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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:26 am 
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booji boy wrote:
TLDR.


More like TLCR


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:00 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
booji boy wrote:
TLDR.


More like TLCR



TBF Enz Slater is kinda boring and that article is kinda long.


I confess to giving up after the 8th paragraph

Can you just do a summary?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:59 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
booji boy wrote:
TLDR.


More like TLCR


To be quite honest I couldn't give a toss about these extreme loons on the left or right. No way I'm bothering to read that drivel. :yawn:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:15 am 
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Slater is worse than anyone on the left. He’s in his own category. Accepting money to deliberately assiassinate someone’s reputation is a pretty scum thing to do.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:50 am 
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I thought he had a stroke and was a vegetable now?

I see Bob McCoskrie is mobilizing his anti pot agenda. Why the hell does NZ politics attract so many weirdos? Garth MacVicar, Colin Craig, Brian Tamaki, Gareth Morgan, Cameron Slater.....I could probably list another 100 names if you include actual MPs, journalists, attention seekers. Most Kiwis are normal right?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:20 pm 
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National's new "all sizzle and no sausage" ad is causing outrage left, right and centre.

Quite literally.


It's a great piece of strategy to release an ad you know will troll so many people at once they won't stop complaining about it, and it will end up on every blog in the NZ political scene.

And it does a great job highlighting how stupid some of the reactions to it are. The Standard have called it out as abhorrently sexist, either due to the quite benign conversation between a man and a woman, or the tagline where Labour are said to have "no sausage". There has been accusations of mansplaining, promoting violence against women and I guess that implies being complicit in rape culture at some level too.

All this over a conversation about Kiwibuild at a barbecue.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:25 pm 
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deadduck wrote:
National's new "all sizzle and no sausage" ad is causing outrage left, right and centre.

Quite literally.


It's a great piece of strategy to release an ad you know will troll so many people at once they won't stop complaining about it, and it will end up on every blog in the NZ political scene.

And it does a great job highlighting how stupid some of the reactions to it are. The Standard have called it out as abhorrently sexist, either due to the quite benign conversation between a man and a woman, or the tagline where Labour are said to have "no sausage". There has been accusations of mansplaining, promoting violence against women and I guess that implies being complicit in rape culture at some level too.

All this over a conversation about Kiwibuild at a barbecue.


Got a link to the ad?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:25 pm 
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^^ It might be all over the blogosphere etc but the conversation is about all the wrong things, it’s about gender inequality, mansplaining etc, what it’s not about is the absolute failure that is Kiwibuild, which is where the conversation should be


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:37 pm 
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jambanja wrote:
^^ It might be all over the blogosphere etc but the conversation is about all the wrong things, it’s about gender inequality, mansplaining etc, what it’s not about is the absolute failure that is Kiwibuild, which is where the conversation should be

You would wonder whether Kiwibuild has any future all, given that a big proportion of tiny number of houses built have failed to attract buyers under the Kiwibuild model, and have had to put the open market.


Last edited by BillW on Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:38 pm 
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Kahu wrote:
I thought he had a stroke and was a vegetable now?

I see Bob McCoskrie is mobilizing his anti pot agenda. Why the hell does NZ politics attract so many weirdos? Garth MacVicar, Colin Craig, Brian Tamaki, Gareth Morgan, Cameron Slater.....I could probably list another 100 names if you include actual MPs, journalists, attention seekers. Most Kiwis are normal right?



This is an example of the bubbles people live in. These people think they're the normal ones.

Recently Golriz tweeted about how Sean Plunket and Jordan Peterson made laughable claims about what was "mainstream" and what was "woke left". She also proclaimed her own worldview as "modern thinking" which implies Plunket and Peterson are somehow old fashioned in their thinking.

Obviously Golriz is convinced she is in the mainstream, and they are on the far right. To her that makes her world view the "normal" one. Plunket and Peterson think they are in the mainstream and she is on the far left, so naturally they think their world view is the "normal" one.

