Working From Home - A Review

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Raggs
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by Raggs »

Worked from home before anyway. So it's mostly been a cons period for me, since it's included home schooling, and I'm not a great teacher. Less walking to and from school as well.

My workday was blurry before, but that's part of the deal as such, that I'm available around more of the clock, but at the same time, can easily just take a break from working at almost any time (I like to be clear in the mornings to catch up with all the overnight stuff).
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sewa
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by sewa »

camroc1 wrote:From a company point of view, WFH after covid will be interesting as they will still be responsible for ensuring that H&S, Factory Acts, General Workers legislation is not only adhered to,but seen to be adhered to, and recorded as such. And that, not only will be difficult to achieve, but if achieved, will negate the reasons many people choose to WFH in the first place. You then have to overcome insurance implications, who pays for the home office, does the company legally rent space from you etc.etc. That's a legal/HR minefield.

Before covid allowing people to work from home was done strictly on a grace and favour basis, where people requested the privilege, and if granted signed away a lot of their rights. It also allowed management to refuse the privilege if they didn't think it suited particular employees.

I don't think WFH will become much more commonplace than it was. I suspect a few more will work 2 days from home, or perhaps a week here and there, but it will still be on a grace and favour basis, with no employee having the right to do so.
It depends on the type of work. There are people who need to access specialist lab equipment for example who have to go in. For those of us like myself who do the documentation / meetings side of things I doubt we will go back this year if at all. I could literally do my job from anywhere on the planet with WIFI
bimboman
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by bimboman »

It depends on the type of work. There are people who need to access specialist lab equipment for example who have to go in

People who jobs involve working in a specialised Laboratory can’t work from home ?


Wow.
iarmhiman
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by iarmhiman »

We were asked to fill out a survey where our company wanted to know our preferences.

It looks like there will be those customer facing departments which will have to be back in the office.

For those of us in network engineering, we can do our jobs remotely with only occasional trips to the datacentres.

I chose to work remotely with maybe 1 or two trips to the office per week. Others will want to be in the office more regularly.

All companies will move to hotdesking. You won't own your desk anymore.

I agree with Bimbo and not with Cammy. This is here to stay.
bimboman
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by bimboman »

iarmhiman wrote:We were asked to fill out a survey where our company wanted to know our preferences.

It looks like there will be those customer facing departments which will have to be back in the office.

For those of us in network engineering, we can do our jobs remotely with only occasional trips to the datacentres.

I chose to work remotely with maybe 1 or two trips to the office per week. Others will want to be in the office more regularly.

All companies will move to hotdesking. You won't own your desk anymore.

I agree with Bimbo and not with Cammy. This is here to stay.

The only thing here is they’ve currently “outlawed” hot desking as extra risky. Can you imagine the 20% pay cuts being offered to commuters for example.
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Saint
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by Saint »

bimboman wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:We were asked to fill out a survey where our company wanted to know our preferences.

It looks like there will be those customer facing departments which will have to be back in the office.

For those of us in network engineering, we can do our jobs remotely with only occasional trips to the datacentres.

I chose to work remotely with maybe 1 or two trips to the office per week. Others will want to be in the office more regularly.

All companies will move to hotdesking. You won't own your desk anymore.

I agree with Bimbo and not with Cammy. This is here to stay.

The only thing here is they’ve currently “outlawed” hot desking as extra risky. Can you imagine the 20% pay cuts being offered to commuters for example.
Depends what you mean by "hot desking". if you mean, rock up in the morning, grab a desk at random, use a PC and phone that are already at the desk, then leave at lunch and get replaced by someone else in the afternoon then yeah, that's gone, probably permanently.

But we're seeing a much more formalised process with less shared equipment. Booking the desk out in advance; bring your own laptop, headset, etc. Desks booked out for the whole day. Cleaners performing more in depth cleaning each day.

These types of practises already existed in some larger Enterprises, and the software platforms to support this have existed for some time from vendors like Condeco, Space Connect etc. - and are now beginning to extend into mid market and lower, where they already has similar stuff for meeting room booking anyway.
mdaclarke
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by mdaclarke »

I hate it.

