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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:51 am 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
The add is cringe worthy. And has distracted from the message. They should have had a women explaining it to a man. We see other adverts every day were that's perfectly acceptable.


The worst bit is, that is such a stupidly obvious mistake the left were going to take an advantage of and none of the current idiots on the right making it thought of it.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:33 am 
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booji boy wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
booji boy wrote:
TLDR.


More like TLCR


To be quite honest I couldn't give a toss about these extreme loons on the left or right. No way I'm bothering to read that drivel. :yawn:


That is what I also meant.

It's strange now that most "news" outlets give a vehicle for this drivel (left or right as you say) and feed off the moral indignation and PC outrage.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:39 am 
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Yeah they where completely oblivious...

2019 Nats in a fcuking nutshell :blush:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:45 am 
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Dark wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
The add is cringe worthy. And has distracted from the message. They should have had a women explaining it to a man. We see other adverts every day were that's perfectly acceptable.


The worst bit is, that is such a stupidly obvious mistake the left were going to take an advantage of and none of the current idiots on the right making it thought of it.


You guys are overthinking it. It was a political ad which is barely noticed (and never mentioned) by the general population.

Waste of money making it (preaching to the converted) and a waste of breath being upset by it (plenty of things to get really upset about).

I wish I could bang heads on both sides and say "grow the hell up".

Why don't National come up with what their policy is to deal with the housing crisis (and booming rents) is? Now that they have fuck all else to do they should have the time to do better than just deny it.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:48 am 
It’s not a ‘crisis’ when so many of their backers have made money out of the bubble .


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:51 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
Dark wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
The add is cringe worthy. And has distracted from the message. They should have had a women explaining it to a man. We see other adverts every day were that's perfectly acceptable.


The worst bit is, that is such a stupidly obvious mistake the left were going to take an advantage of and none of the current idiots on the right making it thought of it.


You guys are overthinking it. It was a political ad which is barely noticed (and never mentioned) by the general population.

Waste of money making it (preaching to the converted) and a waste of breath being upset by it (plenty of things to get really upset about).

I wish I could bang heads on both sides and say "grow the hell up".

Why don't National come up with what their policy is to deal with the housing crisis (and booming rents) is? Now that they have fuck all else to do they should have the time to do better than just deny it.


While I agree, the age old problem is big "hopefully solving" policy won't be announced till election year.

The opposition will always fear the other lot taking any good ones and running with it earlier otherwise.

Wouldn't surprise me if Labour grab the bracket creep one as soon as their Tax inquiry is released for instance


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:55 am 
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eugenius wrote:
It’s not a ‘crisis’ when so many of their backers have made money out of the bubble .



Plenty of Labour voters own multiple homes Eug'

In fact. Pleanty of Labour MP's have done well, quietly in the background.

Last time there was a pecuniary interest report on Helen Clark she owned 6 houses.

Nat voters don't have a monopoly on what you seem to interpret as greed


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:00 am 
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For those of you who want to have a look, the list of pecuniary interests is here: https://www.parliament.nz/media/4798/su ... -final.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:45 am 
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Ghost-Of-Nepia wrote:
For those of you who want to have a look, the list of pecuniary interests is here: https://www.parliament.nz/media/4798/su ... -final.pdf



There is one thing I have always wanted to know.

How many MP's FROM ALL PARTIES, have shares in Fletcher Building.

Because it would be quite interesting to see alongside contracts handed out


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:48 am 
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Dark wrote:
Ghost-Of-Nepia wrote:
For those of you who want to have a look, the list of pecuniary interests is here: https://www.parliament.nz/media/4798/su ... -final.pdf



There is one thing I have always wanted to know.

How many MP's FROM ALL PARTIES, have shares in Fletcher Building.

