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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:29 pm 
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kiwinoz wrote:
So Kavanaugh was a key proponent of the patriot Act that was written pre 9/11, supported torture etc and supports presidential power . If the Democrats had a run a campaign on that they would have had a decent chance of stopping him. Yet they chose a different path. Soo stupid .


Was that among the 100000+ page of Kav history that Grassley deemed to be 'committee confidential' or was it part of the publicly available stuff?


Last edited by Turbogoat on Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:29 pm 
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obelixtim wrote:
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It also fails to notice that the majority of americans voted the other way in the last election, so there is a considerable proportion of the country that wouldn't feel that this was 'bashing them around the head', rather reflecting their own thoughts on the state of their democracy.




Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

80% of eligible voters did not vote the other way. Of those who did vote, the dems got 3 million more votes overall. Only 20% of eligible voters, voted for Trump. Their screwed up electoral college system allowed him to steal the presidency from the majority.

This is why the GOP is gonna get a hiding in November.


Like the Springboks were tipped, by you, to get a hiding in Wellington, a few weeks ago ?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:31 pm 
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obelixtim wrote:
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It also fails to notice that the majority of americans voted the other way in the last election, so there is a considerable proportion of the country that wouldn't feel that this was 'bashing them around the head', rather reflecting their own thoughts on the state of their democracy.




Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

80% of eligible voters did not vote the other way. Of those who did vote, the dems got 3 million more votes overall. Only 20% of eligible voters, voted for Trump. Their screwed up electoral college system allowed him to steal the presidency from the majority.

This is why the GOP is gonna get a hiding in November.


The ability of politicians on both sides (on many sides!) to ramp up voter apathy can not be underestimated.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:34 pm 
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obelixtim wrote:
Quote:
It also fails to notice that the majority of americans voted the other way in the last election, so there is a considerable proportion of the country that wouldn't feel that this was 'bashing them around the head', rather reflecting their own thoughts on the state of their democracy.




Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

80% of eligible voters did not vote the other way. Of those who did vote, the dems got 3 million more votes overall. Only 20% of eligible voters, voted for Trump. Their screwed up electoral college system allowed him to steal the presidency from the majority.

This is why the GOP is gonna get a hiding in November.


My point was that there would be a receptive audience for that kind of talk - the addition of 'of those who voted' doesn't change that.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Well the strategy for the Dems now is to simply pack the courts with more judges beyond the current 9 such that the conservatives are outnumbered.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:41 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
So Kavanaugh was a key proponent of the patriot Act that was written pre 9/11, supported torture etc and supports presidential power . If the Democrats had a run a campaign on that they would have had a decent chance of stopping him. Yet they chose a different path. Soo stupid .


Was that among the 100000+ page of Kav history that Grassley deemed to be 'committee confidential' or was it part of the publicly available stuff?


Google overcomes that - and this is just one of the links to "kavanaugh support for patriot act"

Quote:
Now that the smoke has settled on Associate Justice Brett Kavanaugh’s appointment to the Supreme Court, I have some reservations that unfortunately were never raised during his confirmation hearings or afterwards.

No I’m not talking about his prep school or college drinking antics, which the Democrats used as simply a delaying tactic to somehow hope either Kavanaugh or President Trump would pull his nomination rather than push ahead.

Why else would Senator Dianne Feinstein not raise the Dr. Christine Blasey Ford’s allegations when meeting privately with Kavanaugh in late August before the hearings began or during the formal hearings in early September since she had the letter from Dr. Ford in July?

What did the Democrats wait until the Senate Judical Committee was about to vote to leak these charges to the press — thereby throwing Dr. Ford under the bus — by making her name public for the first time?

And I’m not concerned about Roe v Wade being overturned. This is settled law for 45 years. Just as we will not return to allowing slavery, we will not take away a women’s right to choose.

The Democrats still use Roe as a rallying cry against conservatives because they have no other hot-button issues to concentrate on.

No the issue that has me most concerned about Kavanaugh is his crafting of the language behind the USAPatriot Act, which was enacted weeks after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The Act’s full title is “Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001″

In the haste of showing the world we would be the strong, Congress approved a bill that weakened our venerable Bill of Rights and especially the Fourth Amendment.

This is the most draconian piece of legislation ever passed by Congress.While many of the most vile abridgments to our civil liberties were originally set to sunset (no longer be part of the law), Congress has continued to reauthorize these violations of our privacy at least twice.


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Our privacy under the Fourth Amendment has been curtailed by the Patriot Act to such an extent that federal law enforcement are leery of using its full effect for fear that the entire act will be challenged at the Supreme Court and thrown out as being unconstitutional.

But now we have one of the crafters of the Act on the bench and since we have been perpetually under various states of emergencies since 9/11, the Act retains its teeth of violating our rights.

