The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

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wamberal99
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by wamberal99 »

happyhooker wrote: You're lucky he didn't post a disturbing and unfunny meme

Why do you think I might give a flying fark? I am lucky to have had the experiences I have had, not to mention the opportunity to work as an expatriate in Hong Kong, also in Thailand. Not to mention PNG.


I am happy to share my opinions, which are based on experience on the ground, not on theory.
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Uthikoloshe
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by Uthikoloshe »

wamberal99 wrote:
Uthikoloshe wrote:
wamberal99 wrote: It would be nice to think that there can be some kind of fairy tale ending. But there cannot, and will not, be one.
What ever, Comrade.
You should read Chinese history. They gain and lose things constantly.

I spent 15 or so years of my life living amongst Chinese history.
Yet you say there can never be fairy tale endings. :lol:
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Flockwitt
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by Flockwitt »

Still not sure where this is going. One thing is for sure. China's going to be increasingly nervous if these sort of crowds turn out. There's a lot of Chinese nationals that are be peering over the boarder watching this.
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BlackMac
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by BlackMac »

The Optimist wrote:Hong Police the brown shirts of our time.

They know what is right but are too cowardly to stand up to the nazis. Good guys do what is right, not bend over and grab your ankles.
:roll: Funny how those least likely to have to face such a decision are always the first to line up against those that do.
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village
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by village »

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/08/20/s ... ness-trip/

Well this is worrying.
A staff member from the British Consulate General in Hong Kong has been missing in mainland China for over 10 days after crossing the border for a business trip. Hong Kong authorities in the mainland have been following up on the incident.

Simon Cheng Man-kit, a trade and investment officer at the Scottish Development International section of the consulate, attended a business event in Shenzhen on August 8 via the Lo Wu control point, but never returned to the city despite a prior plan to arrive back the same day on the Express Rail Link, Cheng’s girlfriend told news outlet HK01
Meanwhile this side of the border:

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/pol ... n-o-tunnel
An unidentified man launched an unprovoked knife attack on three people, critically injuring one, near a Hong Kong “Lennon Wall” in the early hours of Tuesday morning.
The suspect stabbed his victims – two women aged 26 and 35 and a man aged 24 – after hearing their views on the anti-government protests that have rocked the city, witnesses said.
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/pol ... n-o-tunnel

Things had been calming down and Sunday's march was peaceful but these incidents and the CCTV footage all over today's news showing HKPF officers beating a 62 year old man on a hospital bed threaten to stoke it all back up again.
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Sensible Stephen
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by Sensible Stephen »

Propaganda in full swing...

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naki111
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by naki111 »

Flockwitt wrote:Still not sure where this is going. One thing is for sure. China's going to be increasingly nervous if these sort of crowds turn out. There's a lot of Chinese nationals that are be peering over the boarder watching this.
The Hong Kong protest movement has very little to no support in mainland China. My wechat moments are blowing up on a daily basis now with Chinese nationalism and condemnation of the ‘rioters’ and ‘foreign interference’ in Hong Kong’s affairs. I don’t talk about politics too much with Chinese people over here because it’s an obvious minefield but there isn’t a lot of empathy generally between mainland Chinese and Hong Kongers. This is even true for mainland Chinese who have lived, worked and studied overseas and enjoyed the benefits of of western liberal institutions, rule of law, separation of powers etc etc.
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Sensible Stephen
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by Sensible Stephen »

naki111 wrote:
Flockwitt wrote:Still not sure where this is going. One thing is for sure. China's going to be increasingly nervous if these sort of crowds turn out. There's a lot of Chinese nationals that are be peering over the boarder watching this.
The Hong Kong protest movement has very little to no support in mainland China. My wechat moments are blowing up on a daily basis now with Chinese nationalism and condemnation of the ‘rioters’ and ‘foreign interference’ in Hong Kong’s affairs. I don’t talk about politics too much with Chinese people over here because it’s an obvious minefield but there isn’t a lot of empathy generally between mainland Chinese and Hong Kongers. This is even true for mainland Chinese who have lived, worked and studied overseas and enjoyed the benefits of of western liberal institutions, rule of law, separation of powers etc etc.
Yeah, Chinese hate the Chinese. Malaysian, Taiwanese, HK, Philippine, Indo, Australian Chinese all hate mainland Chinese. The reverse holds true also.
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by naki111 »