Because it would be quite interesting to see alongside contracts handed out

Hasn't helped Fletchers.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:52 am 
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BillW wrote:
Dark wrote:
Ghost-Of-Nepia wrote:
For those of you who want to have a look, the list of pecuniary interests is here: https://www.parliament.nz/media/4798/su ... -final.pdf



There is one thing I have always wanted to know.

How many MP's FROM ALL PARTIES, have shares in Fletcher Building.

Because it would be quite interesting to see alongside contracts handed out

Hasn't helped Fletchers.



ATM

But there were a shed load of years making a shed load of money


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:21 am 
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Ghost-Of-Nepia wrote:
For those of you who want to have a look, the list of pecuniary interests is here: https://www.parliament.nz/media/4798/su ... -final.pdf


Some quality in there, but it shows there's the full range on the wealth spectrum in parliament (at least in simplistic terms)

Here's a couple of gems.

GIFTS: "An alcohol drinking flask in the form of what seems to be a sheep or a goat (quite difficult to identify the species) made of a form of dark or green-coloured material, possibly bronze or iron – visiting delegation from the Supreme People’s Court of the People’s Republic of China"

EMPLOYMENT: "Media Works Limited – celebrity dancer"


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:25 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
Dark wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
The add is cringe worthy. And has distracted from the message. They should have had a women explaining it to a man. We see other adverts every day were that's perfectly acceptable.


The worst bit is, that is such a stupidly obvious mistake the left were going to take an advantage of and none of the current idiots on the right making it thought of it.


You guys are overthinking it. It was a political ad which is barely noticed (and never mentioned) by the general population.

Waste of money making it (preaching to the converted) and a waste of breath being upset by it (plenty of things to get really upset about).

I wish I could bang heads on both sides and say "grow the hell up".

Why don't National come up with what their policy is to deal with the housing crisis (and booming rents) is? Now that they have fuck all else to do they should have the time to do better than just deny it.


Beyond thinking the ad is a bit shit, and the "controversy" is a bit hypocritical, I haven't really put any thought to it.

I agree whole heartily with the "grow the hell up". Parliament resembles a kindergarten far too often.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:41 am 
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Most people don't really care. The outrage from slighting minority groups or the holding up of the Patriarchy doesn't engage them.

Most people are concerned with putting food on the plates of themselves and their families. Cold, hard reality is what drives most of us. The add is successful simply because of the outrage, if there was nothing to spark interest it would have drifted into obscurity, the outrage insures that more people watch it. Regardless of it's production value these new eyes will make their own interpretation. And that is the whole point, to get people talking about it.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:18 pm 
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There’s a term for outrage and scandal that only political types get excited over and the regular public doesn’t give a shit about isn’t there? Something about the Wellington town belt?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:51 pm 
Dark wrote:
eugenius wrote:
It’s not a ‘crisis’ when so many of their backers have made money out of the bubble .



Plenty of Labour voters own multiple homes Eug'

In fact. Pleanty of Labour MP's have done well, quietly in the background.

Last time there was a pecuniary interest report on Helen Clark she owned 6 houses.

Nat voters don't have a monopoly on what you seem to interpret as greed



Not debating that , however few real estate agents or serious property developers vote for anything that might question the almighty market .

The majority of renters vote Labour .


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:25 pm 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
There’s a term for outrage and scandal that only political types get excited over and the regular public doesn’t give a shit about isn’t there? Something about the Wellington town belt?


Inside and outside the "beltway". That's not an NZ creation though - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_the_Beltway


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:41 pm 
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:thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:55 pm 
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Dark wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
The add is cringe worthy. And has distracted from the message. They should have had a women explaining it to a man. We see other adverts every day were that's perfectly acceptable.


The worst bit is, that is such a stupidly obvious mistake the left were going to take an advantage of and none of the current idiots on the right making it thought of it.