Yet not one question in the 36 hours of testimony pertaining to the Patriot Act. Not one question of whether Kavanaugh believes it’s constitutionally accepted that federal agents can search phone records or premises without a duly signed search warrant. Nary a query on the acceptability of the NSA to have access to all electronic communications without a warrant.

Since I know all about Kavanaugh’s drinking games and such, why can I not know about his views on the federal government violating the Fourth Amendment?

That tells me that neither party wanted to open that can of worms, which should worry everyone.


https://grayseconomy.com/2018/10/07/kav ... -see-here/


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:45 pm 
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tbh none of the Americans wanting to go deep on the Patriot Act is all to believable.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:53 pm 
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kiwinoz wrote:
That tells me that neither party wanted to open that can of worms, which should worry everyone.

Indeed, and I don't think Trump is necessarily a defender of public freedoms either (although he might have changed his mind now he has been the victim of surveillance).


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:58 pm 
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Is Ford going to pursue her case?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:01 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
Is Ford going to pursue her case?



:lol:


What case ?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:03 pm 
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Kiwias wrote:
zt1903 wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
I am quoting parts of the report on Taylor Swift's court case, to hilight the similarities between her case and Dr. Ford's and to suggest that these experiences are not isolated incidents for a lot of women. Trump's attempts to humiliate Ford have certainly worked extremely well, but I suspect that there will be repercussions.

I found Ford's testimony to be a lot more compelling than Kavaugh's, and although one likes to presume innocence in the absence of indisputable evidence (which doesn't include hand-drawn calendars) I found it far more likely that he was lying than that she was.


You are, of course, entitled to your opinion but FWIW I think it is far more likely that she was lying than he was.


Sam doesn't agree with you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z6AoIyZJ68


So what? I’m sure he’s not the only so called liberal that does.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:08 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
Is Ford going to pursue her case?


Probably not...

...having the most powerful man in the world ridicule you, to the enthusiastic cheering and laughter of Johnny Redneck might make it all seem not worth the hassle.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:17 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
obelixtim wrote:
Quote:
It also fails to notice that the majority of americans voted the other way in the last election, so there is a considerable proportion of the country that wouldn't feel that this was 'bashing them around the head', rather reflecting their own thoughts on the state of their democracy.




Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

80% of eligible voters did not vote the other way. Of those who did vote, the dems got 3 million more votes overall. Only 20% of eligible voters, voted for Trump. Their screwed up electoral college system allowed him to steal the presidency from the majority.

This is why the GOP is gonna get a hiding in November.


Like the Springboks were tipped, by you, to get a hiding in Wellington, a few weeks ago ?


Well the way most Bok fans, including yourself, had run up the white flag before the game, it seems I was not alone in thinking the Boks would get smashed.

Trump is expertly galvanising the opposition. But lets just wait and see.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:19 pm 
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BokJock wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
Is Ford going to pursue her case?


Probably not...

...having the most powerful man in the world ridicule you, to the enthusiastic cheering and laughter of Johnny Redneck might make it all seem not worth the hassle.

Yet she allowed herself to be used for political reasons on the biggest stage :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:20 pm 
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obelixtim wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
obelixtim wrote:
Quote:
It also fails to notice that the majority of americans voted the other way in the last election, so there is a considerable proportion of the country that wouldn't feel that this was 'bashing them around the head', rather reflecting their own thoughts on the state of their democracy.




Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

80% of eligible voters did not vote the other way. Of those who did vote, the dems got 3 million more votes overall. Only 20% of eligible voters, voted for Trump. Their screwed up electoral college system allowed him to steal the presidency from the majority.

This is why the GOP is gonna get a hiding in November.


Like the Springboks were tipped, by you, to get a hiding in Wellington, a few weeks ago ?


Well the way most Bok fans, including yourself, had run up the white flag before the game, it seems I was not alone in thinking the Boks would get smashed.

Trump is expertly galvanising the opposition. But lets just wait and see.



Serious comment - Trump is a much better politician than I gave him credit for. Or he is steered magnificently by a total expert.
And the Dems provide the ammunition.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:24 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
BokJock wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
Is Ford going to pursue her case?


Probably not...

...having the most powerful man in the world ridicule you, to the enthusiastic cheering and laughter of Johnny Redneck might make it all seem not worth the hassle.

Yet she allowed herself to be used for political reasons on the biggest stage :roll:



It was her day in the sun ... from now on she is an Alto Palo heroin, the best of the best, a veteran of the struggle against white male superiority. A surreal world, she exists in ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV019fkNOqs


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:35 pm 
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unseenwork wrote:
Well the strategy for the Dems now is to simply pack the courts with more judges beyond the current 9 such that the conservatives are outnumbered.


