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Whos Going to Lead the Labor Rabble
Albo 36%  36%  [ 5 ]
Plibbers 7%  7%  [ 1 ]
Bowen 7%  7%  [ 1 ]
Chalmers 29%  29%  [ 4 ]
Uncle Tony 7%  7%  [ 1 ]
Clive Palmer 14%  14%  [ 2 ]
George Smith 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 14
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:52 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.

Being an effective operator in the parliament is not the same as being PM.

Let's say Penny Wong was a bloke. It's not the case, but let's say she's a fifth generation Australian white bloke in a safe lower house seat, just for the sake of argument to take out all those factors ... She still wouldn't be a good candidate for the ALP driver's seat. Too punchy, too aggressive, too partisan. Too snarky.

I love a good snark more than anyone, but it's a different personality.

But by all means if the ALP want to put her in as party leader, I'm willing to take bets on how she goes.

Clogs, you up m8?


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:56 am 
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I stopped following politics closely a decade or two ago. I watched the ABC's coverage and thought Penny Wong's performance was underwhelming. Whilst there is very little doubt she is intelligent, she didn't come across as particularly convincing. Her predominant response is to bag the Libs rather than to push her own agenda. Sinonidis came across well as he did the opposite.

As a communicator she seems to lose her train of thought very regularly - almost every paragraph. Obviously she must go alright in front of the political class but I doubt she'd have widespread appeal to the typical disinterested voter based on the very small sample of her that i've seen.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:57 am 
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:lol: :lol: :thumbup:

I'm like you I think.. I like some punchy in my pollie, so to speak. I'm guessing the ALP will go with yet another scripted performer and people will compare degrees of charisma gain measured in millisimpers.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:03 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
_fatprop wrote:
We treat all our politicians badly, it is one area of true equality


I can't agree with you there mate, in this context. Australia treats women poorly and women in politics extremely poorly. There's no equality apparent. No male PM has ever had a radio announcer suggest he should be tied in a chaff bag and dumped at sea. No male pollie has ever had to deal with the ongoing campaign of harassment that Sarah Hansen Young deals with regularly. There are other examples but there's two easy ones off the bat.

I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.




And I happen to think right there is where part of the problem lies. Australia does not treat women poorly. That is a truly appalling statement.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:04 am 
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kiap wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.

Being an effective operator in the parliament is not the same as being PM.

Let's say Penny Wong was a bloke. It's not the case, but let's say she's a fifth generation Australian white bloke in a safe lower house seat, just for the sake of argument to take out all those factors ... She still wouldn't be a good candidate for the ALP driver's seat. Too punchy, too aggressive, too partisan. Too snarky.

I love a good snark more than anyone, but it's a different personality.

But by all means if the ALP want to put her in as party leader, I'm willing to take bets on how she goes.

Clogs, you up m8?



Present and accounted for.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:09 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
_fatprop wrote:
We treat all our politicians badly, it is one area of true equality


I can't agree with you there mate, in this context. Australia treats women poorly and women in politics extremely poorly. There's no equality apparent. No male PM has ever had a radio announcer suggest he should be tied in a chaff bag and dumped at sea. No male pollie has ever had to deal with the ongoing campaign of harassment that Sarah Hansen Young deals with regularly. There are other examples but there's two easy ones off the bat.


Oh they get treated badly, but most pollies do, which is my point. Neither was treated any worse than Hanson, Dutton or Abbott - just badly in different ways. Stick your head up and it will be kicked for whatever weakness can be perceived

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I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.


I don't see Wong as an option outside the inner city, I don't think she can fake empathy well enough to deal with areas outside her safety zone


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:10 am 
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Clogs wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
_fatprop wrote:
We treat all our politicians badly, it is one area of true equality


I can't agree with you there mate, in this context. Australia treats women poorly and women in politics extremely poorly. There's no equality apparent. No male PM has ever had a radio announcer suggest he should be tied in a chaff bag and dumped at sea. No male pollie has ever had to deal with the ongoing campaign of harassment that Sarah Hansen Young deals with regularly. There are other examples but there's two easy ones off the bat.

I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.




And I happen to think right there is where part of the problem lies. Australia does not treat women poorly. That is a truly appalling statement.