We actually have a way to test this. How many people voted for the Greens? About 1 in 20.

"Conservatism" on the other hand is definitely mainstream in NZ. When basically 1 in 2 NZers are voting for the National party at the last election, that is the very definition of mainstream support. I wouldn't place Plunket or Peterson on the particularly right wing end of that group. McVicar, Craig and Tamaki I probably would but they're not in the party are they.

Golriz is falling into the very same trap that Hillary Clinton fell into when she slandered Trump's support base as "a basket of deplorables". Well that happened to be just enough people in that basket to win him the election. When will people like Golriz learn that while she continues to condemn people she disagrees with politically that she will never win them over. Attitudes like hers will forever see the Greens languishing about 5%.

I don't think you would ever hear Jacinda say anything negative about the general public at the other end of the political spectrum because she is shrewd enough to realise she needs their support to remain in government, and many of them already voted for her and would likely change back if she started abusing them.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:52 pm 
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jambanja wrote:
^^ It might be all over the blogosphere etc but the conversation is about all the wrong things, it’s about gender inequality, mansplaining etc, what it’s not about is the absolute failure that is Kiwibuild, which is where the conversation should be



The failure of Kiwibuild will snowball. It will be dredged up every time there is a story about property prices increasing, or rents increasing, or homelessness increasing.
Labour will continue to try and blame the previous government, but as time passes it will be more and more evident that there just isn't a government solution to this problem (or at least not a simple one), that Kiwibuild was all hot air from the get go. If Labour are in for a second term, which seems likely at this stage, their failure to own the housing issue will be a millstone for them in the 2023 election.

I called it back in 2015

deadduck wrote:
Anyone expecting a government to solve the problem of overvalued house prices is a dunce, plain and simple.

What is Labour's solution? KiwiBuild! Because that will have no negative impact on the housing economy. No. None whatsoever :roll:


And this week
Quote:
Reserve Bank Governor Adrian Orr has warned MPs that the Government's flagship KiwiBuild policy will have a significant "crowding out" impact on the private sector.

But Finance Minister Grant Robertson appeared to be at odds the central bank's estimates and said Orr's forecast was "certainly challengeable".

This morning, the Reserve Bank published a discussion document which projected that KiwiBuild would create an additional 7100 – 14,200 homes in New Zealand by 2022, above what was already expected.

"While KiwiBuild is assumed to contribute 100,000 affordable houses over 10 years, it is unlikely that this will be achieved without crowding out a significant amount of other residential construction activity, given the current and projected state of the construction sector," the Reserve Bank's KiwiBuild paper said.
Speaking to MPs at the Finance and Expenditure Select Committee, Orr said half to three-quarters of total house building in New Zealand would be crowded out by KiwiBuild.

"So if [KiwiBuild] was going to build 100 houses, that means that between 50 and 75 elsewhere aren't being built."


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:55 pm 
Mr Mike wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
Quote:
I dont like her general policies, but I can appreciate her "car club" crushing policies. These hoons normally have an hilarious "baby on board" hangover sticker as well as their affiliate club emblazoned on the back and front of their shitty souped up Altezzas.

Crush em all and let god sort en out! Absolute wankers


How many got crushed under that legislation - less than 10, wasn't it?


I think it's similar to the number of Kiwibuild houses built to date. ;)

I would avoid linking cars and houses, many would claim they were one and the same under National... ;)




😂


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:09 pm 
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Mr Mike wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
Quote:
I dont like her general policies, but I can appreciate her "car club" crushing policies. These hoons normally have an hilarious "baby on board" hangover sticker as well as their affiliate club emblazoned on the back and front of their shitty souped up Altezzas.

Crush em all and let god sort en out! Absolute wankers


How many got crushed under that legislation - less than 10, wasn't it?


