NZ Politics Thread

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grouch
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by grouch »

guy smiley wrote:
True Blue wrote:Become a citizen without even being able to speak one of the official languages. What the fvck. NZ Citizenship for sale it seems, but we already knew that.
It strikes me as a really good example of everything that is wrong with NZ.

Sell out, then adopt moral high ground. It’s f**king dumb.
I don't disagree with you or True Blue overall , but I' am struggling to re-call any adoption of moral high ground by either coalition in the past 20 years.

We 've squandered any moral high ground we once occupied by consistently responding"how far" when instructed to bend over by the "New World Order" and at the same time engaging in long time financial intercourse with PRC inc.

The last "moral " action I can recall was suspending diplomatic relationships with Israel in 2004 , when mossad agents were busted obtaining false NZ passports.
We only lasted a year and since then have bent over backwards to ingratiate ourselves with that particular rogue state.
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grouch
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by grouch »

Wilderbeast wrote:Croaking Cassandra? Isn’t she that mad as batshit commentator covered in dirty politics?
yeaah , naaah.

Croaking Casandra
About Michael Reddell’s blog

I’ve spent 30+ years doing economic analysis and policy advice in a range of institutions, in New Zealand and overseas. Most of that time was at the Reserve Bank, where I ran a number of areas, including a spell as Head of Financial Markets, responsible for monetary policy implementation, foreign reserves management, and the analysis of financial system risks. I spent 25 years or so on the (equivalent of the) OCR Advisory Group to the Governor, and many years on the Bank’s key internal financial regulation policy committee.

In other parts of my career, I was resident economic adviser to the central banks of Papua New Guinea and Zambia, the latter as an IMF-appointee. I spent two years as Alternate Executive Director on the Board of the International Monetary Fund (representing New Zealand and a dozen other countries) and two years as Special Adviser at The Treasury.
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Fat Old Git
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

guy smiley wrote:So apparently Winston wandered out to a press scrum, played them Burning Bridges on his phone, thanked them for their time and wandered back into whatever it was he was doing. Downloading mp3 files, most likely.
:lol:

I so hope that is true.
tubbyj
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by tubbyj »

Incredible really. All this over a nothing story about travel expenses that had a week news cycle but Bridges couldn't let go.

Now a national MP has thrown his life into turmoil and Bridges is a gonna as leader. He was never going to be PM anyway as Peters would never go with him after Tauranga and he had no chance of gaining over 50% of the vote but he could have led them to at least one election and a possible moral victory by getting the largest % of the vote. Now he will be about as significant in NZ politics as Jim McLay, unless he actually gets prosecuted and he becomes notorious.

Classic used car salesman in that he thought he was cunning but was only thinking one or two moves ahead instead of three or four like the truely cunning do (John Key). Also obviously does not have any trusted inner circle if Ross was privy to what was going on. He must of thought he could piss on this guys shoes in the urinal and intimidate him into vanishing while establishing himself as the alpha male with the rest of them. Oops.

Probably thinks he has done nothing wrong as I suspect this is the standard modus operandi for the National Party in regards to large controversial donations just no one has blown the whistle before and had recordings. I wonder who will carry the can if the police come a sniffing the entire National party or the 'rogue' brash new leader from Tauranga. Bridges probably hasn't thought that far ahead yet though.
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

Fat Old Git wrote:
guy smiley wrote:So apparently Winston wandered out to a press scrum, played them Burning Bridges on his phone, thanked them for their time and wandered back into whatever it was he was doing. Downloading mp3 files, most likely.
:lol:

I so hope that is true.
The Guardian are reporting he burst into laughter before walking off.
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

grouch wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
True Blue wrote:Become a citizen without even being able to speak one of the official languages. What the fvck. NZ Citizenship for sale it seems, but we already knew that.
It strikes me as a really good example of everything that is wrong with NZ.

Sell out, then adopt moral high ground. It’s f**king dumb.
I don't disagree with you or True Blue overall , but I' am struggling to re-call any adoption of moral high ground by either coalition in the past 20 years.

We 've squandered any moral high ground we once occupied by consistently responding"how far" when instructed to bend over by the "New World Order" and at the same time engaging in long time financial intercourse with PRC inc.