Are you happy with the rate of death due to domestic violence in Australia, Clogs? Do you think that's ok? Do you think that the overall rate of sexual assault and abuse that women suffer is ok as well? Are you happy with the notion that most of the women you know probably don't feel safe walking down a street at night, or even just going out in everyday life? That most of them will admit to always being on watch for threats, to always being careful not to say anything that will be interpreted as permission for unwanted attention?

Are thse concepts in line with women not being treated poorly, to you?


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:17 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Clogs wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
_fatprop wrote:
We treat all our politicians badly, it is one area of true equality


I can't agree with you there mate, in this context. Australia treats women poorly and women in politics extremely poorly. There's no equality apparent. No male PM has ever had a radio announcer suggest he should be tied in a chaff bag and dumped at sea. No male pollie has ever had to deal with the ongoing campaign of harassment that Sarah Hansen Young deals with regularly. There are other examples but there's two easy ones off the bat.

I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.




And I happen to think right there is where part of the problem lies. Australia does not treat women poorly. That is a truly appalling statement.


Are you happy with the rate of death due to domestic violence in Australia, Clogs? Do you think that's ok? Do you think that the overall rate of sexual assault and abuse that women suffer is ok as well? Are you happy with the notion that most of the women you know probably don't feel safe walking down a street at night, or even just going out in everyday life? That most of them will admit to always being on watch for threats, to always being careful not to say anything that will be interpreted as permission for unwanted attention?

Are thse concepts in line with women not being treated poorly, to you?


Seconded...


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:01 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Are you happy with the rate of death due to domestic violence in Australia, Clogs? Do you think that's ok? Do you think that the overall rate of sexual assault and abuse that women suffer is ok as well? Are you happy with the notion that most of the women you know probably don't feel safe walking down a street at night, or even just going out in everyday life? That most of them will admit to always being on watch for threats, to always being careful not to say anything that will be interpreted as permission for unwanted attention?

Are thse concepts in line with women not being treated poorly, to you?


It is all relative mate, it is so much better than it used to be, but clearly not perfect and never, ever will be

As to feeling safe at night, everyone should have situational awareness and make good decisions to limit risk. The weak will always be preyed on.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:01 am 
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Majority for Morrison confirmed with win in Chisholm: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/federal-election-2019-pm-frydenberg-meet-to-talk-tax-cuts/news-story/7b5ac5958a000c256af76f9f80f1e194


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:10 am 
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I don't think gender is as big an issue as people make it out to be. Gillard got some rough shit thrown her way. But Crazy Tony in speedos just garners a few laughs. Imagine if it was jolly Julia in a bikini or something.

guy smiley wrote:

I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.


I don't think Wong is very good in debates at all. Far too often she goes after the person and ignores the actual issue they are talking about.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:21 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Clogs wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
_fatprop wrote:
We treat all our politicians badly, it is one area of true equality


I can't agree with you there mate, in this context. Australia treats women poorly and women in politics extremely poorly. There's no equality apparent. No male PM has ever had a radio announcer suggest he should be tied in a chaff bag and dumped at sea. No male pollie has ever had to deal with the ongoing campaign of harassment that Sarah Hansen Young deals with regularly. There are other examples but there's two easy ones off the bat.

I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.




And I happen to think right there is where part of the problem lies. Australia does not treat women poorly. That is a truly appalling statement.


Are you happy with the rate of death due to domestic violence in Australia, Clogs? Do you think that's ok? Do you think that the overall rate of sexual assault and abuse that women suffer is ok as well? Are you happy with the notion that most of the women you know probably don't feel safe walking down a street at night, or even just going out in everyday life? That most of them will admit to always being on watch for threats, to always being careful not to say anything that will be interpreted as permission for unwanted attention?

Are thse concepts in line with women not being treated poorly, to you?



Erm, you seem happy to make a gross generalisation (women are treated poorly in Australia), and then quickly try and narrow your argument down to prove your point with a bit of virtue signalling. If you want to generalise then here are some useful stats. The Australian homicide rate is extremely low. 1 in 100 000. This points to Australia being a remarkably safe place to live. For all citizens. Men and women.

