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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:13 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
Nobleman wrote:

He's gone into full-on Brexit headbanger loon mode and ignores any evidence that proves he is wrong.

As Philip Hammond wrote in his column today (and he should know given he wrote large parts of the 2017 manifesto)

Quote:
To pretend now that 2016 Leave voters voted for a hard no-deal Brexit is a total travesty of the truth.



I don't know how many times this point needs to be made, but, once again...

Nobody is claiming the majority of Leave voters in 2016 wanted no deal or that the GE or the Ref gives the Tories a mandate to seek No Deal over a deal. It's a total strawman.

The point is:

- Ref votes were cast in the knowledge No Deal could result and preference for (and expectaion of) a deal doesn't mean the Ref mandate is conditional on there being a deal, and
- the Tories won the GE on a mandate to try and get a deal but which also provides a mandate for no deal if they can't get a good deal so they literally have a mandate for No Deal.

They got a deal that the cabinet supported and that BoJo the current PM voted for.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:14 pm 
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sewa wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
“There's a terrible kind of collaboration, as it were, going on between people who think they can block Brexit in parliament and our European friends.” ~ Boris Johnson

Also: “Our European friends are not moving in their willingness to compromise, they're not compromising at all on the withdrawal agreement, even though it's been thrown out three times.

“They're sticking to every letter, every comma of the withdrawal agreement - including the [Irish] backstop."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Its been said here many times here by some of the Irish that the EU will throw us under the bus sooner or later. I think they have their answer here :thumbup: :D


The Bus isn't dropping the backstop. The Bus is requiring a hard border if they drop the backstop or there's no deal.

So - are you confident the EU will not require a hard border in the either event?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:15 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
Nobleman wrote:

He's gone into full-on Brexit headbanger loon mode and ignores any evidence that proves he is wrong.

As Philip Hammond wrote in his column today (and he should know given he wrote large parts of the 2017 manifesto)

Quote:
To pretend now that 2016 Leave voters voted for a hard no-deal Brexit is a total travesty of the truth.




Blah blah blah minority opinion presented as will of the people in obvious lie blah blah.



Fixed


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:16 pm 
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sewa wrote:


You're not going to help your case by referring to a British company expanding into Europe with additional manufacturing capacity as 'jobs going to Prague'. Jobs are not being moved out of the UK.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:16 pm 
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Quote:
He's gone into full-on Brexit headbanger loon mode and ignores any evidence that proves he is wrong.

As Philip Hammond wrote in his column today (and he should know given he wrote large parts of the 2017 manifesto)


A manifesto which was very clear and Hammond is the one ignoring, Phil should call a bye election.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:16 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
Tory Manifesto
Quote:
We will seek a deep and special partnership including a comprehensive free trade and customs agreement.


So lets just leave the PATHEITC attempt to claim the 2017 general election as a mandate for no deal.



You seek to understand simple issues. Doesn't mean you will.


We know we engage with you at the risk you may not be exactly graced with the sunshine of comprehension.



Another man crying like a bitch when confronted with cold hard facts.

You're a bullshitter and unlike a good bullshitter you haven't figured out not to lie about things easily googled.


See. This my fault. I knew the risks.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:17 pm 
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4071 wrote:
sewa wrote:


You're not going to help your case by referring to a British company expanding into Europe with additional manufacturing capacity as 'jobs going to Prague'. Jobs are not being moved out of the UK.



Why didn't they expand in Britain?

They have total access to the European market via the E.....oh yeah.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:17 pm 
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sewa wrote:



Oh god having lost all the other arguments today he’s back to printing this shite, we are 1 million jobs up from where we were predicted to be , wages are rising at a decades high.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:18 pm 
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https://www.expressandstar.com/news/business/2019/08/10/staff-gutted-as-jobs-lost-at-transport-firm-aspery/?fbclid=IwAR3KfaDMQShJbFZZxLi1OSwxXHkkZYMWssxa_wzR-2K7-eccbwalL1isYQo

200 jobs gone, Brexit specifically mentioned in the first paragraph of the redundancy letters as a factor

https://news.sky.com/story/office-sidesteps-cva-as-dozens-of-store-closures-loom-11780870?fbclid=IwAR2G4gpFTkHvVZPgN_Fe6yHxIX1d79IK9L4EaVKYcRv4zyFw62gEC9rgJYk