The last "moral " action I can recall was suspending diplomatic relationships with Israel in 2004 , when mossad agents were busted obtaining false NZ passports.
We only lasted a year and since then have bent over backwards to ingratiate ourselves with that particular rogue state.
I wasn’t really referring to political claims as much as a national trait... NZ can do no wrong sort of thing. Agree with your post though, it looks like a mess, walks like a mess, quacks like a mess.
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Hareaway
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Hareaway »

So this fred that i started asking if we could trust David Cunliffe has reached the holiest of all holy numbers

426 baby ...426 !!!


This is Gold from National , been laughing all day . They look like a bunch of over entitled Takapuna Grammer 6th formers .
Peters may want to be careful what he wishes for though .
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wilderbeast »

grouch wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:Croaking Cassandra? Isn’t she that mad as batshit commentator covered in dirty politics?
yeaah , naaah.

Croaking Casandra
About Michael Reddell’s blog

I’ve spent 30+ years doing economic analysis and policy advice in a range of institutions, in New Zealand and overseas. Most of that time was at the Reserve Bank, where I ran a number of areas, including a spell as Head of Financial Markets, responsible for monetary policy implementation, foreign reserves management, and the analysis of financial system risks. I spent 25 years or so on the (equivalent of the) OCR Advisory Group to the Governor, and many years on the Bank’s key internal financial regulation policy committee.

In other parts of my career, I was resident economic adviser to the central banks of Papua New Guinea and Zambia, the latter as an IMF-appointee. I spent two years as Alternate Executive Director on the Board of the International Monetary Fund (representing New Zealand and a dozen other countries) and two years as Special Adviser at The Treasury.
My apologies. Michael Reddell is good. I’m possibly thinking of Cactus Kate?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wilderbeast »

Fat Old Git wrote:
guy smiley wrote:So apparently Winston wandered out to a press scrum, played them Burning Bridges on his phone, thanked them for their time and wandered back into whatever it was he was doing. Downloading mp3 files, most likely.
:lol:

I so hope that is true.
https://twitter.com/devlincolle/status/ ... 56096?s=21
BillW
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by BillW »

Good start.
One useless MP gone.
Get rid of about another hundred and we'll be getting somewhere.
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grouch
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by grouch »

guy smiley wrote:
grouch wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
True Blue wrote:Become a citizen without even being able to speak one of the official languages. What the fvck. NZ Citizenship for sale it seems, but we already knew that.
It strikes me as a really good example of everything that is wrong with NZ.

Sell out, then adopt moral high ground. It’s f**king dumb.
I don't disagree with you or True Blue overall , but I' am struggling to re-call any adoption of moral high ground by either coalition in the past 20 years.

We 've squandered any moral high ground we once occupied by consistently responding"how far" when instructed to bend over by the "New World Order" and at the same time engaging in long time financial intercourse with PRC inc.

The last "moral " action I can recall was suspending diplomatic relationships with Israel in 2004 , when mossad agents were busted obtaining false NZ passports.
We only lasted a year and since then have bent over backwards to ingratiate ourselves with that particular rogue state.
I wasn’t really referring to political claims as much as a national trait... NZ can do no wrong sort of thing. Agree with your post though, it looks like a mess, walks like a mess, quacks like a mess.
:nod:
Got it.
I've managed to physically isolate myself from that mindset , successfully it would seem as it its slipped from my memory.
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grouch
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by grouch »

Hareaway wrote:So this fred that i started asking if we could trust David Cunliffe has reached the holiest of all holy numbers

426 baby ...426 !!!


This is Gold from National , been laughing all day . They look like a bunch of over entitled Takapuna Grammer 6th formers .
Peters may want to be careful what he wishes for though .
Here , first!
Come back David , all is forgiven. :idea:
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

grouch wrote:
Hareaway wrote:So this fred that i started asking if we could trust David Cunliffe has reached the holiest of all holy numbers

426 baby ...426 !!!


This is Gold from National , been laughing all day . They look like a bunch of over entitled Takapuna Grammer 6th formers .
Peters may want to be careful what he wishes for though .
Here , first!
Come back David , all is forgiven. :idea:
You've ruined it by taking us to 427!

;)
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JB1981
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by JB1981 »

grouch wrote:
Hareaway wrote:So this fred that i started asking if we could trust David Cunliffe has reached the holiest of all holy numbers

426 baby ...426 !!!