I'd be interested to hear who amongst the past idiots on the right would have done any better.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:17 pm 
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I wonder which MP’s actually see it before it goes out. I feel a fair few would’ve picked up on it immediately. Any of the woman would have, though Collins would likely not care as she liked the message so much.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:51 pm 
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It's a strange world we live in. I saw several adverts on TV last night where men are shown as being idiot's and women as being smarter. One in particular where the women puts the man in his place by correcting him. Yet they don't generate any level of outrage.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:20 am 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
It's a strange world we live in. I saw several adverts on TV last night where men are shown as being idiot's and women as being smarter. One in particular where the women puts the man in his place by correcting him. Yet they don't generate any level of outrage.


No, it’s the narrative of the day. But at least some marketers can read it. Maybe National should approach them?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:22 am 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
It's a strange world we live in. I saw several adverts on TV last night where men are shown as being idiot's and women as being smarter. One in particular where the women puts the man in his place by correcting him. Yet they don't generate any level of outrage.

That's just your toxic masculinity asserting itself FOG.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:46 am 
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Tbh, it never used to bother me at all, and I didn't really give it a second thought. Then I started raising a son and started considering what message he might be picking up.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:03 am 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
Tbh, it never used to bother me at all, and I didn't really give it a second thought. Then I started raising a son and started considering what message he might be picking up.


Kids will make you question everything.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:07 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
Tbh, it never used to bother me at all, and I didn't really give it a second thought. Then I started raising a son and started considering what message he might be picking up.


Kids will make you question everything.


Very true. You look at everything differently. I remember how our nice comfortable home transformed overnight into a den of dangerous hazards with sharp corners etc. everywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:24 am 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
Tbh, it never used to bother me at all, and I didn't really give it a second thought. Then I started raising a son and started considering what message he might be picking up.


Kids will make you question everything.


Very true. You look at everything differently. I remember how our nice comfortable home transformed overnight into a den of dangerous hazards with sharp corners etc. everywhere.


I still freak out when I see choke hazards within reach, despite my daughter giving up putting everything off the floor in her mouth several months ago.

The filters I apply to what I say are ridiculous, and even then I don’t think I do enough.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:09 am 
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Hurry up Jacinda - where're the trees you promised?

Spoiler: show
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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:50 am 
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Ghost-Of-Nepia wrote:
For those of you who want to have a look, the list of pecuniary interests is here: https://www.parliament.nz/media/4798/su ... -final.pdf


Nathan Guy seems to be doing well for himself.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:50 pm 
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Enzedder wrote:
Hurry up Jacinda - where're the trees you promised?

Spoiler: show
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:lol: Very good.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:55 pm 
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So let me get this straight. National do some lame arse advertisement (which I haven't seen BTW) taking the piss out of Labour's under achieving Kiwibuild program and it's being panned because it's sexist? FFS! :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:03 pm 
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Politics 101. Always wind a way to distract from the issue at hand.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:13 pm 
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booji boy wrote:
So let me get this straight. National do some lame arse advertisement (which I haven't seen BTW) taking the piss out of Labour's under achieving Kiwibuild program and it's being panned because it's sexist? FFS! :roll:


The fact that kiwibuild is shit doesn’t give you leeway to be sexist (let’s assume it is for the sake of this argument).


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:16 pm 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
booji boy wrote:
So let me get this straight. National do some lame arse advertisement (which I haven't seen BTW) taking the piss out of Labour's under achieving Kiwibuild program and it's being panned because it's sexist? FFS! :roll:


The fact that kiwibuild is shit doesn’t give you leeway to be sexist (let’s assume it is for the sake of this argument).


Let's not assume for the sake of argument

This argument tends to rely on said ad being sexist, and this bit is extremely arguable.

Bearing in mind we are living in an age where the opposition just calling Ardern "weak" got cries of extreme sexism.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:22 pm 
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It's a pretty shit world where a man explaining something to a woman is automatically sexist. If they had two men, and the same words were used, would it still be mansplaining?