Office to close dozens of stores, Office was reported to have said earlier this year that "continued concerns over Brexit and depressed consumer demand" had affected its business

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-08-06/bohoo-buys-online-businesses-karen-millen-coast-more-than-1000-jobs-at-risk/?fbclid=IwAR3VMMG9utDSPh-r2E0hthAJCpMLKPA8yPt4N8hplv6lPlcRQuUlPFdsgSo

1100 more jobs to go


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:19 pm 
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Nobleman wrote:
bimboman wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Quote:
80% of the votes cast at the last general election were for a party committed to Brexit .


This isn't a serious point and it's beneath you.

Why that backs your no deal argument, is even more mysterious.



“I’ll ignore whatever votes and facts I want”

Says a remainer always.


So you and zzzzzzz are claiming that the Labour 2017 manifesto could be interpreted as in favour of a no deal Brexit. This is what it says:

Quote:
Labour recognises that leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain and that it would do damage to our economy and trade. We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option and, if needs be, negotiate transitional arrangements to avoid a ‘cliff-edge’ for the UK economy.


There is no mandate for no-deal.



It is that simple :thumbup:

zzzzzz's extended argument that a majority in the GE supported "no deal"

1. 80% [82.4% in fact] voted for parties committed to implementing Brexit
2. A majority of that 80% voted for a party advocating "no deal was better than a bad deal" (ie 42.4%/82.4%)
3. Therefore there was a majority voting for or accepting "No Deal"

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:20 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
zzzz wrote:
ox wagon wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Elections have consequences. You may not like them, but they do.

Most of the 2017 votes were for parties that ruled out no deal, about 55%. Using general election votes to make a point doesn't really work though, there's too many other variables.

Arguing over how legitimate no deal is seems besides the point. The October 31st date, isn't really being used against the EU. Because the UK can leave any time it wants with no deal. The EU isn't going to give concessions at the last minute, because what the UK is demanding is so far removed from the current WA (the EU view the WA itself as a concession), it would require an Article 50 extension to renegotiate which can only be asked for by Johnson.

This is like May's tenure on repeat, in a shorter time frame. First there was the baseless optimism, then the Irish making their feelings known, then the talk of no deal. It's going through all the stages again, the next stage being WA, and the stage after that being replace the PM.

Johnson's team surely knows this. So the goal must be to use no deal to threaten MPs/opposition parties. Perhaps he then brings back the WA to vote on it again. If the vote passes he wins, if the vote doesn't pass his opponents have rejected no deal and the deal (the problem is the ERG is only in one of those camps). He then goes into an election as Mr.Brexit. Maybe the stage of voting on the WA will be skipped, but the point is to threaten MPs/opposition parties and end up as Mr.Brexit. The point isn't about no deal, because Johnson doesn't actually care about the Brexit outcome (articles supporting leave and remain, and voting for and against the WA on different occasions).

Maybe no deal happens in the middle of all that. Which would be bad for the Conservative, they would end up owning the worst Brexit outcome. There's also no incentive for Labour voters to vote for Mr.Brexit after the fact. The assumption is the Brexit Party support is winnable post Brexit, but it isn't if Johnson has already won most of the Conservative support back just by being leader, and most of the support still there for the Brexit Party leans towards Labour. How he gets the votes Cameron and May got without the centre, is anyone's guess.


I am inclined to think Boris is genuinely committed to No Deal IF he can't get a renegotiation. So Tory policy hasn't really changed, I just think he may actually mean it.

I remain sceptical he can pull it off. I disgaree with the current view that Parl have missed the boat. I think Bercow and the rebels will come up with something. A bit of me wonders if Bj is actually a bit ambivalent about this risk. I think he would quite fancy a GE where he could position himself standing against a duplicitous elite rather than as the destroyer of worlds etc.


There's no time for a GE before Halloween. So Boris would have to ask for another Extenstion which would tip his hand to everyone else that he wants another GE. Then Farage would destroy him in the press........

Basically I think Boris is fudged as is the Tory Party for the next 20 years. Bravo David Cameron.