I only live 15 mins walk/2 min drive from office.

Access to Work internet is so much slower so can;t get as much done.

Too many distractions at home.

No separation between office and home.

A lot of people at work are going on about how great it is but they all live 30 40 or 50 miles from the office so they are saving themselves a big commute.
iarmhiman
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by iarmhiman »

bimboman wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:We were asked to fill out a survey where our company wanted to know our preferences.

It looks like there will be those customer facing departments which will have to be back in the office.

For those of us in network engineering, we can do our jobs remotely with only occasional trips to the datacentres.

I chose to work remotely with maybe 1 or two trips to the office per week. Others will want to be in the office more regularly.

All companies will move to hotdesking. You won't own your desk anymore.

I agree with Bimbo and not with Cammy. This is here to stay.

The only thing here is they’ve currently “outlawed” hot desking as extra risky. Can you imagine the 20% pay cuts being offered to commuters for example.
Pay cuts will definitely happen for those who choose to say move to the other end of the country , the countryside etc and log on remotely. There needs to be an incentive to keep people close to work, otherwise you'll have people moving to Spain, Italy, Greece and working for their employer in the UK and Ireland remotely.
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Saint
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by Saint »

iarmhiman wrote:
bimboman wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:We were asked to fill out a survey where our company wanted to know our preferences.

It looks like there will be those customer facing departments which will have to be back in the office.

For those of us in network engineering, we can do our jobs remotely with only occasional trips to the datacentres.

I chose to work remotely with maybe 1 or two trips to the office per week. Others will want to be in the office more regularly.

All companies will move to hotdesking. You won't own your desk anymore.

I agree with Bimbo and not with Cammy. This is here to stay.

The only thing here is they’ve currently “outlawed” hot desking as extra risky. Can you imagine the 20% pay cuts being offered to commuters for example.
Pay cuts will definitely happen for those who choose to say move to the other end of the country , the countryside etc and log on remotely. There needs to be an incentive to keep people close to work, otherwise you'll have people moving to Spain, Italy, Greece and working for their employer in the UK and Ireland remotely.
Would that be a bad thing? For many people work is simply a thing you do, not a place you go (I know it's a cliche, but it's increasingly true)
iarmhiman
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by iarmhiman »

Saint wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:
bimboman wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:We were asked to fill out a survey where our company wanted to know our preferences.

It looks like there will be those customer facing departments which will have to be back in the office.

For those of us in network engineering, we can do our jobs remotely with only occasional trips to the datacentres.

I chose to work remotely with maybe 1 or two trips to the office per week. Others will want to be in the office more regularly.

All companies will move to hotdesking. You won't own your desk anymore.

I agree with Bimbo and not with Cammy. This is here to stay.

The only thing here is they’ve currently “outlawed” hot desking as extra risky. Can you imagine the 20% pay cuts being offered to commuters for example.
Pay cuts will definitely happen for those who choose to say move to the other end of the country , the countryside etc and log on remotely. There needs to be an incentive to keep people close to work, otherwise you'll have people moving to Spain, Italy, Greece and working for their employer in the UK and Ireland remotely.
Would that be a bad thing? For many people work is simply a thing you do, not a place you go (I know it's a cliche, but it's increasingly true)
If I was to move back to my home town, a paycut wouldn't make much difference as houses are cheaper, food is cheaper, beer is cheaper so no it wouldn't be a bad thing at all.
bimboman
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by bimboman »

Saint wrote:
bimboman wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:We were asked to fill out a survey where our company wanted to know our preferences.

It looks like there will be those customer facing departments which will have to be back in the office.

For those of us in network engineering, we can do our jobs remotely with only occasional trips to the datacentres.

I chose to work remotely with maybe 1 or two trips to the office per week. Others will want to be in the office more regularly.

All companies will move to hotdesking. You won't own your desk anymore.

I agree with Bimbo and not with Cammy. This is here to stay.