If the roles were reversed, would it be manshaming?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:22 pm 
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Dark wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
booji boy wrote:
So let me get this straight. National do some lame arse advertisement (which I haven't seen BTW) taking the piss out of Labour's under achieving Kiwibuild program and it's being panned because it's sexist? FFS! :roll:


The fact that kiwibuild is shit doesn’t give you leeway to be sexist (let’s assume it is for the sake of this argument).


Let's not assume for the sake of argument

This argument tends to rely on said ad being sexist, and this bit is extremely arguable.

Bearing in mind we are living in an age where the opposition just calling Ardern "weak" got cries of extreme sexism.


The ad features a blonde being wide eyed and clueless, it is kind of sexist. And while we're on the subject of sexism, I'd like to give her a sausage.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:26 pm 
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deadduck wrote:
It's a pretty shit world where a man explaining something to a woman is automatically sexist. If they had two men, and the same words were used, would it still be mansplaining?

If the roles were reversed, would it be manshaming?


Well that's just the context of the world we live in. There used to be an ad where a guy didn't put his number in the yellow pages and ended up prison with a burly prisoner with the suggestion he was about to get raped. Probably couldn't get away with reversing the sex of that character.

Mansplaining cries do get annoying, but I'm sure any ad agency would be aware of the pitfalls of portraying your female character as gullible and naive and your male characters as clued in. But looking at the production quality, I doubt they went to an actual ad agency.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:46 pm 
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It's those old, white, middle class males again.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:47 pm 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Dark wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
booji boy wrote:
So let me get this straight. National do some lame arse advertisement (which I haven't seen BTW) taking the piss out of Labour's under achieving Kiwibuild program and it's being panned because it's sexist? FFS! :roll:


The fact that kiwibuild is shit doesn’t give you leeway to be sexist (let’s assume it is for the sake of this argument).


Let's not assume for the sake of argument

This argument tends to rely on said ad being sexist, and this bit is extremely arguable.

Bearing in mind we are living in an age where the opposition just calling Ardern "weak" got cries of extreme sexism.


The ad features a blonde being wide eyed and clueless, it is kind of sexist. And while we're on the subject of sexism, I'd like to give her a sausage.


It's not sexist, please. There's an ad on at the moment, travel agency one I think, where an attractive woman, engages with a man who is deliberately made to look both sleazy and dumb in a showoffy way by said attractive woman, where's the outcry?

Did the trivago girl get the job because of her bubbly personality or was it something else? Personally, I'm going with personality, both of them, but others might have a different view


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:53 pm 
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jambanja wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Dark wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
booji boy wrote:
So let me get this straight. National do some lame arse advertisement (which I haven't seen BTW) taking the piss out of Labour's under achieving Kiwibuild program and it's being panned because it's sexist? FFS! :roll:


The fact that kiwibuild is shit doesn’t give you leeway to be sexist (let’s assume it is for the sake of this argument).


Let's not assume for the sake of argument

This argument tends to rely on said ad being sexist, and this bit is extremely arguable.

Bearing in mind we are living in an age where the opposition just calling Ardern "weak" got cries of extreme sexism.


The ad features a blonde being wide eyed and clueless, it is kind of sexist. And while we're on the subject of sexism, I'd like to give her a sausage.


It's not sexist, please. There's an ad on at the moment, travel agency one I think, where an attractive woman, engages with a man who is deliberately made to look both sleazy and dumb in a showoffy way by said attractive woman, where's the outcry?

Did the trivago girl get the job because of her bubbly personality or was it something else? Personally, I'm going with personality, both of them, but others might have a different view


It's not sexist only if you ignore decades of actual sexism & pretend dumb blonde female stereotypes aren't a thing. Yes, that travel agency ad is 'reverse sexist' but - like that prison rape example I gave earlier - you can get away with that when you're punching up (even though the ad is also terrible and lazy). Like I said, ad agencies know this.

Btw, it's also patent bollocks for another reason, I booked my family flights and hotels for a trip to Fiji and saved like $2K on what the travel agency had quoted.


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