Why would he have to ask for another extension?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:21 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
- Ref votes were cast in the knowledge No Deal could result and the preference for (and expectation of) a deal doesn't mean the Ref mandate is conditional on there being a deal, and


Piss off! No-one had even coined the term No Deal/Hard Brexit in 2016 :lol:

zzzz wrote:
- the Tories won the GE on a mandate to try and get a deal but which also provides a mandate for no deal if they can't get a good deal so they literally have a mandate for No Deal.


Loon


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:23 pm 
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4071 wrote:
sewa wrote:


You're not going to help your case by referring to a British company expanding into Europe with additional manufacturing capacity as 'jobs going to Prague'. Jobs are not being moved out of the UK.


Where I got this from includes the following info, "I am reliably informed that Advanex will close its Bilborough, Notts, factory in 2021." The company said in a statement in November 2018: "The Advanex group have commissioned and built a manufacturing plant in the Czech Republic, as a contingency. Certain new products will be manufactured from this site from the first quarter 2019. The senior management team are considering the possibility of stock holding in this site and shipping from there."

I.e its Brexit supply chain impact driven


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:23 pm 
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You see I think he's more of a liar than a loon.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:23 pm 
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sorCrer wrote:
“There's a terrible kind of collaboration, as it were, going on between people who think they can block Brexit in parliament and our European friends.” ~ Boris Johnson

Also: Our European friends are not moving in their willingness to compromise, they're not compromising at all on the withdrawal agreement, even though it's been thrown out three times. They're sticking to every letter, every comma of the withdrawal agreement - including the [Irish] backstop.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


f**king hell, I mean f**king hell :?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:23 pm 
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The best deal is the one we already have. Everyone knows that.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:24 pm 
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shereblue wrote:
Nobleman wrote:
bimboman wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Quote:
80% of the votes cast at the last general election were for a party committed to Brexit .


This isn't a serious point and it's beneath you.

Why that backs your no deal argument, is even more mysterious.



“I’ll ignore whatever votes and facts I want”

Says a remainer always.


So you and zzzzzzz are claiming that the Labour 2017 manifesto could be interpreted as in favour of a no deal Brexit. This is what it says:

Quote:
Labour recognises that leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain and that it would do damage to our economy and trade. We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option and, if needs be, negotiate transitional arrangements to avoid a ‘cliff-edge’ for the UK economy.


There is no mandate for no-deal.



It is that simple :thumbup:

zzzzzz's extended argument that a majority in the GE supported "no deal"

1. 80% [82.4% in fact] voted for parties committed to implementing Brexit
2. A majority of that 80% voted for a party advocating "no deal was better than a bad deal" (ie 42.4%/82.4%)
3. Therefore there was a majority voting for or accepting "No Deal"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

he's not saying that in fairness.

he's just taking the normal brexiter position of making a deeply disingenuous and controversial statement, then feeling superior when he gets to point out how it's technically right and pretends that the fact it was misleading is because the person reading it was an idiot.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:24 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
backrow wrote:
Has anyone spoken today about the economics news that there are 1m more people with jobs in the U.K. today than since the brexit vote ? Or that Germany announced a quarter of negative growth and one of the lowest business confidence index scores ever ?

Right now it’s hard to see all the doom and gloom on the economics side of things for the UK

Let's see the figures in September and whether we're slipping into a recession before you start crowing.

Also, about a million of them are zero hours contract "jobs", which skews the figures somewhat.



It’s a “million” today folks.

No, "about a million" is what I wrote. And, yes, I'll take that back.

It's actually 896,000 according to yesterdays press release from the ONS. 115, 000 higher than a year ago. Or 2.7% of all people in employment.

And it's still shameful.

Quote:
There were an estimated 896,000 people (not seasonally adjusted) in employment on zero-hour contracts in their main job, 115,000 more than for a year earlier, but 8,000 fewer than the same period in 2016. This represents 2.7% of all people in employment for April to June 2019.


https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlab ... august2019


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:25 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
zzzz wrote:
ox wagon wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Elections have consequences. You may not like them, but they do.

Most of the 2017 votes were for parties that ruled out no deal, about 55%. Using general election votes to make a point doesn't really work though, there's too many other variables.

Arguing over how legitimate no deal is seems besides the point. The October 31st date, isn't really being used against the EU. Because the UK can leave any time it wants with no deal. The EU isn't going to give concessions at the last minute, because what the UK is demanding is so far removed from the current WA (the EU view the WA itself as a concession), it would require an Article 50 extension to renegotiate which can only be asked for by Johnson.

