yes, exactly... with an inbuilt cost factor for them to ‘cover the cost of processing’


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:08 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Yes, exactly... with an inbuilt cost factor for them to ‘cover the cost of processing’


The concept seems fair enough. NZ GST is 15% on everything so fairly simple to calculate. Very few exemptions (unlike other countries where certain goods are exempted). I wonder how the financial institutions would feel about it? The banks currently deduct RWT on interest.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:12 am 
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booji boy wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Yes, exactly... with an inbuilt cost factor for them to ‘cover the cost of processing’


The concept seems fair enough. NZ GST is 15% on everything so fairly simple to calculate. Very few exemptions (unlike other countries where certain goods are exempted). I wonder how the financial institutions would feel about it? The banks currently deduct RWT on interest.


Oh they’d kick up a massive stink about costs etc... hence my suggestion to cover that. I’m sure some bank protecting suit type will jump in and explain why it can’t work according to conservative principles but I think it’s the way forward for countries trying to capture tax avoidance.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:16 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
booji boy wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Yes, exactly... with an inbuilt cost factor for them to ‘cover the cost of processing’


The concept seems fair enough. NZ GST is 15% on everything so fairly simple to calculate. Very few exemptions (unlike other countries where certain goods are exempted). I wonder how the financial institutions would feel about it? The banks currently deduct RWT on interest.


Oh they’d kick up a massive stink about costs etc... hence my suggestion to cover that. I’m sure some bank protecting suit type will jump in and explain why it can’t work according to conservative principles but I think it’s the way forward for countries trying to capture tax avoidance.


I dunno. The concept of collecting cash and stashing it away for 30 days before passing it on to Govt would appeal to most financial institutions I would have thought. But I too will wait for some bank type to explain why it can't work.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:14 am 
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I notice all the political supporters of the big shop owners and mall owners don't even mention the price gouging rents that NZ retailers have to pay for, and pass on the costs to their clients.

No

Far

King

Eye

Deer


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:26 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
I notice all the political supporters of the big shop owners and mall owners don't even mention the price gouging rents that NZ retailers have to pay for, and pass on the costs to their clients.

No

Far

King

Eye

Deer

So what planet do you live on ? Are these shop tenanted and do these businesses turn a.profit in the face of internet shopping


Last edited by jono45 on Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:27 am 
Dark wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Will today be baby day?


You hoping for a boy or a girl?
Gender neutral, of course.


Would imagine so

She also seems like the type who will have a "No toy guns or dolls in the house" policy


What poppycock !!


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:31 am 
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eugenius wrote:
Dark wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Will today be baby day?


You hoping for a boy or a girl?
Gender neutral, of course.


Would imagine so

She also seems like the type who will have a "No toy guns or dolls in the house" policy


What poppycock !!

Will Helen give a book of communist lullabies as gift ?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:37 am 
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booji boy wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
booji boy wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Yes, exactly... with an inbuilt cost factor for them to ‘cover the cost of processing’


The concept seems fair enough. NZ GST is 15% on everything so fairly simple to calculate. Very few exemptions (unlike other countries where certain goods are exempted). I wonder how the financial institutions would feel about it? The banks currently deduct RWT on interest.


Oh they’d kick up a massive stink about costs etc... hence my suggestion to cover that. I’m sure some bank protecting suit type will jump in and explain why it can’t work according to conservative principles but I think it’s the way forward for countries trying to capture tax avoidance.


I dunno. The concept of collecting cash and stashing it away for 30 days before passing it on to Govt would appeal to most financial institutions I would have thought. But I too will wait for some bank type to explain why it can't work.


I just got home and read this on the laptop instead of with my squinty old man eyes on the phone...

minor correction. I wouldn't have the banks collect the GST. I'd have them collecting a levy, tax, whatever, on every transaction that occurs. I'd work out how much that has to be to replace the GST completely... and every other incidental tax. Every transaction collecting a govt fee or tax or levy or pound of flesh, depending on how you like to refer to the messy business of paying to live in a society with benefits.

How much money do you reckon changes hands on a daily basis across the country?
If you applied a percentage collection to every dollar in that...


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:00 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
booji boy wrote:
I buy goods overseas all the time from UK and US based sites. No way they are going to collect and pay 15% GST on behalf of Jacinda and her band of merry tax collectors. WTF should they? They are operating in their own tax jurisdiction and meeting their tax obligations there. Why the fudge would they want the admin hassle and compliance costs of collecting and then paying 15% GST to the NZ Govt. Labour trumpeted this as some sort of win because they thought they could get the big players like Amazon to come to the party. But smaller dealerships like the ones I deal with definitely won't. And now even Amazon have given NZ the two fingered salute. Welcome to the real world Jacinda. :lol:


Don’t let your anti-labour bias blind you. National will want to tax these companies as much as labour and its considered an international problem. You’d be hard pressed to find any political party anywhere supporting it (outside of where company recognised its revenue). It’s tax avoidance of the worst kind. Are you seriously advocating for that?