Domestic violence is appalling. Statistics show that some 16% of all women (over 15 years old) have experienced physical or sexual violence. 16 out of every 100. That number is still crazy high, but guy, it is a long long way off your claim that women are treated poorly in Australia. Only 6% of men (over 15 years old) have suffered physical or sexual violence.

This is sourced from the Australian government:
https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/domesti ... ts/summary

Remarkably however, when you look at all physical assaults, 2.4 in 100 000 against men, and 2.3 in 100 000 against women.

Yet even with the domestic violence at an unacceptable level, more men are killed than women. I think it is as high as 70% of all homicide victims are men. So in general terms, women are far more at risk of domestic violence, men and women suffer equally with physical violence and men are far more at risk of being killed than women. Does that mean men and women are treated poorly in Australia? No it does not. Men and women are treated exceptionally well in Australia. Men and women in Australia have access to some of the best education and healthcare anywhere on the planet.

I say again, women are not treated poorly in Australia. Certainly some women suffer terribly. So do some men. But in general? Men and women have fantastic lives in Australia.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:23 am 
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Sensible Stephen wrote:
I don't think gender is as big an issue as people make it out to be. Gillard got some rough shit thrown her way. But Crazy Tony in speedos just garners a few laughs. Imagine if it was jolly Julia in a bikini or something.

guy smiley wrote:

I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.


I don't think Wong is very good in debates at all. Far too often she goes after the person and ignores the actual issue they are talking about.


I think the opposite but I've seen quite a bit of her operating in Senate Estimates committees where she is formidable.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:31 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Sensible Stephen wrote:
I don't think gender is as big an issue as people make it out to be. Gillard got some rough shit thrown her way. But Crazy Tony in speedos just garners a few laughs. Imagine if it was jolly Julia in a bikini or something.

guy smiley wrote:

I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.


I don't think Wong is very good in debates at all. Far too often she goes after the person and ignores the actual issue they are talking about.


I think the opposite but I've seen quite a bit of her operating in Senate Estimates committees where she is formidable.


Every ABC show I have seen her on, she gets caught up in petty squabbling. If she can't come across well in public, then shes not going to be a great face for the party.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:38 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
:lol: :lol: :thumbup:

I'm like you I think.. I like some punchy in my pollie, so to speak. I'm guessing the ALP will go with yet another scripted performer and people will compare degrees of charisma gain measured in millisimpers.


Howard stayed in for 9 years or whatever primarily because he was a good salesman. Morrison is a good salesman. The ALP are going to need a straight talking man of the people to have a chance in 3 years. Saturday night was the first time I'd listened to Albanese talk at length. It aint him. He looks like a defrocked catholic priest too, imho.

Tanya is effective, my guess is her and her corner reckon the ALP will lose next time too, so she'll have a crack in 3 years. I agree with that assessment. The ALP just lost the unlosable to a 7 month relatively unknown PM taking over an absolute clusterfvck. Provided Morrison doesn't do a Campbell Newman (highly unlikely) or get busted shagging a goat (more likely - there's some pretty good looking goats you have to admit) then his gloss with the parliamentary team will keep the boys in check.

Bowen is thick. He couldn't even regurgitate the tax rates. I don't know anything of the youngish Queenslander getting mentioned. He'd be might be worth a go. Not a lot to lose.

Whatever, we need both sides and to be a lot better.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:45 am 
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kiap wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.

Being an effective operator in the parliament is not the same as being PM.

Let's say Penny Wong was a bloke. It's not the case, but let's say she's a fifth generation Australian white bloke in a safe lower house seat, just for the sake of argument to take out all those factors ... She still wouldn't be a good candidate for the ALP driver's seat. Too punchy, too aggressive, too partisan. Too snarky.

I love a good snark more than anyone, but it's a different personality.

But by all means if the ALP want to put her in as party leader, I'm willing to take bets on how she goes.

Clogs, you up m8?


I agree.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:53 am 
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Beetoota have spoken, "Labor Asks Freddy Fittler To Find A Team Of Young Blackfellas And Help Them Turn This Around"


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:56 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Sensible Stephen wrote:
I don't think gender is as big an issue as people make it out to be. Gillard got some rough shit thrown her way. But Crazy Tony in speedos just garners a few laughs. Imagine if it was jolly Julia in a bikini or something.

guy smiley wrote:

I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.