This is like May's tenure on repeat, in a shorter time frame. First there was the baseless optimism, then the Irish making their feelings known, then the talk of no deal. It's going through all the stages again, the next stage being WA, and the stage after that being replace the PM.

Johnson's team surely knows this. So the goal must be to use no deal to threaten MPs/opposition parties. Perhaps he then brings back the WA to vote on it again. If the vote passes he wins, if the vote doesn't pass his opponents have rejected no deal and the deal (the problem is the ERG is only in one of those camps). He then goes into an election as Mr.Brexit. Maybe the stage of voting on the WA will be skipped, but the point is to threaten MPs/opposition parties and end up as Mr.Brexit. The point isn't about no deal, because Johnson doesn't actually care about the Brexit outcome (articles supporting leave and remain, and voting for and against the WA on different occasions).

Maybe no deal happens in the middle of all that. Which would be bad for the Conservative, they would end up owning the worst Brexit outcome. There's also no incentive for Labour voters to vote for Mr.Brexit after the fact. The assumption is the Brexit Party support is winnable post Brexit, but it isn't if Johnson has already won most of the Conservative support back just by being leader, and most of the support still there for the Brexit Party leans towards Labour. How he gets the votes Cameron and May got without the centre, is anyone's guess.


I am inclined to think Boris is genuinely committed to No Deal IF he can't get a renegotiation. So Tory policy hasn't really changed, I just think he may actually mean it.

I remain sceptical he can pull it off. I disgaree with the current view that Parl have missed the boat. I think Bercow and the rebels will come up with something. A bit of me wonders if Bj is actually a bit ambivalent about this risk. I think he would quite fancy a GE where he could position himself standing against a duplicitous elite rather than as the destroyer of worlds etc.


There's no time for a GE before Halloween. So Boris would have to ask for another Extenstion which would tip his hand to everyone else that he wants another GE. Then Farage would destroy him in the press........

Basically I think Boris is fudged as is the Tory Party for the next 20 years. Bravo David Cameron.



Why would he have to ask for another extension?

Because it's quite clear that there'll not be a HB. It just won't happen. There are no where near enough senior policians goose stepping behind Boris, Farage Cummings.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:25 pm 
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shereblue wrote:
Nobleman wrote:
bimboman wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Quote:
80% of the votes cast at the last general election were for a party committed to Brexit .


This isn't a serious point and it's beneath you.

Why that backs your no deal argument, is even more mysterious.



“I’ll ignore whatever votes and facts I want”

Says a remainer always.


So you and zzzzzzz are claiming that the Labour 2017 manifesto could be interpreted as in favour of a no deal Brexit. This is what it says:

Quote:
Labour recognises that leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain and that it would do damage to our economy and trade. We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option and, if needs be, negotiate transitional arrangements to avoid a ‘cliff-edge’ for the UK economy.


There is no mandate for no-deal.



It is that simple :thumbup:

zzzzzz's extended argument that a majority in the GE supported "no deal"

1. 80% [82.4% in fact] voted for parties committed to implementing Brexit
2. A majority of that 80% voted for a party advocating "no deal was better than a bad deal" (ie 42.4%/82.4%)
3. Therefore there was a majority voting for or accepting "No Deal"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

https://youtu.be/WFoC3TR5rzI


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:25 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
zzzz wrote:
- Ref votes were cast in the knowledge No Deal could result and the preference for (and expectation of) a deal doesn't mean the Ref mandate is conditional on there being a deal, and


Piss off! No-one had even coined the term No Deal/Hard Brexit in 2016 :lol:

zzzz wrote:
- the Tories won the GE on a mandate to try and get a deal but which also provides a mandate for no deal if they can't get a good deal so they literally have a mandate for No Deal.


Loon



He’s right though majority Party has a manifesto and follows it through.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:26 pm 
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Leffe wrote:
zzzz wrote:

- Ref votes were cast in the knowledge No Deal could result and preference for (and expectaion of) a deal doesn't mean the Ref mandate is conditional on there being a deal, and

Again, ths is utter BS and is plastered all over 10 wide advertisments, which have been tweeted to death.