Australia doing similar things and fighting the same battle from the opposite side of the political fence...

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 4ziuf.html


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:18 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
I notice all the political supporters of the big shop owners and mall owners don't even mention the price gouging rents that NZ retailers have to pay for, and pass on the costs to their clients.

No

Far

King

Eye

Deer


I see very little reason for retail to be paying premium rent and customer facing staff anymore.

It appears that its a better business model to store the product in very low value sites and supply it as needed with direct delivery.


Last edited by Sonny Blount on Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:24 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
booji boy wrote:
I buy goods overseas all the time from UK and US based sites. No way they are going to collect and pay 15% GST on behalf of Jacinda and her band of merry tax collectors. WTF should they? They are operating in their own tax jurisdiction and meeting their tax obligations there. Why the fudge would they want the admin hassle and compliance costs of collecting and then paying 15% GST to the NZ Govt. Labour trumpeted this as some sort of win because they thought they could get the big players like Amazon to come to the party. But smaller dealerships like the ones I deal with definitely won't. And now even Amazon have given NZ the two fingered salute. Welcome to the real world Jacinda. :lol:


Don’t let your anti-labour bias blind you. National will want to tax these companies as much as labour and its considered an international problem. You’d be hard pressed to find any political party anywhere supporting it (outside of where company recognised its revenue). It’s tax avoidance of the worst kind. Are you seriously advocating for that?


Australia doing similar things and fighting the same battle from the opposite side of the political fence...

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 4ziuf.html



I love Amazon because they put customer value first, second, and third.


Too bad for governments trying to use them to collect revenue from their populace.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:29 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
booji boy wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
booji boy wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Yes, exactly... with an inbuilt cost factor for them to ‘cover the cost of processing’


The concept seems fair enough. NZ GST is 15% on everything so fairly simple to calculate. Very few exemptions (unlike other countries where certain goods are exempted). I wonder how the financial institutions would feel about it? The banks currently deduct RWT on interest.


Oh they’d kick up a massive stink about costs etc... hence my suggestion to cover that. I’m sure some bank protecting suit type will jump in and explain why it can’t work according to conservative principles but I think it’s the way forward for countries trying to capture tax avoidance.


I dunno. The concept of collecting cash and stashing it away for 30 days before passing it on to Govt would appeal to most financial institutions I would have thought. But I too will wait for some bank type to explain why it can't work.


I just got home and read this on the laptop instead of with my squinty old man eyes on the phone...

minor correction. I wouldn't have the banks collect the GST. I'd have them collecting a levy, tax, whatever, on every transaction that occurs. I'd work out how much that has to be to replace the GST completely... and every other incidental tax. Every transaction collecting a govt fee or tax or levy or pound of flesh, depending on how you like to refer to the messy business of paying to live in a society with benefits.

How much money do you reckon changes hands on a daily basis across the country?
If you applied a percentage collection to every dollar in that...



For me the things to balance are:

- The ideologically correct place to collect tax for incentives
- The cheapest way to collect tax
- The simplest way to understand what is being paid by the citizen.

I like your proposition because one method of collection makes it easy to understand what you are paying, and hopefully easy to collect.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:51 am 
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Baby day tomorrow, perhaps?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:04 pm 
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I think when little Winnie Gayford-Ardern (or is it Winnie Ardern-Gayford or some abominable portmanteau like Gayfern) is eventually deposited on the hospital linens I may have to go dark for a couple of weeks whilst the media frenzy dissipates.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:18 pm 
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While I wish her and anyone else having a baby in the near future well, I can't claim any real interest in it.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:23 pm 
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Thai guy wrote:
Baby day tomorrow, perhaps?


When is the actual due date ?

Not that I really care but I wish them well


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:31 pm 
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deadduck wrote:
I think when little Winnie Gayford-Ardern (or is it Winnie Ardern-Gayford or some abominable portmanteau like Gayfern) is eventually deposited on the hospital linens I may have to go dark for a couple of weeks whilst the media frenzy dissipates.
How ironic that you have the child of a former PM as your avatar.

The due date is June 17.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:52 pm 
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guy smiley wrote:
booji boy wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
booji boy wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Yes, exactly... with an inbuilt cost factor for them to ‘cover the cost of processing’


The concept seems fair enough. NZ GST is 15% on everything so fairly simple to calculate. Very few exemptions (unlike other countries where certain goods are exempted). I wonder how the financial institutions would feel about it? The banks currently deduct RWT on interest.