Sensible Stephen wrote:
naki111 wrote:
Flockwitt wrote:Still not sure where this is going. One thing is for sure. China's going to be increasingly nervous if these sort of crowds turn out. There's a lot of Chinese nationals that are be peering over the boarder watching this.
The Hong Kong protest movement has very little to no support in mainland China. My wechat moments are blowing up on a daily basis now with Chinese nationalism and condemnation of the ‘rioters’ and ‘foreign interference’ in Hong Kong’s affairs. I don’t talk about politics too much with Chinese people over here because it’s an obvious minefield but there isn’t a lot of empathy generally between mainland Chinese and Hong Kongers. This is even true for mainland Chinese who have lived, worked and studied overseas and enjoyed the benefits of of western liberal institutions, rule of law, separation of powers etc etc.
Yeah, Chinese hate the Chinese. Malaysian, Taiwanese, HK, Philippine, Indo, Australian Chinese all hate mainland Chinese. The reverse holds true also.
I saw earlier in the thread your prediction that the PRC would try to invade Taiwan within five years. Could you expand on your reasons for that timeframe?
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Sensible Stephen
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by Sensible Stephen »

naki111 wrote:
I saw earlier in the thread your prediction that the PRC would try to invade Taiwan within five years. Could you expand on your reasons for that timeframe?
Xi has said he is losing patience with Taiwan. He will want to unite the two countries before July 2021 to mark the 100th anniversary of the founding of the CCP. If he is successful in HK, then I don't see why he won't use misinformation and other methods to undermine Taiwan.

The Joint Island Attack Campaign may or may not be required.
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by village »

One of the three stabbed on Monday morning is in critical condition. The knifeman was caught at the border trying to sneak back into China.

It's been 7 days without tear gas in HK, but that looks about to change. Hardcore protesters have taken over Yuen Long MTR station & barricaded it. They are using fire extinguishers to keep the police at bay. Riot police & Raptor squad outside now & have not allowed media to go inside. Livestream from inside and outside: https://ncehk2019.github.io/nce-live/?visibleCount=9 could get ugly.
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by Taranaki Snapper »

Raptor Squad sounds AWESOME!

Image

has there been any discussion on previous pages regarding the pro and anti protests on campuses around the world, the fake Chinese Police cars that attended same in Perth and Adelaide and my favourite, the co-opting of D8/Di Bar/Fanquan in the propaganda war? Fascinating stuff, IMO...
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by Hong Kong »

So today, the cockroaches have returned and apart from trashing a number of shops, throwing bricks and more Molotov cocktails, have included stabbing a cop in the back and we have fired ONE warning shot. 😢
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by Taranaki Snapper »

Image
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Kiwias
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by Kiwias »

Taranaki Snapper wrote:Image
2, 1
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Sensible Stephen
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by Sensible Stephen »

Taranaki Snapper wrote:Image
Loora88888? Whats she got to do with any of this??
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by Glaston »

Taranaki Snapper wrote:Image
Damn :shock:
That little half smile!
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by Glaston »

I was going to mention reports of troop movements into Hong Kong.

"supposedly routine troop movements"
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wamberal99
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by wamberal99 »

Glaston wrote:I was going to mention reports of troop movements into Hong Kong.

"supposedly routine troop movements"

Nothing is routine in the PRC, or in HKG either.
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by Hong Kong »

wamberal99 wrote:
Glaston wrote:I was going to mention reports of troop movements into Hong Kong.

"supposedly routine troop movements"

Nothing is routine in the PRC, or in HKG either.
it's a bit of both - regular troop movement plus media playing up the fact that it's happening
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by village »

Several pro-democracy leaders were arrested this morning ahead of what might be another weekend of violence. The protest march organised for Saturday had been banned by police and the organisers were beaten up yesterday by auxiliary police officers (or Triads as they are commonly known). There's a general strike on monday. The recording made by the girl whose eye was blown out by a police bean-bag round is everywhere on social media and yesterday the protestors screened a documentary on the Ukraine maidan in a dozen locations around the city. It's a rather worrying parallel they wish to draw. Clearly there is an element of the hardcore pro-dems who want to make this as a revolution. I'm afraid I really don't see this all ending without something rather bloody taking place. :((
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by Sensible Stephen »

village wrote:Several pro-democracy leaders were arrested this morning ahead of what might be another weekend of violence. The protest march organised for Saturday had been banned by police and the organisers were beaten up yesterday by auxiliary police officers (or Triads as they are commonly known). There's a general strike on monday. The recording made by the girl whose eye was blown out by a police bean-bag round is everywhere on social media and yesterday the protestors screened a documentary on the Ukraine maidan in a dozen locations around the city. It's a rather worrying parallel they wish to draw. Clearly there is an element of the hardcore pro-dems who want to make this as a revolution. I'm afraid I really don't see this all ending without something rather bloody taking place. :((
I have a few friends with dual residency - they are looking at selling up and packing it in.
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Post by village »

This town is f**ked thanks to the brown-shirt thugs working for Carrie Lam. There's no curfew but it's basically illegal to be on the street at night these days if you happen to be in an area where it kicks off. Just now the police rushed onto an MTR train in Prince Edward, tear gassed the passengers (protesters mostly but its 11pm on the main underground line, a long way from the protests trouble spot in Causeway Bay), beat them with batons and dragged them off to custody. They don't give a fudge for due process here anymore.