This is Gold from National , been laughing all day . They look like a bunch of over entitled Takapuna Grammer 6th formers .
Peters may want to be careful what he wishes for though .
Here , first!
Come back David , all is forgiven. :idea:
Even him being a man?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by MungoMan »

Seneca of the Night wrote:Maybe we should all give in finally and allow Winston to appoint himself Generalissimo.
He has all the requisite qualities bar one, but it's a crucial one.

The man needs to grow a mo.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by TheDocForgotHisLogon »

Hilarious day. Thoughts:

- have to say JLR appeared credible on the TV news, and Bridges looks shifty (Paula would go down as well if JLR has the goods)
- suspect he might have broken the law himself taping conversations without consent - what effect that has who knows
- Newshub at least is already taking the position that you can't criticise JLR too hard as he's got mental health issues, which makes Bridges' defence rather difficult!
- Press smell blood in the water, they're going to go hard
- and after Labour and NZ First got away with it with little comment from the press, it'll be very interesting to see where the Polis goes with it - if it's a slam dunk they'll either have to prosecute and set a precedent (great IMO) or be consistent in ignoring all electoral / political stuff and put up with mass outrage from the press

Popcorn bought, sitting back in the lazyboy.
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Auckman
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Auckman »

A bit of a trainwreck of an interview with Simon Bridges this afternoon. Repeatedly dodged direct questions about donations from Zhang Yikun. Every journo in the country would've listened in on that today (as well as his earlier stand-up where he dodged questions) and smelled blood in the water. He could've shut those questions down with a nice and easy "no".
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Tehui
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Tehui »

UncleFB wrote:
Tehui wrote: What a complete shambles. This is the sort of behaviour that resulted in Labour losing support 10 or so years ago. I never thought I'd see the National party implode like this.
Really? I thought it was always a matter of time once Key (and less so English) were gone?
I didn't expect a nuclear bomb to go off like this.

Image
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by UncleFB »

Tehui wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Tehui wrote: What a complete shambles. This is the sort of behaviour that resulted in Labour losing support 10 or so years ago. I never thought I'd see the National party implode like this.
Really? I thought it was always a matter of time once Key (and less so English) were gone?
I didn't expect a nuclear bomb to go off like this.

Image
:lol:
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

:lol: :lol:
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Auckman »

UncleFB wrote:
Tehui wrote:
I didn't expect a nuclear bomb to go off like this.

Image
:lol:
:lol:
Couch
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Couch »

Enzedder wrote:This won't make a blind bit of difference to the poll figures. (But man, it is funny to watch)

National could be led by a duck (they probably are) and still get their 44%. What they need is a leader who can bring in the swing voters and put together a coalition and right now they don't have anyone capable of that.
Or wait for the 45-60 y.old demographic to die of natural causes
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Bridges is onto a loser here

Half the press are now saying he is picking on a bloke with mental issues by saying he is full of it, complete with expert opinion and the other half are saying he isn't saying enough so looks shifty

What a train wreck


:lol:
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by deadduck »

The trouble for National is who do they replace Bridges with?

Collins? Mitchell? Barclay? Adams? Bennett?

A fairly unlikable bunch.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

deadduck wrote:The trouble for National is who do they replace Bridges with?

Collins? Mitchell? Barclay? Adams? Bennett?

A fairly unlikable bunch.
Don't mind Mitchell

And he knows how to kill people which is always handy
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by TheDocForgotHisLogon »

Dark wrote:Bridges is onto a loser here

Half the press are now saying he is picking on a bloke with mental issues by saying he is full of it, complete with expert opinion and the other half are saying he isn't saying enough so looks shifty

What a train wreck


:lol:
Yeah it's a cluster.

The 'burning Bridges' thing will run and run. Peters found a song Burning Bridges and played it to the press gallery. Haha!

Bridges is fckued if for no other reason than people just don't like him and it's a good craic watching him crash and, ah, burn.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by TheDocForgotHisLogon »

deadduck wrote:The trouble for National is who do they replace Bridges with?

Collins? Mitchell? Barclay? Adams? Bennett?

A fairly unlikable bunch.
Bring Back Bill! Bring Back Bill! Bring Back Bill!
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Santa »

Hilarious. How to turn an irrelevance into a disaster. At this rate Cindy won't even need another pregnancy to distract from her incompetence.