Oh they’d kick up a massive stink about costs etc... hence my suggestion to cover that. I’m sure some bank protecting suit type will jump in and explain why it can’t work according to conservative principles but I think it’s the way forward for countries trying to capture tax avoidance.


I dunno. The concept of collecting cash and stashing it away for 30 days before passing it on to Govt would appeal to most financial institutions I would have thought. But I too will wait for some bank type to explain why it can't work.


I just got home and read this on the laptop instead of with my squinty old man eyes on the phone...

minor correction. I wouldn't have the banks collect the GST. I'd have them collecting a levy, tax, whatever, on every transaction that occurs. I'd work out how much that has to be to replace the GST completely... and every other incidental tax. Every transaction collecting a govt fee or tax or levy or pound of flesh, depending on how you like to refer to the messy business of paying to live in a society with benefits.

How much money do you reckon changes hands on a daily basis across the country?
If you applied a percentage collection to every dollar in that...


Erm ... Hone Harawira and the Mana Party beat you to it. He proposed a 1% 'consumption tax' in the 2014 election. That way all the rich pricks spending lots of money would pay all the tax and the poor people wouldn't pay much at all. You do realize there is already GST on everything except financial transactions i.e. bank fees, interest, and domestic residential housing and rent.

What do you hope to gain with this new tax? Will you tax all transactions including financial transactions and housing?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:14 pm 
Sonny Blount wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
booji boy wrote:
I buy goods overseas all the time from UK and US based sites. No way they are going to collect and pay 15% GST on behalf of Jacinda and her band of merry tax collectors. WTF should they? They are operating in their own tax jurisdiction and meeting their tax obligations there. Why the fudge would they want the admin hassle and compliance costs of collecting and then paying 15% GST to the NZ Govt. Labour trumpeted this as some sort of win because they thought they could get the big players like Amazon to come to the party. But smaller dealerships like the ones I deal with definitely won't. And now even Amazon have given NZ the two fingered salute. Welcome to the real world Jacinda. :lol:


Don’t let your anti-labour bias blind you. National will want to tax these companies as much as labour and its considered an international problem. You’d be hard pressed to find any political party anywhere supporting it (outside of where company recognised its revenue). It’s tax avoidance of the worst kind. Are you seriously advocating for that?


Australia doing similar things and fighting the same battle from the opposite side of the political fence...

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 4ziuf.html



I love Amazon because they put customer value first, second, and third.


Too bad for governments trying to use them to collect revenue from their populace.



As I loathe then for the way they treat their employees.

I rarely use them because of this.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:09 pm 
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Thai guy wrote:
deadduck wrote:
I think when little Winnie Gayford-Ardern (or is it Winnie Ardern-Gayford or some abominable portmanteau like Gayfern) is eventually deposited on the hospital linens I may have to go dark for a couple of weeks whilst the media frenzy dissipates.
How ironic that you have the child of a former PM as your avatar.


Of course it's ironic, that's why it's there. You think I give a shit about Max Key?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:14 pm 
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I think you do. You have a long history of supporting John Key's National government and the avatar is nod to that support.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:40 pm 
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Enzedder wrote:
I notice all the political supporters of the big shop owners and mall owners don't even mention the price gouging rents that NZ retailers have to pay for, and pass on the costs to their clients.


I worked for a number of years looking after the finances for a large retail network. I think I have a vague idea what I'm talking about.

As for rent gouging, I'm aware of some retailers who price gouge themselves - renting the retailer their own personal property at high rates in order to gain the ultimate owner a higher personal income. Some might call that a conflict of interest, others might call it fraud. But it happens in corruption free New Zealand. Furthermore, your point would assume that a retailer who's owned their own property for years would take advantage of their lower costs to charge the consumer lower prices. You won't find one.


Last edited by Gordon Bennett on Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:58 pm 
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Gordon Bennett wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
I notice all the political supporters of the big shop owners and mall owners don't even mention the price gouging rents that NZ retailers have to pay for, and pass on the costs to their clients.


I worked for a number of years looking after the finances for a large retail network. I think I have a vague idea what I'm talking about.

As for rent gouging, I'm aware of some retailers who price gouge themselves - renting the retailer their own own property at high rates in order to gain the ultimate owner a higher personal income. Some might call that a conflict of interest, others might call it fraud. But it happens in corruption free New Zealand. Furthermore, you point out a retailer who's owned their own property for years and takes advantage of their lower costs to charge the consumer lower prices. You won't find one.

It's pretty obvious that he is ignorant regarding commercial property investment and retail practice in NZ


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:09 am 
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Where does the high price of builders, tradespepple and construction materials factor into this gouging debate?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:16 am 
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booji boy wrote:


Erm ... Hone Harawira and the Mana Party beat you to it. He proposed a 1% 'consumption tax' in the 2014 election. That way all the rich pricks spending lots of money would pay all the tax and the poor people wouldn't pay much at all. You do realize there is already GST on everything except financial transactions i.e. bank fees, interest, and domestic residential housing and rent.