So you keep asserting. I can only be grateful there are Remainers available to tell us Leavers what we were really thinking.

But a question: does this conditionality between votes and expectations only apply to Leave? Given there was no economic meltdown on 24thy June, how many Remain votes can we scratch off the madate for Remain?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:27 pm 
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shereblue wrote:
The best deal is the one we already have. Everyone knows that.



It’s a terrible deal at being out of the European Union though.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:27 pm 
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shereblue wrote:
The best deal is the one we already have. Everyone knows that.


It's the best deal that anyone has or are likely to ever have in the EU.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:28 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
You see I think he's more of a liar than a loon.



Except he’s told no lies. You in the other hand have told dozens already today.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:28 pm 
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The Sun God wrote:
shereblue wrote:
The best deal is the one we already have. Everyone knows that.


It's the best deal that anyone has or are likely to ever have in the EU.



We voted to leave however.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:29 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
Nobleman wrote:

He's gone into full-on Brexit headbanger loon mode and ignores any evidence that proves he is wrong.

As Philip Hammond wrote in his column today (and he should know given he wrote large parts of the 2017 manifesto)

Quote:
To pretend now that 2016 Leave voters voted for a hard no-deal Brexit is a total travesty of the truth.



I don't know how many times this point needs to be made, but, once again...

Nobody is claiming the majority of Leave voters in 2016 wanted no deal or that the GE or the Ref gives the Tories a mandate to seek No Deal over a deal. It's a total strawman.

The point is:

- Ref votes were cast in the knowledge No Deal could result and the preference for (and expectation of) a deal doesn't mean the Ref mandate is conditional on there being a deal, and
- the Tories won the GE on a mandate to try and get a deal but which also provides a mandate for no deal if they can't get a good deal so they literally have a mandate for No Deal.


Have you read the manifesto?

This is what it says:

Quote:
“We need to deliver a smooth and orderly departure from the European Union and forge a deep and special partnership with our friends and allies across Europe.”


It then repeats the same commitment no fewer than eight times and in the final page states:

Quote:
“With Theresa May and her team we will secure the best possible deal with the European Union and chart a course to a new global future”


Who in their right mind would interpret that as a mandate for no deal Brexit?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:29 pm 
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I am sure Alanis Morisette wrote a song about this

https://www.staffordshire-live.co.uk/news/local-news/jcb-jobs-agency-workers-3205112

"The digger giant has not commented on the new round of job losses but last month blamed "uncertainties in the global market"


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:30 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
backrow wrote:
Has anyone spoken today about the economics news that there are 1m more people with jobs in the U.K. today than since the brexit vote ? Or that Germany announced a quarter of negative growth and one of the lowest business confidence index scores ever ?

Right now it’s hard to see all the doom and gloom on the economics side of things for the UK

Let's see the figures in September and whether we're slipping into a recession before you start crowing.

Also, about a million of them are zero hours contract "jobs", which skews the figures somewhat.



It’s a “million” today folks.

No, "about a million" is what I wrote. And, yes, I'll take that back.

It's actually 896,000 according to yesterdays press release from the ONS. 115, 000 higher than a year ago. Or 2.7% of all people in employment.

And it's still shameful.

Quote:
There were an estimated 896,000 people (not seasonally adjusted) in employment on zero-hour contracts in their main job, 115,000 more than for a year earlier, but 8,000 fewer than the same period in 2016. This represents 2.7% of all people in employment for April to June 2019.


https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlab ... august2019



Casual or flexible employment isn’t “shameful”, it’s what occurs across the globe. Your representation of it is shameful of course.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:31 pm 
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Nobleman wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Nobleman wrote:

He's gone into full-on Brexit headbanger loon mode and ignores any evidence that proves he is wrong.

As Philip Hammond wrote in his column today (and he should know given he wrote large parts of the 2017 manifesto)

Quote:
To pretend now that 2016 Leave voters voted for a hard no-deal Brexit is a total travesty of the truth.



I don't know how many times this point needs to be made, but, once again...

Nobody is claiming the majority of Leave voters in 2016 wanted no deal or that the GE or the Ref gives the Tories a mandate to seek No Deal over a deal. It's a total strawman.