The only thing here is they’ve currently “outlawed” hot desking as extra risky. Can you imagine the 20% pay cuts being offered to commuters for example.
Depends what you mean by "hot desking". if you mean, rock up in the morning, grab a desk at random, use a PC and phone that are already at the desk, then leave at lunch and get replaced by someone else in the afternoon then yeah, that's gone, probably permanently.

But we're seeing a much more formalised process with less shared equipment. Booking the desk out in advance; bring your own laptop, headset, etc. Desks booked out for the whole day. Cleaners performing more in depth cleaning each day.

These types of practises already existed in some larger Enterprises, and the software platforms to support this have existed for some time from vendors like Condeco, Space Connect etc. - and are now beginning to extend into mid market and lower, where they already has similar stuff for meeting room booking anyway.

I mean just hot desks. London councils (and City of London) have been very strong on saying no sharing of desks between “deep cleans “ what ever that means. Again the biggest issue seems to be loo space from one day to the next.

A mates business as an example is taking 20% of staff in per day, shutting early and then having a “deep clean” every evening. They wagered the difference between cleaners and deep clean wasn’t important.
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Saint
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by Saint »

bimboman wrote:
Saint wrote:
bimboman wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:We were asked to fill out a survey where our company wanted to know our preferences.

It looks like there will be those customer facing departments which will have to be back in the office.

For those of us in network engineering, we can do our jobs remotely with only occasional trips to the datacentres.

I chose to work remotely with maybe 1 or two trips to the office per week. Others will want to be in the office more regularly.

All companies will move to hotdesking. You won't own your desk anymore.

I agree with Bimbo and not with Cammy. This is here to stay.

The only thing here is they’ve currently “outlawed” hot desking as extra risky. Can you imagine the 20% pay cuts being offered to commuters for example.
Depends what you mean by "hot desking". if you mean, rock up in the morning, grab a desk at random, use a PC and phone that are already at the desk, then leave at lunch and get replaced by someone else in the afternoon then yeah, that's gone, probably permanently.

But we're seeing a much more formalised process with less shared equipment. Booking the desk out in advance; bring your own laptop, headset, etc. Desks booked out for the whole day. Cleaners performing more in depth cleaning each day.

These types of practises already existed in some larger Enterprises, and the software platforms to support this have existed for some time from vendors like Condeco, Space Connect etc. - and are now beginning to extend into mid market and lower, where they already has similar stuff for meeting room booking anyway.

I mean just hot desks. London councils (and City of London) have been very strong on saying no sharing of desks between “deep cleans “ what ever that means. Again the biggest issue seems to be loo space from one day to the next.

A mates business as an example is taking 20% of staff in per day, shutting early and then having a “deep clean” every evening. They wagered the difference between cleaners and deep clean wasn’t important.
Banning sharing of desks long term won't be sustainable - in fact it's going to be the long term answer. In the short term, I can see the point if you don't have the systems in place to do otherwise. But for most offices, I doubt you'll see a major effort to re-open them till September anyway - we certainly aren't seeing most of our customer in any rush to reopen office locations, which is just as well as we're sending engineers in to fit them out with lots of new VC and digital signage right now
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hermie
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by hermie »

I absolutely hate it. Would have walked to the office so wouldn't have had a commute. Miss the social interaction obviously with colleagues, mates in the coffee shop, meeting people for lunch etc. But also the work is harder. More distractions at home. If you need to give help or look for it it's far more difficult over instant message or email. Of course having a screaming two year old doesn't help. We split up the day an hour on, hour off so that neither is away from the emails for too long but it makes it very difficult to properly get the head down and do some proper work. Unfortunately everybody else seems to love it and this might just be the way things are now indefinitely. I think a lot of those saying they work better are lying because it suits them. Certainly one or two have taken to it very well but the majority on my team would be less productive anyway.