Ive seen a suggestion from the right to bump it up to 15 to take the heat out of individual appointments. I think both sides will be looking at it. Not sure how feasible it is. Of course once the current generation of judicial activists on the left pass and we get some good solid constitutionalism then no one will care anymore. Part of the drama here is because the Dems invested so much in the court as an agent of change. And losing that is a very serious loss.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:39 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
Well the strategy for the Dems now is to simply pack the courts with more judges beyond the current 9 such that the conservatives are outnumbered.


Ive seen a suggestion from the right to bump it up to 15 to take the heat out of individual appointments. I think both sides will be looking at it. Not sure how feasible it is. Of course once the current generation of judicial activists on the left pass and we get some good solid constitutionalism then no one will care anymore. Part of the drama here is because the Dems invested so much in the court as an agent of change. And losing that is a very serious loss.

Maybe I lack some empathy for some of this people but seeing these protesters act the way they do, crying while banging on shut doors etc. I do chuckle at them a little.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:42 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
Well the strategy for the Dems now is to simply pack the courts with more judges beyond the current 9 such that the conservatives are outnumbered.


Ive seen a suggestion from the right to bump it up to 15 to take the heat out of individual appointments. I think both sides will be looking at it. Not sure how feasible it is. Of course once the current generation of judicial activists on the left pass and we get some good solid constitutionalism then no one will care anymore. Part of the drama here is because the Dems invested so much in the court as an agent of change. And losing that is a very serious loss.


It's also been suggested they return to needing 60 Senate votes to approve anyone to make some bipartisanship more necessary.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:46 pm 
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Bipartisanship cannot work in this poisonous atmosphere. And using the SC to create law is not the way to enforce the will of the people.

Trump would do well to defeat these leftist Soros apparatchik soonest, and get a return to government by the people. Or at least a semblance of it.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:47 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Bipartisanship cannot work in this poisonous atmosphere. And using the SC to create law is not the way to enforce the will of the people.

Trump would do well to defeat these leftist Soros apparatchik soonest, and get a return to government by the people. Or at least a semblance of it.

Wot?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:49 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
BokJock wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
Is Ford going to pursue her case?


Probably not...

...having the most powerful man in the world ridicule you, to the enthusiastic cheering and laughter of Johnny Redneck might make it all seem not worth the hassle.

Yet she allowed herself to be used for political reasons on the biggest stage :roll:


Yip, why couldn't she foresee the President of her country doing a stand up routine about her?

Silly girl, silly silly girl


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:51 pm 
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BokJock wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
BokJock wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
Is Ford going to pursue her case?


Probably not...

...having the most powerful man in the world ridicule you, to the enthusiastic cheering and laughter of Johnny Redneck might make it all seem not worth the hassle.

Yet she allowed herself to be used for political reasons on the biggest stage :roll:


Yip, why couldn't she foresee the President of her country doing a stand up routine about her?

Silly girl, silly silly girl

So you're saying she's not the sharpest tool in the shed then...she clearly isn't a PR member or she would have known.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:55 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
BokJock wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
BokJock wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
Is Ford going to pursue her case?


Probably not...

...having the most powerful man in the world ridicule you, to the enthusiastic cheering and laughter of Johnny Redneck might make it all seem not worth the hassle.

Yet she allowed herself to be used for political reasons on the biggest stage :roll:


Yip, why couldn't she foresee the President of her country doing a stand up routine about her?

Silly girl, silly silly girl

So you're saying she's not the sharpest tool in the shed then...she clearly isn't a PR member or she would have known.


Deep state sleeper agent activated on cue. Will probably be buried with military honours if there is a Democrat president when she dies.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:56 pm 
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It's almost as if Blasey Ford (and apparently most women) are aware that coming forward about being sexually assaulted as a 15yr old makes them open season for ridicule and further attacks on them as a person.

This really isn't an edifying path here, guys.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:58 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
BokJock wrote:

Yip, why couldn't she foresee the President of her country doing a stand up routine about her?

Silly girl, silly silly girl

So you're saying she's not the sharpest tool in the shed then...she clearly isn't a PR member or she would have known.


She lives in such rarified air in her university
(with 80% females attendees, all fighting against male domination ! 69 % female professors ... probably all suppressed and oppressed !!!!)
and nice expensive California home (mean worth around 3.5 million dollars, in her bailiwick...) that she would never know anybody is questioning her truthfulness .... .

Nor would she care.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:00 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:
It's almost as if Blasey Ford (and apparently most women) are aware that coming forward about being sexually assaulted as a 15yr old makes them open season for ridicule and further attacks on them as a person.

This really isn't an edifying path here, guys.