Should be a fun few weeks. :lol:
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by TheDocForgotHisLogon »

Santa wrote:Hilarious. How to turn an irrelevance into a disaster. At this rate Cindy won't even need another pregnancy to distract from her incompetence.

Should be a fun few weeks. :lol:
Well that's where we're at. 18 years of world class - maybe even world-leading - government and here we are with a useless government and a worse opposition! Giddy up! it's going to be a wild ride.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by tubbyj »

Even as a long time leftie I can't say I think this is hilarious as it is kind of unprecedented in NZ politics to see this kind of raw meltdown and you have to worry about the long term mental health of both Ross and Bridges who will struggle to distance themselves from this in everything they do in their futures. The whole thing just seems tragically unfortunate. Almost House of Cards like in that it comes accross like two not two clever people have been set up and manipulated to destroy each other for someone elses gain.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Santa »

tubbyj wrote:Even as a long time leftie I can't say I think this is hilarious as it is kind of unprecedented in NZ politics to see this kind of raw meltdown and you have to worry about the long term mental health of both Ross and Bridges who will struggle to distance themselves from this in everything they do in their futures. The whole thing just seems tragically unfortunate. Almost House of Cards like in that it comes accross like two not two clever people have been set up and manipulated to destroy each other for someone elses gain.
Whether to be sympathetic or not is an interesting one. On one hand I think sorry chaps that's the game you're in and the way you've played it. On the other hand it's just not pleasant to see. I think I'm about 85%/15%.

If there is actual serious mental illness in there that might tip the balance for me quite a lot.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

Of course there’s a degree of unhealthy behaviour exhibited... one or both of them are going to struggle and the suggestion from Bridges that JLS is unhinged suggests perhaps both are rattling in the breeze a bit. There’s no joy to be had in that and my amusement is directed at the party and all who sailed in aboard the rusty leaking hell bucket. Seneca makes a decent point about maybe cleaning some rot out as a result... that would be a good outcome, otherwise it’s just a tragicomedy.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by grouch »

guy smiley wrote:Of course there’s a degree of unhealthy behaviour exhibited... one or both of them are going to struggle and the suggestion from Bridges that JLS is unhinged suggests perhaps both are rattling in the breeze a bit. There’s no joy to be had in that and my amusement is directed at the party and all who sailed in aboard the rusty leaking hell bucket. Seneca makes a decent point about maybe cleaning some rot out as a result... that would be a good outcome, otherwise it’s just a tragicomedy.
November 18 is the 40th anniversary of the Jonestown mass extinction , if I was a gnat I'd be very wary of any caucus meeting called that day.....

:uhoh:
Santa
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Santa »

Seneca of the Night wrote:
Santa wrote:
tubbyj wrote:Even as a long time leftie I can't say I think this is hilarious as it is kind of unprecedented in NZ politics to see this kind of raw meltdown and you have to worry about the long term mental health of both Ross and Bridges who will struggle to distance themselves from this in everything they do in their futures. The whole thing just seems tragically unfortunate. Almost House of Cards like in that it comes accross like two not two clever people have been set up and manipulated to destroy each other for someone elses gain.
Whether to be sympathetic or not is an interesting one. On one hand I think sorry chaps that's the game you're in and the way you've played it. On the other hand it's just not pleasant to see. I think I'm about 85%/15%.

If there is actual serious mental illness in there that might tip the balance for me quite a lot.
There might be some mental illness with jlr, though to recover in a week suggests it's a strange one. But what is more certain is that the country has been saved from a particularly fcked up and cretinous individual. And he may have opened the festering scab of Nationals links with China. Nationals top tier are third rate, and party head honchos have got.some work to do.
Yeah the top tier were basically held together by the quality of Key and English. I don't know much about the next rung down. That young woman we discussed earlier in the thread could be quality but she probably needs some seasoning. The problem is the talent that would naturally gravitate to national is being well paid elsewhere.
Labour on the other hand is probably probably operating much further up its quality scale. Which is quite funny really.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wilderbeast »

Chris Bishop is the talent in the wings. He’s biding his time though.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Maniototo Man »

TheDocForgotHisLogon wrote:Hilarious day. Thoughts:

- have to say JLR appeared credible on the TV news, and Bridges looks shifty (Paula would go down as well if JLR has the goods)
- suspect he might have broken the law himself taping conversations without consent - what effect that has who knows
- Newshub at least is already taking the position that you can't criticise JLR too hard as he's got mental health issues, which makes Bridges' defence rather difficult!
- Press smell blood in the water, they're going to go hard
- and after Labour and NZ First got away with it with little comment from the press, it'll be very interesting to see where the Polis goes with it - if it's a slam dunk they'll either have to prosecute and set a precedent (great IMO) or be consistent in ignoring all electoral / political stuff and put up with mass outrage from the press

Popcorn bought, sitting back in the lazyboy.
You are allowed to record a conversation you are part of without the other party's permission. It's when you record other people having conversations that you run into trouble - a la Todd Barclay.