I think it's similar to the number of Kiwibuild houses built to date. ;)

I would avoid linking cars and houses, many would claim they were one and the same under National... ;)

:lol: very good
Just on that though, where have all the homeless car dwelling people gone? Have they been housed and if so where, because last I looked we have a critical housing shortage, which by all accounts has not been fixed, if anything it’s got worse. So where are they? Are they in motel rooms still, the much maligned policy of the previous government, it’s weird that there is no mention of them these days


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:14 pm 
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Sssshhhhh!


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:35 pm 
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Quote:
:lol: very good
Just on that though, where have all the homeless car dwelling people gone? Have they been housed and if so where, because last I looked we have a critical housing shortage, which by all accounts has not been fixed, if anything it’s got worse. So where are they? Are they in motel rooms still, the much maligned policy of the previous government, it’s weird that there is no mention of them these days


They're still trying to count them I think.

But this doesn't look good.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/110117 ... ing-crisis

And is this the way to take the steam out of rent prices?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:42 am 
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BillW wrote:
Quote:
:lol: very good
Just on that though, where have all the homeless car dwelling people gone? Have they been housed and if so where, because last I looked we have a critical housing shortage, which by all accounts has not been fixed, if anything it’s got worse. So where are they? Are they in motel rooms still, the much maligned policy of the previous government, it’s weird that there is no mention of them these days


They're still trying to count them I think.

But this doesn't look good.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/110117 ... ing-crisis

And is this the way to take the steam out of rent prices?



Here was me thinking Goff did a homeless census not long ago after Labours pre-election calls of a homeless "CRISIS!!!!" (amongst their many other calls of "CRISIS!!!!") and thousands of homeless in Auckland, and the count came to 336, including people in cars.


This they magically extrapolated into 800

http://ourauckland.aucklandcouncil.govt ... t-results/

Strangely Labour have stopped talking about the homeless since the election..........or any "CRISES!!!!"

Much like Ardern hasn't mentioned her demand for a zero target to suicides, she promised, while crying over all the shoes.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:18 am 
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deadduck wrote:
National's new "all sizzle and no sausage" ad is causing outrage left, right and centre.

Quite literally.


It's a great piece of strategy to release an ad you know will troll so many people at once they won't stop complaining about it, and it will end up on every blog in the NZ political scene.

And it does a great job highlighting how stupid some of the reactions to it are. The Standard have called it out as abhorrently sexist, either due to the quite benign conversation between a man and a woman, or the tagline where Labour are said to have "no sausage". There has been accusations of mansplaining, promoting violence against women and I guess that implies being complicit in rape culture at some level too.

All this over a conversation about Kiwibuild at a barbecue.


I think you’re giving National too much credit to say this was intended to rile up the left. I think it was badly played by National but the left falling over themselves to criticise it was a particularly poor response.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:25 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
deadduck wrote:
National's new "all sizzle and no sausage" ad is causing outrage left, right and centre.

Quite literally.


It's a great piece of strategy to release an ad you know will troll so many people at once they won't stop complaining about it, and it will end up on every blog in the NZ political scene.

And it does a great job highlighting how stupid some of the reactions to it are. The Standard have called it out as abhorrently sexist, either due to the quite benign conversation between a man and a woman, or the tagline where Labour are said to have "no sausage". There has been accusations of mansplaining, promoting violence against women and I guess that implies being complicit in rape culture at some level too.

All this over a conversation about Kiwibuild at a barbecue.


I think you’re giving National too much credit to say this was intended to rile up the left. I think it was badly played by National but the left falling over themselves to criticise it was a particularly poor response.


Disagree tbf. With the shiteness production of the ad it just gave the left a perfect topic to take peoples minds off the actual content of the ad.

Everyone is talking about sexism and not the failure of Kiwibuild

Nat's fail with ad

Labour win with outcome of failure


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:32 am 
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Agree, the ad was absolute cringe x(


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:48 am 
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The add is cringe worthy. And has distracted from the message. They should have had a women explaining it to a man. We see other adverts every day were that's perfectly acceptable.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:51 am 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
The add is cringe worthy. And has distracted from the message. They should have had a women explaining it to a man. We see other adverts every day were that's perfectly acceptable.