Nice having more time with the young fella though.
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jdogscoop
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by jdogscoop »

Pros

- No 30 minute commute
- Extra sleep in (see above)
- Chore management
- Don't get sick of the sight of the office
- 4pm Friday booze cart
- Getting to know neighbourhood better

Cons

- Talking to team and others I like
- Miss the Melbourne city architecture
- Harder to maintain weight
- Double monitor desk set up better in office

In summary, I'm not crying. Sounds like we will be going back to a 5 day in 5 day out fortnight when the Victorian cases finally settle to zero or next to it.
Last edited by jdogscoop on Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
de_Selby
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by de_Selby »

hermie wrote:I absolutely hate it. Would have walked to the office so wouldn't have had a commute. Miss the social interaction obviously with colleagues, mates in the coffee shop, meeting people for lunch etc. But also the work is harder. More distractions at home. If you need to give help or look for it it's far more difficult over instant message or email. Of course having a screaming two year old doesn't help. We split up the day an hour on, hour off so that neither is away from the emails for too long but it makes it very difficult to properly get the head down and do some proper work. Unfortunately everybody else seems to love it and this might just be the way things are now indefinitely. I think a lot of those saying they work better are lying because it suits them. Certainly one or two have taken to it very well but the majority on my team would be less productive anyway.

Nice having more time with the young fella though.
Jesus that's insane. It takes time and energy to switch context, switching every hour would be exhausting.

I've been WFH already, so the only difference is we can't send our 1 year old to the childminder every day. My wife is a teacher though so that balances out.
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pjm1
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by pjm1 »

Quite liking it.

Pros:
- I can do it, lucky to have a job that allows it
- Team mostly enjoy it, apart from one I've allowed back into the office
- No longer spend £300+ in petrol a month commuting
- No longer spend £250+ a month in train tickets between offices (expensed, but still an unnecessary expense)
- Home office is well equipped and 10s from the bedroom
- Don't need to wear suit & shirt
- Zoom etc. meetings work well and are easy
- Mrs is furloughed so can homeschool our two
- Can be more flexible with the working day, incorporating some home baking as well as shopping trips, DIY etc. at lunchtimes
- Get to see more of the kids and wife
- Can actually get more work done in many cases

Cons:
- Slightly less banter within the work environment but it's coming back
- Economy is shafted for next 1-2 years, at least... that is going to hit the pocket eventually
- Might have to make a few people redundant
- At some point I'll be under a bit of pressure to visit the office once lockdown is over
- Days can blur a bit
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Floppykid
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by Floppykid »

Fully with Hermie, it's awful.
Being in office allows for a level of focus and a clear separation between work and home.
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Jim Lahey
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by Jim Lahey »

de_Selby wrote:
hermie wrote:I absolutely hate it. Would have walked to the office so wouldn't have had a commute. Miss the social interaction obviously with colleagues, mates in the coffee shop, meeting people for lunch etc. But also the work is harder. More distractions at home. If you need to give help or look for it it's far more difficult over instant message or email. Of course having a screaming two year old doesn't help. We split up the day an hour on, hour off so that neither is away from the emails for too long but it makes it very difficult to properly get the head down and do some proper work. Unfortunately everybody else seems to love it and this might just be the way things are now indefinitely. I think a lot of those saying they work better are lying because it suits them. Certainly one or two have taken to it very well but the majority on my team would be less productive anyway.

Nice having more time with the young fella though.
Jesus that's insane. It takes time and energy to switch context, switching every hour would be exhausting.

I've been WFH already, so the only difference is we can't send our 1 year old to the childminder every day. My wife is a teacher though so that balances out.
My missus is on mat leave but because I’m home the lines will get massively blurred between when I can and cannot help out. Can lead to a few arguments but its best to just try and be as flexible as possible. If I need to spend an hour or two with the kids throughout the day I just catch up once they and the missus head to bed. Ultimately I spend roughly the same time in family mode and work mode as I did previously, its just not one big batch as it was before.
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Leinsterman
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by Leinsterman »

iarmhiman wrote: If I was to move back to my home town, a paycut wouldn't make much difference as houses are cheaper, food is cheaper, beer is cheaper so no it wouldn't be a bad thing at all.
Living in Mullingar wouldn't be a bad thing? :shock:

sewa wrote:For those of us like myself who do the documentation / meetings side of things I doubt we will go back this year if at all. I could literally do my job from anywhere on the planet with WIFI
You've been in Holland the last while, haven't you? I guess this means you could move back to Ireland and work at home and be near the family? Sounds like an ideal situation for you?