I do not know about most women. They are not "under attack" here - but Ford is questioned, yes.
Ford knew exactly what she was doing and she will eventually have to face it. American politics are unforgiving, except when you are a Clinton (or some breeds or Kennedy)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:03 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:
It's almost as if Blasey Ford (and apparently most women) are aware that coming forward about being sexually assaulted as a 15yr old makes them open season for ridicule and further attacks on them as a person.

This really isn't an edifying path here, guys.


You're not still on this dumbarse high horse are you.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:04 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
It's almost as if Blasey Ford (and apparently most women) are aware that coming forward about being sexually assaulted as a 15yr old makes them open season for ridicule and further attacks on them as a person.

This really isn't an edifying path here, guys.


You're not still on this dumbarse high horse are you.


Sorry, it was a bit much to expect I guess. I'll lower my expectations of you accordingly.

Have at it.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:11 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
It's almost as if Blasey Ford (and apparently most women) are aware that coming forward about being sexually assaulted as a 15yr old makes them open season for ridicule and further attacks on them as a person.

This really isn't an edifying path here, guys.


You're not still on this dumbarse high horse are you.


Sorry, it was a bit much to expect I guess. I'll lower my expectations of you accordingly.

Have at it.


You're not stating anything anyone disagrees with, just merely getting all pompous about any questioning of the veracity of her story.

This was a very unusual case. She did the right thing with a private letter to Feinstein's office. But they fcked it up, blowing her anonymity, and Kavanaughs right to be accused of such a thing in accordance with some sort of process. Her story holds less water than almost all these types of cases because we never even would have got to victim shaming because she didn't meet the normal threshold for being even an alleged victim.

Hard to think how she could have been treated better given the wafer thin substance of her allegation.

There should be an investigation into the leak and someone should get fired or worse.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:16 pm 
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Imagine if the FBI had actually been able to speak to the principle actors involved and actually managed to come up with something exculpatory - then you might have a point.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:17 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:
Imagine if the FBI had actually been able to speak to the principle actors involved and actually managed to come up with something exculpatory - then you might have a point.


Imagine there's no war. Easy if you try.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:20 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Imagine if the FBI had actually been able to speak to the principle actors involved and actually managed to come up with something exculpatory - then you might have a point.


Imagine there's no war. Easy if you try.


:lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:
Imagine if the FBI had actually been able to speak to the principle actors involved and actually managed to come up with something exculpatory - then you might have a point.



Imagine this is the FBI's seventh bite at the cherry..... She should have reported it to the police and get it done. Like other women have to. Instead of grandstanding in front of the world, in Senate ....

Privileged woman, special treatment, not the raw and rough handling a common whore or poor woman have to expect as normal ...


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:58 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:
Imagine if the FBI had actually been able to speak to the principle actors involved and actually managed to come up with something exculpatory - then you might have a point.

If she actually has credible witnesses, then she should go to court. The great majority of the media will support her.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:06 pm 
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Fangle wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Imagine if the FBI had actually been able to speak to the principle actors involved and actually managed to come up with something exculpatory - then you might have a point.

If she actually has credible witnesses, then she should go to court. The great majority of the media will support her.



If she had credible evidence most people from all over the world would support her.
She does not appear to have any evidence. Or credibility, despite the kid glove treatment.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:07 pm 
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Fangle wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Imagine if the FBI had actually been able to speak to the principle actors involved and actually managed to come up with something exculpatory - then you might have a point.

If she actually has credible witnesses, then she should go to court. The great majority of the media will support her.


She did actually name several people who were then backed up by an entry in Kav's calendar that would've been worth having trained FBI investigators actually get to talk to, but that never came to pass.

Oh well.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:08 pm 
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She also named people who promptly swore that she was "wrong" (lied, if she was a common poor woman)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:18 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:
Fangle wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Imagine if the FBI had actually been able to speak to the principle actors involved and actually managed to come up with something exculpatory - then you might have a point.

If she actually has credible witnesses, then she should go to court. The great majority of the media will support her.


She did actually name several people who were then backed up by an entry in Kav's calendar that would've been worth having trained FBI investigators actually get to talk to, but that never came to pass.

Oh well.

So it should be easy for people who actually investigate these crimes (not the FBI in this case) to make a case and bring charges. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:18 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Fangle wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Imagine if the FBI had actually been able to speak to the principle actors involved and actually managed to come up with something exculpatory - then you might have a point.

If she actually has credible witnesses, then she should go to court. The great majority of the media will support her.


She did actually name several people who were then backed up by an entry in Kav's calendar that would've been worth having trained FBI investigators actually get to talk to, but that never came to pass.

Oh well.

So it should be easy for people who actually investigate these crimes (not the FBI in this case) to make a case and bring charges. :thumbup:



:lol:


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