The worst bit is, that is such a stupidly obvious mistake the left were going to take an advantage of and none of the current idiots on the right making it thought of it.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:33 am 
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booji boy wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
booji boy wrote:
TLDR.


More like TLCR


To be quite honest I couldn't give a toss about these extreme loons on the left or right. No way I'm bothering to read that drivel. :yawn:


That is what I also meant.

It's strange now that most "news" outlets give a vehicle for this drivel (left or right as you say) and feed off the moral indignation and PC outrage.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:39 am 
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Yeah they where completely oblivious...

2019 Nats in a fcuking nutshell :blush:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:45 am 
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Dark wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
The add is cringe worthy. And has distracted from the message. They should have had a women explaining it to a man. We see other adverts every day were that's perfectly acceptable.


The worst bit is, that is such a stupidly obvious mistake the left were going to take an advantage of and none of the current idiots on the right making it thought of it.


You guys are overthinking it. It was a political ad which is barely noticed (and never mentioned) by the general population.

Waste of money making it (preaching to the converted) and a waste of breath being upset by it (plenty of things to get really upset about).

I wish I could bang heads on both sides and say "grow the hell up".

Why don't National come up with what their policy is to deal with the housing crisis (and booming rents) is? Now that they have fuck all else to do they should have the time to do better than just deny it.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:48 am 
It’s not a ‘crisis’ when so many of their backers have made money out of the bubble .


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:51 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
Dark wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
The add is cringe worthy. And has distracted from the message. They should have had a women explaining it to a man. We see other adverts every day were that's perfectly acceptable.


The worst bit is, that is such a stupidly obvious mistake the left were going to take an advantage of and none of the current idiots on the right making it thought of it.


You guys are overthinking it. It was a political ad which is barely noticed (and never mentioned) by the general population.

Waste of money making it (preaching to the converted) and a waste of breath being upset by it (plenty of things to get really upset about).

I wish I could bang heads on both sides and say "grow the hell up".

Why don't National come up with what their policy is to deal with the housing crisis (and booming rents) is? Now that they have fuck all else to do they should have the time to do better than just deny it.


While I agree, the age old problem is big "hopefully solving" policy won't be announced till election year.

The opposition will always fear the other lot taking any good ones and running with it earlier otherwise.

Wouldn't surprise me if Labour grab the bracket creep one as soon as their Tax inquiry is released for instance


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:55 am 
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eugenius wrote:
It’s not a ‘crisis’ when so many of their backers have made money out of the bubble .



Plenty of Labour voters own multiple homes Eug'

In fact. Pleanty of Labour MP's have done well, quietly in the background.

Last time there was a pecuniary interest report on Helen Clark she owned 6 houses.

Nat voters don't have a monopoly on what you seem to interpret as greed


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:00 am 
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For those of you who want to have a look, the list of pecuniary interests is here: https://www.parliament.nz/media/4798/su ... -final.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:45 am 
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Ghost-Of-Nepia wrote:
For those of you who want to have a look, the list of pecuniary interests is here: https://www.parliament.nz/media/4798/su ... -final.pdf



There is one thing I have always wanted to know.

How many MP's FROM ALL PARTIES, have shares in Fletcher Building.

Because it would be quite interesting to see alongside contracts handed out


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:48 am 
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Dark wrote:
Ghost-Of-Nepia wrote:
For those of you who want to have a look, the list of pecuniary interests is here: https://www.parliament.nz/media/4798/su ... -final.pdf



There is one thing I have always wanted to know.

How many MP's FROM ALL PARTIES, have shares in Fletcher Building.

Because it would be quite interesting to see alongside contracts handed out

Hasn't helped Fletchers.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:52 am 
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BillW wrote:
Dark wrote:
Ghost-Of-Nepia wrote:
For those of you who want to have a look, the list of pecuniary interests is here: https://www.parliament.nz/media/4798/su ... -final.pdf



There is one thing I have always wanted to know.