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Post by village »

It's absolute chaos all across town on the MTR tonight. Cops beating people who are quite clearly not protesters. Some poor guy on his way home from a hospital visit in Yau Ma Tei. It's f**king vile.

https://twitter.com/stegersaurus/status ... 3431828480
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And plenty of suspicion that the molotovs being thrown are by undercover cops.

https://twitter.com/BeWaterHKG/status/1 ... 1095705600
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

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There's a story in today's Sydney Morning Herald that features interviews with schoolkids as young as 15 who joined the protests.

Hearts and minds. It looks as though that idiot Lam is well on the way to radicalising a generation. One thing about Hong Kong people, they are really tough when they want to be.
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by Macrosan »

wamberal99 wrote:There's a story in today's Sydney Morning Herald that features interviews with schoolkids as young as 15 who joined the protests.

Hearts and minds. It looks as though that idiot Lam is well on the way to radicalising a generation. One thing about Hong Kong people, they are really tough when they want to be.
Indeed, my wife is Cantonese, and like the Vietnamese, are lovely until backed into a corner, then all hell is unleashed.
PS I would bet money there are agent provocateurs among the protestors - whether they are Soros minions, CCP people, or CIA agents (or indeed a combination of these) is anyone's guess.
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Post by village »

15? Meh, he's an older one. They arrested a 13 year old with a molotov on Saturday.
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by village »

HK Govt have pledged to formally withdraw the extradition bill which caused all the fuss and mass marches.

That's just 1 of 5 demands the hardcore protesters have though and early indication is they won't back down yet.

I'm sure a large number of sunday peaceful marchers will be satisfied with it though (although a swath of the public feel there should also be an independent investigation into the behaviour of the police over the past 3 months but that's not going to happen).

Not quite sure why Carrie Lam did this now and not before. Obviously its because she felt the jerk on her puppet string but its less clear why Beijing did it.
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village wrote:HK Govt have pledged to formally withdraw the extradition bill which caused all the fuss and mass marches.

That's just 1 of 5 demands the hardcore protesters have though and early indication is they won't back down yet.

I'm sure a large number of sunday peaceful marchers will be satisfied with it though (although a swath of the public feel there should also be an independent investigation into the behaviour of the police over the past 3 months but that's not going to happen).

Not quite sure why Carrie Lam did this now and not before. Obviously its because she felt the jerk on her puppet string but its less clear why Beijing did it.
Hope so. A few hardcore protesters without the numbers of the more peaceful protesters won't last long.

Bit disturbing that Lam can't even step down. She really is just a puppet.
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by wamberal99 »

Maybe the goons in Beijing realise that there is no upside for them in the protests continuing. I suspect they assumed that things would quieten down once the summer holiday season ended.

I agree that the population at large would probably be fairly happy that the extradition nonsense has been shelved, and now it will be back to business as usual. Making money.
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by massive_field_goal »

I'd say business leaders (ie elite) started to really worry about economic fallout. The fact Lam was having secret meetings with a group of them before acquiescing says it all.
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by wamberal99 »

Hong Hong is run by the elites, always has been. It is certainly not under the rule of a Westminster system of parliament.


Lam does what she is told. Either by Beijing, or by the local HK fellow travellers. They miscalculated a bit, they assumed that things would fizzle out when school went back. They decided to eat humble pie. Or rice.
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by village »

Trouble is the humble pie price might have gone up. What the public would have accepted in June (Bill withdrawal) may not be enough after 3 months of police acting like thugs. The rumour that they beat a man to death last Saturday in Prince Edward MTR & covered it up is still all over social media here. It may well be bollocks but people are ready to believe anything of HK cops these days. Hence the demand for a public inquiry, but I don't expect they'll get it.
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by wamberal99 »

If the population loses faith in the integrity of the police force, that would be absolutely terrible. That is what happens in a dictatorship.



If the "government" of Hong Kong does not do something drastic to fix the situation, they will stand condemned.