I don't think Wong is very good in debates at all. Far too often she goes after the person and ignores the actual issue they are talking about.


I think the opposite but I've seen quite a bit of her operating in Senate Estimates committees where she is formidable.


I think Penny is currently the most formidable politician lurking in the swamplands of Australian politics. She is very genuine and would 100% get my vote.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 8:49 am 
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Who's got the numbers? Albo missed out last time, to a right winger. What will be different this time?


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 9:55 am 
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So no tax cuts this year. Is this the fastest broken campaign promise ever? Seriously these wankers can’t get themselves organised to get to Canberra and pass legislation in time? Fuckin laughable and it was their signature policy


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:17 am 
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swc wrote:
So no tax cuts this year. Is this the fastest broken campaign promise ever? Seriously these wankers can’t get themselves organised to get to Canberra and pass legislation in time? Fuckin laughable and it was their signature policy


Yep, it will be like this for the next 3 years


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:06 pm 
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Obviously disappointed with the result as I thought Labor had so much more to offer than the LNP from a nation building, funding and fairness point of view.

General thoughts:
1. Just a general lack of interest from the 18 to 30 age group with answers such as "I don't know what their policies are but I just don't like Shorten" and "what are the differences between the parties?" to "my electorate is 'insert suburb name here'". The expected positive kick to Labor and the Greens from the thousands of younger voters signing up for the Marriage Equality Plebiscite failed to have an impact.

2. Labor set themselves up as a big target with their comprehensive suite of policies that were released many months in advance. You could have mistaken Labor as the Government and the LNP as the opposition. Tax cuts and the 10,000 spots for the First Home Buyer deposit guarantee seemed to be the only LNP policies. This allowed Morrison to focus on a negative campaign on these policies.

3. Following on from point 3, it seems that for the majority of people, self interest will always trump longer term nation building. Tax cuts seemed to be more important for many people over schools, education, the environment and health (particularly the cancer health policy). Having said that, I can see how much more important it was for rural QLD to have jobs prioritised over the environment.

4. Misinformation and lies are now entrenched. It is so much easier to lie and create fear about your opposition's policies than to be positive about your own. Mediscare worked, to some extent, for Labor in 2016 and in this election we had $387 billion of taxes, death taxes and the like. There needs to be some way that the AEC holds parties and people accountable for lies. One of my team said that on WeChat, it was his estimate that 90% of those he interacted with said they were voting for the LNP because they didn't want to pay death taxes.

5. Despite Clive Palmer not winning a single seat, his relentless advertisements probably had a larger impact than given credit for. I wish the Government would go after him for the $77 million he owes for wages and entitlements. Those who told me they were voting for him easily repeated his promises but weren't able to explain how they would be achieved.

Unless there is a significant shift in public thinking, the only way that I can see Labor winning a large majority in the future is if Australia goes through a significant and prolonged recession with the LNP in charge. The LNP has a significant advantage in people thinking that they are better economic managers compared to Labor.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:09 pm 
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Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
swc wrote:
So no tax cuts this year. Is this the fastest broken campaign promise ever? Seriously these wankers can’t get themselves organised to get to Canberra and pass legislation in time? Fuckin laughable and it was their signature policy


Yep, it will be like this for the next 3 years


I love how they are blaming the bureaucrats for this but they would have known that calling the election in late May would mean that the writs would not be returned in time for Parliament to re-sit this side of the financial year.

Anyway, do I get a tax cut this year or is my tax cut coming in their next term of Government?


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:14 pm 
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Given that Morrison won this election almost on his own (cameos from Josh), does this mean that he can tell the right of his party to piss off?

I presume that because so many of the Liberal moderates quit, the party is now stacked with the right.

Should be interesting to see how this plays out.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:18 pm 
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Hardtackle wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
:lol: :lol: :thumbup:

I'm like you I think.. I like some punchy in my pollie, so to speak. I'm guessing the ALP will go with yet another scripted performer and people will compare degrees of charisma gain measured in millisimpers.


Howard stayed in for 9 years or whatever primarily because he was a good salesman. Morrison is a good salesman. The ALP are going to need a straight talking man of the people to have a chance in 3 years. Saturday night was the first time I'd listened to Albanese talk at length. It aint him. He looks like a defrocked catholic priest too, imho.