What do you hope to gain with this new tax? Will you tax all transactions including financial transactions and housing?


Tax every transaction, yes. Of course I know there's a GST, by the f**king way.

The problem with most taxing regimes is that they're clumsy, clunky and usually unfair with the lowest earners paying proportionately more. Then there's the issue that sparked this conversation, regarding off shore retailing and the like. If you're applying a small fee to every single transaction involving a national financial institution then your revenue capture is simpler, fairer and can't be avoided.

Avoidance is my main target, coupled with the idea of a fairer system.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:39 am 
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Would your system not just mean that the people making the most transactions would pay the most tax? And people who used cash would easily avoid it?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:23 am 
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deadduck wrote:
Would your system not just mean that the people making the most transactions would pay the most tax? And people who used cash would easily avoid it?


Yes... and the largest. Cash is fine up to a point but you have to withdraw it or spend it sometime (legally) so it's captured there eventually.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:07 am 
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Things would also end up being taxed more than once

E.g. Say you withdraw $1000 from the bank and use it to pay your gardener. They then bank it. Is that two transactions or one? If you just did a money transfer, would it be two transactions or one?

And if they don't bank it, but instead use it to pay the babysitter, and then the babysitter uses it to pay to get her nails done, and then the salon owner uses it to buy afternoon tea for her staff etc ... that money can go around and around in the cash economy avoiding your transaction tax. But if these things are done electronically, is the money taxed half a dozen times?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:45 am 
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deadduck wrote:
Things would also end up being taxed more than once

E.g. Say you withdraw $1000 from the bank and use it to pay your gardener. They then bank it. Is that two transactions or one? If you just did a money transfer, would it be two transactions or one?

And if they don't bank it, but instead use it to pay the babysitter, and then the babysitter uses it to pay to get her nails done, and then the salon owner uses it to buy afternoon tea for her staff etc ... that money can go around and around in the cash economy avoiding your transaction tax. But if these things are done electronically, is the money taxed half a dozen times?


Correct. It would incentivise the use of cash to avoid tax.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:08 am 
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Sonny Blount wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
booji boy wrote:
I buy goods overseas all the time from UK and US based sites. No way they are going to collect and pay 15% GST on behalf of Jacinda and her band of merry tax collectors. WTF should they? They are operating in their own tax jurisdiction and meeting their tax obligations there. Why the fudge would they want the admin hassle and compliance costs of collecting and then paying 15% GST to the NZ Govt. Labour trumpeted this as some sort of win because they thought they could get the big players like Amazon to come to the party. But smaller dealerships like the ones I deal with definitely won't. And now even Amazon have given NZ the two fingered salute. Welcome to the real world Jacinda. :lol:


Don’t let your anti-labour bias blind you. National will want to tax these companies as much as labour and its considered an international problem. You’d be hard pressed to find any political party anywhere supporting it (outside of where company recognised its revenue). It’s tax avoidance of the worst kind. Are you seriously advocating for that?


Australia doing similar things and fighting the same battle from the opposite side of the political fence...

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 4ziuf.html



I love Amazon because they put customer value first, second, and third.


Too bad for governments trying to use them to collect revenue from their populace.


They put profit first, and tax minimisation plays a large role in this.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:41 am 
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Could be wrong and am happy to be proven wrong but isn t the boss of Amazon the nutty bloke who said he wanted to destroy all physical retail?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:29 am 
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deadduck wrote:
Things would also end up being taxed more than once

E.g. Say you withdraw $1000 from the bank and use it to pay your gardener. They then bank it. Is that two transactions or one? If you just did a money transfer, would it be two transactions or one?

And if they don't bank it, but instead use it to pay the babysitter, and then the babysitter uses it to pay to get her nails done, and then the salon owner uses it to buy afternoon tea for her staff etc ... that money can go around and around in the cash economy avoiding your transaction tax. But if these things are done electronically, is the money taxed half a dozen times?


Is it a lady gardener ?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:47 pm 
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Location: End of the road, turn right and first house on the left
Quote:
#MeTooNZ: Govt considers ACC for workers traumatised by sexual harassment


Excellent work if this goes ahead - even better if they add bullying to the list of acceptable claims.

Companies invariably ignore both and sweep them under the table with faux investigations. Having an active ACC claim will hit them both in the pocket and force them to work with the affected staff member to put the situation right so that they can return.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indust ... harassment

(It a long story so read it it you care; don't care if you don't)


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:58 pm 
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ACC will need to take on more staff. And that's just to deal with all those affected by naki's stare raping.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:59 pm 
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Yep, that'll be covered by the extra premiums from all the companies too daft to sort this stuff out.


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