hermie wrote:Of course having a screaming two year old doesn't help.
Creche reopening will solve that problem for you, won't it?
de_Selby
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by de_Selby »

Floppykid wrote:Fully with Hermie, it's awful.
Being in office allows for a level of focus and a clear separation between work and home.
I have a home office room so that's where work is done. I leave it at 6 and that's work done, I can jump back in if I get a slack message about a problem.
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Lemoentjie
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by Lemoentjie »

I WFH most of the time anyway, but:

Pros:
Never have to drive to J'burg
Wife is also at home
Managed to soundproof my office quite well by putting some cloth under the door
Never have to interact face to face with HR/admin types

Cons:
Never get to interact face to face with HR/admin types
backrow
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by backrow »

Lenny wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:Saved a fortune by eating lunch at home instead of heading out to the High Street each day and spend £5+ on a sandwich/burger/pizza slice/pint. :thumbup:
Is a pint or two at lunchtime still a thing in the UK? I remember being shocked 35 years ago when over for a 5ns game at the amount of drinking being done by office types. God knows I did more than my share of boozing at that time, and for a number of years subsequently, but returning from lunch smelling of booze wouldn’t have been tolerated. The only exception would have been made for office outings, and even then it might have been a g&t or a couple of glasses of wine.
Jayz
When i first worked in Canary Wharf, there were very little to do round there apart from pubs - i would have 2-3 pints every lunchtime mon-thurs and about 5-6 on Fridays when we would invariably be out for 2 hours if it wasn’t a month or quarter end.
Thurs nights were pretty mental, would be in Henry addingtons by 6pm and Brodie’s by midnight , and then gods knows where after that. Did a fair few ‘not worth going back home now as I have to be at my desk in 2 hours ‘ on Thursday night / Friday mornings.

Luckily I still did sport and gym in evenings to burn all that off and it was rare when I went out every single day , but it sure did feel like it.
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Woddy
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by Woddy »

Overall I'm loving it, some weighty cons though:

Pros

1. Have my kids for full week at a time now I'm at home, rather than just every other weekend (am divorced, living with new missus and her kids). Been revolutionary for my relationship with them.
2. No commute - 1.5/2 hours each way and £450 a month train fares
3. No pressure for lunchtime/after-work schmoozing with clients - good for health, home relationships and wallet (inevitably some of it does not get expensed)
4. More time for running, cycling - though my regimented approach appears to be tailing off

Cons

1. Missing social side - office banter, seeing mates on commute
2. More distracted at work - bit of home schooling, not "on show" at home rather than in office (so more time wasted on PR, for example), and recent good weather means brain is half outside, easy to do chores / chauffering of teenagers etc
3. Not good for juniors in office, who learn from hearing / seeing what's around them
4. Harder to find new work, either internally from change conversations or seeing clients physically.
5. Even less work/home division than before, though in the last week or so I've started refusing to look at the phone after say 8pm unless I'm expecting something.
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hermie
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by hermie »

Leinsterman wrote: Creche reopening will solve that problem for you, won't it?
Creche is opening in 10 days time but they usually close the month of August so they are only offering part time hours/days until September. We're away for a chunk of July and will most likely have to quarantine after so we might not send him back until then. :(
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camroc1
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by camroc1 »

iarmhiman wrote:
bimboman wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:We were asked to fill out a survey where our company wanted to know our preferences.

It looks like there will be those customer facing departments which will have to be back in the office.

For those of us in network engineering, we can do our jobs remotely with only occasional trips to the datacentres.

I chose to work remotely with maybe 1 or two trips to the office per week. Others will want to be in the office more regularly.