And it will be the end for Hong Kong.
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by Floppykid »

village wrote:Trouble is the humble pie price might have gone up. What the public would have accepted in June (Bill withdrawal) may not be enough after 3 months of police acting like thugs. The rumour that they beat a man to death last Saturday in Prince Edward MTR & covered it up is still all over social media here. It may well be bollocks but people are ready to believe anything of HK cops these days. Hence the demand for a public inquiry, but I don't expect they'll get it.
Are the HK cops not Hkers?
Are they brought in or does the power turn them into loyal CCP men?
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by village »

They are HKers and I know some have been shunned by friends and family and come under pressure outside of work. They are in a tough spot and I'm sure some of the over-reaction and aggression stems from the prolonged period of intense front line conditions they have been dealing with. I'm also sure they are under pressure from CCP making it clear to their bosses what is expected.

There are also rumours and suspicion that the police have been 'beefed up' with mainland cops or PLA dressed in HK gear. Probably its hysteria but that's rife.

There was another big protest in Mong Kok last night. People are pretty convinced at least 1 person was beaten to death inside Prince Edward MTR last saturday and the govt is covering it up. The trust in authority has gone completely thanks to incidents like Yuen Long and the police refusal to acknowledge their wrongs such as the girl losing an eye. Today the public transport system is already shutting down to try and head off a protest at the airport. What a way to run a city.
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village
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by village »

Pretty scummy behaviour from the boys in blue.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nesty-says
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ts-amnesty
Hong Kong Police ‘Tortured’ and Beat Protesters, Amnesty Says
The new report alleges litany of abuses during recent unrest
Details of beatings could fuel more pro-democracy protestsBy Iain Marlow
(Bloomberg) -- Hong Kong police beat pro-democracy protesters in custody and committed acts that amount to “torture” during recent demonstrations, Amnesty International alleged in a new report that could fuel further unrest.
Police used “unnecessary and excessive force” in making arrests, beat a protester for declining to answer a question and then pinned him to the floor, shined laser pens in the eyes of people who had been detained, and threatened to electrocute a man’s genitals after he refused to unlock his phone, the human rights group said.

Amnesty said it released its findings after an investigation that included interviews with 21 arrested protesters, corroborating interviews with health care workers who treated demonstrators, and lawyers representing people who had been detained. Out of 21 protesters interviewed, 18 were hospitalized for injuries or illnesses related to their arrest and detention, the group said, adding that it also reviewed medical records.

The Hong Kong Police said it would not comment on individual cases. In a statement released to Bloomberg News, it said police officers would give warning of their intention to use force when circumstances allowed. Officers are required to use a “high level of restraint at all times,” it said.
The rights group said it shared its findings with the Hong Kong Commissioner of Police on Sept. 18, but had not yet received a response. Contacted on Thursday, police didn’t have an immediate comment.

The group, which also shared its research with several members of the city’s Legislative Council, said it was publicizing its findings anyway given the “gravity of the abuses,” escalating violence on both sides and the possibility the “situation could deteriorate further in the coming weeks” ahead of protests planned to coincide with the Oct. 1 anniversary of 70 years of Communist rule in China.

Police have previously defended their tactics as necessary against radical protesters who have thrown bricks and petrol bombs at riot police over the course of often-violent demonstrations that have included the vandalizing of subway stops and the setting ablaze of street barricades.
Chief Executive Carrie Lam this week defended her government and police from allegations of improper behavior, saying the administration condemns all violence and all judicial proceedings were conducted in an “impartial manner.”

Further protests are expected this weekend, including another so-called “stress test” of the international airport’s transportation network.

“The evidence leaves little room for doubt – in an apparent thirst for retaliation, Hong Kong’s security forces have engaged in a disturbing pattern of reckless and unlawful tactics against people during the protests,” Nicholas Bequelin, its East Asia director, said in a statement. “This has included arbitrary arrests and retaliatory violence against arrested persons in custody, some of which has amounted to torture.”

The Amnesty report also alleges that:

In several cases, protesters were “severely beaten in custody and suffered other ill-treatment amounting to torture.” Many required hospitalization.
Some violence appears to have been “meted out as ‘punishment’ for talking back or appearing uncooperative.” Some arrested demonstrators were zip-tied and had their gas masks removed, and forced to sit in areas where tear gas was repeatedly being fired. One person was taken to a separate room by officers after refusing to answer a question, beaten, and then held to the ground by an officer’s knee. He was later hospitalized with a bone fracture and internal bleeding. Several detained protesters had laser pointers shined directly into their eyes -- after people shined laser pens at officers during protests. Officers hit demonstrators with batons or fists while making arrests, “even when they were not resisting” or were already restrained. One was hospitalized with a fractured rib.
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wamberal99
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by wamberal99 »

Allegations of pretty scummy behaviour, it has to be said.
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Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Post by Sensible Stephen »

So the cops shot a guy yesterday. :shock:
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