JLR's bigger problem is that if the donation allegations prove true, he will become a party to that and will also be open to prosecution. He said as much during his presser yesterday.
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grouch
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by grouch »

Seneca of the Night wrote:
Santa wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Santa wrote:
tubbyj wrote:Even as a long time leftie I can't say I think this is hilarious as it is kind of unprecedented in NZ politics to see this kind of raw meltdown and you have to worry about the long term mental health of both Ross and Bridges who will struggle to distance themselves from this in everything they do in their futures. The whole thing just seems tragically unfortunate. Almost House of Cards like in that it comes accross like two not two clever people have been set up and manipulated to destroy each other for someone elses gain.
Whether to be sympathetic or not is an interesting one. On one hand I think sorry chaps that's the game you're in and the way you've played it. On the other hand it's just not pleasant to see. I think I'm about 85%/15%.

If there is actual serious mental illness in there that might tip the balance for me quite a lot.
There might be some mental illness with jlr, though to recover in a week suggests it's a strange one. But what is more certain is that the country has been saved from a particularly fcked up and cretinous individual. And he may have opened the festering scab of Nationals links with China. Nationals top tier are third rate, and party head honchos have got.some work to do.
Yeah the top tier were basically held together by the quality of Key and English. I don't know much about the next rung down. That young woman we discussed earlier in the thread could be quality but she probably needs some seasoning. The problem is the talent that would naturally gravitate to national is being well paid elsewhere.
Labour on the other hand is probably probably operating much further up its quality scale. Which is quite funny really.
Nicola Willis?

People who don't understand these things don't realise how good we had it with key and English. They really were that good.


Yes , need to give credit where its due.

Quite a coup really , making a bunch of talentless, visionless halfwits with an overgrown sense of entitlement look like a cohesive political movement.

Mind you ,the decades long influence of Michelle Boag is more likely the source of the discipline.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by True Blue »

Key and English had the respect of their peers, that is why. No one respects Bridges so his leadership suffers.

National is a mess, although I am inclined to believe them and not Ross (something really odd about that guy)
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

Maniototo Man wrote:
TheDocForgotHisLogon wrote:Hilarious day. Thoughts:

- have to say JLR appeared credible on the TV news, and Bridges looks shifty (Paula would go down as well if JLR has the goods)
- suspect he might have broken the law himself taping conversations without consent - what effect that has who knows
- Newshub at least is already taking the position that you can't criticise JLR too hard as he's got mental health issues, which makes Bridges' defence rather difficult!
- Press smell blood in the water, they're going to go hard
- and after Labour and NZ First got away with it with little comment from the press, it'll be very interesting to see where the Polis goes with it - if it's a slam dunk they'll either have to prosecute and set a precedent (great IMO) or be consistent in ignoring all electoral / political stuff and put up with mass outrage from the press

Popcorn bought, sitting back in the lazyboy.
You are allowed to record a conversation you are part of without the other party's permission. It's when you record other people having conversations that you run into trouble - a la Todd Barclay.

JLR's bigger problem is that if the donation allegations prove true, he will become a party to that and will also be open to prosecution. He said as much during his presser yesterday.
If Ross is a genuine whistle blower, or can be perceived as such, it's not a good look for National and Bridges to pillorying him.

As per above, National need to rebuild regardless, so if the have the gumption this could be just what they need.
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Gordon Bennett
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Gordon Bennett »

Wilderbeast wrote:Chris Bishop is the talent in the wings. He’s biding his time though.
He's my local MP and I've seen and chatted with him at several events over the years. Hard working, but I wouldn't see him as the sort of talent to be a successful PM or senior front bencher

Let's face it, the quality of the average MP is atrocious. Chris Bishop is not in that category, but if he's the best parliament has to offer now, then we're in real trouble.
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