How many MP's FROM ALL PARTIES, have shares in Fletcher Building.

Because it would be quite interesting to see alongside contracts handed out

Hasn't helped Fletchers.



ATM

But there were a shed load of years making a shed load of money


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:21 am 
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Ghost-Of-Nepia wrote:
For those of you who want to have a look, the list of pecuniary interests is here: https://www.parliament.nz/media/4798/su ... -final.pdf


Some quality in there, but it shows there's the full range on the wealth spectrum in parliament (at least in simplistic terms)

Here's a couple of gems.

GIFTS: "An alcohol drinking flask in the form of what seems to be a sheep or a goat (quite difficult to identify the species) made of a form of dark or green-coloured material, possibly bronze or iron – visiting delegation from the Supreme People’s Court of the People’s Republic of China"

EMPLOYMENT: "Media Works Limited – celebrity dancer"


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:25 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
Dark wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
The add is cringe worthy. And has distracted from the message. They should have had a women explaining it to a man. We see other adverts every day were that's perfectly acceptable.


The worst bit is, that is such a stupidly obvious mistake the left were going to take an advantage of and none of the current idiots on the right making it thought of it.


You guys are overthinking it. It was a political ad which is barely noticed (and never mentioned) by the general population.

Waste of money making it (preaching to the converted) and a waste of breath being upset by it (plenty of things to get really upset about).

I wish I could bang heads on both sides and say "grow the hell up".

Why don't National come up with what their policy is to deal with the housing crisis (and booming rents) is? Now that they have fuck all else to do they should have the time to do better than just deny it.


Beyond thinking the ad is a bit shit, and the "controversy" is a bit hypocritical, I haven't really put any thought to it.

I agree whole heartily with the "grow the hell up". Parliament resembles a kindergarten far too often.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:41 am 
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Most people don't really care. The outrage from slighting minority groups or the holding up of the Patriarchy doesn't engage them.

Most people are concerned with putting food on the plates of themselves and their families. Cold, hard reality is what drives most of us. The add is successful simply because of the outrage, if there was nothing to spark interest it would have drifted into obscurity, the outrage insures that more people watch it. Regardless of it's production value these new eyes will make their own interpretation. And that is the whole point, to get people talking about it.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:18 pm 
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There’s a term for outrage and scandal that only political types get excited over and the regular public doesn’t give a shit about isn’t there? Something about the Wellington town belt?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:51 pm 
Dark wrote:
eugenius wrote:
It’s not a ‘crisis’ when so many of their backers have made money out of the bubble .



Plenty of Labour voters own multiple homes Eug'

In fact. Pleanty of Labour MP's have done well, quietly in the background.

Last time there was a pecuniary interest report on Helen Clark she owned 6 houses.

Nat voters don't have a monopoly on what you seem to interpret as greed



Not debating that , however few real estate agents or serious property developers vote for anything that might question the almighty market .

The majority of renters vote Labour .


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:25 pm 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
There’s a term for outrage and scandal that only political types get excited over and the regular public doesn’t give a shit about isn’t there? Something about the Wellington town belt?


Inside and outside the "beltway". That's not an NZ creation though - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_the_Beltway


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:41 pm 
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:thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:55 pm 
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Dark wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
The add is cringe worthy. And has distracted from the message. They should have had a women explaining it to a man. We see other adverts every day were that's perfectly acceptable.


The worst bit is, that is such a stupidly obvious mistake the left were going to take an advantage of and none of the current idiots on the right making it thought of it.


I'd be interested to hear who amongst the past idiots on the right would have done any better.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:17 pm 
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I wonder which MP’s actually see it before it goes out. I feel a fair few would’ve picked up on it immediately. Any of the woman would have, though Collins would likely not care as she liked the message so much.


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