Tanya is effective, my guess is her and her corner reckon the ALP will lose next time too, so she'll have a crack in 3 years. I agree with that assessment. The ALP just lost the unlosable to a 7 month relatively unknown PM taking over an absolute clusterfvck. Provided Morrison doesn't do a Campbell Newman (highly unlikely) or get busted shagging a goat (more likely - there's some pretty good looking goats you have to admit) then his gloss with the parliamentary team will keep the boys in check.

Bowen is thick. He couldn't even regurgitate the tax rates. I don't know anything of the youngish Queenslander getting mentioned. He'd be might be worth a go. Not a lot to lose.

Whatever, we need both sides and to be a lot better.


If Bowen gets the gig (and I hope he doesn't), the Government at the next election will be running non-stop footage of him saying "if you don't like our policy, don't vote for us".

I think Albo is a real down to earth character and more people would warm to him. Jim Chalmers seems polished enough, but is really young and I don't know if he will catch the Australia's public's imagination. Being a QLDer is a positive because we all know we need so much help up there!


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:30 pm 
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The death duty thing is off the charts for penetration.

:(


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 2:12 pm 
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Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
swc wrote:
So no tax cuts this year. Is this the fastest broken campaign promise ever? Seriously these wankers can’t get themselves organised to get to Canberra and pass legislation in time? Fuckin laughable and it was their signature policy


Yep, it will be like this for the next 3 years


err this is the electoral commission not letting parliament sit.
Just settle its going to be a hard 3 years for you.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 2:12 pm 
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Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
The death duty thing is off the charts for penetration.

:(


Death and taxes - what everyone fears, rolled into one.

:frown:


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:04 pm 
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Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
The death duty thing is off the charts for penetration.

:(


I was reading an article yesterday explaining how that started off through paid advertising and messaging on Facebook, tracked back to a Liberal account.

Edit,


here it is

Quote:
Integrity experts say the patently false and “scandalous” claims spread during the election give renewed impetus for truth in political advertising laws, saying reform is now a “no-brainer”.

The election was littered with false and exaggerated claims, many of which were propagated by fringe groups on social media and amplified by major parties.

An invention claiming Labor planned to introduce a death tax, for example, appears to have begun on unsourced Facebook pages, spread to other users via direct messages and paid ads, before finally being amplified by Coalition politicians.

Guardian Australia’s project to monitor hidden campaigning on social media began to pick up claims about a Labor “death tax” in mid-April, when users received direct Facebook messages stating “Labor, the Greens and Unions have signed an agreement to introduce a 40% inheritance tax”.

Other third-party Facebook groups, including an anti-Labor page named Rite-ON!, spread the death tax claim using paid Facebook ads, and it was amplified by Coalition figures, including the Liberal senator Jane Hume and the Queensland LNP MP George Christensen.


Christensen paid for three Facebook ads on Labor’s supposed death tax, one of which said “we know Labor have secret plans to bring in a death tax”.

Social media was also used to spread falsehoods about Labor’s plan to introduce a car tax. The origins of this claim are more obvious. Guardian Australia tracked dozens of paid Liberal party ads spreading the car tax claim into the Facebook newsfeeds of targeted users.

“Bill Shorten and Labor plan to introduce a Car Tax which would increase the cost of nearly all of Australia’s new cars,” one ad, paid for by the Liberal WA branch, said.

Labor – which was itself guilty of spreading the Mediscare falsehood about the Liberals – held no policies to introduce a car or death tax.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:14 pm 
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and...

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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:18 pm 
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Thought provoking article

https://quillette.com/2019/05/20/at-aus ... -to-roost/

Quote:
Progressive politicians like to assume that, on election day at least, blue-collar workers and urban progressives will bridge their differences, and make common cause to support leftist economic policies. This assumption might once have been warranted. But it certainly isn’t now—in large part because the intellectuals, activists and media pundits who present the most visible face of modern leftism are the same people openly attacking the values and cultural tastes of working and middle-class voters. And thanks to social media (and the caustic news-media culture that social media has encouraged and normalized), these attacks are no longer confined to dinner-party titterings and university lecture halls. Brigid Delaney, a senior writer for Guardian Australia, responded to Saturday’s election result with a column about how Australia has shown itself to be “rotten.” One well-known Australian feminist and op-ed writer, Clementine Ford, has been fond of Tweeting sentiments such as “All men are scum and must die.” Former Australian Race Discrimination Commissioner Tim Soutphommasane, who also has served as a high-profile newspaper columnist, argues that even many mainstream political positions—such as expressing concern about the Chinese government’s rising regional influence—are a smokescreen for racism.