The point is:

- Ref votes were cast in the knowledge No Deal could result and the preference for (and expectation of) a deal doesn't mean the Ref mandate is conditional on there being a deal, and
- the Tories won the GE on a mandate to try and get a deal but which also provides a mandate for no deal if they can't get a good deal so they literally have a mandate for No Deal.


Have you read the manifesto?

This is what it says:

Quote:
“We need to deliver a smooth and orderly departure from the European Union and forge a deep and special partnership with our friends and allies across Europe.”


It then repeats the same commitment no fewer than eight times and in the final page states:

Quote:
“With Theresa May and her team we will secure the best possible deal with the European Union and chart a course to a new global future”


Who in their right mind would interpret that as a mandate for no deal Brexit?



Those that read “no deal is better than a bad deal” in the same document.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:31 pm 
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Nobleman wrote:

Who in their right mind would interpret that as a mandate for no deal Brexit?


There is your mistake


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:31 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
shereblue wrote:
The best deal is the one we already have. Everyone knows that.


It's the best deal that anyone has or are likely to ever have in the EU.



We voted to leave however.


And don't let the door slap you in the arse on the way out.....


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:31 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Casual or flexible employment isn’t “shameful”, it’s what occurs across the globe. Your representation of it is shameful of course.


Idiot.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:32 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
You see I think he's more of a liar than a loon.



Except he’s told no lies. You in the other hand have told dozens already today.

Do you want to address your 'Murdoch's a remainer' one? I've asked you a couple of times.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:32 pm 
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The Sun God wrote:
bimboman wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
shereblue wrote:
The best deal is the one we already have. Everyone knows that.


It's the best deal that anyone has or are likely to ever have in the EU.



We voted to leave however.


And don't let the door slap you in the arse on the way out.....



:thumbup: ,

Our 12% corporation tax and large free trade zones will just be a start I hope.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:32 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
Nobleman wrote:

Who in their right mind would interpret that as a mandate for no deal Brexit?


There is your mistake


I set the trap and he walked straight in.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:33 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
- the Tories won the GE on a mandate to try and get a deal but which also provides a mandate for no deal if they can't get a good deal so they literally have a mandate for No Deal.


The Tories could not get pure "No Deal" through parliament. Even with the DUP they only have a majority of 1, and there are a sizable number of Tories who would vote against it.. Which is why there is talk about suspending parliament, exiting during a general election etc.

If that happens a lot of people will see it as subversion of powers, and especially if things get tough will feel very angry, Angry people can fire off in any direction.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:33 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
shereblue wrote:
The best deal is the one we already have. Everyone knows that.


It's the best deal that anyone has or are likely to ever have in the EU.



We voted to leave however.


You didn't


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:33 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Casual or flexible employment isn’t “shameful”, it’s what occurs across the globe. Your representation of it is shameful of course.


Idiot.



Sorry? You’re saying that everywhere else in the world there’s no flexible or casual employment? Indeed I’m an idiot.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:34 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
zzzz wrote:
I am inclined to think Boris is genuinely committed to No Deal IF he can't get a renegotiation. So Tory policy hasn't really changed, I just think he may actually mean it.

I remain sceptical he can pull it off. I disgaree with the current view that Parl have missed the boat. I think Bercow and the rebels will come up with something. A bit of me wonders if Bj is actually a bit ambivalent about this risk. I think he would quite fancy a GE where he could position himself standing against a duplicitous elite rather than as the destroyer of worlds etc.


There's no time for a GE before Halloween. So Boris would have to ask for another Extenstion which would tip his hand to everyone else that he wants another GE. Then Farage would destroy him in the press........

Basically I think Boris is fudged as is the Tory Party for the next 20 years. Bravo David Cameron.

It definitely makes the most sense trying to work out what happens next, by working backwards from an election. It's the element that looks most certain.

So the biggest thing is then the date of the election. Before October the 31st, or as zzzz says if the rebels replace Johnson and before a new date, and Johnson can say he's Mr.Brexit up against the elite. Afterwards and being Mr.Brexit counts for less and there's the potential "destroyer of worlds" thing.

There's time for an election before the 31st, SS. Most of the analysis doesn't include him choosing to go to an election. Either way it comes back to when it happens and the time he decides is best. His polling is in the high 20s and low 30s. The Libdems are polling where they last were in 2010. These are the obstacles he has to get around.


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