All companies will move to hotdesking. You won't own your desk anymore.

I agree with Bimbo and not with Cammy. This is here to stay.

The only thing here is they’ve currently “outlawed” hot desking as extra risky. Can you imagine the 20% pay cuts being offered to commuters for example.
Pay cuts will definitely happen for those who choose to say move to the other end of the country , the countryside etc and log on remotely. There needs to be an incentive to keep people close to work, otherwise you'll have people moving to Spain, Italy, Greece and working for their employer in the UK and Ireland remotely.
That'll have tax implications for them.
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Sandstorm
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by Sandstorm »

mdaclarke wrote: Access to Work internet is so much slower so can;t get as much done.
Your Firm needs to upgrade. We were lucky to put everything into The Cloud last November (O365, plus hosted Helpdesk, HR and Accounts apps). The server room at the office is now a storage room.

Can work anywhere now at high speed. :thumbup:
bimboman
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by bimboman »

camroc1 wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:
bimboman wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:We were asked to fill out a survey where our company wanted to know our preferences.

It looks like there will be those customer facing departments which will have to be back in the office.

For those of us in network engineering, we can do our jobs remotely with only occasional trips to the datacentres.

I chose to work remotely with maybe 1 or two trips to the office per week. Others will want to be in the office more regularly.

All companies will move to hotdesking. You won't own your desk anymore.

I agree with Bimbo and not with Cammy. This is here to stay.

The only thing here is they’ve currently “outlawed” hot desking as extra risky. Can you imagine the 20% pay cuts being offered to commuters for example.
Pay cuts will definitely happen for those who choose to say move to the other end of the country , the countryside etc and log on remotely. There needs to be an incentive to keep people close to work, otherwise you'll have people moving to Spain, Italy, Greece and working for their employer in the UK and Ireland remotely.
That'll have tax implications for them.

Probably good ones.
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Raggs
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by Raggs »

Why should people get less money for living further away?
backrow
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by backrow »

Raggs wrote:Why should people get less money for living further away?
Because the whole argument of ‘i Need London weighting ‘ which is used in negotiation has gone ?
Because the economy has lost a fifth of its size and companies need to tighten their belts a bit?
Because lots of people have lost their job and will have to be flexable on their wage demands ?
bimboman
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by bimboman »

Raggs wrote:Why should people get less money for living further away?

By basic economics they should get more (office space costs saved). However the convenience factor and costs of travelling saves would become “shared” ie kept by the employer.
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Raggs
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by Raggs »

If no one has to live in London then London weighting is lost by everyone.
bimboman
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by bimboman »

Raggs wrote:If no one has to live in London then London weighting is lost by everyone.

Eventually yes.
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Sandstorm
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by Sandstorm »

Raggs wrote:If no one has to live in London then London weighting is lost by everyone.
Fcuk off. The countryside is full!
backrow
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by backrow »

Raggs wrote:If no one has to live in London then London weighting is lost by everyone.
I doubt there will be a huge number of people leaving London tbh, a lot of London’s woes will ease if you can wfh
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Raggs
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Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:49 am

Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by Raggs »

backrow wrote:
Raggs wrote:If no one has to live in London then London weighting is lost by everyone.
I doubt there will be a huge number of people leaving London tbh, a lot of London’s woes will ease if you can wfh
Me neither, people enjoy living in a city. I just don't see why if two people are working from home, one should get less for living further away ( and what exactly are they further from??).
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Sandstorm
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
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Re: Working From Home - A Review

Post by Sandstorm »

Raggs wrote:
backrow wrote:
Raggs wrote:If no one has to live in London then London weighting is lost by everyone.
I doubt there will be a huge number of people leaving London tbh, a lot of London’s woes will ease if you can wfh
Me neither, people enjoy living in a city. I just don't see why if two people are working from home, one should get less for living further away ( and what exactly are they further from??).
They shouldn’t and won’t. If a firm wants to save money on WFH policy then rent smaller premises. Don’t try to cut staff salaries. :thumbdown:
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