In an interview conducted on Sunday morning, Deputy Labor leader Tanya Plibersek opined that if only her party had more time to explain to the various groups how much they’d all benefit from Labor’s plans, Australians would have realized how fortunate they’d be with a Labor government, and Shorten would’ve become Prime Minister. Such attitudes are patronizing, for they implicitly serve to place blame at the feet of voters, who apparently are too ignorant to know what’s good for them.

What the election actually shows us is that the so-called quiet Australians, whether they are tradies (to use the Australian term) in Penrith, retirees in Bundaberg, or small business owners in Newcastle, are tired of incessant scolding from their purported superiors. Condescension isn’t a good look for a political movement.

Taking stock of real voters’ needs would require elites to exhibit a spirit of empathic understanding—such as by way of acknowledging that blue-collar workers have good reason to vote down parties whose policies would destroy blue-collar jobs; or that legal immigrants might oppose opening up a nation’s border to migrants who arrive illegally. More broadly, the modern progressive left has lost touch with the fact that what ordinary people want from their government is a spirit of respect, dignity and hope for the future. While the fetish for hectoring and moral puritanism has become popular in rarefied corners of arts and academia, it is deeply off-putting to voters whose sense of self extends beyond cultish ideological tribalism.
...........................................................



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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:42 pm 
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Crazy Ed wrote:
Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
swc wrote:
So no tax cuts this year. Is this the fastest broken campaign promise ever? Seriously these wankers can’t get themselves organised to get to Canberra and pass legislation in time? Fuckin laughable and it was their signature policy


Yep, it will be like this for the next 3 years


err this is the electoral commission not letting parliament sit.
Just settle its going to be a hard 3 years for you.


It will be a hard 3 yrs....not financially, but i couldn't give a shit about tax cuts. But yes other parts and direction of where we are going as a country does concern me.

Electoral commission or not they can get this done if they want, tax office has said they will push it through. But point is they said they'd do it. So it's a broken promise


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:49 pm 
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swc wrote:
Crazy Ed wrote:
Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
swc wrote:
So no tax cuts this year. Is this the fastest broken campaign promise ever? Seriously these wankers can’t get themselves organised to get to Canberra and pass legislation in time? Fuckin laughable and it was their signature policy


Yep, it will be like this for the next 3 years


err this is the electoral commission not letting parliament sit.
Just settle its going to be a hard 3 years for you.


It will be a hard 3 yrs....not financially, but i couldn't give a shit about tax cuts. But yes other parts and direction of where we are going as a country does concern me.

Electoral commission or not they can get this done if they want, tax office has said they will push it through. But point is they said they'd do it. So it's a broken promise


It's evident he's just a troll


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:06 am 
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We should spare a thought for Zali Steggall. She won a great victory, but now comes the really hard part, being an inconsequential backbencher for three or so years.


(I played against her father when he played for Northern Suburbs. He played for Manly later).


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:50 am 
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:14 am 
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But they weren't really Fats, the Non-liberal vote was high

And the Greens made gains everywhere.

Isn't it time you sloped off back to G&GR?


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:45 am 
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Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
But they weren't really Fats, the Non-liberal vote was high

And the Greens made gains everywhere.

Isn't it time you sloped off back to G&GR?


The Greens, lol


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:45 am 
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Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
But they weren't really Fats, the Non-liberal vote was high

And the Greens made gains everywhere.

Isn't it time you sloped off back to G&GR?


Nah, hes on the money. The Greens primary vote increased 0.4% from 2016. Thats hardly gains everywhere.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:48 am 
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At that rate the Greens will form government in 2095


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:59 am 
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The fear of 'death duty' is quite a uniquely Australian worry. The vast majority of modern democracies have some form of estate tax. It's amusing how much it draws ire here.


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